Old boats

Listmates: I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return great pleasure for years. Thinking about that reminded me of a guy we encountered on one of the schooner's summer voyages around the Great Lakes a couple years ago. It's how she earns her keep, serving as a dockside historic tourist attraction. At any rate, in one port we encountered this guy in his Coronado 25, single-handing his way through his vacation. (My summer job in college was at a sailboat sales/rental/school operation, and we had a new Coronado 25 we were selling ca. 1967 or 1968. The company later became Catalina. This was an old boat by 2008.) The owner, a Chrysler assembly line worker from the Detroit area, was having a great time sailing his old boat northward in Lake Huron. We ran into him a few days after the first meeting. He was still having fun. He was an immigrant from one of the old USSR countries. Maybe that's why he had fixed up his old boat and set sail for a couple weeks. He enjoyed the freedom of being able to do so. It just stumps me that more people don't do this. There's an image that yachting is an elite, costly undertaking but that's only true if you have fondness for one of those 50 foot "daysailers" that seem to be all the rage in the yachting magazines these days. (Please note that the latest /Sailing/ magazine contains Bob Perry's review of a Beneteau 25, a little cruiser of a kind that had disappeared). And the Cal 25 is a more substantial vessel than that Coronado 25. Here's a chance for somebody to have a lot of fun for a lot of summers. Why isn't a line forming?.... Chris Campbell

Chris....if the vessel is free, then someone would probably take it. The estimated repair costs as Charlie pointed out are between 2000 at the low end to 5000 at the high end. In this market, you can get a lot of boat for 5K if you shop around carefully. I recently found a Cherubini Hunter 30 good to go minus some cosmetics, read its been sitting for a year, but with newer rigging, standing and running, a diesel that works, and an inventory of sails good for cruising, including a storm jib and reasonable basic electronics that work. Cost 2.5KUS. This model of hunter is actually a good old boat. The market is flat and taking on such a vessel is a labour of love. This an exercise in passion is for those who know and appreciate the 25 which in terms of demographics eliminates a new sailor unless he or she is under the care of a proper steward and tutor. You cannot farm this work out, you need to do it yourself to keep the costs reasonable again eliminating the new sailor or sailing couple. Or at least reducing the odds....:) I know your frustration and understand it. I have Cal 20 that I got for nothing wanting to salvage her from the wreckers, cost me 500 dollars in gas and expenses to get her home, now I dont have to pay for storage.That was 4 years ago. Imagine the storage fees alone. She is nice protected area. The estimate to get her done my cost that is, is around 3K in parts and materials if I do the work myself. Is it worth it...:? /ch On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > Listmates: > > I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was > donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't > standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money > and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these > days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return > great pleasure for years. >

Its kind of sad, because as these old boats fade away, there really isn't a whole lot of boats lining up to replace them. Yes, the Hunter may be more boat for the money, but there is something to be said about the good, simple boat. George Macon(586) 610-0093 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:07:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Chris....if the vessel is free, then someone would probably take it. The estimated repair costs as Charlie pointed out are between 2000 at the low end to 5000 at the high end. In this market, you can get a lot of boat for 5K if you shop around carefully. I recently found a Cherubini Hunter 30 good to go minus some cosmetics, read its been sitting for a year, but with newer rigging, standing and running, a diesel that works, and an inventory of sails good for cruising, including a storm jib and reasonable basic electronics that work. Cost 2.5KUS. This model of hunter is actually a good old boat. The market is flat and taking on such a vessel is a labour of love. This an exercise in passion is for those who know and appreciate the 25 which in terms of demographics eliminates a new sailor unless he or she is under the care of a proper steward and tutor. You cannot farm this work out, you need to do it yourself to keep the costs reasonable again eliminating the new sailor or sailing couple. Or at least reducing the odds....:) I know your frustration and understand it. I have Cal 20 that I got for nothing wanting to salvage her from the wreckers, cost me 500 dollars in gas and expenses to get her home, now I dont have to pay for storage.That was 4 years ago. Imagine the storage fees alone. She is nice protected area. The estimate to get her done my cost that is, is around 3K in parts and materials if I do the work myself. Is it worth it...:? /ch On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: Listmates: I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return great pleasure for years.

Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity ----- Original Message ----- From: george macon To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Its kind of sad, because as these old boats fade away, there really isn't a whole lot of boats lining up to replace them. Yes, the Hunter may be more boat for the money, but there is something to be said about the good, simple boat. George Macon (586) 610-0093 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:07:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Chris....if the vessel is free, then someone would probably take it. The estimated repair costs as Charlie pointed out are between 2000 at the low end to 5000 at the high end. In this market, you can get a lot of boat for 5K if you shop around carefully. I recently found a Cherubini Hunter 30 good to go minus some cosmetics, read its been sitting for a year, but with newer rigging, standing and running, a diesel that works, and an inventory of sails good for cruising, including a storm jib and reasonable basic electronics that work. Cost 2.5KUS. This model of hunter is actually a good old boat. The market is flat and taking on such a vessel is a labour of love. This an exercise in passion is for those who know and appreciate the 25 which in terms of demographics eliminates a new sailor unless he or she is under the care of a proper steward and tutor. You cannot farm this work out, you need to do it yourself to keep the costs reasonable again eliminating the new sailor or sailing couple. Or at least reducing the odds....:) I know your frustration and understand it. I have Cal 20 that I got for nothing wanting to salvage her from the wreckers, cost me 500 dollars in gas and expenses to get her home, now I dont have to pay for storage.That was 4 years ago. Imagine the storage fees alone. She is nice protected area. The estimate to get her done my cost that is, is around 3K in parts and materials if I do the work myself. Is it worth it...:? /ch On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: Listmates: I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return great pleasure for years. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

EXACTLY! George Macon(586) 610-0093 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ma… [at] cox.net Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 11:38:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity ----- Original Message ----- From: george macon To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Its kind of sad, because as these old boats fade away, there really isn't a whole lot of boats lining up to replace them. Yes, the Hunter may be more boat for the money, but there is something to be said about the good, simple boat. George Macon (586) 610-0093 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:07:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Chris....if the vessel is free, then someone would probably take it. The estimated repair costs as Charlie pointed out are between 2000 at the low end to 5000 at the high end. In this market, you can get a lot of boat for 5K if you shop around carefully. I recently found a Cherubini Hunter 30 good to go minus some cosmetics, read its been sitting for a year, but with newer rigging, standing and running, a diesel that works, and an inventory of sails good for cruising, including a storm jib and reasonable basic electronics that work. Cost 2.5KUS. This model of hunter is actually a good old boat. The market is flat and taking on such a vessel is a labour of love. This an exercise in passion is for those who know and appreciate the 25 which in terms of demographics eliminates a new sailor unless he or she is under the care of a proper steward and tutor. You cannot farm this work out, you need to do it yourself to keep the costs reasonable again eliminating the new sailor or sailing couple. Or at least reducing the odds....:) I know your frustration and understand it. I have Cal 20 that I got for nothing wanting to salvage her from the wreckers, cost me 500 dollars in gas and expenses to get her home, now I dont have to pay for storage.That was 4 years ago. Imagine the storage fees alone. She is nice protected area. The estimate to get her done my cost that is, is around 3K in parts and materials if I do the work myself. Is it worth it...:? /ch On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: Listmates: I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return great pleasure for years. Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Regarding cored hulls... Don't all the new boats advertise that they are solid laminate below the water line? Aren't the decks of our Cals cored, and one of the most common boats to have a core failure a Cal 25. The support beam of my Cal 24 has a tear in the fiberglass below the mast that is steadily been getting worse since the first time I took it sailing after I splashed her. I was sailing in gusty >15 knot winds inside Channel Islands Marina and I remember being disappointed at her lack of stability (found out later that most keel boats are not so, or, even less stable in that kind of wind than my boat---yeech!). After finding the crack I also found that the know it all P.O. had tuned the shrouds tight as piano strings(yikes!!), and so I backed off the tension so the leewards sag when going upwind. The cracking has been getting worse altho I haven't noticed much greater sag in the beam or deck below the mast, but I know I'll have to do something about it, or sell the boat and let the next owner worry about it. The interiour looks sooooo pretty with the clear polyester glass finish against the wood, like varnish, I hate to mess with it, and the head clearance below the beam is already minimal. I've been thinking of somehow sistering it(possibly with a 1/8"aluminum plate, or aluminum angle?), altho the forward side of the beam mates with another 3"X3" that goes forward towards the front of the dog house roof. The other idea is to cut away the fractured fiberglass and build up several layers of glass cloth and epoxy below it. I'm not sure what to do. The beam still seeeeems sound, as does the plywood below it...I think... There is some dark discoloration I can see thru the clear fiberglass, but maybe it is just mildew on the surface...I hope...and not evidence of a rotted out overhead. It's been that way for some time. Jerry, Cal 24 #71 Shpritz, a kit boat. From: george macon <ge… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Old boats EXACTLY! George Macon (586) 610-0093 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ma… [at] cox.net Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 11:38:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity >From: george macon >To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 9:46 AM >Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Old boats > > > > >Its kind of sad, because as these old boats fade away, there really isn't a whole lot of boats lining up to replace them. Yes, the Hunter may be more boat for the money, but there is something to be said about the good, simple boat. > > >George Macon >(586) 610-0093 > > > > >________________________________ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >From: ch… [at] gmail.com >Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:07:06 -0500 >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats > > >Chris....if the vessel is free, then someone would probably take it. The estimated repair costs as Charlie pointed out are between 2000 at the low end to 5000 at the high end. In this market, you can get a lot of boat for 5K if you shop around carefully. I recently found a Cherubini Hunter 30 good to go minus some cosmetics, read its been sitting for a year, but with newer rigging, standing and running, a diesel that works, and an inventory of sails good for cruising, including a storm jib and reasonable basic electronics that work. Cost 2.5KUS. This model of hunter is actually a good old boat. > >The market is flat and taking on such a vessel is a labour of love. This an exercise in passion is for those who know and appreciate the 25 which in terms of demographics eliminates a new sailor unless he or she is under the care of a proper steward and tutor. You cannot farm this work out, you need to do it yourself to keep the costs reasonable again eliminating the new sailor or sailing couple. Or at least reducing the odds....:) I know your frustration and understand it. I have Cal 20 that I got for nothing wanting to salvage her from the wreckers, cost me 500 dollars in gas and expenses to get her home, now I dont have to pay for storage.That was 4 years ago. Imagine the storage fees alone. She is nice protected area. The estimate to get her done my cost that is, is around 3K in parts and materials if I do the work myself. Is it worth it...:? > >/ch > > > > >On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > >> >>Listmates: >> >>I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return great pleasure for years. >> > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Gerry, I do not consider the deck of a Cal 25 "cored" Its simply a plywood headliner, that is removable with some effort. a CORED deck would require more precision removal of a laminate to access the plywood or balsa. This isn't so on the Cal. Do you have pic of your mast step? George Macon To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: so… [at] yahoo.com Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:57:25 -0800 Subject: Fixing mast support beam; Cored hulls? was.Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Regarding cored hulls... Don't all the new boats advertise that they are solid laminate below the water line? Aren't the decks of our Cals cored, and one of the most common boats to have a core failure a Cal 25. The support beam of my Cal 24 has a tear in the fiberglass below the mast that is steadily been getting worse since the first time I took it sailing after I splashed her. I was sailing in gusty >15 knot winds inside Channel Islands Marina and I remember being disappointed at her lack of stability (found out later that most keel boats are not so, or, even less stable in that kind of wind than my boat---yeech!). After finding the crack I also found that the know it all P.O. had tuned the shrouds tight as piano strings(yikes!!), and so I backed off the tension so the leewards sag when going upwind. The cracking has been getting worse altho I haven't noticed much greater sag in the beam or deck below the mast, but I know I'll have to do something about it, or sell the boat and let the next owner worry about it.The interiour looks sooooo pretty with the clear polyester glass finish against the wood, like varnish, I hate to mess with it, and the head clearance below the beam is already minimal. I've been thinking of somehow sistering it(possibly with a 1/8"aluminum plate, or aluminum angle?), altho the forward side of the beam mates with another 3"X3" that goes forward towards the front of the dog house roof. The other idea is to cut away the fractured fiberglass and build up several layers of glass cloth and epoxy below it. I'm not sure what to do. The beam still seeeeems sound, as does the plywood below it...I think... There is some dark discoloration I can see thru the clear fiberglass, but maybe it is just mildew on the surface...I hope...and not evidence of a rotted out overhead. It's been that way for some time.Jerry, Cal 24 #71 Shpritz, a kit boat. From: george macon <ge… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Old boats EXACTLY! George Macon(586) 610-0093 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ma… [at] cox.net Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 11:38:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity ----- Original Message ----- From: george macon To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Its kind of sad, because as these old boats fade away, there really isn't a whole lot of boats lining up to replace them. Yes, the Hunter may be more boat for the money, but there is something to be said about the good, simple boat. George Macon (586) 610-0093 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:07:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Chris....if the vessel is free, then someone would probably take it. The estimated repair costs as Charlie pointed out are between 2000 at the low end to 5000 at the high end. In this market, you can get a lot of boat for 5K if you shop around carefully. I recently found a Cherubini Hunter 30 good to go minus some cosmetics, read its been sitting for a year, but with newer rigging, standing and running, a diesel that works, and an inventory of sails good for cruising, including a storm jib and reasonable basic electronics that work. Cost 2.5KUS. This model of hunter is actually a good old boat. The market is flat and taking on such a vessel is a labour of love. This an exercise in passion is for those who know and appreciate the 25 which in terms of demographics eliminates a new sailor unless he or she is under the care of a proper steward and tutor. You cannot farm this work out, you need to do it yourself to keep the costs reasonable again eliminating the new sailor or sailing couple. Or at least reducing the odds....:) I know your frustration and understand it. I have Cal 20 that I got for nothing wanting to salvage her from the wreckers, cost me 500 dollars in gas and expenses to get her home, now I dont have to pay for storage.That was 4 years ago. Imagine the storage fees alone. She is nice protected area. The estimate to get her done my cost that is, is around 3K in parts and materials if I do the work myself. Is it worth it...:? /ch On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: Listmates: I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return great pleasure for years. Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

My post indicated cored hull and not deck. My boats have all had plywood decks. The boat in my opinion, is stronger with fiberglass over plywood above the water submerged surfaces. Its when you get fully submerged mainly below waterline, any minor leakage into the core can create a condition where when the hull flexes it forces or pumps the moisture into the core which erodes the core and sucks more moisture. This is not the case in cal boat decks. ----- Original Message ----- From: george macon To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 1:03 PM Subject: RE: Fixing mast support beam; Cored hulls? was.Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Gerry, I do not consider the deck of a Cal 25 "cored" Its simply a plywood headliner, that is removable with some effort. a CORED deck would require more precision removal of a laminate to access the plywood or balsa. This isn't so on the Cal. Do you have pic of your mast step? George Macon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: so… [at] yahoo.com Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:57:25 -0800 Subject: Fixing mast support beam; Cored hulls? was.Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Regarding cored hulls... Don't all the new boats advertise that they are solid laminate below the water line? Aren't the decks of our Cals cored, and one of the most common boats to have a core failure a Cal 25. The support beam of my Cal 24 has a tear in the fiberglass below the mast that is steadily been getting worse since the first time I took it sailing after I splashed her. I was sailing in gusty >15 knot winds inside Channel Islands Marina and I remember being disappointed at her lack of stability (found out later that most keel boats are not so, or, even less stable in that kind of wind than my boat---yeech!). After finding the crack I also found that the know it all P.O. had tuned the shrouds tight as piano strings(yikes!!), and so I backed off the tension so the leewards sag when going upwind. The cracking has been getting worse altho I haven't noticed much greater sag in the beam or deck below the mast, but I know I'll have to do something about it, or sell the boat and let the next owner worry about it. The interiour looks sooooo pretty with the clear polyester glass finish against the wood, like varnish, I hate to mess with it, and the head clearance below the beam is already minimal. I've been thinking of somehow sistering it(possibly with a 1/8"aluminum plate, or aluminum angle?), altho the forward side of the beam mates with another 3"X3" that goes forward towards the front of the dog house roof. The other idea is to cut away the fractured fiberglass and build up several layers of glass cloth and epoxy below it. I'm not sure what to do. The beam still seeeeems sound, as does the plywood below it...I think... There is some dark discoloration I can see thru the clear fiberglass, but maybe it is just mildew on the surface...I hope...and not evidence of a rotted out overhead. It's been that way for some time. Jerry, Cal 24 #71 Shpritz, a kit boat. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: george macon <ge… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Old boats EXACTLY! George Macon (586) 610-0093 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ma… [at] cox.net Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 11:38:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity ----- Original Message ----- From: george macon To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Its kind of sad, because as these old boats fade away, there really isn't a whole lot of boats lining up to replace them. Yes, the Hunter may be more boat for the money, but there is something to be said about the good, simple boat. George Macon (586) 610-0093 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ch… [at] gmail.com Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:07:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Chris....if the vessel is free, then someone would probably take it. The estimated repair costs as Charlie pointed out are between 2000 at the low end to 5000 at the high end. In this market, you can get a lot of boat for 5K if you shop around carefully. I recently found a Cherubini Hunter 30 good to go minus some cosmetics, read its been sitting for a year, but with newer rigging, standing and running, a diesel that works, and an inventory of sails good for cruising, including a storm jib and reasonable basic electronics that work. Cost 2.5KUS. This model of hunter is actually a good old boat. The market is flat and taking on such a vessel is a labour of love. This an exercise in passion is for those who know and appreciate the 25 which in terms of demographics eliminates a new sailor unless he or she is under the care of a proper steward and tutor. You cannot farm this work out, you need to do it yourself to keep the costs reasonable again eliminating the new sailor or sailing couple. Or at least reducing the odds....:) I know your frustration and understand it. I have Cal 20 that I got for nothing wanting to salvage her from the wreckers, cost me 500 dollars in gas and expenses to get her home, now I dont have to pay for storage.That was 4 years ago. Imagine the storage fees alone. She is nice protected area. The estimate to get her done my cost that is, is around 3K in parts and materials if I do the work myself. Is it worth it...:? /ch On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: Listmates: I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return great pleasure for years. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7773 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7774 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7774 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

On 12/6/2012 2:38 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > > > Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a > cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely > expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity I'm sitting here grinning. The only significant defect in the Cal 25 that prompted all this is the delaminated deck. Gee, if we can't keep precipitation and the occasional spray out of the boat on the deck, how can we be assured of keeping the water out when it's in constant exposure and under pressure (the farther down the hull goes, the more "head" on the water and the more pressure). And that doesn't address the issue of moisture intrusion from inside (bilge water, leakage, etc.). The theory of cored materials is sound but in practice in a marine environment it presents many challenges. Chris Campbell

On 12/6/2012 4:03 PM, george macon wrote: > > > Gerry, > > I do not consider the deck of a Cal 25 "cored" Its simply a plywood > headliner, that is removable with some effort. a CORED deck would > require more precision removal of a laminate to access the plywood or > balsa. This isn't so on the Cal. George: My Cal 20 and the local orphan Cal 25 both have what I call a cored deck--fiberglass laminate on top, then plywood, then fiberglass in resin on the lower side. It's done for reasons of stiffness (core failure produces spongy/bouncy panels). The lower-side 'glass does improve the structure's strength. The plywood isn't there just for looks. I note that my Cal 20 has cored panels in the footwell sole and in the cockpit seats, including the locker cover portion. Maybe we're just quibbling over semantics, but I tend to see the engineered I-beam characteristic of what I call a core as the thing that makes it a core. If it was just for looks, we could solve the rot problem by just removing the offending plywood. Chris Campbell

Man how to we go from a project CAL to cored hulls in 5 posts. My only point was to answer the questions, "why are list mates not lining up to drag this thing away". The conclusion Ive come too, is that the market is so flat that the cost of repairs on a 25 footer get you a 30 footer (without cored hulls) with a diesel and cruising inventory of sails all in good shape. So if I was new to sailing which one would I take? That was my only point. I would gladly work on a boat like this if it was local. Im looking at over 500 bucks just in gas to drag her home if she was fee. /ch On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > On 12/6/2012 2:38 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > > Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored > hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to > re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity > > > I'm sitting here grinning. The only significant defect in the Cal 25 > that prompted all this is the delaminated deck. Gee, if we can't keep > precipitation and the occasional spray out of the boat on the deck, how > can we be assured of keeping the water out when it's in constant exposure > and under pressure (the farther down the hull goes, the more "head" on the > water and the more pressure). And that doesn't address the issue of > moisture intrusion from inside (bilge water, leakage, etc.). > > The theory of cored materials is sound but in practice in a marine > environment it presents many challenges. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > -- /ch

I apologize for being handicapped, like most young folks, and having a short attention span. But, where, geographically, is this particular Cal25. Regards, Wayne On Dec 5, 2012, at 10:03 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > Listmates: > > I'm hoping that we can find a new owner for the orphan Cal 25 that was donated to my schooner organization. What's puzzling is why people aren't standing in line to acquire old fiberglass sailboats that need some money and more labor. Many people have more time & energy than money these days. With some sweat equity you can have a sturdy vessel that will return great pleasure for years. > > Thinking about that reminded me of a guy we encountered on one of the schooner's summer voyages around the Great Lakes a couple years ago. It's how she earns her keep, serving as a dockside historic tourist attraction. At any rate, in one port we encountered this guy in his Coronado 25, single-handing his way through his vacation. (My summer job in college was at a sailboat sales/rental/school operation, and we had a new Coronado 25 we were selling ca. 1967 or 1968. The company later became Catalina. This was an old boat by 2008.) The owner, a Chrysler assembly line worker from the Detroit area, was having a great time sailing his old boat northward in Lake Huron. We ran into him a few days after the first meeting. He was still having fun. He was an immigrant from one of the old USSR countries. Maybe that's why he had fixed up his old boat and set sail for a couple weeks. He enjoyed the freedom of being able to do so. > > It just stumps me that more people don't do this. There's an image that yachting is an elite, costly undertaking but that's only true if you have fondness for one of those 50 foot "daysailers" that seem to be all the rage in the yachting magazines these days. (Please note that the latest Sailing magazine contains Bob Perry's review of a Beneteau 25, a little cruiser of a kind that had disappeared). > > And the Cal 25 is a more substantial vessel than that Coronado 25. Here's a chance for somebody to have a lot of fun for a lot of summers. Why isn't a line forming?.... > > Chris Campbell > > >

In the past 4 years I have restored 7 Cal 20's ,some were free some were $500, I figure that @ $20 for labor and parts, I spent about 8 to 10 grand doing this on each boat. I now sail a Santa Cruz 27 I bought for $3400. My wife says YOUR(not our) boat now has upwards of $25k in her. How does she know? That does not figure in labor costs. None the less PRICELESS! I can sail to Japan tomorrow if I need to do so! My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Man how to we go from a project CAL to cored hulls in 5 posts. My only point was to answer the questions, "why are list mates not lining up to drag this thing away". The conclusion Ive come too, is that the market is so flat that the cost of repairs on a 25 footer get you a 30 footer (without cored hulls) with a diesel and cruising inventory of sails all in good shape. So if I was new to sailing which one would I take? That was my only point. I would gladly work on a boat like this if it was local. Im looking at over 500 bucks just in gas to drag her home if she was fee. /ch On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > >On 12/6/2012 2:38 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > >Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity >I'm sitting here grinning. The only significant defect in the Cal 25 that prompted all this is the delaminated deck. Gee, if we can't keep precipitation and the occasional spray out of the boat on the deck, how can we be assured of keeping the water out when it's in constant exposure and under pressure (the farther down the hull goes, the more "head" on the water and the more pressure). And that doesn't address the issue of moisture intrusion from inside (bilge water, leakage, etc.). > >The theory of cored materials is sound but in practice in a marine environment it presents many challenges. > >Chris Campbell > > > > -- /ch

I am a long lister to this list I decided to sell my Cal 34 and I bought a Merit 25 a boat I grew up on .Got tired of a hard to service engine and a co owner that lost interest. The merit had lots of wet core in the aeras of the chain plates . This is very expensive to fix . but if these boats were maintained with good calking it would have save me thousands of dolars. Cored decks and hulls are great if takinen care of.they are light and strong. Like with all these boats we will see fatique after years of use. We have seen keels starting to woble in the Cal 29s but it can be fixed cheeper the buying a 90s boatFrom: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Man how to we go from a project CAL to cored hulls in 5 posts. My only point was to answer the questions, "why are list mates not lining up to drag this thing away". The conclusion Ive come too, is that the market is so flat that the cost of repairs on a 25 footer get you a 30 footer (without cored hulls) with a diesel and cruising inventory of sails all in good shape. So if I was new to sailing which one would I take? That was my only point. I would gladly work on a boat like this if it was local. Im looking at over 500 bucks just in gas to drag her home if she was fee. /ch On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: On 12/6/2012 2:38 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity I'm sitting here grinning. The only significant defect in the Cal 25 that prompted all this is the delaminated deck. Gee, if we can't keep precipitation and the occasional spray out of the boat on the deck, how can we be assured of keeping the water out when it's in constant exposure and under pressure (the farther down the hull goes, the more "head" on the water and the more pressure). And that doesn't address the issue of moisture intrusion from inside (bilge water, leakage, etc.). The theory of cored materials is sound but in practice in a marine environment it presents many challenges. Chris Campbell -- /ch

Mike, probably so, and as long as you don't break down, and catch fish along the way, and have enough wind but not too much, it'll be cheaper than flying there. ??? Jerry From: mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: mao nguyen <ma… [at] yahoo.com>; Jacqueline Philpott <js… [at] yahoo.com>; David Morris <da… [at] flica.net> Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats In the past 4 years I have restored 7 Cal 20's ,some were free some were $500, I figure that @ $20 for labor and parts, I spent about 8 to 10 grand doing this on each boat. I now sail a Santa Cruz 27 I bought for $3400. My wife says YOUR(not our) boat now has upwards of $25k in her. How does she know? That does not figure in labor costs. None the less PRICELESS! I can sail to Japan tomorrow if I need to do so! My Best, Mike Farrell Yellow Jack USA57313 From: chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Man how to we go from a project CAL to cored hulls in 5 posts. My only point was to answer the questions, "why are list mates not lining up to drag this thing away". The conclusion Ive come too, is that the market is so flat that the cost of repairs on a 25 footer get you a 30 footer (without cored hulls) with a diesel and cruising inventory of sails all in good shape. So if I was new to sailing which one would I take? That was my only point. I would gladly work on a boat like this if it was local. Im looking at over 500 bucks just in gas to drag her home if she was fee. /ch On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > >On 12/6/2012 2:38 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > >Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity >I'm sitting here grinning. The only significant defect in the Cal 25 that prompted all this is the delaminated deck. Gee, if we can't keep precipitation and the occasional spray out of the boat on the deck, how can we be assured of keeping the water out when it's in constant exposure and under pressure (the farther down the hull goes, the more "head" on the water and the more pressure). And that doesn't address the issue of moisture intrusion from inside (bilge water, leakage, etc.). > >The theory of cored materials is sound but in practice in a marine environment it presents many challenges. > >Chris Campbell > > > > -- /ch

My reason for bringing up today's modern cored hulls and their issues was simply to make a contrast between putting a relatively small amount of money into saving an old solid hull vs the high cost of maintaining a newer used hull with exponential cost to repair. ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Man how to we go from a project CAL to cored hulls in 5 posts. My only point was to answer the questions, "why are list mates not lining up to drag this thing away". The conclusion Ive come too, is that the market is so flat that the cost of repairs on a 25 footer get you a 30 footer (without cored hulls) with a diesel and cruising inventory of sails all in good shape. So if I was new to sailing which one would I take? That was my only point. I would gladly work on a boat like this if it was local. Im looking at over 500 bucks just in gas to drag her home if she was fee. /ch On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: On 12/6/2012 2:38 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity I'm sitting here grinning. The only significant defect in the Cal 25 that prompted all this is the delaminated deck. Gee, if we can't keep precipitation and the occasional spray out of the boat on the deck, how can we be assured of keeping the water out when it's in constant exposure and under pressure (the farther down the hull goes, the more "head" on the water and the more pressure). And that doesn't address the issue of moisture intrusion from inside (bilge water, leakage, etc.). The theory of cored materials is sound but in practice in a marine environment it presents many challenges. Chris Campbell -- /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7774 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7778 (20121207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Mark, yeah. I think I saw a video on Sailing World, or youtube, or, maybe even this site, on how to repair one of them cored hull boats. I think it involves a skip loader (is that the right term?) or a fair sized yellow bulldozer, or something like that. Renting those isn't cheap. --- On Fri, 12/7/12, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote: From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 7, 2012, 4:36 PM My reason for bringing up today's modern cored hulls and their issues was simply to make a contrast between putting a relatively small amount of money into saving an old solid hull vs the high cost of maintaining a newer used hull with exponential cost to repair. ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Man how to we go from a project CAL to cored hulls in 5 posts. My only point was to answer the questions, "why are list mates not lining up to drag this thing away". The conclusion Ive come too, is that the market is so flat that the cost of repairs on a 25 footer get you a 30 footer (without cored hulls) with a diesel and cruising inventory of sails all in good shape. So if I was new to sailing which one would I take? That was my only point. I would gladly work on a boat like this if it was local. Im looking at over 500 bucks just in gas to drag her home if she was fee. /ch On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: On 12/6/2012 2:38 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity I'm sitting here grinning. The only significant defect in the Cal 25 that prompted all this is the delaminated deck. Gee, if we can't keep precipitation and the occasional spray out of the boat on the deck, how can we be assured of keeping the water out when it's in constant exposure and under pressure (the farther down the hull goes, the more "head" on the water and the more pressure). And that doesn't address the issue of moisture intrusion from inside (bilge water, leakage, etc.). The theory of cored materials is sound but in practice in a marine environment it presents many challenges. Chris Campbell -- /ch Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7774 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7778 (20121207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Earlier Cal 20's up to about hull 75 did not have the plywood under the foredeck and cockpit seats. As a former owner of hull 61 , I can tell you that the earlier boats were lighter than the boats that had a plywood underdeck. Jensen Marine listed the weight of pre plywood boats at 1650 pounds. If one looks at the results of Cal 20 Nationals winners you will see that most were pre hull 75. I can also tell you that COYOTE #61 was a different boat than RAMBLER #1114 which won the 2010 Great Vallejo Race. My Best, Mike Farrell From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Fixing mast support beam; Cored hulls? was.Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats On 12/6/2012 4:03 PM, george macon wrote: Gerry, > > >I do not consider the deck of a Cal 25 "cored" Its simply a plywood headliner, that is removable with some effort. a CORED deck would require more precision removal of a laminate to access the plywood or balsa. This isn't so on the Cal. George: My Cal 20 and the local orphan Cal 25 both have what I call a cored deck--fiberglass laminate on top, then plywood, then fiberglass in resin on the lower side. It's done for reasons of stiffness (core failure produces spongy/bouncy panels). The lower-side 'glass does improve the structure's strength. The plywood isn't there just for looks. I note that my Cal 20 has cored panels in the footwell sole and in the cockpit seats, including the locker cover portion. Maybe we're just quibbling over semantics, but I tend to see the engineered I-beam characteristic of what I call a core as the thing that makes it a core. If it was just for looks, we could solve the rot problem by just removing the offending plywood. Chris Campbell

Since you will inevitably not get your money out of fixing up the old fixer-upper, it may be a better stratagy to find one all fixed up and pay a little more and sail alot more. An owner who has poured too much money into the boat and gear will almost never recover his costs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats My reason for bringing up today's modern cored hulls and their issues was simply to make a contrast between putting a relatively small amount of money into saving an old solid hull vs the high cost of maintaining a newer used hull with exponential cost to repair. ----- Original Message ----- From: chris123 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Old boats Man how to we go from a project CAL to cored hulls in 5 posts. My only point was to answer the questions, "why are list mates not lining up to drag this thing away". The conclusion Ive come too, is that the market is so flat that the cost of repairs on a 25 footer get you a 30 footer (without cored hulls) with a diesel and cruising inventory of sails all in good shape. So if I was new to sailing which one would I take? That was my only point. I would gladly work on a boat like this if it was local. Im looking at over 500 bucks just in gas to drag her home if she was fee. /ch On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: On 12/6/2012 2:38 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: Most new boats if not all are not solid build. I am not ready for a cored hull. There is too much data indicating failures and extremely expensive to re core. This is not an option worthy of longevity I'm sitting here grinning. The only significant defect in the Cal 25 that prompted all this is the delaminated deck. Gee, if we can't keep precipitation and the occasional spray out of the boat on the deck, how can we be assured of keeping the water out when it's in constant exposure and under pressure (the farther down the hull goes, the more "head" on the water and the more pressure). And that doesn't address the issue of moisture intrusion from inside (bilge water, leakage, etc.). The theory of cored materials is sound but in practice in a marine environment it presents many challenges. Chris Campbell -- /ch __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7774 (20121206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7778 (20121207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7778 (20121207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7778 (20121207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

On 12/7/2012 11:46 PM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) wrote: > > > Since you will inevitably not get your money out of fixing up the old > fixer-upper, it may be a better stratagy to find one all fixed up and > pay a little more and sail alot more. An owner who has poured too > much money into the boat and gear will almost never recover his costs. I'm at my office on a Sunday night, catching up on e-mails that I've ignored during an exceptionally busy period. As a guy who's got more time than money, or at least more willingness to work than money, I'm always willing to invest my labor in a useful project without expecting to get the value back out at sale time. For many of us, the work we do on boats is inherently enjoyable. It is a chance to engage in craftsmanship, to use skills and ingenuity to solve problems. My other boat is fiberglass but has a lot of mahogany trim and spruce mast & boom, and I've been the one who has kept it varnished for 45 years. Does it make financial sense to spend all that time sanding and varnishing, with the occasional down-to-wood stripping? No, probably not, but not all values are measured in money. Oscar Wilde remarked on the kind of people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing. Just so. Chris Campbell

While I fully agree with you Chris C there is simply too much product on the market today to buy a fixer upper unless its a labour of love and your going to keep it for a long time. Once you own a boat, money invested in it and time spend become irrelevant as you quite correctly point out. Its not a matter of investment from that point on. For people buying a boat however, its a completely different story right now. Interestingly enough that CAL-36 came up for sale again in MI on ebay. The one with the prop in the keel. Turns out it was a one year rule breaker for racing at the time, a rule that was later changed. You simply added a trim tab behind the keel which extend the keel around the prop thereby reducing the drag. At least this is what the owner told me. She's been up for sale at least 5 times now, a raced CAL 36 with no takers. He's getting smarter however as he lists it for a few days, and increases the price each time...:) This time round she did not sell again. He's up to 8K now for that boat with an A-4 in place and she's been heavily raced on Lake MI. By way of other examples...a refurbished Contessa 26 (double axles trailer) with the interior stripped ready to be replaced in terms of teak only and diesel in place is asking 3500 (will sell for 2500) on Lake Superior and back on Lake MI a Cherubini Hunter 30 in full cruising dress with a shallow keel and blade will be sold eventually for 2500 including the diesel with only a few hrs on it. Either one of these is a lifetime investment boat that once you get her, you pour all your affections into it and get a trailer for to avoid excessive yard fees if she does not come with one. Just pay a trucker to move her to a storage lot for the winter, splash her yourself, crane not needed with a well build extension tongue that comes with its own wheels. Trailer cans be found and are very affordable right now around 1500. So your only major costs are your slip or mooring for the season. On land storage around here outside of the marinas runs about 200-600 for the winter with a mooring ball starting at 90-1500 for the summer. Removing the stick is typically done at 2 dollars a foot or free at the local gin pole as long as you buy drinks for the crew at the bar. So it really can be affordable and really makes you scratch your head, do I really want to take on a project vessel. Been down that road, and what surprised me is that one of the most singular expensive items is epoxy at 90 a gallon retail. That and self tailing winches. But I agree, there is simply nothing nicer then messing around with your boat. Combined with a good dog and man life is good...) Best regards /ch On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > I'm at my office on a Sunday night, catching up on e-mails that I've > ignored during an exceptionally busy period. As a guy who's got more time > than money, or at least more willingness to work than money, I'm always > willing to invest my labor in a useful project without expecting to get the > value back out at sale time. For many of us, the work we do on boats is > inherently enjoyable. It is a chance to engage in craftsmanship, to use > skills and ingenuity to solve problems. My other boat is fiberglass but > has a lot of mahogany trim and spruce mast & boom, and I've been the one > who has kept it varnished for 45 years. Does it make financial sense to > spend all that time sanding and varnishing, with the occasional > down-to-wood stripping? No, probably not, but not all values are measured > in money. Oscar Wilde remarked on the kind of people who know the price of > everything and the value of nothing. Just so. > > -- /ch

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/33241 Cal 20 - prepped and proven for blue water. Don't know the guy, but his boat and blog www.sailblogs.com/member/lonegull/?xjMsgID=248232 were pretty interesting.

I do.Thats Kevin Sauvages boat Lone Gull. I was in contact with Kevin and he put a lot of work into that boat. Its worth the price. Im wondering why however as our last conversation was that he was planning an atlantic crossing in the spring. She;s a solid freshwater Cal that has been completely rebuild. /ch On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Robert Libbert <rl… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/33241 > > Cal 20 - prepped and proven for blue water. Don't know the guy, but his > boat and blog www.sailblogs.com/member/lonegull/?xjMsgID=248232 were > pretty interesting. > > > -- /ch

Health issues. Whoever gets this boat is going to het a nice one. Study the rebuild pictures as a lot of thought went into this boat. Not sure how much of his ocean going kit he`s selling but the level should be high. Ch chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >I do.Thats Kevin Sauvages boat Lone Gull. I was in contact with Kevin >and >he put a lot of work into that boat. Its worth the price. Im wondering >why >however as our last conversation was that he was planning an atlantic >crossing in the spring. She;s a solid freshwater Cal that has been >completely rebuild. > >/ch > >On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Robert Libbert <rl… [at] yahoo.com> >wrote: > >> >> >> >> http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/33241 >> >> Cal 20 - prepped and proven for blue water. Don't know the guy, but >his >> boat and blog www.sailblogs.com/member/lonegull/?xjMsgID=248232 were >> pretty interesting. >> >> >> --