Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit

Chris, Thanks for the encouragement. Jon is my son, we bought the boat in October and hauled it out Dec 1. We have it in my workplace heated shop. Your reply is exactly how we feel. By the way our boat is hull #7, I haven’t seen a lower number on the site. My main concern is the compression post. It appears that a previous owner has tighten the s*** out of the shrouds. The area that the post sits on next to the sink is depressed about ¼ inch. It doesn’t look like the support under the cabinet goes all the way to the keel. Any suggestions would be appreciated. The boat is located at the Beaver Lake Sail Club on Beaver Lake, Northwest Arkansas. John R Thorn NuDawn Inc 479.263.6448 Cell jt… [at] nudawninc.com

On 1/3/2013 10:13 AM, John Thorn wrote: > > > Chris, Thanks for the encouragement. Jon is my son, we bought the > boat in October and hauled it out Dec 1. We have it in my workplace > heated shop. Your reply is exactly how we feel. > Nice to know that others don't always have $$$ blinders on. Sailing makes no financial sense at all but my life would be much poorer without it. > > By the way our boat is hull #7, I haven't seen a lower number on the > site. My main concern is the compression post. It appears that a > previous owner has tighten the s*** out of the shrouds. The area that > the post sits on next to the sink is depressed about ¼ inch. It > doesn't look like the support under the cabinet goes all the way to > the keel. Any suggestions would be appreciated. > I don't have a 27. My Cal is a delightful Cal 20, a little boat I bought as a temporary fix but fell in love with. As you may have read on the list, Cals used a variety of post support schemes, some steel. Whether yours is steel or wood, peer far enough underneath to determine whether the post is sinking because its support is deteriorating. My Cal 20 has a beam athwartship with compression posts on either side of the place where the head originally sat on the centerline. The original beam shows a crack in the middle and somebody had sistered it on either side very skillfully. It looks like a factory repair to me. The posts have slightly compressed the pine wood structure they sit on so the deck and mast step have sunk very slightly. One of these years before stepping the mast I'll take the hydraulic jack out, lift the posts slightly, and put some thin shims under the bottoms of the two compression posts. For most Cals, the rig rule seems to be "looser is better." Charlie Husar can provide further details. Chris Campbell

I didn’t see any reference to shroud replacement on your list but it should be considered. Many years ago I was racing against a T/2 (a first cousin of the 27pt) when his mast failed due to a shroud failure, when we got back to the dock everyone started looking at their shrouds and the owner of a 27pt found that one of his shrouds was near the failure point at the same point as the failed t/2. The point was where the shroud was swaged at the turnbuckle end. Interestingly the shroud that failed was on the boat that kept everything VERY loose the other owner kept everything moderately tight. BTW my 227 is hull number 650 the last boat built in this series is reported to be 656. John B CAL 227 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Thorn Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:13 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit Chris, Thanks for the encouragement. Jon is my son, we bought the boat in October and hauled it out Dec 1. We have it in my workplace heated shop. Your reply is exactly how we feel. By the way our boat is hull #7, I haven’t seen a lower number on the site. My main concern is the compression post. It appears that a previous owner has tighten the s*** out of the shrouds. The area that the post sits on next to the sink is depressed about ¼ inch. It doesn’t look like the support under the cabinet goes all the way to the keel. Any suggestions would be appreciated. The boat is located at the Beaver Lake Sail Club on Beaver Lake, Northwest Arkansas. John R Thorn NuDawn Inc 479.263.6448 Cell jt… [at] nudawninc.com

On 1/3/2013 10:53 AM, John Boyce wrote: > > Interestingly the shroud that failed was on the boat that kept > everything VERY loose the other owner kept everything moderately tight. > Years ago on this list there was a discussion of wire rigging failure issues. One problem with loose rigging is that there are more cycles of loading and relief, with abrupt changes in tension. It's basically shock loading. The suggestion was that it accelerated wire failure. My other boat had original standing rigging, holding up a heavy wooden mast, for about 45 years. There was no evidence of incipient failure but I got nervous and replaced the rigging on the theory that after 45 years the old rig had paid for itself. The Cal 20's rigging is of unknown vintage, except for the backstay. That failed at the end of my first season with the boat and I replaced it with Steve Seal's heavier gauge version. Chris Campbell

I was given the excellent advice of hanging a zinc "guppy" off of the stern of QE and attached to the backstay by the salesman who sold us our boat. We have done so from day one. We had the stays inspected at the last mast raising this past July and after 26 years of service the stays were judged to be in excellent condition. We have had countless guppies during the life of the boat -- I replace them when they are still about 1/3 remaining as the surface area is reduced. In the fresh water of the Columbia River my almost year old guppy shows almost no loss of material at all. Must admit, though, that all of the talk of replacing the standing rigging on a regular basis has me thinking it might be time. Imperically, however, the "guppies'" sacrifice seems to be giving the stays on my boat an extremely long service life! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" PS I have read that the average life of an inflatable dinghy is 5 years. We owned our Achilles for over 24 years before it finally had to be retired. It had been used very hard, but always put away clean and dry. It would seem to me that the average boat owner is more like the one Chris talks about who did not even know how to adjust his hitch and put it off until the "professional" could fix it for him. DIY is great for extending the life of anything, car, boat, house, etc. On Jan 3, 2013, at 8:00 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > On 1/3/2013 10:53 AM, John Boyce wrote: >> >> Interestingly the shroud that failed was on the boat that kept everything VERY loose the other owner kept everything moderately tight. >> >> >> > Years ago on this list there was a discussion of wire rigging failure issues. One problem with loose rigging is that there are more cycles of loading and relief, with abrupt changes in tension. It's basically shock loading. The suggestion was that it accelerated wire failure. > > My other boat had original standing rigging, holding up a heavy wooden mast, for about 45 years. There was no evidence of incipient failure but I got nervous and replaced the rigging on the theory that after 45 years the old rig had paid for itself. The Cal 20's rigging is of unknown vintage, except for the backstay. That failed at the end of my first season with the boat and I replaced it with Steve Seal's heavier gauge version. > > Chris Campbell > > >

Don, how does the 'guppy' protect your rigging? Is that only true if the rigging is grounded to the sea water? I'm not following this, but if there is something I can do to prevent rigging failure or prolong my rigging I'm all for it. My rigging is lose in the theory that if puts less constant pressure on the dog house support beam. When I got my boat I discovered the fiberglass under the beam cracked/torn after my first sail, which was inside the harbor but in very strong gusty conditions (typical of Channel Islands Marina), and that the PO had had the rigging piano string tight. In the last 15 years that tear has gotten worse, but I haven't figured out the best way to repair it. Bevel crack and reglass? Jerry From: Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit I was given the excellent advice of hanging a zinc "guppy" off of the stern of QE and attached to the backstay by the salesman who sold us our boat. We have done so from day one. We had the stays inspected at the last mast raising this past July and after 26 years of service the stays were judged to be in excellent condition. We have had countless guppies during the life of the boat -- I replace them when they are still about 1/3 remaining as the surface area is reduced. In the fresh water of the Columbia River my almost year old guppy shows almost no loss of material at all. Must admit, though, that all of the talk of replacing the standing rigging on a regular basis has me thinking it might be time. Imperically, however, the "guppies'" sacrifice seems to be giving the stays on my boat an extremely long service life! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" PS I have read that the average life of an inflatable dinghy is 5 years. We owned our Achilles for over 24 years before it finally had to be retired. It had been used very hard, but always put away clean and dry. It would seem to me that the average boat owner is more like the one Chris talks about who did not even know how to adjust his hitch and put it off until the "professional" could fix it for him. DIY is great for extending the life of anything, car, boat, house, etc. On Jan 3, 2013, at 8:00 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > >On 1/3/2013 10:53 AM, John Boyce wrote: > > >>Interestingly the shroud that failed was on the boat that kept everything VERY loose the other owner kept everything moderately tight. >> Years ago on this list there was a discussion of wire rigging failure issues. One problem with loose rigging is that there are more cycles of loading and relief, with abrupt changes in tension. It's basically shock loading. The suggestion was that it accelerated wire failure. > >My other boat had original standing rigging, holding up a heavy wooden mast, for about 45 years. There was no evidence of incipient failure but I got nervous and replaced the rigging on the theory that after 45 years the old rig had paid for itself. The Cal 20's rigging is of unknown vintage, except for the backstay. That failed at the end of my first season with the boat and I replaced it with Steve Seal's heavier gauge version. > >Chris Campbell > > > >

I paid $9,000 for my Cal 2-29. I have put approximately $150,000 into it spread over the 17 years I've owned it. I have enjoyed all $150,000 of it, every penny. This is good, because my boat is worth about $9,000 in todays boating economy. Go for it! Wilkie PS -- a friend of mine used to live in Rogers. I have fished Beaver Lake and like most of the big waters in the Ozarks I found it Beautiful. On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:13 AM, John Thorn <jt… [at] nudawninc.com> wrote: Chris, Thanks for the encouragement. Jon is my son, we bought the boat in October and hauled it out Dec 1. We have it in my workplace heated shop. Your reply is exactly how we feel. By the way our boat is hull #7, I haven’t seen a lower number on the site. My main concern is the compression post. It appears that a previous owner has tighten the s*** out of the shrouds. The area that the post sits on next to the sink is depressed about ¼ inch. It doesn’t look like the support under the cabinet goes all the way to the keel. Any suggestions would be appreciated. The boat is located at the Beaver Lake Sail Club on Beaver Lake, Northwest Arkansas. John R Thorn NuDawn Inc 479.263.6448 Cell jt… [at] nudawninc.com

Jerry, The guppy is a sacrificial anode just like the zinc on your shaft protects the prop and shaft. By connecting to the backstay the anode is connected electrically to all of the other stays through the mast as my boat has metal spreaders as well. Therefore, the zinc "rusts" and leaves the stainless stays free of corrosion. My swage tops show no rust discoloration whatsoever. I also religiously rinsed the boat with freshwater whenever returning from a sail in saltwater with spray over the decks. I tightened my rig as per the instructions that Lier Siegler provided with the boat. When sailing close hauled, my leeward shrouds are loose and show some play. All shrouds are firm enough to hold the stick perfectly straight. I start with the top shrouds and work down and use a Loos gauge to make sure the tensions are the same on each opposing shroud. Does not matter if the Loos gauge is "correct" as long as it is consistent. And tightening to keep slop in the leewards keeps all of the shrouds below half of their working strength further lessening strain on the wire. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:44 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Don, how does the 'guppy' protect your rigging? Is that only true if the rigging is grounded to the sea water? > I'm not following this, but if there is something I can do to prevent rigging failure or prolong my rigging I'm all for it. > My rigging is lose in the theory that if puts less constant pressure on the dog house support beam. When I got my boat I discovered the fiberglass under the beam cracked/torn after my first sail, which was inside the harbor but in very strong gusty conditions (typical of Channel Islands Marina), and that the PO had had the rigging piano string tight. In the last 15 years that tear has gotten worse, but I haven't figured out the best way to repair it. Bevel crack and reglass? > Jerry > > > From: Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cc: Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit > > > I was given the excellent advice of hanging a zinc "guppy" off of the stern of QE and attached to the backstay by the salesman who sold us our boat. We have done so from day one. We had the stays inspected at the last mast raising this past July and after 26 years of service the stays were judged to be in excellent condition. We have had countless guppies during the life of the boat -- I replace them when they are still about 1/3 remaining as the surface area is reduced. In the fresh water of the Columbia River my almost year old guppy shows almost no loss of material at all. > > Must admit, though, that all of the talk of replacing the standing rigging on a regular basis has me thinking it might be time. Imperically, however, the "guppies'" sacrifice seems to be giving the stays on my boat an extremely long service life! > > Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > PS I have read that the average life of an inflatable dinghy is 5 years. We owned our Achilles for over 24 years before it finally had to be retired. It had been used very hard, but always put away clean and dry. It would seem to me that the average boat owner is more like the one Chris talks about who did not even know how to adjust his hitch and put it off until the "professional" could fix it for him. DIY is great for extending the life of anything, car, boat, house, etc. > > On Jan 3, 2013, at 8:00 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > >> >> >> On 1/3/2013 10:53 AM, John Boyce wrote: >>> >>> Interestingly the shroud that failed was on the boat that kept everything VERY loose the other owner kept everything moderately tight. >>> >> Years ago on this list there was a discussion of wire rigging failure issues. One problem with loose rigging is that there are more cycles of loading and relief, with abrupt changes in tension. It's basically shock loading. The suggestion was that it accelerated wire failure. >> >> My other boat had original standing rigging, holding up a heavy wooden mast, for about 45 years. There was no evidence of incipient failure but I got nervous and replaced the rigging on the theory that after 45 years the old rig had paid for itself. The Cal 20's rigging is of unknown vintage, except for the backstay. That failed at the end of my first season with the boat and I replaced it with Steve Seal's heavier gauge version. >> >> Chris Campbell >> >> > > > > >