RE: [Cal_Boats] Genoa cut

HI, Dutchess. Yes that racing sail was a deck sweeper. Seeing under the sail does not work well. I always have a watch below (also trimmer) when racing with sails like that. I higher cut clew (shorter leech) is desirable for cruising. Does affect performance some, but not that much. You probably would not want to go as high on the clew as a yankee. Many opinions on the topic below: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/62386-do-yankees-go-windward.html Did the Kevlar delaminate and/or crack up? Cheers Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dutchessc22 Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:23 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Genoa cut I am about to order a new genoa for my CAL 2-34 - the existing Kevlar racing genoa is shot. The Luff and leach are almost equal in lenght at 39.5 and 37.8 ft respectively, with a foot of 20ft - my question for this learned group is - since I never yet sailed this boat, whould a headsail cut as such severely restrict forward visibility? Are there any of you out there that have a 140 -150 Genoa like that and wish you would have cut it higher on the leech? Any and all input will be appreciated. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Thanks for the response - the Kevlar has disintegrated within the suncover and there is a piece of about 4ft x 8" just about shredded there, just below the spreader patch. Since the sail will be 6.5oz Dacron and for cruising only, I will reduce the leech somewhat... Going to about 6ft less should raise it off the deck (and probably the life lines) sufficiently to improve forward visibility, do you agree? Thanks again. Paul - CAL 2-34 #411, Raritan Bay, NJ - sorry for not including my sign-off in previous posts. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" wrote: > > HI, Dutchess. Yes that racing sail was a deck sweeper. Seeing under the sail does not work well. I always have a watch below (also trimmer) when racing with sails like that. I higher cut clew (shorter leech) is desirable for cruising. Does affect performance some, but not that much. You probably would not want to go as high on the clew as a yankee. Many opinions on the topic below: > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/62386-do-yankees-go-windward.html > > Did the Kevlar delaminate and/or crack up? > > Cheers > Charlie > Annapolis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dutchessc22 > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:23 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Genoa cut > > I am about to order a new genoa for my CAL 2-34 - the existing Kevlar racing genoa is shot. > > The Luff and leach are almost equal in lenght at 39.5 and 37.8 ft respectively, with a foot of 20ft - my question for this learned group is - since I never yet sailed this boat, whould a headsail cut as such severely restrict forward visibility? Are there any of you out there that have a 140 -150 Genoa like that and wish you would have cut it higher on the leech? > > Any and all input will be appreciated. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

You should realize that having a higher clew is not all bad. It is a performance loss for beating but for off the wind, it is a gain, much easier to get good sail shape. So you will gain more than just the ability to see under the sail. There are a number of things on my web site that might help you. There is the used sail finder so you can enter your boat name and it will search the data base of half a dozen vendors for sails. There is a calculator that will give the sail % and clew height given the right inputs. Check them out, all free of course. HERE <http://l-36.com/LP_calc.php> is the page to calculate the sail size and the used sail page has its own tab. Enjoy, Allen L-36.com On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 5:28 PM, dutchessc22 <du… [at] aim.com> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks for the response - the Kevlar has disintegrated within the suncover > and there is a piece of about 4ft x 8" just about shredded there, just > below the spreader patch. > > Since the sail will be 6.5oz Dacron and for cruising only, I will reduce > the leech somewhat... Going to about 6ft less should raise it off the deck > (and probably the life lines) sufficiently to improve forward visibility, > do you agree? > > Thanks again. > > Paul - CAL 2-34 #411, Raritan Bay, NJ - sorry for not including my > sign-off in previous posts. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" wrote: > > > > HI, Dutchess. Yes that racing sail was a deck sweeper. Seeing under the > sail does not work well. I always have a watch below (also trimmer) when > racing with sails like that. I higher cut clew (shorter leech) is desirable > for cruising. Does affect performance some, but not that much. You probably > would not want to go as high on the clew as a yankee. Many opinions on the > topic below: > > > > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/62386-do-yankees-go-windward.html > > > > Did the Kevlar delaminate and/or crack up? > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > Annapolis > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of dutchessc22 > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:23 PM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Genoa cut > > > > I am about to order a new genoa for my CAL 2-34 - the existing Kevlar > racing genoa is shot. > > > > The Luff and leach are almost equal in lenght at 39.5 and 37.8 ft > respectively, with a foot of 20ft - my question for this learned group is - > since I never yet sailed this boat, whould a headsail cut as such severely > restrict forward visibility? Are there any of you out there that have a 140 > -150 Genoa like that and wish you would have cut it higher on the leech? > > > > Any and all input will be appreciated. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

talk with your sailmaker. You want to make sure the sheet leads correctly for the cut of the sail. Just raising the clew could call for moving the car so far aft that it would run out of track unless the sail design was otherwise adjusted. Basic design of the sail should have your genoa sheet car at about mid track. reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: du… [at] aim.com Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:28:50 +0000 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Genoa cut Thanks for the response - the Kevlar has disintegrated within the suncover and there is a piece of about 4ft x 8" just about shredded there, just below the spreader patch. Since the sail will be 6.5oz Dacron and for cruising only, I will reduce the leech somewhat... Going to about 6ft less should raise it off the deck (and probably the life lines) sufficiently to improve forward visibility, do you agree? Thanks again. Paul - CAL 2-34 #411, Raritan Bay, NJ - sorry for not including my sign-off in previous posts. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" wrote: > > HI, Dutchess. Yes that racing sail was a deck sweeper. Seeing under the sail does not work well. I always have a watch below (also trimmer) when racing with sails like that. I higher cut clew (shorter leech) is desirable for cruising. Does affect performance some, but not that much. You probably would not want to go as high on the clew as a yankee. Many opinions on the topic below: > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/62386-do-yankees-go-windward.html > > Did the Kevlar delaminate and/or crack up? > > Cheers > Charlie > Annapolis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dutchessc22 > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:23 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Genoa cut > > I am about to order a new genoa for my CAL 2-34 - the existing Kevlar racing genoa is shot. > > The Luff and leach are almost equal in lenght at 39.5 and 37.8 ft respectively, with a foot of 20ft - my question for this learned group is - since I never yet sailed this boat, whould a headsail cut as such severely restrict forward visibility? Are there any of you out there that have a 140 -150 Genoa like that and wish you would have cut it higher on the leech? > > Any and all input will be appreciated. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Rough rule of thumb is to have the sheet going to the clew point half way up the luff. Maybe a little lower in my experience but that is the rule of thumb. If your jib goes inside your rigging, there may be interference issues there as well as the same % sail will have the clew further aft if the clew is higher just because the headstay is slanted. Allen On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 4:50 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > talk with your sailmaker. You want to make sure the sheet leads correctly > for the cut of the sail. Just raising the clew could call for moving the > car so far aft that it would run out of track unless the sail design was > otherwise adjusted. Basic design of the sail should have your genoa sheet > car at about mid track. > reggie > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: du… [at] aim.com > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:28:50 +0000 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Genoa cut > > > > Thanks for the response - the Kevlar has disintegrated within the > suncover and there is a piece of about 4ft x 8" just about shredded there, > just below the spreader patch. > > Since the sail will be 6.5oz Dacron and for cruising only, I will reduce > the leech somewhat... Going to about 6ft less should raise it off the deck > (and probably the life lines) sufficiently to improve forward visibility, > do you agree? > > Thanks again. > > Paul - CAL 2-34 #411, Raritan Bay, NJ - sorry for not including my > sign-off in previous posts. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" wrote: > > > > HI, Dutchess. Yes that racing sail was a deck sweeper. Seeing under the > sail does not work well. I always have a watch below (also trimmer) when > racing with sails like that. I higher cut clew (shorter leech) is desirable > for cruising. Does affect performance some, but not that much. You probably > would not want to go as high on the clew as a yankee. Many opinions on the > topic below: > > > > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/62386-do-yankees-go-windward.html > > > > Did the Kevlar delaminate and/or crack up? > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > Annapolis > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of dutchessc22 > > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:23 PM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Genoa cut > > > > I am about to order a new genoa for my CAL 2-34 - the existing Kevlar > racing genoa is shot. > > > > The Luff and leach are almost equal in lenght at 39.5 and 37.8 ft > respectively, with a foot of 20ft - my question for this learned group is - > since I never yet sailed this boat, whould a headsail cut as such severely > restrict forward visibility? Are there any of you out there that have a 140 > -150 Genoa like that and wish you would have cut it higher on the leech? > > > > Any and all input will be appreciated. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

My belief is that a high clew is a bad idea unless you only intend to reach with the sail. The pressures on the sail tend to push the clew out, resulting in a wider sheeting angle. Good for reaching, bad for pointing. If you have any doubt, look at race-boats, and I think you'll find that they all have relatively low clews. They care about efficiency to windward. For a racer-cruiser, I'd recommend a clew height that is just above the lifelines, allowing you to sheet the sail to either the deck inside of the lifelines, or to the rail, outside of the lifelines. It is best not to have the "normal" lead at either end of the track. - For reaching you may want to move the lead forward to give the sail more power in the upper portions of the sail. - For heavy-weather up-wind sailing, you many want to move the lead a bit aft to reduce healing by decreasing the power in the upper portions of the sail. If forward visibility is a big issue, it may be easier to just raise the tack of the sail up 12" - 15". Maybe even up to the level of the pulpit / lifelines, and have the sail cut so that there is no "skirt", a straight line between tack and clew. But not for racing. For an approximate location for the genoa lead car, imagine a line extending from approximately 1/3rd of the distance up the luff of the sail, and back through the clew to the rail. You'll be close. Just my experience. Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Edwards<mailto:al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Genoa cut Rough rule of thumb is to have the sheet going to the clew point half way up the luff. Maybe a little lower in my experience but that is the rule of thumb. If your jib goes inside your rigging, there may be interference issues there as well as the same % sail will have the clew further aft if the clew is higher just because the headstay is slanted. Allen On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 4:50 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com<mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com>> wrote: talk with your sailmaker. You want to make sure the sheet leads correctly for the cut of the sail. Just raising the clew could call for moving the car so far aft that it would run out of track unless the sail design was otherwise adjusted. Basic design of the sail should have your genoa sheet car at about mid track. reggie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> From: du… [at] aim.com<mailto:du… [at] aim.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:28:50 +0000 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Genoa cut Thanks for the response - the Kevlar has disintegrated within the suncover and there is a piece of about 4ft x 8" just about shredded there, just below the spreader patch. Since the sail will be 6.5oz Dacron and for cruising only, I will reduce the leech somewhat... Going to about 6ft less should raise it off the deck (and probably the life lines) sufficiently to improve forward visibility, do you agree? Thanks again. Paul - CAL 2-34 #411, Raritan Bay, NJ - sorry for not including my sign-off in previous posts. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" wrote: > > HI, Dutchess. Yes that racing sail was a deck sweeper. Seeing under the sail does not work well. I always have a watch below (also trimmer) when racing with sails like that. I higher cut clew (shorter leech) is desirable for cruising. Does affect performance some, but not that much. You probably would not want to go as high on the clew as a yankee. Many opinions on the topic below: > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/62386-do-yankees-go-windward.html<http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/62386-do-yankees-go-windward.html> > > Did the Kevlar delaminate and/or crack up? > > Cheers > Charlie > Annapolis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of dutchessc22 > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:23 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Genoa cut > > I am about to order a new genoa for my CAL 2-34 - the existing Kevlar racing genoa is shot. > > The Luff and leach are almost equal in lenght at 39.5 and 37.8 ft respectively, with a foot of 20ft - my question for this learned group is - since I never yet sailed this boat, whould a headsail cut as such severely restrict forward visibility? Are there any of you out there that have a 140 -150 Genoa like that and wish you would have cut it higher on the leech? > > Any and all input will be appreciated. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

On my 2-34 my Genoa just touches the fwd life line and is about 4 foot above the deck at the clew. I run a roller furler. Sail is about a 135. Sheets about mid track. I will try to attach picture. Visibility is good for me. From: Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Genoa cut My belief is that a high clew is a bad idea unless you only intend to reach with the sail. The pressures on the sail tend to push the clew out, resulting in a wider sheeting angle. Good for reaching, bad for pointing. If you have any doubt, look at race-boats, and I think you'll find that they all have relatively low clews. They care about efficiency to windward. For a racer-cruiser, I'd recommend a clew height that is just above the lifelines, allowing you to sheet the sail to either the deck inside of the lifelines, or to the rail, outside of the lifelines. It is best not to have the "normal" lead at either end of the track. - For reaching you may want to move the lead forward to give the sail more power in the upper portions of the sail. - For heavy-weather up-wind sailing, you many want to move the lead a bit aft to reduce healing by decreasing the power in the upper portions of the sail. If forward visibility is a big issue, it may be easier to just raise the tack of the sail up 12" - 15". Maybe even up to the level of the pulpit / lifelines, and have the sail cut so that there is no "skirt", a straight line between tack and clew. But not for racing. For an approximate location for the genoa lead car, imagine a line extending from approximately 1/3rd of the distance up the luff of the sail, and back through the clew to the rail. You'll be close. Just my experience. Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, VA >From: Allen Edwards >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:02 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Genoa cut > >Rough rule of thumb is to have the sheet going to the clew point half way up the luff. Maybe a little lower in my experience but that is the rule of thumb. If your jib goes inside your rigging, there may be interference issues there as well as the same % sail will have the clew further aft if the clew is higher just because the headstay is slanted. > > >Allen >On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 4:50 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >>talk with your sailmaker. You want to make sure the sheet leads correctly for the cut of the sail. Just raising the clew could call for moving the car so far aft that it would run out of track unless the sail design was otherwise adjusted. Basic design of the sail should have your genoa sheet car at about mid track.reggie >> >> >>________________________________ >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.comFrom: du… [at] aim.comDate: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:28:50 +0000Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Genoa cut >> >>Thanks for the response - the Kevlar has disintegrated within the suncover and there is a piece of about 4ft x 8" just about shredded there, just below the spreader patch. Since the sail will be 6.5oz Dacron and for cruising only, I will reduce the leech somewhat... Going to about 6ft less should raise it off the deck (and probably the life lines) sufficiently to improve forward visibility, do you agree?Thanks again.Paul - CAL 2-34 #411, Raritan Bay, NJ - sorry for not including my sign-off in previous posts.--- In mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" wrote:>> HI, Dutchess. Yes that racing sail was a deck sweeper. Seeing under the sail does not work well. I always have a watch below (also trimmer) when racing with sails like that. I higher cut clew (shorter leech) is desirable for cruising. Does affect performance some, but not that much. You probably would not want to go as high on the clew as a yankee. Many opinions on the topic below:> > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/62386-do-yankees-go-windward.html> > Did the Kevlar delaminate and/or crack up?> > Cheers> Charlie> Annapolis> > -----Original Message-----> From: mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dutchessc22> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:23 PM> To: mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Genoa cut> > I am about to order a new genoa for my CAL 2-34 - the existing Kevlar racing genoa is shot. > > The Luff and leach are almost equal in lenght at 39.5 and 37.8 ft respectively, with a foot of 20ft - my question for this learned group is - since I never yet sailed this boat, whould a headsail cut as such severely restrict forward visibility? Are there any of you out there that have a 140 -150 Genoa like that and wish you would have cut it higher on the leech? > > Any and all input will be appreciated.> > > > ------------------------------------> > Yahoo! Groups Links>