Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement?

Hi, I was waking around the cabin of my Cal 29 this morning when I noticed that what I thought was just peeling paint around the forward hatch was actually looking more like a cracked fiberglass. I prodded it with a screw driver and it definitely felt like a crack, although I was hesitant to really dig into it. Here's a couple of pictures of it looking aft from the v-berth. What do you think? Is this a sign of the disintegrating beam? Does this look serious enough to stop sailing and fix it right away, or can it wait a bit? Cheers, Alex.

While it does look like you have a serious structural problem with your mast support, the dreaded beam usually refers to a steel beam under the cabin sole that has rusted out. John From: Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 3:07 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Alex Kunadze included below] Hi, I was waking around the cabin of my Cal 29 this morning when I noticed that what I thought was just peeling paint around the forward hatch was actually looking more like a cracked fiberglass. I prodded it with a screw driver and it definitely felt like a crack, although I was hesitant to really dig into it. Here's a couple of pictures of it looking aft from the v-berth. What do you think? Is this a sign of the disintegrating beam? Does this look serious enough to stop sailing and fix it right away, or can it wait a bit? Cheers, Alex.

I understand that. My thinking was that a rusted beam that gives way would result in more stress on the cabin roof, hence the crack. Could anything else have caused this, maybe rotten deck core? Come to think of it, the hatch looks pretty flimsy, although I couldn't find any obvious leaks. Hmm... I can feel the sailing season slipping away... Cheers, Alex. On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > While it does look like you have a serious structural problem with your > mast support, the dreaded beam usually refers to a steel beam under the > cabin sole that has rusted out. > > John > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, February 11, 2013 3:07 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? [2 > Attachments] > > > Hi, > > I was waking around the cabin of my Cal 29 this morning when I noticed > that what I thought was just peeling paint around the forward hatch was > actually looking more like a cracked fiberglass. I prodded it with a screw > driver and it definitely felt like a crack, although I was hesitant to > really dig into it. Here's a couple of pictures of it looking aft from the > v-berth. What do you think? Is this a sign of the disintegrating beam? Does > this look serious enough to stop sailing and fix it right away, or can it > wait a bit? > > Cheers, > Alex. > > > >

Hi Alex, I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is collapsing. Regards, Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: kr… [at] gmail.com Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:07:41 -0800 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Alex Kunadze included below] Hi, I was waking around the cabin of my Cal 29 this morning when I noticed that what I thought was just peeling paint around the forward hatch was actually looking more like a cracked fiberglass. I prodded it with a screw driver and it definitely felt like a crack, although I was hesitant to really dig into it. Here's a couple of pictures of it looking aft from the v-berth. What do you think? Is this a sign of the disintegrating beam? Does this look serious enough to stop sailing and fix it right away, or can it wait a bit? Cheers,Alex.

Hi, All. I have a question (so what else is new). With the keel stepped mast in the CAL 29 (unlike the deck stepped in the 25), would a sag/rot in the dreaded abeam also result in a sag at deck level? Is the mast attached at all at deck level or does it just pass through the deck? Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kool Beans Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:09 AM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? Hi Alex, I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is collapsing. Regards, Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: kr… [at] gmail.com Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:07:41 -0800 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Alex Kunadze included below] Hi, I was waking around the cabin of my Cal 29 this morning when I noticed that what I thought was just peeling paint around the forward hatch was actually looking more like a cracked fiberglass. I prodded it with a screw driver and it definitely felt like a crack, although I was hesitant to really dig into it. Here's a couple of pictures of it looking aft from the v-berth. What do you think? Is this a sign of the disintegrating beam? Does this look serious enough to stop sailing and fix it right away, or can it wait a bit? Cheers, Alex.

As far as I know, Cal 29s all have deck stepped masts (mine certainly does). Hence the deck crack. On Feb 12, 2013 12:39 PM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" < hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, All. I have a question (so what else is new). With the keel > stepped mast in the CAL 29 (unlike the deck stepped in the 25), would a > sag/rot in the dreaded abeam also result in a sag at deck level? Is the > mast attached at all at deck level or does it just pass through the deck?* > *** > > ** ** > > Thanks**** > > Charlie**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Kool Beans > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:09 AM > *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam > replacement?**** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > Hi Alex, > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is collapsing. > > Regards, > > Jim Ives - Kool Beans > Rochester, NY > > **** > ------------------------------ > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: kr… [at] gmail.com > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:07:41 -0800 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? [2 > Attachments] > > **** > > *[Attachment(s) <#13cd0220f3392a32_TopText> from Alex Kunadze included > below]* Hi,**** > > ** ** > > I was waking around the cabin of my Cal 29 this morning when I noticed > that what I thought was just peeling paint around the forward hatch was > actually looking more like a cracked fiberglass. I prodded it with a screw > driver and it definitely felt like a crack, although I was hesitant to > really dig into it. Here's a couple of pictures of it looking aft from the > v-berth. What do you think? Is this a sign of the disintegrating beam? Does > this look serious enough to stop sailing and fix it right away, or can it > wait a bit?**** > > ** ** > > Cheers,**** > > Alex.**** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > **** > >

Is this a Cal - 29 or a Cal 2-29? The 29 I've seen pictures of is this 2-29: http://www.mariposasailing.com/Replacement.html The mast is deck stepped. The downward force from the mast is transferred by the wood post down to the steel I-beam. The shrouds are attached to the beam using the bulkheads on either side. This makes all the compressive and tensile loads being taken by these structures tied together. The OPs boat has more of a box structure on the overhead that is not in the 2-29 pictures. Was there a model of the 29 that didn't use the beam and used a reinforced part of the deck to take the loads? There are many other boats built that way. From: Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:17 PM Subject: RE: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? As far as I know, Cal 29s all have deck stepped masts (mine certainly does). Hence the deck crack. On Feb 12, 2013 12:39 PM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > >Hi, All. I have a question (so what else is new). With the keel stepped mast in the CAL 29 (unlike the deck stepped in the 25), would a sag/rot in the dreaded abeam also result in a sag at deck level? Is the mast attached at all at deck level or does it just pass through the deck? > >Thanks >Charlie > > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kool Beans >Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:09 AM >To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? > > > > > >Hi Alex, > >I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is collapsing. > >Regards, > >Jim Ives - Kool Beans >Rochester, NY > > > >________________________________ > >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >From: kr… [at] gmail.com >Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:07:41 -0800 >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? [2 Attachments] > > >[Attachment(s) from Alex Kunadze included below]Hi, > >I was waking around the cabin of my Cal 29 this morning when I noticed that what I thought was just peeling paint around the forward hatch was actually looking more like a cracked fiberglass. I prodded it with a screw driver and it definitely felt like a crack, although I was hesitant to really dig into it. Here's a couple of pictures of it looking aft from the v-berth. What do you think? Is this a sign of the disintegrating beam? Does this look serious enough to stop sailing and fix it right away, or can it wait a bit? > >Cheers, >Alex. > > > > >

John, AFAIK, Cal 29 and 2-29 is the same boat with some minor differences in the cabin layout. At one point they were both produced at the same time, so I don't even know if my '74 is a 29 or a 2-29. That said, it looks exactly the same as the Mariposa, it's just that the pictures I took are from the head compartment looking aft (the same spot where you see the headpan cutout on Mariposa site), while on the site most pictures are looking forward from the cabin. The boxy structure you see at the top in my pictures is the forward hatch. Cheers, Alex. On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 2:44 PM, John Courter <ca… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Is this a Cal - 29 or a Cal 2-29? The 29 I've seen pictures of is this > 2-29: > > http://www.mariposasailing.com/Replacement.html > > The mast is deck stepped. The downward force from the mast is transferred > by the wood post down to the steel I-beam. The shrouds are attached to > the beam using the bulkheads on either side. This makes all the > compressive and tensile loads being taken by these structures tied together. > > The OPs boat has more of a box structure on the overhead that is not in > the 2-29 pictures. Was there a model of the 29 that didn't use the beam > and used a reinforced part of the deck to take the loads? There are many > other boats built that way. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:17 PM > *Subject:* RE: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam > replacement? > > > As far as I know, Cal 29s all have deck stepped masts (mine certainly > does). Hence the deck crack. > On Feb 12, 2013 12:39 PM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" < > hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > > ** > > Hi, All. I have a question (so what else is new). With the keel > stepped mast in the CAL 29 (unlike the deck stepped in the 25), would a > sag/rot in the dreaded abeam also result in a sag at deck level? Is the > mast attached at all at deck level or does it just pass through the deck?* > *** > ** ** > Thanks**** > Charlie**** > ** ** > ** ** > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Kool Beans > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:09 AM > *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam > replacement?**** > ** ** > > > > **** > Hi Alex, > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is collapsing. > > Regards, > > Jim Ives - Kool Beans > Rochester, NY > > **** > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: kr… [at] gmail.com > Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:07:41 -0800 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? [2 > Attachments] > > **** > *[Attachment(s)<http://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#13cd0220f3392a32_TopText>from Alex Kunadze included below] > * Hi,**** > ** ** > I was waking around the cabin of my Cal 29 this morning when I noticed > that what I thought was just peeling paint around the forward hatch was > actually looking more like a cracked fiberglass. I prodded it with a screw > driver and it definitely felt like a crack, although I was hesitant to > really dig into it. Here's a couple of pictures of it looking aft from the > v-berth. What do you think? Is this a sign of the disintegrating beam? Does > this look serious enough to stop sailing and fix it right away, or can it > wait a bit?**** > ** ** > Cheers,**** > Alex.**** > ** ** > > > > **** > **** > > > > >

I was chuckling at the "dreaded beam." We all know what it means, and it means a pain-in-the-butt job. But maybe we should adopt a less scary term, one that doesn't frighten off newbies or potential Cal sailors. I chuckle because when working with wooden boats, we regard them as modular--you can replace parts as they fail. You can replace frames, planks, floors, knees, whatever gives up. On the other hand, we get all spoiled when it comes to our plastic boats. We act as though all they require is a quick hose-down in the spring and the occasional coat of bottom paint. Maybe we should view this problem as an opportunity to display skill and craftsmanship--like spiling a new plank on the wooden boat. Chris Campbell Whose boat lacks, luckily, the dreaded beam.

Point taken. Although I'm a newbie and seeing that term in the past didn't scare me off :) On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > I was chuckling at the "dreaded beam." We all know what it means, and > it means a pain-in-the-butt job. But maybe we should adopt a less scary > term, one that doesn't frighten off newbies or potential Cal sailors. I > chuckle because when working with wooden boats, we regard them as > modular--you can replace parts as they fail. You can replace frames, > planks, floors, knees, whatever gives up. On the other hand, we get all > spoiled when it comes to our plastic boats. We act as though all they > require is a quick hose-down in the spring and the occasional coat of > bottom paint. > > Maybe we should view this problem as an opportunity to display skill and > craftsmanship--like spiling a new plank on the wooden boat. > > Chris Campbell > Whose boat lacks, luckily, the dreaded beam. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

I get your drift, Chris, but that there beam can sure spile your day. At least the beams on the CAL 25 are overhead and "easily" replaceable (even though they are typically not the initial source of the sagging problem). Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:37 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? I was chuckling at the "dreaded beam." We all know what it means, and it means a pain-in-the-butt job. But maybe we should adopt a less scary term, one that doesn't frighten off newbies or potential Cal sailors. I chuckle because when working with wooden boats, we regard them as modular--you can replace parts as they fail. You can replace frames, planks, floors, knees, whatever gives up. On the other hand, we get all spoiled when it comes to our plastic boats. We act as though all they require is a quick hose-down in the spring and the occasional coat of bottom paint. Maybe we should view this problem as an opportunity to display skill and craftsmanship--like spiling a new plank on the wooden boat. Chris Campbell Whose boat lacks, luckily, the dreaded beam. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

On 2/13/2013 4:56 PM, Alex Kunadze wrote: > > > Point taken. Although I'm a newbie and seeing that term in the past > didn't scare me off :) I come from a slightly older (wow, maybe much older) time when kids had shop class in grade school (all kids in my school learned mechanical drawing, made a working electric motor from steel and copper wire, made tin scoops, boxes, and funnels, used a wood lathe, and built and finished various wood projects in 7th and 8th grades) and when we had dads and neighbors who showed us how to work with wood, to replace the points and set the timing on an engine and how to replace the brakes on the car. I remember the name of the guy (Bob Young from Alabama) who showed me how to replace a carburetor gasket properly when I was 8 years old. My 7th and 8th grade shop teacher, Mr. Sonnevil, is still alive and in his 90s. Every time I use some knowledge he taught, I think about him. My brothers grin and say the same thing. But because all of us had some exposure to how things are made and fixed (and many of us enjoyed it), we were typically less intimidated by hands-on projects. I'm still amused at the wealthy neighbor who endured his trailer coupling popping off his hitch when he towed his jet boat. It was annoying and dangerous but his plan was to take it in the the marina to have somebody figure it out, some day. The fix required one wrench and a couple turns on one nut. But it also required not assuming that a problem was too difficult to understand and to fix. So my point is that if we make things seem more mysterious and difficult than they really are, we scare people away. I worry that too many people think of sailing as an activity that requires a huge initial cash outlay to buy one of those 45 foot daysailers that are all the rage in the boating magazines now. For goodness' sake, there's a huge glut of sound, functional fiberglass sailboats out there that are CHEAP and just require some hands-on labor. My $900 Cal 20 has been paying me back for about 14 years, almost as long ago as when the guy with the trailer hitch problem described his plans to buy a sailing yacht "some day." Well, maybe so, but he's missed 14 years of sailing since then and he still doesn't have a boat. Chris Campbell

On 2/13/2013 5:15 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > I get your drift, Chris, but that there beam can sure spile your day. I just think we can have higher expectations for sailors than for ordinary humans. The news about the driftng, powerless cruise ship makes me grin. No air conditioning, no cabin toilets, sandwiches for food. Gee, that's what we do for fun! Maybe there is a difference--we also get wet & cold. So if we are tough enough to get wet & cold for fun, we ought to be able to tackle a repair job, especially if it gives us the privilege of enjoying sailing--one of life's miracles--at a price we can afford. Chris > >

The day I came home after sailing my 1974 Cal 29 into her new home in Berkeley I decided to scour the web for images, and of course I came across a bunch of images and blog posts about "The Dreaded BEAM!" At first yes, it scared the shit out of me, like what have I gotten myself into. I called the guy who surveyed my boat and he basically said "yes, it's something you can fix down the line, but unless you're going around the farallones and/or if you see actual evidence of compression, don't worry about it." And after talking to folks on this group, I have confidence I can manage the repair myself. My main issue is the time it'll take so for now I'm just sailing the hell out of it and keeping an eye on it. FYI, for "fun" I talked to someone at KKMI and they said they did a similar job for just under 10k. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris Campbell wrote: > > I was chuckling at the "dreaded beam." We all know what it means, and > it means a pain-in-the-butt job. But maybe we should adopt a less scary > term, one that doesn't frighten off newbies or potential Cal sailors. I > chuckle because when working with wooden boats, we regard them as > modular--you can replace parts as they fail. You can replace frames, > planks, floors, knees, whatever gives up. On the other hand, we get all > spoiled when it comes to our plastic boats. We act as though all they > require is a quick hose-down in the spring and the occasional coat of > bottom paint. > > Maybe we should view this problem as an opportunity to display skill and > craftsmanship--like spiling a new plank on the wooden boat. > > Chris Campbell > Whose boat lacks, luckily, the dreaded beam. >

That was pretty much my experience as well, except that I had the "oh shit" moment before buying the boat, so it wasn't that scary. I'm confident I can do the repair myself, but I also know it'll take a lot of time and the "dreaded" part is missing out on all the sailing in the meantime. Paying 10K for that is not really an option, it'll be more than the boat is worth. Now, can the good readers recommend a professional I could call to the boat to assess the damage? I need to decide if it has to be repaired right away, or if it can wait till next winter and I just don't have the knowledge/experience to do that. The boat is on SF Bay, Coyote Point harbor in San Mateo, CA. Cheers, Alex. On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:07 PM, theredthread <ja… [at] mac.com> wrote: > ** > > > The day I came home after sailing my 1974 Cal 29 into her new home in > Berkeley I decided to scour the web for images, and of course I came across > a bunch of images and blog posts about "The Dreaded BEAM!" At first yes, it > scared the shit out of me, like what have I gotten myself into. I called > the guy who surveyed my boat and he basically said "yes, it's something you > can fix down the line, but unless you're going around the farallones and/or > if you see actual evidence of compression, don't worry about it." > > And after talking to folks on this group, I have confidence I can manage > the repair myself. My main issue is the time it'll take so for now I'm just > sailing the hell out of it and keeping an eye on it. > > FYI, for "fun" I talked to someone at KKMI and they said they did a > similar job for just under 10k. > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris Campbell wrote: > > > > I was chuckling at the "dreaded beam." We all know what it means, and > > it means a pain-in-the-butt job. But maybe we should adopt a less scary > > term, one that doesn't frighten off newbies or potential Cal sailors. I > > chuckle because when working with wooden boats, we regard them as > > modular--you can replace parts as they fail. You can replace frames, > > planks, floors, knees, whatever gives up. On the other hand, we get all > > spoiled when it comes to our plastic boats. We act as though all they > > require is a quick hose-down in the spring and the occasional coat of > > bottom paint. > > > > Maybe we should view this problem as an opportunity to display skill and > > craftsmanship--like spiling a new plank on the wooden boat. > > > > Chris Campbell > > Whose boat lacks, luckily, the dreaded beam. > > > > >