Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla

Alex offered: > AFAIK, Cal 29 and 2-29 is the same boat with some minor differences in the cabin layout. Here are the major differences as I understand them: Cal 29: head and sink to port, hanging locker to starboard, starboard quarterberth, tiller Cal 29-2: head sink to starboard, no starboard quarterberth, wheel steering Both have deck-stepped masts. (Roger Jones was planning a keel-stepped carbon fiber mast for Swiss Navy, but that was definitely a departure from factory specs.) Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"

Well, then I have a 29, except that the only sink I have is in the galley, which is to starboard. On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: > ** > > > Alex offered:**** > > ** ** > > > AFAIK, Cal 29 and 2-29 is the same boat with some minor differences in > the cabin layout.**** > > ** ** > > Here are the major differences as I understand them:**** > > ** ** > > Cal 29: head and sink to port, hanging locker to starboard, starboard > quarterberth, tiller**** > > Cal 29-2: head sink to starboard, no starboard quarterberth, wheel steering > **** > > ** ** > > Both have deck-stepped masts. (Roger Jones was planning a keel-stepped > carbon fiber mast for Swiss Navy, but that was definitely a departure from > factory specs.)**** > > ** ** > > Alfred Poor**** > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”**** > > ** ** > > >

According to my drawings, the 1968 (Cal)ifornia 29, has a quarter both port and starboard quarter berths, the head is starboard, there is no wash sink on the port side, but there is a hanging locker directly across on starboard. There is no hand held shower. There is tiller steering and an atomic 4. The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Mainsheet traveler to stern behind the rudder post. Where as the 2-29 (Hull # 918 1976) layout is not on my set of pdf drawings, also has two quarter berths port and starboard. Wheel steering, head on port and wash basin on starboard, along with hand held shower(removed). The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Powered by a 12 hp diesel farymann. Mainsheet traveler a head of the wheel. In about 1977, what I believe is the 3-29 has a quarter berth on the port and ice box and sink cabinetry on starboard blocking off the quarter. There is the wash sink on starboard. Additionally, there is a berth between the stove and the main bulkhead and directly across from the galley table. This version comes with wheel steering unlike the 29. When I have a chance I will pull out the hard copy and check against the pdf. It would be great to see all of the variations. Maybe you can post some pictures of the boat described below, since it is different from the drawings. Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Kunadze To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla Well, then I have a 29, except that the only sink I have is in the galley, which is to starboard. On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: Alex offered: > AFAIK, Cal 29 and 2-29 is the same boat with some minor differences in the cabin layout. Here are the major differences as I understand them: Cal 29: head and sink to port, hanging locker to starboard, starboard quarterberth, tiller Cal 29-2: head sink to starboard, no starboard quarterberth, wheel steering Both have deck-stepped masts. (Roger Jones was planning a keel-stepped carbon fiber mast for Swiss Navy, but that was definitely a departure from factory specs.) Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

I wonder if that sink across from the head was commonly added afterwords, or in quite a few of the models? Our original brochure (1968-1970ish) has a picture of a sink being there. I understand (3rd-4th hand) lot of owners covered the small hand sink that was directly across from the head in the old Cal 2-29's and 2-30's. If that space is a hanging locker, look at the hull below it and you may very well find a through hole which was the drain for the sink. First time under the counter that was in our hanging locker I saw the sink still there which had been covered over to make the counter. Took a while to convince the wife that it was better as a counter than convert it back to the 2nd sink on a 30ft sailboat. As I understand the Cal 29's were pretty much the same all around as the 30's with a shorter transom. Maybe the 30's had a sink & the 29's did not? Maybe it was a variation on both? Sounds like the very same layout on our 2-30 except the traveler is across the transom at the rear of the cockpit. The other item which may have been a variation out of the factory which I was not aware of until I looked at the old brochures (motivated by this thread) was the wheel vs. tiller. I understand that our 2-30 had a wheel originally and it was pulled out & replaced by a tiller. We have the wheel in the garage (from the prev owner) and there is a patch on the cockpit deck where it was, so I know it was there. Most 29's and 30's I see either have a wheel or in the cases of a tiller, the owner had specifically pulled the wheel out to put a tiller in. But the old brochure I have shows a picture of the cockpit clearly having a tiller as well as the underway photo with her being steered by tiller. Just thinking out loud... Cheers - Dyer Honu, 1969 Cal 2-30, #87 / SF Bay, CA. From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:49 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla According to my drawings, the 1968 (Cal)ifornia 29, has a quarter both port and starboard quarter berths, the head is starboard, there is no wash sink on the port side, but there is a hanging locker directly across on starboard. There is no hand held shower. There is tiller steering and an atomic 4. The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Mainsheet traveler to stern behind the rudder post. Where as the 2-29 (Hull # 918 1976) layout is not on my set of pdf drawings, also has two quarter berths port and starboard. Wheel steering, head on port and wash basin on starboard, along with hand held shower(removed). The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Powered by a 12 hp diesel farymann. Mainsheet traveler a head of the wheel. In about 1977, what I believe is the 3-29 has a quarter berth on the port and ice box and sink cabinetry on starboard blocking off the quarter. There is the wash sink on starboard. Additionally, there is a berth between the stove and the main bulkhead and directly across from the galley table. This version comes with wheel steering unlike the 29. When I have a chance I will pull out the hard copy and check against the pdf. It would be great to see all of the variations. Maybe you can post some pictures of the boat described below, since it is different from the drawings. Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. >From:Alex Kunadze >To:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent:Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:53 PM >Subject:Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla > > >Well, then I have a 29, except that the only sink I have is in the galley, which is to starboard. >On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: > >Alex offered: > >>AFAIK, Cal 29 and 2-29 is the same boat with some minor differences in the cabin layout. > >Here are the major differences as I understand them: > >Cal 29: head and sink to port, hanging locker to starboard, starboard quarterberth, tiller >Cal 29-2: head sink to starboard, no starboard quarterberth, wheel steering > >Both have deck-stepped masts. (Roger Jones was planning a keel-stepped carbon fiber mast for Swiss Navy, but that was definitely a departure from factory specs.) > >Alfred Poor >1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ PG&E is committed to protecting our customers' privacy. To learn more, please visit http://www.pge.com/about/company/privacy/customer/

I have to respond to this comparison of the 29 and 30, they couldn't be more different, especially in handling and hull configuration..look at sailboatdata.com and compare the fin keel of the 29, it's prop location vis-a-vis the rudder, the slower style more-for-cruising keel shape on the 30, it takes an acre to turn the 30. the basic cal 29's (not 2- and 3- s) came with the head, no head compartment sink and the exception to this was custom orders,such as one which had the tabbing doubled on the two bulkheads to the roof (currently in Half Moon Bay) by the commissioning broker. My 1974 basic 29 had a wet (hanging)locker on starbd opposite the head as original configuration. It also had a small drain port in the floor of the pan(if a shower "could" be used and a similar hole in the wet locker for drainage. As does the cal 36 for drainage though showers were not necessarily installed either. In the 36, they made a gap between the cabinet frontwall of the lockers to let water drain into the main pans. They came with tillers, unless upgraded (2's, 3's) to more features, such as wheel steering, second sink, shower head, etc.. And, there are quite a few locations for the traveler on a 29..few were mounted aft, most forward just near the companionway hatch (legbreakers) at different distances from the hatch for the tiller models.the throttle/shift controls usually on port near the mount and the gauges,etc panel on starbd also near the traveler. as for sailing, the 29 slices through the water, the 30 bashes. try staying dry even in light airs in SF Bay in a 30. the splashes hit the boat, wrap up over the cockpit, wrap around the coaming and gets you and everyone in the cockpit from the rear as well, as it has a rear bridge deck, unlike the quick-draining cockpit of the 29. I felt the 30 was more like the Westsail in hull shape and speed, maybe more ocean going, and maybe more cruising comfort, but the 29 more than compensates for any related challenges by it's hull speed, manueverability, and even layout.Helen From: Dylan Crouch <dy… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, February 14, 2013 8:08:35 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla I wonder if that sink across from the head was commonly added afterwords, or in quite a few of the models? Our original brochure (1968-1970ish) has a picture of a sink being there. I understand (3rd-4th hand) lot of owners covered the small hand sink that was directly across from the head in the old Cal 2-29's and 2-30's. If that space is a hanging locker, look at the hull below it and you may very well find a through hole which was the drain for the sink. First time under the counter that was in our hanging locker I saw the sink still there which had been covered over to make the counter. Took a while to convince the wife that it was better as a counter than convert it back to the 2nd sink on a 30ft sailboat. As I understand the Cal 29's were pretty much the same all around as the 30's with a shorter transom. Maybe the 30's had a sink & the 29's did not? Maybe it was a variation on both? Sounds like the very same layout on our 2-30 except the traveler is across the transom at the rear of the cockpit. The other item which may have been a variation out of the factory which I was not aware of until I looked at the old brochures (motivated by this thread) was the wheel vs. tiller. I understand that our 2-30 had a wheel originally and it was pulled out & replaced by a tiller. We have the wheel in the garage (from the prev owner) and there is a patch on the cockpit deck where it was, so I know it was there. Most 29's and 30's I see either have a wheel or in the cases of a tiller, the owner had specifically pulled the wheel out to put a tiller in. But the old brochure I have shows a picture of the cockpit clearly having a tiller as well as the underway photo with her being steered by tiller. Just thinking out loud... Cheers - Dyer Honu, 1969 Cal 2-30, #87 / SF Bay, CA. From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:49 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla According to my drawings, the 1968 (Cal)ifornia 29, has a quarter both port and starboard quarter berths, the head is starboard, there is no wash sink on the port side, but there is a hanging locker directly across on starboard. There is no hand held shower. There is tiller steering and an atomic 4. The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Mainsheet traveler to stern behind the rudder post. Where as the 2-29 (Hull # 918 1976) layout is not on my set of pdf drawings, also has two quarter berths port and starboard. Wheel steering, head on port and wash basin on starboard, along with hand held shower(removed). The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Powered by a 12 hp diesel farymann. Mainsheet traveler a head of the wheel. In about 1977, what I believe is the 3-29 has a quarter berth on the port and ice box and sink cabinetry on starboard blocking off the quarter. There is the wash sink on starboard. Additionally, there is a berth between the stove and the main bulkhead and directly across from the galley table. This version comes with wheel steering unlike the 29. When I have a chance I will pull out the hard copy and check against the pdf. It would be great to see all of the variations. Maybe you can post some pictures of the boat described below, since it is different from the drawings. Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. >From:Alex Kunadze >To:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent:Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:53 PM >Subject:Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla > > >Well, then I have a 29, except that the only sink I have is in the galley, which >is to starboard. >On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: > >Alex offered: > >>AFAIK, Cal 29 and 2-29 is the same boat with some minor differences in the cabin >>layout. > >Here are the major differences as I understand them: > >Cal 29: head and sink to port, hanging locker to starboard, starboard >quarterberth, tiller >Cal 29-2: head sink to starboard, no starboard quarterberth, wheel steering > >Both have deck-stepped masts. (Roger Jones was planning a keel-stepped carbon >fiber mast for Swiss Navy, but that was definitely a departure from factory >specs.) > >Alfred Poor >1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 8007 (20130213) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ PG&E is committed to protecting our customers' privacy. To learn more, please visit http://www.pge.com/about/company/privacy/customer/

What about interior wood? My 2-29 is teak and Stans 29 was mahogany. Is this indicative of model or availability? Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: Helen Horn To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla I have to respond to this comparison of the 29 and 30, they couldn't be more different, especially in handling and hull configuration..look at sailboatdata.com and compare the fin keel of the 29, it's prop location vis-a-vis the rudder, the slower style more-for-cruising keel shape on the 30, it takes an acre to turn the 30. the basic cal 29's (not 2- and 3- s) came with the head, no head compartment sink and the exception to this was custom orders,such as one which had the tabbing doubled on the two bulkheads to the roof (currently in Half Moon Bay) by the commissioning broker. My 1974 basic 29 had a wet (hanging)locker on starbd opposite the head as original configuration. It also had a small drain port in the floor of the pan(if a shower "could" be used and a similar hole in the wet locker for drainage. As does the cal 36 for drainage though showers were not necessarily installed either. In the 36, they made a gap between the cabinet frontwall of the lockers to let water drain into the main pans. They came with tillers, unless upgraded (2's, 3's) to more features, such as wheel steering, second sink, shower head, etc.. And, there are quite a few locations for the traveler on a 29..few were mounted aft, most forward just near the companionway hatch (legbreakers) at different distances from the hatch for the tiller models.the throttle/shift controls usually on port near the mount and the gauges,etc panel on starbd also near the traveler. as for sailing, the 29 slices through the water, the 30 bashes. try staying dry even in light airs in SF Bay in a 30. the splashes hit the boat, wrap up over the cockpit, wrap around the coaming and gets you and everyone in the cockpit from the rear as well, as it has a rear bridge deck, unlike the quick-draining cockpit of the 29. I felt the 30 was more like the Westsail in hull shape and speed, maybe more ocean going, and maybe more cruising comfort, but the 29 more than compensates for any related challenges by it's hull speed, manueverability, and even layout.Helen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dylan Crouch <dy… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, February 14, 2013 8:08:35 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla I wonder if that sink across from the head was commonly added afterwords, or in quite a few of the models? Our original brochure (1968-1970ish) has a picture of a sink being there. I understand (3rd-4th hand) lot of owners covered the small hand sink that was directly across from the head in the old Cal 2-29's and 2-30's. If that space is a hanging locker, look at the hull below it and you may very well find a through hole which was the drain for the sink. First time under the counter that was in our hanging locker I saw the sink still there which had been covered over to make the counter. Took a while to convince the wife that it was better as a counter than convert it back to the 2nd sink on a 30ft sailboat. As I understand the Cal 29's were pretty much the same all around as the 30's with a shorter transom. Maybe the 30's had a sink & the 29's did not? Maybe it was a variation on both? Sounds like the very same layout on our 2-30 except the traveler is across the transom at the rear of the cockpit. The other item which may have been a variation out of the factory which I was not aware of until I looked at the old brochures (motivated by this thread) was the wheel vs. tiller. I understand that our 2-30 had a wheel originally and it was pulled out & replaced by a tiller. We have the wheel in the garage (from the prev owner) and there is a patch on the cockpit deck where it was, so I know it was there. Most 29's and 30's I see either have a wheel or in the cases of a tiller, the owner had specifically pulled the wheel out to put a tiller in. But the old brochure I have shows a picture of the cockpit clearly having a tiller as well as the underway photo with her being steered by tiller. Just thinking out loud... Cheers - Dyer Honu, 1969 Cal 2-30, #87 / SF Bay, CA. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:49 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla According to my drawings, the 1968 (Cal)ifornia 29, has a quarter both port and starboard quarter berths, the head is starboard, there is no wash sink on the port side, but there is a hanging locker directly across on starboard. There is no hand held shower. There is tiller steering and an atomic 4. The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Mainsheet traveler to stern behind the rudder post. Where as the 2-29 (Hull # 918 1976) layout is not on my set of pdf drawings, also has two quarter berths port and starboard. Wheel steering, head on port and wash basin on starboard, along with hand held shower(removed). The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Powered by a 12 hp diesel farymann. Mainsheet traveler a head of the wheel. In about 1977, what I believe is the 3-29 has a quarter berth on the port and ice box and sink cabinetry on starboard blocking off the quarter. There is the wash sink on starboard. Additionally, there is a berth between the stove and the main bulkhead and directly across from the galley table. This version comes with wheel steering unlike the 29. When I have a chance I will pull out the hard copy and check against the pdf. It would be great to see all of the variations. Maybe you can post some pictures of the boat described below, since it is different from the drawings. Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Kunadze To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla Well, then I have a 29, except that the only sink I have is in the galley, which is to starboard. On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: Alex offered: > AFAIK, Cal 29 and 2-29 is the same boat with some minor differences in the cabin layout. Here are the major differences as I understand them: Cal 29: head and sink to port, hanging locker to starboard, starboard quarterberth, tiller Cal 29-2: head sink to starboard, no starboard quarterberth, wheel steering Both have deck-stepped masts. (Roger Jones was planning a keel-stepped carbon fiber mast for Swiss Navy, but that was definitely a departure from factory specs.) Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ PG&E is committed to protecting our customers' privacy. To learn more, please visit http://www.pge.com/about/company/privacy/customer/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8011 (20130214) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8011 (20130214) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

On 2/14/2013 2:09 PM, Helen Horn wrote: > > > I have to respond to this comparison of the 29 and 30, they couldn't > be more different, especially in handling and hull configuration..look > at sailboatdata.com and compare the fin keel of the 29, it's prop > location vis-a-vis the rudder, the slower style more-for-cruising keel > shape on the 30, it takes an acre to turn the 30. This makes me grin. I learned early sailing skills on a S&S "Rainbow," a 24' fin-keeled, spade-ruddered sail training vessel designed for the Annapolis Sailing School. I remember it as a very good boat. When you wanted to come about, you gave the tiller a little poke to leeward and the boat turned around. Then I started sailing on my old Seafarer Polaris, a Tripp (the elder) keel-centerboard vessel with a low-aspect mainsail and a long keel and keel-hung rudder. My brother and I and friends went out sailing one night and as dusk fell we found ourselves among stakes driven in to mark a dredging project. Hey, let's get outta here. So I poked the tiller over to leeward. The boat headed up a little bit and went into irons. Oh. So we fell off and I tried it again. Same effect. So gradually it dawned on me that with this boat, you gathered speed, made a nice graceful long arc of a turn, and it would work. Long keel, long turn. Chris Campbell

Chris, Annapolis Sailing School still uses the Rainbows. They do look a bit tired. Also, it was an early bulb keel. Wasn’t there another version of the same boat without the little cabin? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:31 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla On 2/14/2013 2:09 PM, Helen Horn wrote: I have to respond to this comparison of the 29 and 30, they couldn't be more different, especially in handling and hull configuration..look at sailboatdata.com and compare the fin keel of the 29, it's prop location vis-a-vis the rudder, the slower style more-for-cruising keel shape on the 30, it takes an acre to turn the 30. This makes me grin. I learned early sailing skills on a S&S "Rainbow," a 24' fin-keeled, spade-ruddered sail training vessel designed for the Annapolis Sailing School. I remember it as a very good boat. When you wanted to come about, you gave the tiller a little poke to leeward and the boat turned around. Then I started sailing on my old Seafarer Polaris, a Tripp (the elder) keel-centerboard vessel with a low-aspect mainsail and a long keel and keel-hung rudder. My brother and I and friends went out sailing one night and as dusk fell we found ourselves among stakes driven in to mark a dredging project. Hey, let's get outta here. So I poked the tiller over to leeward. The boat headed up a little bit and went into irons. Oh. So we fell off and I tried it again. Same effect. So gradually it dawned on me that with this boat, you gathered speed, made a nice graceful long arc of a turn, and it would work. Long keel, long turn. Chris Campbell

The first boat that I actually owned was a Rainbow Weekender, which added a small cabin to the Rainbow. Leaving Annapolis in a driving rain storm on my first trip to Smith Island, our nighttime navigation technique was to sail to the middle of the Chesapeake Bay and follow the freighters. Those were simpler times. Harleigh Ewell From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:29 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla Chris, Annapolis Sailing School still uses the Rainbows. They do look a bit tired. Also, it was an early bulb keel. Wasn’t there another version of the same boat without the little cabin? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:31 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla On 2/14/2013 2:09 PM, Helen Horn wrote: I have to respond to this comparison of the 29 and 30, they couldn't be more different, especially in handling and hull configuration..look at sailboatdata.com and compare the fin keel of the 29, it's prop location vis-a-vis the rudder, the slower style more-for-cruising keel shape on the 30, it takes an acre to turn the 30. This makes me grin. I learned early sailing skills on a S&S "Rainbow," a 24' fin-keeled, spade-ruddered sail training vessel designed for the Annapolis Sailing School. I remember it as a very good boat. When you wanted to come about, you gave the tiller a little poke to leeward and the boat turned around. Then I started sailing on my old Seafarer Polaris, a Tripp (the elder) keel-centerboard vessel with a low-aspect mainsail and a long keel and keel-hung rudder. My brother and I and friends went out sailing one night and as dusk fell we found ourselves among stakes driven in to mark a dredging project. Hey, let's get outta here. So I poked the tiller over to leeward. The boat headed up a little bit and went into irons. Oh. So we fell off and I tried it again. Same effect. So gradually it dawned on me that with this boat, you gathered speed, made a nice graceful long arc of a turn, and it would work. Long keel, long turn. Chris Campbell

On 2/14/2013 4:28 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > Chris, Annapolis Sailing School still uses the Rainbows. They do look > a bit tired. Also, it was an early bulb keel. > > Wasn’t there another version of the same boat without the little cabin? > There were two versions--the Rainbow, with the huge, deep, self-bailing cockpit--great for teaching nervous students--and the Weekender, the same hull with a larger cabin. Not large, mind you, but larger. The ones we used at the sailing school in Michigan (we had one of each) were not built to bullet-proof standards, shall we say. But from time to time I'll see one and have been surprised at how well they have held up given their sub-Cal construction. I remember thinking that it was odd that all boats didn't have bulb keels. And now I have a Cal 20 with an iron bulb. When I was a freshman in college, I was flying back to school after a vacation. At the old Willow Run Airport outside Detroit I saw a favorite high school teacher. He was flying back from Annapolis after inspecting the sailing school operation with an eye toward getting a Michigan franchise. He asked if I wanted a summer job. And by taking that job I changed my whole life by becoming a sailor. Bill Plum, the teacher, was a bit of a bon vivant, a good teacher, and a guy to whom I've been forever grateful. He was killed in his British sports car (MG??) one night when a guy who had worked an extra long shift at the hospital fell asleep and hit him head-on. I never had a chance to thank him. It's one of the few regrets I harbor. I'm weeping a bit as I type this. Chris

On 2/14/2013 4:45 PM, Harleigh Ewell wrote: > > > The first boat that I actually owned was a Rainbow Weekender, which > added a small cabin to the Rainbow. Leaving Annapolis in a driving > rain storm on my first trip to Smith Island, our nighttime navigation > technique was to sail to the middle of the Chesapeake Bay and follow > the freighters. Those were simpler times. > But the boats were sweet sailers, weren't they? Chris Campbell > >

Yes they were. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:47 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla On 2/14/2013 4:45 PM, Harleigh Ewell wrote: The first boat that I actually owned was a Rainbow Weekender, which added a small cabin to the Rainbow. Leaving Annapolis in a driving rain storm on my first trip to Smith Island, our nighttime navigation technique was to sail to the middle of the Chesapeake Bay and follow the freighters. Those were simpler times. But the boats were sweet sailers, weren't they? Chris Campbell

I wasn’t sure whether the cabin model or the non-cabin model was the plain Rainbow. Did the Rainbow bulb keel precede the CAL 20? They apparently were not longitudinally very strong. I know a guy who had one crack in half across the beam while he was racing it. They were a one design racing fleet in Annapolis many years ago. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harleigh Ewell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:46 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla The first boat that I actually owned was a Rainbow Weekender, which added a small cabin to the Rainbow. Leaving Annapolis in a driving rain storm on my first trip to Smith Island, our nighttime navigation technique was to sail to the middle of the Chesapeake Bay and follow the freighters. Those were simpler times. Harleigh Ewell From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:29 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla Chris, Annapolis Sailing School still uses the Rainbows. They do look a bit tired. Also, it was an early bulb keel. Wasn’t there another version of the same boat without the little cabin? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:31 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla On 2/14/2013 2:09 PM, Helen Horn wrote: I have to respond to this comparison of the 29 and 30, they couldn't be more different, especially in handling and hull configuration..look at sailboatdata.com and compare the fin keel of the 29, it's prop location vis-a-vis the rudder, the slower style more-for-cruising keel shape on the 30, it takes an acre to turn the 30. This makes me grin. I learned early sailing skills on a S&S "Rainbow," a 24' fin-keeled, spade-ruddered sail training vessel designed for the Annapolis Sailing School. I remember it as a very good boat. When you wanted to come about, you gave the tiller a little poke to leeward and the boat turned around. Then I started sailing on my old Seafarer Polaris, a Tripp (the elder) keel-centerboard vessel with a low-aspect mainsail and a long keel and keel-hung rudder. My brother and I and friends went out sailing one night and as dusk fell we found ourselves among stakes driven in to mark a dredging project. Hey, let's get outta here. So I poked the tiller over to leeward. The boat headed up a little bit and went into irons. Oh. So we fell off and I tried it again. Same effect. So gradually it dawned on me that with this boat, you gathered speed, made a nice graceful long arc of a turn, and it would work. Long keel, long turn. Chris Campbell

On 2/14/2013 4:58 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > I wasn’t sure whether the cabin model or the non-cabin model was the > plain Rainbow. Did the Rainbow bulb keel precede the CAL 20? > As I recall, Nat Herreshoff designed fin-keeled boats with bulbs. I'm guessing that the Cal 20 design came first but do not know when the Rainbow was designed. Let's look at the S&S website--turns out the Rainbow came along in 1961: > http://sparkmanstephens.blogspot.com/2011/10/design-1701-rainbow-class.html The Cal 20 was designed in 1960. > They apparently were not longitudinally very strong. I know a guy who > had one crack in half across the beam while he was racing it. They > were a one design racing fleet in Annapolis many years ago. > Not very strong, period. Or to be more flattering, "lightly built." But I still recall the one we had at the sailing school being pleasant to sail. Chris > > Cheers > > Charlie > > *From:*Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Harleigh Ewell > *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:46 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded > beam repla > > > > > The first boat that I actually owned was a Rainbow Weekender, which > added a small cabin to the Rainbow. Leaving Annapolis in a driving > rain storm on my first trip to Smith Island, our nighttime navigation > technique was to sail to the middle of the Chesapeake Bay and follow > the freighters. Those were simpler times. > > Harleigh Ewell > > *From:*Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) > *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:29 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded > beam repla > > Chris, Annapolis Sailing School still uses the Rainbows. They do look > a bit tired. Also, it was an early bulb keel. > > Wasn’t there another version of the same boat without the little cabin? > > Cheers > > Charlie > > *From:*Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Campbell > *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:31 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam > repla > > > > > On 2/14/2013 2:09 PM, Helen Horn wrote: > > I have to respond to this comparison of the 29 and 30, they > couldn't be more different, especially in handling and hull > configuration..look at sailboatdata.com and compare the fin keel > of the 29, it's prop location vis-a-vis the rudder, the slower > style more-for-cruising keel shape on the 30, it takes an acre to > turn the 30. > > > This makes me grin. I learned early sailing skills on a S&S > "Rainbow," a 24' fin-keeled, spade-ruddered sail training vessel > designed for the Annapolis Sailing School. I remember it as a very > good boat. When you wanted to come about, you gave the tiller a little > poke to leeward and the boat turned around. Then I started sailing on > my old Seafarer Polaris, a Tripp (the elder) keel-centerboard vessel > with a low-aspect mainsail and a long keel and keel-hung rudder. My > brother and I and friends went out sailing one night and as dusk fell > we found ourselves among stakes driven in to mark a dredging project. > Hey, let's get outta here. So I poked the tiller over to leeward. > The boat headed up a little bit and went into irons. Oh. So we fell > off and I tried it again. Same effect. So gradually it dawned on me > that with this boat, you gathered speed, made a nice graceful long arc > of a turn, and it would work. Long keel, long turn. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > > > >

Mariposa has teak that was stained "Mahogany." Look close -- probably the case. Too busy this winter to be very active on this wonderful list. Love you guys. More later. Wilkie On Feb 14, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> wrote:  What about interior wood? My 2-29 is teak and Stans 29 was mahogany. Is this indicative of model or availability? Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. From: Helen Horn To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla I have to respond to this comparison of the 29 and 30, they couldn't be more different, especially in handling and hull configuration..look at sailboatdata.com and compare the fin keel of the 29, it's prop location vis-a-vis the rudder, the slower style more-for-cruising keel shape on the 30, it takes an acre to turn the 30. the basic cal 29's (not 2- and 3- s) came with the head, no head compartment sink and the exception to this was custom orders,such as one which had the tabbing doubled on the two bulkheads to the roof (currently in Half Moon Bay) by the commissioning broker. My 1974 basic 29 had a wet (hanging)locker on starbd opposite the head as original configuration. It also had a small drain port in the floor of the pan(if a shower "could" be used and a similar hole in the wet locker for drainage. As does the cal 36 for drainage though showers were not necessarily installed either. In the 36, they made a gap between the cabinet frontwall of the lockers to let water drain into the main pans. They came with tillers, unless upgraded (2's, 3's) to more features, such as wheel steering, second sink, shower head, etc.. And, there are quite a few locations for the traveler on a 29..few were mounted aft, most forward just near the companionway hatch (legbreakers) at different distances from the hatch for the tiller models.the throttle/shift controls usually on port near the mount and the gauges,etc panel on starbd also near the traveler. as for sailing, the 29 slices through the water, the 30 bashes. try staying dry even in light airs in SF Bay in a 30. the splashes hit the boat, wrap up over the cockpit, wrap around the coaming and gets you and everyone in the cockpit from the rear as well, as it has a rear bridge deck, unlike the quick-draining cockpit of the 29. I felt the 30 was more like the Westsail in hull shape and speed, maybe more ocean going, and maybe more cruising comfort, but the 29 more than compensates for any related challenges by it's hull speed, manueverability, and even layout.Helen From: Dylan Crouch <dy… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, February 14, 2013 8:08:35 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla I wonder if that sink across from the head was commonly added afterwords, or in quite a few of the models? Our original brochure (1968-1970ish) has a picture of a sink being there. I understand (3rd-4th hand) lot of owners covered the small hand sink that was directly across from the head in the old Cal 2-29's and 2-30's. If that space is a hanging locker, look at the hull below it and you may very well find a through hole which was the drain for the sink. First time under the counter that was in our hanging locker I saw the sink still there which had been covered over to make the counter. Took a while to convince the wife that it was better as a counter than convert it back to the 2nd sink on a 30ft sailboat. As I understand the Cal 29's were pretty much the same all around as the 30's with a shorter transom. Maybe the 30's had a sink & the 29's did not? Maybe it was a variation on both? Sounds like the very same layout on our 2-30 except the traveler is across the transom at the rear of the cockpit. The other item which may have been a variation out of the factory which I was not aware of until I looked at the old brochures (motivated by this thread) was the wheel vs. tiller. I understand that our 2-30 had a wheel originally and it was pulled out & replaced by a tiller. We have the wheel in the garage (from the prev owner) and there is a patch on the cockpit deck where it was, so I know it was there. Most 29's and 30's I see either have a wheel or in the cases of a tiller, the owner had specifically pulled the wheel out to put a tiller in. But the old brochure I have shows a picture of the cockpit clearly having a tiller as well as the underway photo with her being steered by tiller. Just thinking out loud... Cheers - Dyer Honu, 1969 Cal 2-30, #87 / SF Bay, CA. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:49 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla According to my drawings, the 1968 (Cal)ifornia 29, has a quarter both port and starboard quarter berths, the head is starboard, there is no wash sink on the port side, but there is a hanging locker directly across on starboard. There is no hand held shower. There is tiller steering and an atomic 4. The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Mainsheet traveler to stern behind the rudder post. Where as the 2-29 (Hull # 918 1976) layout is not on my set of pdf drawings, also has two quarter berths port and starboard. Wheel steering, head on port and wash basin on starboard, along with hand held shower(removed). The galley is on the starboard side from the quarter berth to the main bulkhead. Powered by a 12 hp diesel farymann. Mainsheet traveler a head of the wheel. In about 1977, what I believe is the 3-29 has a quarter berth on the port and ice box and sink cabinetry on starboard blocking off the quarter. There is the wash sink on starboard. Additionally, there is a berth between the stove and the main bulkhead and directly across from the galley table. This version comes with wheel steering unlike the 29. When I have a chance I will pull out the hard copy and check against the pdf. It would be great to see all of the variations. Maybe you can post some pictures of the boat described below, since it is different from the drawings. Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. From: Alex Kunadze To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [External] RE: [Cal_Boats] Is it time for the dreaded beam repla Well, then I have a 29, except that the only sink I have is in the galley, which is to starboard. On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: Alex offered: > AFAIK, Cal 29 and 2-29 is the same boat with some minor differences in the cabin layout. Here are the major differences as I understand them: Cal 29: head and sink to port, hanging locker to starboard, starboard quarterberth, tiller Cal 29-2: head sink to starboard, no starboard quarterberth, wheel steering Both have deck-stepped masts. (Roger Jones was planning a keel-stepped carbon fiber mast for Swiss Navy, but that was definitely a departure from factory specs.) Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8007 (20130213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com/ PG&E is committed to protecting our customers' privacy. To learn more, please visithttp://www.pge.com/about/company/privacy/customer/ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8011 (20130214) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8011 (20130214) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com