Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement?

I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we up to now . . . 4? Let me know if you want me to approach him. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not intended to bear any significant load... Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go deeper into the project. Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <_a… [at] verizon.net_ (mailto:ap… [at] verizon.net) > wrote: Greg wrote: > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be done some day. I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds. Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can also save you a lot of money. Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”

Paul, With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the drawing: http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > ** > I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on > the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you > guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we > up to now . . . 4? > > Let me know if you want me to approach him. > > Paul > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > > > > That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, > so that does seem to be the way to go. > > Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the > forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've > thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces > would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not > intended to bear any significant load... > > Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go > deeper into the project. > > Cheers, > Alex. > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Greg wrote:**** >> >> **** >> >> > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be >> done some day.**** >> >> **** >> >> I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot >> in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. >> Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to >> form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You >> still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by >> bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds.*** >> * >> >> **** >> >> Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and >> definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be >> able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can >> also save you a lot of money.**** >> >> **** >> >> Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off.**** >> >> **** >> >> Alfred Poor**** >> >> 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”**** >> >> **** >> >> > >

Alex, Will do. Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the application. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: Paul, With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the drawing: _http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg_ (http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg) Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > wrote: I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we up to now . . . 4? Let me know if you want me to approach him. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _k… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:kr… [at] gmail.com) writes: That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not intended to bear any significant load... Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go deeper into the project. Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <_a… [at] verizon.net_ (mailto:ap… [at] verizon.net) > wrote: Greg wrote: > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be done some day. I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds. Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can also save you a lot of money. Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”

I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love to see it too. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > ** > Alex, > > Will do. > > Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do > you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the > application. > > Thanks - > > Paul > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > > > > Paul, > > With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so > by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the > drawing: > http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg > > Cheers, > Alex. > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> ** >> I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me >> on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings >> you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are >> we up to now . . . 4? >> >> Let me know if you want me to approach him. >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >> That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, >> so that does seem to be the way to go. >> >> Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the >> forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've >> thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces >> would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not >> intended to bear any significant load... >> >> Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go >> deeper into the project. >> >> Cheers, >> Alex. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> Greg wrote:**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be >>> done some day.**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot >>> in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. >>> Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to >>> form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You >>> still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by >>> bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds.** >>> ** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and >>> definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be >>> able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can >>> also save you a lot of money.**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off.**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> Alfred Poor**** >>> >>> 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> >> > >

He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him to be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm sure that'd be helpful. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love to see it too. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > wrote: Alex, Will do. Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the application. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _k… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:kr… [at] gmail.com) writes: Paul, With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the drawing: _http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg_ (http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg) Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > wrote: I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we up to now . . . 4? Let me know if you want me to approach him. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _k… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:kr… [at] gmail.com) writes: That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not intended to bear any significant load... Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go deeper into the project. Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <_a… [at] verizon.net_ (mailto:ap… [at] verizon.net) > wrote: Greg wrote: > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be done some day. I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds. Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can also save you a lot of money. Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”

LOL that'd be where the term boat week/year came from. Funny that you mention sitting and staring, I find myself doing that a lot as well. Doesn't matter how long I stare at it, it never fixes itself <sigh> Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:43:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ja… [at] mac.com writes: Yes...I should be a bit honest about the effort...you tend to forget how much work it is once it's done; however, I was able to take the boat out with it filled with tools and half finished projects as long as they didn't impact the sturdiness...demolish, cut the pan, remove the bulkhead, use the old bulkhead as template put that portion back in....try to do that prior to the season and have all of the material on-hand. I work at about 25% effeciency as I tend to sit and stare a lot when I'm working on the boat by myself...that or realize that there is some good scotch in the cold box and a half-finished novel of some sorts along with those nice new cushions and a sleeping bag at hand. Once my dog starts snoring away, I tend to be close behind.....then theirs my boat neighbors and conversation and jokes about the cost of boat parts...etc. --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , Alex Kunadze wrote: > > James, > > It looks like you've replaced much more than just a beam! Nice job! > > I plan to embark on such a project some day, but... here's a quote from one > of your photos: "Finally got my boat underway...and I hate to say that it's > been 3 years of interior re-build stemming from the "dreaded beam" that > ended up a nearly complete retrofit." I'm just hoping I can manage most of > my planned improvements without marooning the boat. > > Cheers, > Alex. > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:49 PM, James wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed replacing the beam...hard at > > first, but the 29 isn't that large of a boat where it is totally > > overwhelming. It takes time but it allowed me to be thoroughly connected to > > the construction of the boat. I replaced the beam, replaced the bulkhead, > > etc; however, if there is someway consider a repair in the off-season or on > > the shoulder season and simply putting things back so that they are > > structurally sound and finish up the cosmetic side as time allows, you > > should be able to get a good season of sailing in. > > > > What the initial repair enabled me to do is to really mentally get excited > > about taking a complete restoration of the boat with a more acceptable > > mindset. It's time I have to myself with a good radio, cup of coffee or > > some good beer and the results and rewards come quickly. > > > > I'll post some photos of the new ceiling in the photo section under SV > > Thalia....shows the replaced bulkhead and what a more modern "brightening" > > of the 70's dark wood style did to the cabin. Mindset's important and what > > more is that you have incredible resources in photos and experience just > > from this website....I wouldn't have been able to do it without Wilkie's > > webpage that showed a "step-by-step" approach. > > > > --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , Alex Kunadze wrote: > > > > > > That was pretty much my experience as well, except that I had the "oh > > shit" > > > moment before buying the boat, so it wasn't that scary. I'm confident I > > can > > > do the repair myself, but I also know it'll take a lot of time and the > > > "dreaded" part is missing out on all the sailing in the meantime. Paying > > > 10K for that is not really an option, it'll be more than the boat is > > worth. > > > > > > Now, can the good readers recommend a professional I could call to the > > boat > > > to assess the damage? I need to decide if it has to be repaired right > > away, > > > or if it can wait till next winter and I just don't have the > > > knowledge/experience to do that. The boat is on SF Bay, Coyote Point > > harbor > > > in San Mateo, CA. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Alex. > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:07 PM, theredthread wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The day I came home after sailing my 1974 Cal 29 into her new home in > > > > Berkeley I decided to scour the web for images, and of course I came > > across > > > > a bunch of images and blog posts about "The Dreaded BEAM!" At first > > yes, it > > > > scared the shit out of me, like what have I gotten myself into. I > > called > > > > the guy who surveyed my boat and he basically said "yes, it's > > something you > > > > can fix down the line, but unless you're going around the farallones > > and/or > > > > if you see actual evidence of compression, don't worry about it." > > > > > > > > And after talking to folks on this group, I have confidence I can > > manage > > > > the repair myself. My main issue is the time it'll take so for now I'm > > just > > > > sailing the hell out of it and keeping an eye on it. > > > > > > > > FYI, for "fun" I talked to someone at KKMI and they said they did a > > > > similar job for just under 10k. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , Chris Campbell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was chuckling at the "dreaded beam." We all know what it means, and > > > > > it means a pain-in-the-butt job. But maybe we should adopt a less > > scary > > > > > term, one that doesn't frighten off newbies or potential Cal > > sailors. I > > > > > chuckle because when working with wooden boats, we regard them as > > > > > modular--you can replace parts as they fail. You can replace frames, > > > > > planks, floors, knees, whatever gives up. On the other hand, we get > > all > > > > > spoiled when it comes to our plastic boats. We act as though all they > > > > > require is a quick hose-down in the spring and the occasional coat of > > > > > bottom paint. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe we should view this problem as an opportunity to display skill > > and > > > > > craftsmanship--like spiling a new plank on the wooden boat. > > > > > > > > > > Chris Campbell > > > > > Whose boat lacks, luckily, the dreaded beam. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ha! Yea...there's got to be a name for the "boat stare"...like a trance. Once I sit down in that cabin, even with a drill in my hand....time starts to move very sloooowwwllllyyy. There is a sort of beauty to that.... --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, pwestla@... wrote: > > LOL that'd be where the term boat week/year came from. > > Funny that you mention sitting and staring, I find myself doing that a lot > as well. Doesn't matter how long I stare at it, it never fixes itself > <sigh> > > Paul > > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:43:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jamesbibb@... writes: > > > > > Yes...I should be a bit honest about the effort...you tend to forget how > much work it is once it's done; however, I was able to take the boat out with > it filled with tools and half finished projects as long as they didn't > impact the sturdiness...demolish, cut the pan, remove the bulkhead, use the > old bulkhead as template put that portion back in....try to do that prior to > the season and have all of the material on-hand. > > I work at about 25% effeciency as I tend to sit and stare a lot when I'm > working on the boat by myself...that or realize that there is some good > scotch in the cold box and a half-finished novel of some sorts along with those > nice new cushions and a sleeping bag at hand. Once my dog starts snoring > away, I tend to be close behind.....then theirs my boat neighbors and > conversation and jokes about the cost of boat parts...etc. > > --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , > Alex Kunadze wrote: > > > > James, > > > > It looks like you've replaced much more than just a beam! Nice job! > > > > I plan to embark on such a project some day, but... here's a quote from > one > > of your photos: "Finally got my boat underway...and I hate to say that > it's > > been 3 years of interior re-build stemming from the "dreaded beam" that > > ended up a nearly complete retrofit." I'm just hoping I can manage most > of > > my planned improvements without marooning the boat. > > > > Cheers, > > Alex. > > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:49 PM, James wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed replacing the beam...hard at > > > first, but the 29 isn't that large of a boat where it is totally > > > overwhelming. It takes time but it allowed me to be thoroughly > connected to > > > the construction of the boat. I replaced the beam, replaced the > bulkhead, > > > etc; however, if there is someway consider a repair in the off-season > or on > > > the shoulder season and simply putting things back so that they are > > > structurally sound and finish up the cosmetic side as time allows, you > > > should be able to get a good season of sailing in. > > > > > > What the initial repair enabled me to do is to really mentally get > excited > > > about taking a complete restoration of the boat with a more acceptable > > > mindset. It's time I have to myself with a good radio, cup of coffee or > > > some good beer and the results and rewards come quickly. > > > > > > I'll post some photos of the new ceiling in the photo section under SV > > > Thalia....shows the replaced bulkhead and what a more modern > "brightening" > > > of the 70's dark wood style did to the cabin. Mindset's important and > what > > > more is that you have incredible resources in photos and experience > just > > > from this website....I wouldn't have been able to do it without > Wilkie's > > > webpage that showed a "step-by-step" approach. > > > > > > --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , > Alex Kunadze wrote: > > > > > > > > That was pretty much my experience as well, except that I had the "oh > > > shit" > > > > moment before buying the boat, so it wasn't that scary. I'm > confident I > > > can > > > > do the repair myself, but I also know it'll take a lot of time and > the > > > > "dreaded" part is missing out on all the sailing in the meantime. > Paying > > > > 10K for that is not really an option, it'll be more than the boat is > > > worth. > > > > > > > > Now, can the good readers recommend a professional I could call to > the > > > boat > > > > to assess the damage? I need to decide if it has to be repaired right > > > away, > > > > or if it can wait till next winter and I just don't have the > > > > knowledge/experience to do that. The boat is on SF Bay, Coyote Point > > > harbor > > > > in San Mateo, CA. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Alex. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:07 PM, theredthread wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The day I came home after sailing my 1974 Cal 29 into her new home > in > > > > > Berkeley I decided to scour the web for images, and of course I > came > > > across > > > > > a bunch of images and blog posts about "The Dreaded BEAM!" At first > > > yes, it > > > > > scared the shit out of me, like what have I gotten myself into. I > > > called > > > > > the guy who surveyed my boat and he basically said "yes, it's > > > something you > > > > > can fix down the line, but unless you're going around the > farallones > > > and/or > > > > > if you see actual evidence of compression, don't worry about it." > > > > > > > > > > And after talking to folks on this group, I have confidence I can > > > manage > > > > > the repair myself. My main issue is the time it'll take so for now > I'm > > > just > > > > > sailing the hell out of it and keeping an eye on it. > > > > > > > > > > FYI, for "fun" I talked to someone at KKMI and they said they did > a > > > > > similar job for just under 10k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ > (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , Chris Campbell wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I was chuckling at the "dreaded beam." We all know what it > means, and > > > > > > it means a pain-in-the-butt job. But maybe we should adopt a > less > > > scary > > > > > > term, one that doesn't frighten off newbies or potential Cal > > > sailors. I > > > > > > chuckle because when working with wooden boats, we regard them > as > > > > > > modular--you can replace parts as they fail. You can replace > frames, > > > > > > planks, floors, knees, whatever gives up. On the other hand, we > get > > > all > > > > > > spoiled when it comes to our plastic boats. We act as though > all they > > > > > > require is a quick hose-down in the spring and the occasional > coat of > > > > > > bottom paint. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe we should view this problem as an opportunity to display > skill > > > and > > > > > > craftsmanship--like spiling a new plank on the wooden boat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > Whose boat lacks, luckily, the dreaded beam. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Here's the link to Mariposa site that details the procedure "the hard way": http://www.mariposasailing.com/beam.html I've seen a great blog about doing it from the head compartment without removing the bulkhead, but I can't find it now... There're also some pictures in the Photos section here, but they're not as detailed. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > ** > He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him to > be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm sure > that'd be helpful. > > Paul > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > > > > I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but > not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love > to see it too. > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> ** >> Alex, >> >> Will do. >> >> Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do >> you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the >> application. >> >> Thanks - >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >> Paul, >> >> With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, >> so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to >> the drawing: >> http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg >> >> Cheers, >> Alex. >> >> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> ** >>> I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me >>> on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings >>> you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are >>> we up to now . . . 4? >>> >>> Let me know if you want me to approach him. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >>> >>> >>> >>> That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section >>> constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. >>> >>> Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the >>> forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've >>> thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces >>> would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not >>> intended to bear any significant load... >>> >>> Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go >>> deeper into the project. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alex. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: >>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> >>>> Greg wrote:**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be >>>> done some day.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a >>>> lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones >>>> created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the >>>> web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. >>>> (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be >>>> made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the >>>> welds.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and >>>> definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be >>>> able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can >>>> also save you a lot of money.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Alfred Poor**** >>>> >>>> 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> >>> >> > >

Related but not... I thought I'd share. I'm neck deep in adding a beam to my cal 28 flatop. The original flattop didn't have the dreaded beam, but the inner liner has cracked and the compression post shifted slightly out of column. The cabin top sags a bit and a crack can be seen in the cross beam below the maststep. Time to fix. Pictures illustrate the change in design, which mimick later cals with beams. I've received a quote to have this beam fabbed. $700, ouch. I think I will have the parts waterjet and learn to stick weld. I'm curious what you guys pay for your beams in a bulk order? I wish I could join the bulk order but my beam is of different geometry. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > Here's the link to Mariposa site that details the procedure "the hard > way": http://www.mariposasailing.com/beam.html > I've seen a great blog about doing it from the head compartment without > removing the bulkhead, but I can't find it now... > There're also some pictures in the Photos section here, but they're not as > detailed. > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> ** >> He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him >> to be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm >> sure that'd be helpful. >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >> I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but >> not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love >> to see it too. >> >> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> ** >>> Alex, >>> >>> Will do. >>> >>> Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do >>> you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the >>> application. >>> >>> Thanks - >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, >>> so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to >>> the drawing: >>> http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alex. >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> >>>> ** >>>> I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me >>>> on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings >>>> you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are >>>> we up to now . . . 4? >>>> >>>> Let me know if you want me to approach him. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>>> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section >>>> constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. >>>> >>>> Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the >>>> forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've >>>> thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces >>>> would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not >>>> intended to bear any significant load... >>>> >>>> Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go >>>> deeper into the project. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greg wrote:**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be >>>>> done some day.**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a >>>>> lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones >>>>> created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the >>>>> web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. >>>>> (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be >>>>> made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the >>>>> welds.**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and >>>>> definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be >>>>> able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can >>>>> also save you a lot of money.**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off.**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> Alfred Poor**** >>>>> >>>>> 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > >

On 2/15/2013 1:52 PM, James wrote: > Ha! Yea...there's got to be a name for the "boat stare"...like a trance. Once I sit down in that cabin, even with a drill in my hand....time starts to move very sloooowwwllllyyy. There is a sort of beauty to that.... And it's actually productive time. The brain is evaluating and devising strategies. Chris Campbell

Adam, I'll mention your project when asking for quotes. You might get a better price even though it'll be slightly different design. ** [Attachment(s) <#13cdf8d09c1ce21f_TopText> from Adam Thorp included below] Related but not... I thought I'd share. I'm neck deep in adding a beam to my cal 28 flatop. The original flattop didn't have the dreaded beam, but the inner liner has cracked and the compression post shifted slightly out of column. The cabin top sags a bit and a crack can be seen in the cross beam below the maststep. Time to fix. Pictures illustrate the change in design, which mimick later cals with beams. I've received a quote to have this beam fabbed. $700, ouch. I think I will have the parts waterjet and learn to stick weld. I'm curious what you guys pay for your beams in a bulk order? I wish I could join the bulk order but my beam is of different geometry. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > Here's the link to Mariposa site that details the procedure "the hard > way": http://www.mariposasailing.com/beam.html > I've seen a great blog about doing it from the head compartment without > removing the bulkhead, but I can't find it now... > There're also some pictures in the Photos section here, but they're not as > detailed. > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> ** >> He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him >> to be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm >> sure that'd be helpful. >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >> I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but >> not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love >> to see it too. >> >> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> ** >>> Alex, >>> >>> Will do. >>> >>> Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do >>> you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the >>> application. >>> >>> Thanks - >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, >>> so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to >>> the drawing: >>> http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alex. >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> >>>> ** >>>> I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me >>>> on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings >>>> you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are >>>> we up to now . . . 4? >>>> >>>> Let me know if you want me to approach him. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>>> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section >>>> constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. >>>> >>>> Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the >>>> forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've >>>> thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces >>>> would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not >>>> intended to bear any significant load... >>>> >>>> Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go >>>> deeper into the project. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greg wrote:**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be >>>>> done some day.**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a >>>>> lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones >>>>> created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the >>>>> web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. >>>>> (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be >>>>> made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the >>>>> welds.**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and >>>>> definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be >>>>> able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can >>>>> also save you a lot of money.**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off.**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> Alfred Poor**** >>>>> >>>>> 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”**** >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >

The brain is going "There must be an easier way!" "There must be an easier way!" Sometimes there is. However, I bet the time saved when there is (an easier way) is probably far outweighed by the amount of time one spends contemplating one's navel. Similarly guilty. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 4:17 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? On 2/15/2013 1:52 PM, James wrote: > Ha! Yea...there's got to be a name for the "boat stare"...like a trance. Once I sit down in that cabin, even with a drill in my hand....time starts to move very sloooowwwllllyyy. There is a sort of beauty to that.... And it's actually productive time. The brain is evaluating and devising strategies. Chris Campbell ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Alex, Adam - I forwarded your information and links to my buddy to give a quote on the 29 beam. Adam, without a drawing he can't really give you a quote on your beam but it would likely be in the ball park should you be able to find a drawing or ship him the remains once you get it out. I'll let you know something as soon as he gets back to me. Paul From: Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:50 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? Adam, I'll mention your project when asking for quotes. You might get a better price even though it'll be slightly different design. [Attachment(s) from Adam Thorp included below] Related but not... I thought I'd share. I'm neck deep in adding a beam to my cal 28 flatop. The original flattop didn't have the dreaded beam, but the inner liner has cracked and the compression post shifted slightly out of column. The cabin top sags a bit and a crack can be seen in the cross beam below the maststep. Time to fix. Pictures illustrate the change in design, which mimick later cals with beams. I've received a quote to have this beam fabbed. $700, ouch. I think I will have the parts waterjet and learn to stick weld. I'm curious what you guys pay for your beams in a bulk order? I wish I could join the bulk order but my beam is of different geometry. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Here's the link to Mariposa site that details the procedure "the hard way": http://www.mariposasailing.com/beam.html I've seen a great blog about doing it from the head compartment without removing the bulkhead, but I can't find it now... There're also some pictures in the Photos section here, but they're not as detailed. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him to be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm sure that'd be helpful. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love to see it too. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: Alex, Will do. Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the application. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: Paul, With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the drawing: http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we up to now . . . 4? Let me know if you want me to approach him. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not intended to bear any significant load... Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go deeper into the project. Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: Greg wrote: > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be done some day. I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds. Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can also save you a lot of money. Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya”

And you can't forget "Boat Math" . . . 10 projects - 1 project = 19 projects Paul From: Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? The brain is going "There must be an easier way!" "There must be an easier way!" Sometimes there is. However, I bet the time saved when there is (an easier way) is probably far outweighed by the amount of time one spends contemplating one's navel. Similarly guilty. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 4:17 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? On 2/15/2013 1:52 PM, James wrote: > Ha! Yea...there's got to be a name for the "boat stare"...like a trance. Once I sit down in that cabin, even with a drill in my hand....time starts to move very sloooowwwllllyyy. There is a sort of beauty to that.... And it's actually productive time. The brain is evaluating and devising strategies. Chris Campbell ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Alex - I am not at all familiar with your boat but if the wood in the cabintop/roof/deck/celiling (whatever the correct term is) is saturated it could sag regardless of the condition of the beam. How does it feel when you walk on it? Paul In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:07:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: Well, I inspected the beam with a scope yesterday. There's about 2-3 inches of rust (height-wise) on the bottom, but it doesn't look like it is rusted through. The scope actually didn't help much, but I managed to get my hand in the middle and port side of the beam and scrape the rust off a little bit. So, if not the beam, what else could've caused the roof to sag? There's the crack at the hatch entry point, plus the door to the head compartment is jammed, so there's definitely something wrong... Cheers, Alex. --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , Alex Kunadze wrote: > > Well, my arms are not that long, but I did get a cheap USB scope yesterday > and will poke around there in the next few days. Maybe I can get it in from > the bilge as you suggest, as well as from the port side settee. > > The more I think about it, the more the cabin roof worries me. Even though > the beam seems like a nasty project, it's at least more or less a known > quantity. But the roof... I just hope it's not rotten and can be fixed > without tearing the boat in half. > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Jim offered:**** > > > > ** ** > > > > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is > > collapsing.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > If you've got long arms, you can reach up from the bilge access in the > > main saloon floor and feel around for large lumps of rusted steel. Visual > > inspection of the three tabs (two to port, one to starboard) at the base of > > the main bulkhead can also reveal damage. You probably don't need a scope > > to make a first-approximation inspection.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Alfred Poor**** > > > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"**** > > > > (former owner of 1969 Cal 29 #132 "Pentaquod" and beam-replacement veteran) > > **** > > > > > > >

The deck is plywood sandwich. The door is right under the mast, along with a teak support beam. It feels pretty solid. I drilled a small hole in the cabin roof next to the hatch (where I thought it was most likely wet), but the wood came out just a little damp, definitely not rotten. Tried the knock test from above, but i can't really make sense of the difference in sound. There was no buzzing sounds, which I've been told are indications of delamination. On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > ** > Alex - > > I am not at all familiar with your boat but if the wood in the > cabintop/roof/deck/celiling (whatever the correct term is) is saturated it > could sag regardless of the condition of the beam. How does it feel when > you walk on it? > > Paul > > In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:07:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > > > > Well, I inspected the beam with a scope yesterday. There's about 2-3 > inches of rust (height-wise) on the bottom, but it doesn't look like it is > rusted through. The scope actually didn't help much, but I managed to get > my hand in the middle and port side of the beam and scrape the rust off a > little bit. > > So, if not the beam, what else could've caused the roof to sag? There's > the crack at the hatch entry point, plus the door to the head compartment > is jammed, so there's definitely something wrong... > > Cheers, > Alex. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Alex Kunadze wrote: > > > > Well, my arms are not that long, but I did get a cheap USB scope > yesterday > > and will poke around there in the next few days. Maybe I can get it in > from > > the bilge as you suggest, as well as from the port side settee. > > > > The more I think about it, the more the cabin roof worries me. Even > though > > the beam seems like a nasty project, it's at least more or less a known > > quantity. But the roof... I just hope it's not rotten and can be fixed > > without tearing the boat in half. > > > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Jim offered:**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is > > > collapsing.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > If you've got long arms, you can reach up from the bilge access in the > > > main saloon floor and feel around for large lumps of rusted steel. > Visual > > > inspection of the three tabs (two to port, one to starboard) at the > base of > > > the main bulkhead can also reveal damage. You probably don't need a > scope > > > to make a first-approximation inspection.**** > > > > > > ** ** > > > > > > Alfred Poor**** > > > > > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"**** > > > > > > (former owner of 1969 Cal 29 #132 "Pentaquod" and beam-replacement > veteran) > > > **** > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Alex - It doesn't have to be rotten to sag (which is why you steam wood to bend it) and if it's damp you have a problem that needs to be addressed as it will never dry out. Looks like it may be a "while you're at it" project when you replace the beam if that is still the plan. Paul In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:18:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: The deck is plywood sandwich. The door is right under the mast, along with a teak support beam. It feels pretty solid. I drilled a small hole in the cabin roof next to the hatch (where I thought it was most likely wet), but the wood came out just a little damp, definitely not rotten. Tried the knock test from above, but i can't really make sense of the difference in sound. There was no buzzing sounds, which I've been told are indications of delamination. On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM, <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > wrote: Alex - I am not at all familiar with your boat but if the wood in the cabintop/roof/deck/celiling (whatever the correct term is) is saturated it could sag regardless of the condition of the beam. How does it feel when you walk on it? Paul In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:07:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _k… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:kr… [at] gmail.com) writes: Well, I inspected the beam with a scope yesterday. There's about 2-3 inches of rust (height-wise) on the bottom, but it doesn't look like it is rusted through. The scope actually didn't help much, but I managed to get my hand in the middle and port side of the beam and scrape the rust off a little bit. So, if not the beam, what else could've caused the roof to sag? There's the crack at the hatch entry point, plus the door to the head compartment is jammed, so there's definitely something wrong... Cheers, Alex. --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , Alex Kunadze wrote: > > Well, my arms are not that long, but I did get a cheap USB scope yesterday > and will poke around there in the next few days. Maybe I can get it in from > the bilge as you suggest, as well as from the port side settee. > > The more I think about it, the more the cabin roof worries me. Even though > the beam seems like a nasty project, it's at least more or less a known > quantity. But the roof... I just hope it's not rotten and can be fixed > without tearing the boat in half. > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Jim offered:**** > > > > ** ** > > > > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is > > collapsing.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > If you've got long arms, you can reach up from the bilge access in the > > main saloon floor and feel around for large lumps of rusted steel. Visual > > inspection of the three tabs (two to port, one to starboard) at the base of > > the main bulkhead can also reveal damage. You probably don't need a scope > > to make a first-approximation inspection.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Alfred Poor**** > > > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"**** > > > > (former owner of 1969 Cal 29 #132 "Pentaquod" and beam-replacement veteran) > > **** > > > > > > >

That's what I was afraid of... The beam is still on the table, it's definitely on the way out, even if it looks workable for now. Re-coring the roof would mean the mast has to come down, which means it has to go the yard, which means lots of down time... I was hoping to put this off till next winter. Maybe I could add some temporary horizontal support beams under the roof... On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:25 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > ** > Alex - > > It doesn't have to be rotten to sag (which is why you steam wood to bend > it) and if it's damp you have a problem that needs to be addressed as it > will never dry out. Looks like it may be a "while you're at it" project > when you replace the beam if that is still the plan. > > Paul > > In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:18:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > > > > The deck is plywood sandwich. The door is right under the mast, along with > a teak support beam. > > It feels pretty solid. I drilled a small hole in the cabin roof next to > the hatch (where I thought it was most likely wet), but the wood came out > just a little damp, definitely not rotten. Tried the knock test from above, > but i can't really make sense of the difference in sound. There was no > buzzing sounds, which I've been told are indications of delamination. > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> ** >> Alex - >> >> I am not at all familiar with your boat but if the wood in the >> cabintop/roof/deck/celiling (whatever the correct term is) is saturated it >> could sag regardless of the condition of the beam. How does it feel when >> you walk on it? >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:07:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >> Well, I inspected the beam with a scope yesterday. There's about 2-3 >> inches of rust (height-wise) on the bottom, but it doesn't look like it is >> rusted through. The scope actually didn't help much, but I managed to get >> my hand in the middle and port side of the beam and scrape the rust off a >> little bit. >> >> So, if not the beam, what else could've caused the roof to sag? There's >> the crack at the hatch entry point, plus the door to the head compartment >> is jammed, so there's definitely something wrong... >> >> Cheers, >> Alex. >> >> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Alex Kunadze wrote: >> > >> > Well, my arms are not that long, but I did get a cheap USB scope >> yesterday >> > and will poke around there in the next few days. Maybe I can get it in >> from >> > the bilge as you suggest, as well as from the port side settee. >> > >> > The more I think about it, the more the cabin roof worries me. Even >> though >> > the beam seems like a nasty project, it's at least more or less a known >> > quantity. But the roof... I just hope it's not rotten and can be fixed >> > without tearing the boat in half. >> > >> > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: >> > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > >> > > Jim offered:**** >> > > >> > > ** ** >> > > >> > > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is >> > > collapsing.**** >> > > >> > > ** ** >> > > >> > > If you've got long arms, you can reach up from the bilge access in the >> > > main saloon floor and feel around for large lumps of rusted steel. >> Visual >> > > inspection of the three tabs (two to port, one to starboard) at the >> base of >> > > the main bulkhead can also reveal damage. You probably don't need a >> scope >> > > to make a first-approximation inspection.**** >> > > >> > > ** ** >> > > >> > > Alfred Poor**** >> > > >> > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"**** >> > > >> > > (former owner of 1969 Cal 29 #132 "Pentaquod" and beam-replacement >> veteran) >> > > **** >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > >

Well look at it this way it gives you time to get everything researched, materials purchased over time instead of one big lump sum, line up help as needed, figure out and design any other mods you want to do "while you're at it" (the 4 most expensive words in boating) and then sail the crap out of her next summer lol. Paul In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:31:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: That's what I was afraid of... The beam is still on the table, it's definitely on the way out, even if it looks workable for now. Re-coring the roof would mean the mast has to come down, which means it has to go the yard, which means lots of down time... I was hoping to put this off till next winter. Maybe I could add some temporary horizontal support beams under the roof... On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:25 PM, <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > wrote: Alex - It doesn't have to be rotten to sag (which is why you steam wood to bend it) and if it's damp you have a problem that needs to be addressed as it will never dry out. Looks like it may be a "while you're at it" project when you replace the beam if that is still the plan. Paul In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:18:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _k… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:kr… [at] gmail.com) writes: The deck is plywood sandwich. The door is right under the mast, along with a teak support beam. It feels pretty solid. I drilled a small hole in the cabin roof next to the hatch (where I thought it was most likely wet), but the wood came out just a little damp, definitely not rotten. Tried the knock test from above, but i can't really make sense of the difference in sound. There was no buzzing sounds, which I've been told are indications of delamination. On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM, <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > wrote: Alex - I am not at all familiar with your boat but if the wood in the cabintop/roof/deck/celiling (whatever the correct term is) is saturated it could sag regardless of the condition of the beam. How does it feel when you walk on it? Paul In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:07:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _k… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:kr… [at] gmail.com) writes: Well, I inspected the beam with a scope yesterday. There's about 2-3 inches of rust (height-wise) on the bottom, but it doesn't look like it is rusted through. The scope actually didn't help much, but I managed to get my hand in the middle and port side of the beam and scrape the rust off a little bit. So, if not the beam, what else could've caused the roof to sag? There's the crack at the hatch entry point, plus the door to the head compartment is jammed, so there's definitely something wrong... Cheers, Alex. --- In _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) , Alex Kunadze wrote: > > Well, my arms are not that long, but I did get a cheap USB scope yesterday > and will poke around there in the next few days. Maybe I can get it in from > the bilge as you suggest, as well as from the port side settee. > > The more I think about it, the more the cabin roof worries me. Even though > the beam seems like a nasty project, it's at least more or less a known > quantity. But the roof... I just hope it's not rotten and can be fixed > without tearing the boat in half. > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Jim offered:**** > > > > ** ** > > > > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is > > collapsing.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > If you've got long arms, you can reach up from the bilge access in the > > main saloon floor and feel around for large lumps of rusted steel. Visual > > inspection of the three tabs (two to port, one to starboard) at the base of > > the main bulkhead can also reveal damage. You probably don't need a scope > > to make a first-approximation inspection.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Alfred Poor**** > > > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"**** > > > > (former owner of 1969 Cal 29 #132 "Pentaquod" and beam-replacement veteran) > > **** > > > > > > >

Do you still need the drawing for the dreaded steel beam? Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: pw… [at] aol.com To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:22 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? Alex, Adam - I forwarded your information and links to my buddy to give a quote on the 29 beam. Adam, without a drawing he can't really give you a quote on your beam but it would likely be in the ball park should you be able to find a drawing or ship him the remains once you get it out. I'll let you know something as soon as he gets back to me. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:50 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? Adam, I'll mention your project when asking for quotes. You might get a better price even though it'll be slightly different design. [Attachment(s) from Adam Thorp included below] Related but not... I thought I'd share. I'm neck deep in adding a beam to my cal 28 flatop. The original flattop didn't have the dreaded beam, but the inner liner has cracked and the compression post shifted slightly out of column. The cabin top sags a bit and a crack can be seen in the cross beam below the maststep. Time to fix. Pictures illustrate the change in design, which mimick later cals with beams. I've received a quote to have this beam fabbed. $700, ouch. I think I will have the parts waterjet and learn to stick weld. I'm curious what you guys pay for your beams in a bulk order? I wish I could join the bulk order but my beam is of different geometry. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Here's the link to Mariposa site that details the procedure "the hard way": http://www.mariposasailing.com/beam.html I've seen a great blog about doing it from the head compartment without removing the bulkhead, but I can't find it now... There're also some pictures in the Photos section here, but they're not as detailed. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him to be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm sure that'd be helpful. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love to see it too. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: Alex, Will do. Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the application. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: Paul, With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the drawing: http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we up to now . . . 4? Let me know if you want me to approach him. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not intended to bear any significant load... Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go deeper into the project. Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: Greg wrote: > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be done some day. I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds. Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can also save you a lot of money. Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8018 (20130216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8018 (20130216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Folks, I’ve attached a drawing that talks to the sag problem. The sagging beam is a symptom of leakage in a couple possible places. I was rargeting the CAL 28, but I think the discussion applies to any deck stepped mast. I just got back from seeing Maryland beat Duke. Frostbite races tomorrow will be real cold and real blowy. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:14 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? Alex - I am not at all familiar with your boat but if the wood in the cabintop/roof/deck/celiling (whatever the correct term is) is saturated it could sag regardless of the condition of the beam. How does it feel when you walk on it? Paul In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:07:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: Well, I inspected the beam with a scope yesterday. There's about 2-3 inches of rust (height-wise) on the bottom, but it doesn't look like it is rusted through. The scope actually didn't help much, but I managed to get my hand in the middle and port side of the beam and scrape the rust off a little bit. So, if not the beam, what else could've caused the roof to sag? There's the crack at the hatch entry point, plus the door to the head compartment is jammed, so there's definitely something wrong... Cheers, Alex. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, Alex Kunadze wrote: > > Well, my arms are not that long, but I did get a cheap USB scope yesterday > and will poke around there in the next few days. Maybe I can get it in from > the bilge as you suggest, as well as from the port side settee. > > The more I think about it, the more the cabin roof worries me. Even though > the beam seems like a nasty project, it's at least more or less a known > quantity. But the roof... I just hope it's not rotten and can be fixed > without tearing the boat in half. > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Jim offered:**** > > > > ** ** > > > > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is > > collapsing.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > If you've got long arms, you can reach up from the bilge access in the > > main saloon floor and feel around for large lumps of rusted steel. Visual > > inspection of the three tabs (two to port, one to starboard) at the base of > > the main bulkhead can also reveal damage. You probably don't need a scope > > to make a first-approximation inspection.**** > > > > ** ** > > > > Alfred Poor**** > > > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"**** > > > > (former owner of 1969 Cal 29 #132 "Pentaquod" and beam-replacement veteran) > > **** > > > > > > >

Mark - We got the link for the 29 steel beam thanks. If you have one for the Cal 28 flat top that would be helpful. Thanks - Paul From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <ma… [at] cox.net> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Feb 16, 2013 8:53 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement?  Do you still need the drawing for the dreaded steel beam? Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. From: pw… [at] aol.com To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:22 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? Alex, Adam - I forwarded your information and links to my buddy to give a quote on the 29 beam. Adam, without a drawing he can't really give you a quote on your beam but it would likely be in the ball park should you be able to find a drawing or ship him the remains once you get it out. I'll let you know something as soon as he gets back to me. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:50 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? Adam, I'll mention your project when asking for quotes. You might get a better price even though it'll be slightly different design. [Attachment(s) from Adam Thorp included below] Related but not... I thought I'd share. I'm neck deep in adding a beam to my cal 28 flatop. The original flattop didn't have the dreaded beam, but the inner liner has cracked and the compression post shifted slightly out of column. The cabin top sags a bit and a crack can be seen in the cross beam below the maststep. Time to fix. Pictures illustrate the change in design, which mimick later cals with beams. I've received a quote to have this beam fabbed. $700, ouch. I think I will have the parts waterjet and learn to stick weld. I'm curious what you guys pay for your beams in a bulk order? I wish I could join the bulk order but my beam is of different geometry. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Here's the link to Mariposa site that details the procedure "the hard way": http://www.mariposasailing.com/beam.html I've seen a great blog about doing it from the head compartment without removing the bulkhead, but I can't find it now... There're also some pictures in the Photos section here, but they're not as detailed. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him to be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm sure that'd be helpful. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love to see it too. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: Alex, Will do. Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the application. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: Paul, With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the drawing: http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we up to now . . . 4? Let me know if you want me to approach him. Paul In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not intended to bear any significant load... Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go deeper into the project. Cheers, Alex. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <ap… [at] verizon.net> wrote: Greg wrote: > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be done some day. I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds. Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can also save you a lot of money. Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off. Alfred Poor 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8018 (20130216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8018 (20130216) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Aaaright! Multiple beam projects ahead! Let's see pictures! I took the boat out today for a short run. Now this is Alaska in February and there was myself and a bloke on a paddle board out in the channel. 40 degrees and a good 12 knots wind. I am a good two months ahead of my sailing season schedule. I don't know what other folk's winter has been but we're way out of range up here. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, pwestla@... wrote: > > > Mark - > > We got the link for the 29 steel beam thanks. If you have one for the Cal 28 flat top that would be helpful. > > Thanks - > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) <masconsult@...> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sat, Feb 16, 2013 8:53 pm > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? > > > > > >  > Do you still need the drawing for the dreaded steel beam? > > Mark A. Stahnke > MAS Consulting > (310) 832-5992 > > The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: pwestla@... > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? > > > > > > > Alex, Adam - > > > > I forwarded your information and links to my buddy to give a quote on the 29 beam. Adam, without a drawing he can't really give you a quote on your beam but it would likely be in the ball park should you be able to find a drawing or ship him the remains once you get it out. > > > > I'll let you know something as soon as he gets back to me. > > > > Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:50 pm > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? > > > > > > > > Adam, I'll mention your project when asking for quotes. You might get a better price even though it'll be slightly different design. > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Adam Thorp included below] > Related but not... I thought I'd share. > > > > I'm neck deep in adding a beam to my cal 28 flatop. > > > > The original flattop didn't have the dreaded beam, but the inner liner has cracked and the compression post shifted slightly out of column. The cabin top sags a bit and a crack can be seen in the cross beam below the maststep. Time to fix. > > > > > Pictures illustrate the change in design, which mimick later cals with beams. > > > > > I've received a quote to have this beam fabbed. $700, ouch. I think I will have the parts waterjet and learn to stick weld. > > > > > I'm curious what you guys pay for your beams in a bulk order? I wish I could join the bulk order but my beam is of different geometry. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Here's the link to Mariposa site that details the procedure "the hard way": http://www.mariposasailing.com/beam.html > > I've seen a great blog about doing it from the head compartment without removing the bulkhead, but I can't find it now... > > There're also some pictures in the Photos section here, but they're not as detailed. > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM, <pwestla@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him to be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm sure that'd be helpful. > > > > Paul > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, krollokot@... writes: > > > > I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love to see it too. > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, <pwestla@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Alex, > > > > Will do. > > > > Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the application. > > > > Thanks - > > > > Paul > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, krollokot@... writes: > > > > Paul, > > With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the drawing: http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg > > Cheers, > Alex. > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, <pwestla@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we up to now . . . 4? > > > > Let me know if you want me to approach him. > > > > Paul > > > > > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, krollokot@... writes: > > > > > That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. > > > > > Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not intended to bear any significant load... > > > > > Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go deeper into the project. > > > > > Cheers, > > Alex. > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor <apoor@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Greg wrote: > > > > > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be done some day. > > > > I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds. > > > > Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can also save you a lot of money. > > > > Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off. > > > > > Alfred Poor > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8018 (20130216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8018 (20130216) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com >

I have been following this thread as I complete work on installing a replacement main bulkhead on my Cal 28 (Flat-top no 155). I am not commenting on any replacement beam issues for other boats, OK? For the Cal 28 only, I believe that the main thrust of the mast is opposed by the shrouds, which pull upwards on the main bulkhead and transmit the upward load to the deck. The deck is mildly arched, backed by plywood. It is a composite structure of fiberglass, resin and plywood. The bulkhead is strongly tabbed to the overhead/deck composite and to the hull with resin and fiberglass tape. I replaced the overhead plywood from the v-berth bulkhead to the cockpit. At the main bulk head, the fit between the bulkhead and the overhead was designed a bit loose. It looks tight when all the trim is installed but assuming that the bulkhead was installed in the hull before the deck was mated, it was smart to have some clearances so the builder wouldn't have to refit everything if it stood proud of the deck when installed. If there were no companionway in the main bulkhead, the bulkhead/deck structure will work as a perfect arch to support the weight of the mast, boom, and rigging/sailing forces. But it's not! The span of the "truss" which is the main bulkhead is broken almost completely by the door opening to the head/locker area. I see some J boats with ovals cut into this bulkhead to leave some material above the opening. This wouldn't work on the Cal 28: you'd have to go through the door submarine style. The interior post we all think is supporting the mast is screwed and glued to the main bulkhead. So it takes load from the deck and transmits it to the bulkhead as well as to the liner. Remember that I am only talking about the Cal 28 here. The liner sits rather firmly upon the hull, and in my boat it's about a quarter inch of roving, glass and resin. It's also tabbed to the hull with glass and resin so it doesn't slip around. I believe, that for a Cal 28, you could strengthen the bulkhead/deck arch with a sister beam screwed and glassed to the overhead, and even strengthen the liner from the inside of the cabin: Add a stainless plate, grind off the gel coat and add additional glass roving and epoxy resin to build up the arch down there. I wouldn't take my boat apart to install a beam underneath the liner because I don't think there's much weight being carried down there, after the bulkhead/deck structure is taken care of. Most of the weight of the rig would be carried down the bulkhead to the tabs on the bulkhead. Most of the load carried by the bulkhead is transmitted to the hull or the liner on either side of the door opening. So in my humble opinion, it wouldn't make much sense to tear into the Cal 28 to sister in a stainless load bearing beam. I posted some pictures in the photo album under Cal 28 No. 155. My thanks to all contributors to this group. These boats are fun to work on and I always learn a lot from your experiences. Any Cal 28 owners that would like to talk to me off-list can reach me at ge… [at] yahoo.com George Barlow Cal 28 No 155 "Knackered" Eagle Mountain Lake, Texas On Feb 16, 2013, at 10:22 PM, James wrote: > > Aaaright! Multiple beam projects ahead! Let's see pictures! > > I took the boat out today for a short run. Now this is Alaska in February and there was myself and a bloke on a paddle board out in the channel. 40 degrees and a good 12 knots wind. I am a good two months ahead of my sailing season schedule. I don't know what other folk's winter has been but we're way out of range up here. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, pwestla@... wrote: > > > > > > Mark - > > > > We got the link for the 29 steel beam thanks. If you have one for the Cal 28 flat top that would be helpful. > > > > Thanks - > > > > Paul > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting) > > To: Cal_Boats Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sat, Feb 16, 2013 8:53 pm > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > Do you still need the drawing for the dreaded steel beam? > > > > Mark A. Stahnke > > MAS Consulting > > (310) 832-5992 > > > > The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: pwestla@... > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:22 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex, Adam - > > > > > > > > I forwarded your information and links to my buddy to give a quote on the 29 beam. Adam, without a drawing he can't really give you a quote on your beam but it would likely be in the ball park should you be able to find a drawing or ship him the remains once you get it out. > > > > > > > > I'll let you know something as soon as he gets back to me. > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alex Kunadze > > To: Cal_Boats Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:50 pm > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adam, I'll mention your project when asking for quotes. You might get a better price even though it'll be slightly different design. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Adam Thorp included below] > > Related but not... I thought I'd share. > > > > > > > > I'm neck deep in adding a beam to my cal 28 flatop. > > > > > > > > The original flattop didn't have the dreaded beam, but the inner liner has cracked and the compression post shifted slightly out of column. The cabin top sags a bit and a crack can be seen in the cross beam below the maststep. Time to fix. > > > > > > > > > > Pictures illustrate the change in design, which mimick later cals with beams. > > > > > > > > > > I've received a quote to have this beam fabbed. $700, ouch. I think I will have the parts waterjet and learn to stick weld. > > > > > > > > > > I'm curious what you guys pay for your beams in a bulk order? I wish I could join the bulk order but my beam is of different geometry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Alex Kunadze wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the link to Mariposa site that details the procedure "the hard way": http://www.mariposasailing.com/beam.html > > > > I've seen a great blog about doing it from the head compartment without removing the bulkhead, but I can't find it now... > > > > There're also some pictures in the Photos section here, but they're not as detailed. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He won't need the construction of the beam but it would be nice for him to be able to see where it goes so if you have links to those sites I'm sure that'd be helpful. > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:34:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, krollokot@... writes: > > > > > > > > I've seen a couple of sites with step-by-step replacement procedures, but not the construction of the beam itself. If there is such a site, I'd love to see it too. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex, > > > > > > > > Will do. > > > > > > > > Someone said there was a step by step photo process online as well. Do you happen to have the link for that as well? Always helps to see the application. > > > > > > > > Thanks - > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 1:17:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, krollokot@... writes: > > > > > > > > Paul, > > > > With four people interested I don't think it matters where the shop is, so by all means, get a quote and we'll compare notes. Here's the link to the drawing: http://www.richardanderson.net/TechSavvy/CAL_BOATS_files/Cal%2029%20Beam%20Drawing.jpg > > > > Cheers, > > Alex. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:02 AM, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know a very talented guy who can do this work but is out here with me on the east coast. If someone will point me to a link with the drawings you guys are talking about I can get a quote from him. How many beams are we up to now . . . 4? > > > > > > > > Let me know if you want me to approach him. > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/15/2013 12:59:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, krollokot@... writes: > > > > > > > > > > That's the way I saw most of the beams in the photos section constructed, so that does seem to be the way to go. > > > > > > > > > > Since we're on the topic of beam fabrication, I was wondering why the forward-facing side of the beam was left completely open. I would've thought at least a couple of tabs to connect the top and bottom pieces would make it much more rigid. Unless, of course, that section is not intended to bear any significant load... > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Alfred, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with more questions as I go deeper into the project. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Alex. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greg wrote: > > > > > > > > > If you decide to do a group beam purchase, I'm in. It'll have to be done some day. > > > > > > > > I think I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating. We saved a lot in fabrication costs by modifying the drawings that Roger Jones created. Instead of making the top plate a separate piece, simply bend the web to form the top plate. Then just weld the three small tabs in place. (You still have to weld the bottom web because it is curved and can’t be made by bending.) This reduces the number of cuts and the length of the welds. > > > > > > > > Also, look for a company that does a lot of stainless fabrication (and definitely not a marine company). Chances are excellent that they may be able to get some or all of the pieces out of their scrap bin, which can also save you a lot of money. > > > > > > > > Questions cheerfully entertained either on list or off. > > > > > > > > > > Alfred Poor > > > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 “Jambalaya” > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8018 (20130216) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8018 (20130216) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > >

have you inspected all the tabbing on the two bulkheads that frame the head cmptmt? I once saw a cal 29 at pt.molate(sp) that had the coach roof tabbing broken loose all the way from the top down past the deck line...looked like it had been dismasted and or rolled (beached) and i didn't look for it until i couldn't slide the door...yikes. it was advertised so cheap (over 10 years ago) I went to look to see if it was good for parts, they never said it had problems, just no motor. run, don't walk I said. it looked good from the outside :-) .. you may also be able to reach the backside of the beam, the side the tabs of the beam bolt on, through a gap from the original head exit throughhull space. the beam rots for three reasons on the cals,(I'm sure most already know this) one is the icebox drain tube which runs right onto it on that side, then the weephole in the floorpan for shower, etc. that goes there and then the forward water also runs down under and tends to coagulate there due to debris, dust, etc. Any drainage should be retrofit if possible through tubing, etc. to pump sumps like the showerstyle to overboard, rather than slosh about the hull before it finally gets to the bilge pump.(ideally anyway, not very easy). There is plenty of room to add new shoulder braces to the upper radiii corners of the roof that you could glass and tab in with a crossbrace, then later when you demast(on purpose) you can add the correct shape to the top after you raise and rebuild the roof line. If and when you do this, you can then cut in from the top and when your new roof is done, you can buy new nonskid patterns to match original if you choose. You may also want to be sure your companionway roof is easy to operate, it could have signs of sagging there, meaning you may spend a couple of weeks doing the entire roof to your improved design. that would also be the time to fix the beam. Helen (we want to redo our beam also, be glad it's a cal, there are lots of much worse boats by other builders in much worse shape due to bad thinking). From: Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 16, 2013 2:31:58 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam replacement? That's what I was afraid of... The beam is still on the table, it's definitely on the way out, even if it looks workable for now. Re-coring the roof would mean the mast has to come down, which means it has to go the yard, which means lots of down time... I was hoping to put this off till next winter. Maybe I could add some temporary horizontal support beams under the roof... On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:25 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > >Alex - >It doesn't have to be rotten to sag (which is why you steam wood to bend >it) and if it's damp you have a problem that needs to be addressed as it will >never dry out. Looks like it may be a "while you're at it" project when you >replace the beam if that is still the plan. > > >Paul > >In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:18:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > >>The deck is plywood sandwich. The door is right under the mast, along with a >>teak support beam. >> >>It feels pretty solid. I drilled a small hole in the cabin roof next to the >>hatch (where I thought it was most likely wet), but the wood came out just a >>little damp, definitely not rotten. Tried the knock test from above, but i >>can't really make sense of the difference in sound. There was no buzzing >>sounds, which I've been told are indications of delamination. >> >> >>On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>>Alex - >>>I am not at all familiar with your boat but if the wood in the >>>cabintop/roof/deck/celiling (whatever the correct term is) is saturated it >>>could sag regardless of the condition of the beam. How does it feel when >>>you walk on it? >>> >>>Paul >>> >>>In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:07:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>>kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >>> >>>>Well, I inspected the beam with a scope yesterday. There's about 2-3 >>>>inches of rust (height-wise) on the bottom, but it doesn't look like it is >>>>rusted through. The scope actually didn't help much, but I managed to get >>>>my hand in the middle and port side of the beam and scrape the rust off a >>>>little bit. >>>> >>>>So, if not the beam, what else could've caused the roof to sag? There's >>>>the crack at the hatch entry point, plus the door to the head compartment >>>>is jammed, so there's definitely something wrong... >>>> >>>>Cheers, >>>>Alex. >>>> >>>>--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Alex Kunadze wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well, my arms are not that long, but I did get a cheap USB scope >>>>>yesterday >>>>> and will poke around there in the next few days. Maybe I can get it in >>>>>from >>>>> the bilge as you suggest, as well as from the port side settee. >>>>> >>>>> The more I think about it, the more the cabin roof worries me. Even >>>>>though >>>>> the beam seems like a nasty project, it's at least more or less a >>>known >>>>> quantity. But the roof... I just hope it's not rotten and can be >>fixed >>>>> without tearing the boat in half. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > ** >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Jim offered:**** >>>>> > >>>>> > ** ** >>>>> > >>>>> > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is >>>>> > collapsing.**** >>>>> > >>>>> > ** ** >>>>> > >>>>> > If you've got long arms, you can reach up from the bilge access in >>>>the >>>>> > main saloon floor and feel around for large lumps of rusted steel. >>>>>Visual >>>>> > inspection of the three tabs (two to port, one to starboard) at the >>>>>base of >>>>> > the main bulkhead can also reveal damage. You probably don't need a >>>>>scope >>>>> > to make a first-approximation inspection.**** >>>>> > >>>>> > ** ** >>>>> > >>>>> > Alfred Poor**** >>>>> > >>>>> > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"**** >>>>> > >>>>> > (former owner of 1969 Cal 29 #132 "Pentaquod" and beam-replacement >>>>>veteran) >>>>> > **** >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>

Thanks Helen, I'll take a closer look at the bulkhead. They seemed OK when I was checking the boat over at first, but I wasn't very thorough in my inspection. The door to the head can't slide open all the way, the upper rail has sagged on the port side. I didn't know any better when I was buying the boat, but I'm not very pleased with the surveyor right now. The original head through hull is still there, so I was able to get to the port side and middle of the beam with my hands. There was rust, but it didn't look like it went through the beam. Companion way hatch works fine, keeping my fingers crossed the deck is wet only in the forward section. I took her out for a little sail yesterday. Wind was in the teens apparently, she seemed to handle it fine. I looked over the roof after getting back to port, no change, so I'm hoping I won't have to deal with the roof right away. Am I being too optimistic? Is there potential for serious damage if I keep sailing? I really don't want to take a big chunk out of the season, but I don't want to destroy the boat either... Cheers, Alex. On Feb 18, 2013 12:51 PM, "Helen Horn" <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > ** > > > have you inspected all the tabbing on the two bulkheads that frame the > head cmptmt? I once saw a cal 29 at pt.molate(sp) that had the coach roof > tabbing broken loose all the way from the top down past the deck > line...looked like it had been dismasted and or rolled (beached) and i > didn't look for it until i couldn't slide the door...yikes. it was > advertised so cheap (over 10 years ago) I went to look to see if it was > good for parts, they never said it had problems, just no motor. run, don't > walk I said. it looked good from the outside :-) .. you may also be able > to reach the backside of the beam, the side the tabs of the beam bolt on, > through a gap from the original head exit throughhull space. the beam rots > for three reasons on the cals,(I'm sure most already know this) one is the > icebox drain tube which runs right onto it on that side, then the weephole > in the floorpan for shower, etc. that goes there and then the forward water > also runs down under and tends to coagulate there due to debris, dust, etc. > Any drainage should be retrofit if possible through tubing, etc. to pump > sumps like the showerstyle to overboard, rather than slosh about the hull > before it finally gets to the bilge pump.(ideally anyway, not very easy). > There is plenty of room to add new shoulder braces to the upper radiii > corners of the roof that you could glass and tab in with a crossbrace, then > later when you demast(on purpose) you can add the correct shape to the top > after you raise and rebuild the roof line. If and when you do this, you can > then cut in from the top and when your new roof is done, you can buy new > nonskid patterns to match original if you choose. You may also want to be > sure your companionway roof is easy to operate, it could have signs of > sagging there, meaning you may spend a couple of weeks doing the entire > roof to your improved design. that would also be the time to fix the beam. > Helen (we want to redo our beam also, be glad it's a cal, there are lots of > much worse boats by other builders in much worse shape due to bad thinking). > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sat, February 16, 2013 2:31:58 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Is it time for the dreaded beam > replacement? > > > > That's what I was afraid of... The beam is still on the table, it's > definitely on the way out, even if it looks workable for now. Re-coring the > roof would mean the mast has to come down, which means it has to go the > yard, which means lots of down time... I was hoping to put this off till > next winter. Maybe I could add some temporary horizontal support beams > under the roof... > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:25 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> ** >> Alex - >> >> It doesn't have to be rotten to sag (which is why you steam wood to bend >> it) and if it's damp you have a problem that needs to be addressed as it >> will never dry out. Looks like it may be a "while you're at it" project >> when you replace the beam if that is still the plan. >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:18:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >> The deck is plywood sandwich. The door is right under the mast, along >> with a teak support beam. >> >> It feels pretty solid. I drilled a small hole in the cabin roof next to >> the hatch (where I thought it was most likely wet), but the wood came out >> just a little damp, definitely not rotten. Tried the knock test from above, >> but i can't really make sense of the difference in sound. There was no >> buzzing sounds, which I've been told are indications of delamination. >> >> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> ** >>> Alex - >>> >>> I am not at all familiar with your boat but if the wood in the >>> cabintop/roof/deck/celiling (whatever the correct term is) is saturated it >>> could sag regardless of the condition of the beam. How does it feel when >>> you walk on it? >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> In a message dated 2/16/2013 5:07:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Well, I inspected the beam with a scope yesterday. There's about 2-3 >>> inches of rust (height-wise) on the bottom, but it doesn't look like it is >>> rusted through. The scope actually didn't help much, but I managed to get >>> my hand in the middle and port side of the beam and scrape the rust off a >>> little bit. >>> >>> So, if not the beam, what else could've caused the roof to sag? There's >>> the crack at the hatch entry point, plus the door to the head compartment >>> is jammed, so there's definitely something wrong... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alex. >>> >>> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Alex Kunadze wrote: >>> > >>> > Well, my arms are not that long, but I did get a cheap USB scope >>> yesterday >>> > and will poke around there in the next few days. Maybe I can get it in >>> from >>> > the bilge as you suggest, as well as from the port side settee. >>> > >>> > The more I think about it, the more the cabin roof worries me. Even >>> though >>> > the beam seems like a nasty project, it's at least more or less a known >>> > quantity. But the roof... I just hope it's not rotten and can be fixed >>> > without tearing the boat in half. >>> > >>> > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Alfred Poor wrote: >>> > >>> > > ** >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Jim offered:**** >>> > > >>> > > ** ** >>> > > >>> > > > I would get a scope and try to check the beam to see if it is >>> > > collapsing.**** >>> > > >>> > > ** ** >>> > > >>> > > If you've got long arms, you can reach up from the bilge access in >>> the >>> > > main saloon floor and feel around for large lumps of rusted steel. >>> Visual >>> > > inspection of the three tabs (two to port, one to starboard) at the >>> base of >>> > > the main bulkhead can also reveal damage. You probably don't need a >>> scope >>> > > to make a first-approximation inspection.**** >>> > > >>> > > ** ** >>> > > >>> > > Alfred Poor**** >>> > > >>> > > 1973 Tartan 34C #288 "Jambalaya"**** >>> > > >>> > > (former owner of 1969 Cal 29 #132 "Pentaquod" and beam-replacement >>> veteran) >>> > > **** >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> >> > >