Cal 29 Beam Construction 316 vs 304 stainless

Just heard back from my buddy re: the beam construction. The drawing calls for 316 stainless and he is having a hard time locating it in our area but can get 304. If 304 is okay for you guys he can get you a price pretty quick. If 316 is absolutely necessary I assume he can still get you a price but I'm guessing it will be higher as it will take more time to locate and then ship. Below is the difference between the two alloys. Let me know what you want me to tell him. Paul 304: The basic alloy. Type 304 (18-8) is an austenitic steel possessing a minimum of 18% chromium and 8% nickel, combined with a maximum of 0.08% carbon. It is a nonmagnetic steel which cannot be hardened by heat treatment, but instead. must be cold worked to obtain higher tensile strengths. The 18% minimum chromium content provides corrosion and oxidation resistance. The alloy's metallurgical characteristics are established primarily by the nickel content (8% mm.), which also extends resistance to corrosion caused by reducing chemicals. Carbon, a necessity of mixed benefit, is held at a level (0.08% max.) that is satisfactory for most service applications. The stainless alloy resists most oxidizing acids and can withstand all ordinary rusting. HOWEVER, IT WILL TARNISH. It is immune to foodstuffs, sterilizing solutions, most of the organic chemicals and dyestuffs, and a wide variety of inorganic chemicals. Type 304, or one of its modifications, is the material specified more than 50% of the time whenever a stainless steel is used. Because of its ability to withstand the corrosive action of various acids found in fruits, meats, milk, and vegetables, Type 304 is used for sinks, tabletops, coffee urns, stoves, refrigerators, milk and cream dispensers, and steam tables. It is also used in numerous other utensils such as cooking appliances, pots, pans, and flatware. Type 304 is especially suited for all types of dairy equipment - milking machines, containers, homogenizers, sterilizers, and storage and hauling tanks, including piping, valves, milk trucks and railroad cars. This 18-8 alloy is equally serviceable in the brewing industry where it is used in pipelines, yeast pans, fermentation vats, storage and railway cars, etc. The citrus and fruit juice industry also uses Type 304 for all their handling, crushing, preparation, storage and hauling equipment. In those food processing applications such as in mills, bakeries, and slaughter and packing houses, all metal equipment exposed to animal and vegetable oils, fats, and acids is manufactured from Type 304. Type 304 is also used for the dye tanks, pipelines buckets, dippers, etc. that come in contact with the lormic, acetic, and other organic acids used in the dyeing industry. In the marine environment, because of it slightly higher strength and wear resistance than type 316 it is also used for nuts, bolts, screws, and other fasteners. It is also used for springs, cogs, and other components where both wear and corrosion resistance is needed. Type Analysis of Stainless Type 304 Carbon 0.08% max. Silicon 1.00% max. Manganese 2.00% max. Chromium 18.00-20.00% Phosphorus 0.045% max. Nickel 8.00-10.50% Sulfur 0.030% max. 316: For severe environments. Of course, there are many industrial processes that require a higher level of resistance to corrosion than Type 304 can offer. For these applications, Type 316 is the answer. Type 316 is also austenitic, non-magnetic, and thermally nonhardenable stainless steel like Type 304. The carbon content is held to 0.08% maximum, while the nickel content is increased slightly. What distinguishes Type 316 from Type 304 is the addition of molybdenum up to a maximum of 3%. Molybdenum increases the corrosion resistance of this chromium-nickel alloy to withstand attack by many industrial chemicals and solvents, and, in particular, inhibits pitting caused by chlorides. As such, molybdenum is one of the single most useful alloying additives in the fight against corrosion. By virtue of the molybdenum addition, Type 316 can withstand corrosive attack by sodium and calcium brines, hypochlorite solutions, phosphoric acid; and the sulfite liquors and sulfurous acids used in the paper pulp industry. This alloy, therefore, is specified for industrial equipment that handles the corrosive process chemicals used to produce inks, rayons, photographic chemicals, paper, textiles, bleaches, and rubber. Type 316 is also used extensively for surgical implants within the hostile environment of the body. Type 316 is the main stainless used in the marine environment, with the exception of fasteners and other items where strength and wear resistance are needed, then Type 304 (18-8) is typically used. Type Analysis of Stainless Type 316: Carbon 0.08% max. Silicon 1.00% max. Manganese 2.00% max. Chromium 16.00-18.00% Phosphorus 0.045% max. Nickel 10.00-14.00% Sulfur 0.030% max. Molybdenum 2.00-3.00%

Having dealt with both (marine and food), I would think that in this particular application 304 would suffice. It will get some surface rust on it eventually, but it won't rust through for many many years. Just my .02 worth. Greg From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 29 Beam Construction 316 vs 304 stainless Just heard back from my buddy re: the beam construction. The drawing calls for 316 stainless and he is having a hard time locating it in our area but can get 304. If 304 is okay for you guys he can get you a price pretty quick. If 316 is absolutely necessary I assume he can still get you a price but I'm guessing it will be higher as it will take more time to locate and then ship. Below is the difference between the two alloys. Let me know what you want me to tell him. Paul 304: The basic alloy. Type 304 (18-8) is an austenitic steel possessing a minimum of 18% chromium and 8% nickel, combined with a maximum of 0.08% carbon. It is a nonmagnetic steel which cannot be hardened by heat treatment, but instead. must be cold worked to obtain higher tensile strengths.The 18% minimum chromium content provides corrosion and oxidation resistance. The alloy's metallurgical characteristics are established primarily by the nickel content (8% mm.), which also extends resistance to corrosion caused by reducing chemicals. Carbon, a necessity of mixed benefit, is held at a level (0.08% max.) that is satisfactory for most service applications.The stainless alloy resists most oxidizing acids and can withstand all ordinary rusting. HOWEVER, IT WILL TARNISH. It is immune to foodstuffs, sterilizing solutions, most of the organic chemicals and dyestuffs, and a wide variety of inorganic chemicals. Type 304, or one of its modifications, is the material specified more than 50% of the time whenever a stainless steel is used.Because of its ability to withstand the corrosive action of various acids found in fruits, meats, milk, and vegetables, Type 304 is used for sinks, tabletops, coffee urns, stoves, refrigerators, milk and cream dispensers, and steam tables. It is also used in numerous other utensils such as cooking appliances, pots, pans, and flatware.Type 304 is especially suited for all types of dairy equipment - milking machines, containers, homogenizers, sterilizers, and storage and hauling tanks, including piping, valves, milk trucks and railroad cars. This 18-8 alloy is equally serviceable in the brewing industry where it is used in pipelines, yeast pans, fermentation vats, storage and railway cars, etc. The citrus and fruit juice industry also uses Type 304 for all their handling, crushing, preparation, storage and hauling equipment.In those food processing applications such as in mills, bakeries, and slaughter and packing houses, all metal equipment exposed to animal and vegetable oils, fats, and acids is manufactured from Type 304.Type 304 is also used for the dye tanks, pipelines buckets, dippers, etc. that come in contact with the lormic, acetic, and other organic acids used in the dyeing industry.In the marine environment, because of it slightly higher strength and wear resistance than type 316 it is also used for nuts, bolts, screws, and other fasteners. It is also used for springs, cogs, and other components where both wear and corrosion resistance is needed. Type Analysis of Stainless Type 304 Carbon 0.08% max. Silicon 1.00% max. Manganese 2.00% max. Chromium 18.00-20.00% Phosphorus 0.045% max. Nickel 8.00-10.50% Sulfur 0.030% max. 316:For severe environments. Of course, there are many industrial processes that require a higher level of resistance to corrosion than Type 304 can offer. For these applications, Type 316 is the answer.Type 316 is also austenitic, non-magnetic, and thermally nonhardenable stainless steel like Type 304. The carbon content is held to 0.08% maximum, while the nickel content is increased slightly. What distinguishes Type 316 from Type 304 is the addition of molybdenum up to a maximum of 3%.Molybdenum increases the corrosion resistance of this chromium-nickel alloy to withstand attack by many industrial chemicals and solvents, and, in particular, inhibits pitting caused by chlorides. As such, molybdenum is one of the single most useful alloying additives in the fight against corrosion.By virtue of the molybdenum addition, Type 316 can withstand corrosive attack by sodium and calcium brines, hypochlorite solutions, phosphoric acid; and the sulfite liquors and sulfurous acids used in the paper pulp industry. This alloy, therefore, is specified for industrial equipment that handles the corrosive process chemicals used to produce inks, rayons, photographic chemicals, paper, textiles, bleaches, and rubber. Type 316 is also used extensively for surgical implants within the hostile environment of the body.Type 316 is the main stainless used in the marine environment, with the exception of fasteners and other items where strength and wear resistance are needed, then Type 304 (18-8) is typically used. Type Analysis of Stainless Type 316: Carbon 0.08% max. Silicon 1.00% max. Manganese 2.00% max. Chromium 16.00-18.00% Phosphorus 0.045% max. Nickel 10.00-14.00% Sulfur 0.030% max. Molybdenum 2.00-3.00%

Fellow listees, I am a Marine and Mechanical Engineer and have spent over 30 years now designing equipment to go on ships, submarines, etc. I wouldn't use 304 in this application. In fact, I wouldn't use 316 because there's welding involved. It should be 316L (although 316L has mostly replaced 316 anyway). It also has to be passivated after fabrication, a fairly simple process which corrects metallurgical changes caused by bending and welding which make affected areas vulnerable to corrosion. Also be very careful in fabrication and handling not to contaminate the surface with particles which can become nucleation points for corrosion. This can happen when someone uses abrasives or tooling on stainless steel which have been used on steel parts, causing contamination of the stainless, or when someone grinds or welds on a steel part in the vicinity of a stainless part, causing debris to become embedded in the stainless. Someone can leave a steel tool, oil or paint can, etc. on a stainless surface long enough for it to rust and affect the stainless. If you're really interested there is lots of good information on the Nickel Institute web site, such as http://www.nickelinstitute.org/TechnicalLiterature/INCO%20Series/1259_TheSuccessfulUseofAusteniticStainlessSteelsinSeawater.aspx Didn't mean for this to get so involved, but it's worth the extra cost to get it built out of 316L given the amount of labor involved to remove the old beam and install the new one. Take good care of your Cals for yourself and the many generations of future owners who will care for her! George From: pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Thu 2/21/2013 8:10 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 29 Beam Construction 316 vs 304 stainless Just heard back from my buddy re: the beam construction. The drawing calls for 316 stainless and he is having a hard time locating it in our area but can get 304. If 304 is okay for you guys he can get you a price pretty quick. If 316 is absolutely necessary I assume he can still get you a price but I'm guessing it will be higher as it will take more time to locate and then ship. Below is the difference between the two alloys. Let me know what you want me to tell him. Paul 304: The basic alloy. Type 304 (18-8) is an austenitic steel possessing a minimum of 18% chromium and 8% nickel, combined with a maximum of 0.08% carbon. It is a nonmagnetic steel which cannot be hardened by heat treatment, but instead. must be cold worked to obtain higher tensile strengths. The 18% minimum chromium content provides corrosion and oxidation resistance. The alloy's metallurgical characteristics are established primarily by the nickel content (8% mm.), which also extends resistance to corrosion caused by reducing chemicals. Carbon, a necessity of mixed benefit, is held at a level (0.08% max.) that is satisfactory for most service applications. The stainless alloy resists most oxidizing acids and can withstand all ordinary rusting. HOWEVER, IT WILL TARNISH. It is immune to foodstuffs, sterilizing solutions, most of the organic chemicals and dyestuffs, and a wide variety of inorganic chemicals. Type 304, or one of its modifications, is the material specified more than 50% of the time whenever a stainless steel is used. Because of its ability to withstand the corrosive action of various acids found in fruits, meats, milk, and vegetables, Type 304 is used for sinks, tabletops, coffee urns, stoves, refrigerators, milk and cream dispensers, and steam tables. It is also used in numerous other utensils such as cooking appliances, pots, pans, and flatware. Type 304 is especially suited for all types of dairy equipment - milking machines, containers, homogenizers, sterilizers, and storage and hauling tanks, including piping, valves, milk trucks and railroad cars. This 18-8 alloy is equally serviceable in the brewing industry where it is used in pipelines, yeast pans, fermentation vats, storage and railway cars, etc. The citrus and fruit juice industry also uses Type 304 for all their handling, crushing, preparation, storage and hauling equipment. In those food processing applications such as in mills, bakeries, and slaughter and packing houses, all metal equipment exposed to animal and vegetable oils, fats, and acids is manufactured from Type 304. Type 304 is also used for the dye tanks, pipelines buckets, dippers, etc. that come in contact with the lormic, acetic, and other organic acids used in the dyeing industry. In the marine environment, because of it slightly higher strength and wear resistance than type 316 it is also used for nuts, bolts, screws, and other fasteners. It is also used for springs, cogs, and other components where both wear and corrosion resistance is needed. Type Analysis of Stainless Type 304 Carbon0.08% max.Silicon 1.00% max. Manganese2.00% max.Chromium 18.00-20.00% Phosphorus0.045% max.Nickel 8.00-10.50% Sulfur 0.030% max. 316: For severe environments. Of course, there are many industrial processes that require a higher level of resistance to corrosion than Type 304 can offer. For these applications, Type 316 is the answer. Type 316 is also austenitic, non-magnetic, and thermally nonhardenable stainless steel like Type 304. The carbon content is held to 0.08% maximum, while the nickel content is increased slightly. What distinguishes Type 316 from Type 304 is the addition of molybdenum up to a maximum of 3%. Molybdenum increases the corrosion resistance of this chromium-nickel alloy to withstand attack by many industrial chemicals and solvents, and, in particular, inhibits pitting caused by chlorides. As such, molybdenum is one of the single most useful alloying additives in the fight against corrosion. By virtue of the molybdenum addition, Type 316 can withstand corrosive attack by sodium and calcium brines, hypochlorite solutions, phosphoric acid; and the sulfite liquors and sulfurous acids used in the paper pulp industry. This alloy, therefore, is specified for industrial equipment that handles the corrosive process chemicals used to produce inks, rayons, photographic chemicals, paper, textiles, bleaches, and rubber. Type 316 is also used extensively for surgical implants within the hostile environment of the body. Type 316 is the main stainless used in the marine environment, with the exception of fasteners and other items where strength and wear resistance are needed, then Type 304 (18-8) is typically used. Type Analysis of Stainless Type 316: Carbon0.08% max.Silicon 1.00% max. Manganese 2.00% max.Chromium 16.00-18.00% Phosphorus 0.045% max.Nickel 10.00-14.00% Sulfur 0.030% max.Molybdenum 2.00-3.00%