Moving chain plates outboard

Hi, It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? Cheers, Alex.

I believe the Cal 29 is one of beam boats. So the shroud tension goes into the bulkhead which is connected to the steel beam which is now pulling up on the compression post and so to the mast resolving the forces. The hull is pretty much only having to deal with the righting forces, not the vertical components of the load from the rig. It could very well be that Cals are built strong enough you could put the shrouds anywhere you wanted, though I would wonder if now that you're pulling up and in on the hull if you're not trying to pull the sides of the hull in which it might not be adequately reinforced for. Could start to deform the deck, and/or pull out tabbing on the bulkhead. Maybe more tabbing on the bulkheads would help. That is one area Cals are known to be underbuilt. I've had to re-tab some bulkheads on a Cal 34 and there's a couple of places I need to get to on my 40. John From: Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:25 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Moving chain plates outboard Hi, It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? Cheers, Alex.

I have replaced one main bulkhead in my Cal 28. I have photos of the project to date under "Cal 28 Knackered" in the photos section of this list. It's a job. If you wanted to, you could consider removing the chain plate, filling all the failed holes with thickened epoxy, cleaning out the through-hull thoroughly with a sawzall or router, then reinstalling the chain plate through the new epoxy. For super safety, you could epoxy a sister bulkhead onto the bulkhead. Or add a backing plate to the bulkhead that has the failing chainplate. The chainplate, once installed will need to be rebedded to eliminate the leak. It can be done but you must be patient. Just putting more goop on the joint won't work. No opinion on hull mounting. The previous post made the point: The stays pull up on the bulkhead and the deck to form a unit just like a banjo or violin neck. George Knackered Fort Worth, Tx --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: > > I believe the Cal 29 is one of beam boats. So the shroud tension goes into the bulkhead which is connected to the steel beam which is now pulling up on the compression post and so to the mast resolving the forces. The hull is pretty much only having to deal with the righting forces, not the vertical components of the load from the rig.  It could very well be that Cals are built strong enough you could put the shrouds anywhere you wanted, though I would wonder if now that you're pulling up and in on the hull if you're not trying to pull the sides of the hull in which it might not be adequately reinforced for. Could start to deform the deck, and/or pull out tabbing on the bulkhead. Maybe more tabbing on the bulkheads would help. That is one area Cals are known to be underbuilt. I've had to re-tab some bulkheads on a Cal 34 and there's a couple of places I need to get to on my 40.   > > > John > > > > ________________________________ > From: Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:25 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Moving chain plates outboard > > >  > Hi, > It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? > Cheers, > Alex. >

John, your point is well taken. I haven't considered the change in forces. Perhaps it wold be better just to fix them as they are then... George, you weren't kidding, those photos look pretty scary. Hopefully I can avoid that much carnage, will see tomorrow when I pull the offending chain plate. Cheers, Alex. On Mar 9, 2013 10:33 AM, "geobarlow" <ge… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > I have replaced one main bulkhead in my Cal 28. I have photos of the > project to date under "Cal 28 Knackered" in the photos section of this > list. It's a job. > > If you wanted to, you could consider removing the chain plate, filling all > the failed holes with thickened epoxy, cleaning out the through-hull > thoroughly with a sawzall or router, then reinstalling the chain plate > through the new epoxy. For super safety, you could epoxy a sister bulkhead > onto the bulkhead. Or add a backing plate to the bulkhead that has the > failing chainplate. > > The chainplate, once installed will need to be rebedded to eliminate the > leak. It can be done but you must be patient. Just putting more goop on the > joint won't work. > > No opinion on hull mounting. The previous post made the point: The stays > pull up on the bulkhead and the deck to form a unit just like a banjo or > violin neck. > > George > Knackered > Fort Worth, Tx > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: > > > > I believe the Cal 29 is one of beam boats. So the shroud tension goes > into the bulkhead which is connected to the steel beam which is now pulling > up on the compression post and so to the mast resolving the forces. The > hull is pretty much only having to deal with the righting forces, not the > vertical components of the load from the rig.  It could very well be that > Cals are built strong enough you could put the shrouds anywhere you wanted, > though I would wonder if now that you're pulling up and in on the hull if > you're not trying to pull the sides of the hull in which it might not be > adequately reinforced for. Could start to deform the deck, and/or pull > out tabbing on the bulkhead. Maybe more tabbing on the bulkheads would > help. That is one area Cals are known to be underbuilt. I've had to > re-tab some bulkheads on a Cal 34 and there's a couple of places I need > to get to on my 40.   > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:25 PM > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Moving chain plates outboard > > > > > >  > > Hi, > > It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm > looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good > excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal > with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, > it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the > pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? > > Cheers, > > Alex. > > > > >

Good decision to keep them where they are. I really have no expertise to say why you should not move them but I had this nagging suspicion that if you moved them you would find out. Allen On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > ** > > > John, your point is well taken. I haven't considered the change in forces. > Perhaps it wold be better just to fix them as they are then... > > George, you weren't kidding, those photos look pretty scary. Hopefully I > can avoid that much carnage, will see tomorrow when I pull the offending > chain plate. > > Cheers, > Alex. > On Mar 9, 2013 10:33 AM, "geobarlow" <ge… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> I have replaced one main bulkhead in my Cal 28. I have photos of the >> project to date under "Cal 28 Knackered" in the photos section of this >> list. It's a job. >> >> If you wanted to, you could consider removing the chain plate, filling >> all the failed holes with thickened epoxy, cleaning out the through-hull >> thoroughly with a sawzall or router, then reinstalling the chain plate >> through the new epoxy. For super safety, you could epoxy a sister bulkhead >> onto the bulkhead. Or add a backing plate to the bulkhead that has the >> failing chainplate. >> >> The chainplate, once installed will need to be rebedded to eliminate the >> leak. It can be done but you must be patient. Just putting more goop on the >> joint won't work. >> >> No opinion on hull mounting. The previous post made the point: The stays >> pull up on the bulkhead and the deck to form a unit just like a banjo or >> violin neck. >> >> George >> Knackered >> Fort Worth, Tx >> >> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: >> > >> > I believe the Cal 29 is one of beam boats. So the shroud tension goes >> into the bulkhead which is connected to the steel beam which is now pulling >> up on the compression post and so to the mast resolving the forces. The >> hull is pretty much only having to deal with the righting forces, not the >> vertical components of the load from the rig.  It could very well be that >> Cals are built strong enough you could put the shrouds anywhere you wanted, >> though I would wonder if now that you're pulling up and in on the hull if >> you're not trying to pull the sides of the hull in which it might not be >> adequately reinforced for. Could start to deform the deck, and/or pull >> out tabbing on the bulkhead. Maybe more tabbing on the bulkheads would >> help. That is one area Cals are known to be underbuilt. I've had to >> re-tab some bulkheads on a Cal 34 and there's a couple of places I need >> to get to on my 40.   >> > >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> >> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:25 PM >> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Moving chain plates outboard >> > >> > >> >  >> > Hi, >> > It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm >> looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good >> excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal >> with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, >> it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the >> pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? >> > Cheers, >> > Alex. >> > >> >> >

I've archived photos as well as others under sv Thalia. Plenty of experience of either scarfing a replacement section or complete bulkhead replacement to help reinforce chain plate. I'm with the others on a " no move" decision. Good luck. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> wrote: > > Good decision to keep them where they are. I really have no expertise to > say why you should not move them but I had this nagging suspicion that if > you moved them you would find out. > > Allen > > On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > John, your point is well taken. I haven't considered the change in forces. > > Perhaps it wold be better just to fix them as they are then... > > > > George, you weren't kidding, those photos look pretty scary. Hopefully I > > can avoid that much carnage, will see tomorrow when I pull the offending > > chain plate. > > > > Cheers, > > Alex. > > On Mar 9, 2013 10:33 AM, "geobarlow" <geobarlow@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> I have replaced one main bulkhead in my Cal 28. I have photos of the > >> project to date under "Cal 28 Knackered" in the photos section of this > >> list. It's a job. > >> > >> If you wanted to, you could consider removing the chain plate, filling > >> all the failed holes with thickened epoxy, cleaning out the through-hull > >> thoroughly with a sawzall or router, then reinstalling the chain plate > >> through the new epoxy. For super safety, you could epoxy a sister bulkhead > >> onto the bulkhead. Or add a backing plate to the bulkhead that has the > >> failing chainplate. > >> > >> The chainplate, once installed will need to be rebedded to eliminate the > >> leak. It can be done but you must be patient. Just putting more goop on the > >> joint won't work. > >> > >> No opinion on hull mounting. The previous post made the point: The stays > >> pull up on the bulkhead and the deck to form a unit just like a banjo or > >> violin neck. > >> > >> George > >> Knackered > >> Fort Worth, Tx > >> > >> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@> wrote: > >> > > >> > I believe the Cal 29 is one of beam boats. So the shroud tension goes > >> into the bulkhead which is connected to the steel beam which is now pulling > >> up on the compression post and so to the mast resolving the forces. The > >> hull is pretty much only having to deal with the righting forces, not the > >> vertical components of the load from the rig.  It could very well be that > >> Cals are built strong enough you could put the shrouds anywhere you wanted, > >> though I would wonder if now that you're pulling up and in on the hull if > >> you're not trying to pull the sides of the hull in which it might not be > >> adequately reinforced for. Could start to deform the deck, and/or pull > >> out tabbing on the bulkhead. Maybe more tabbing on the bulkheads would > >> help. That is one area Cals are known to be underbuilt. I've had to > >> re-tab some bulkheads on a Cal 34 and there's a couple of places I need > >> to get to on my 40.   > >> > > >> > > >> > John > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: Alex Kunadze <krollokot@> > >> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > >> > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:25 PM > >> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Moving chain plates outboard > >> > > >> > > >> >  > >> > Hi, > >> > It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm > >> looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good > >> excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal > >> with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, > >> it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the > >> pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? > >> > Cheers, > >> > Alex. > >> > > >> > >> > > >

Met a guy in the boat yard who gutted his 29 and moved the chainplates to the topsides. He heavily reinforced the hull for stiffness and to back the chainplates. It was a lot more difficult job than scarfing in some new bulkhead and it added weight to the boat. You are getting good advice re: repair versus re-engineer. Wilkie On Mar 10, 2013, at 9:39 AM, James <ja… [at] mac.com> wrote: I've archived photos as well as others under sv Thalia. Plenty of experience of either scarfing a replacement section or complete bulkhead replacement to help reinforce chain plate. I'm with the others on a " no move" decision. Good luck. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> wrote: > > Good decision to keep them where they are. I really have no expertise to > say why you should not move them but I had this nagging suspicion that if > you moved them you would find out. > > Allen > > On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> John, your point is well taken. I haven't considered the change in forces. >> Perhaps it wold be better just to fix them as they are then... >> >> George, you weren't kidding, those photos look pretty scary. Hopefully I >> can avoid that much carnage, will see tomorrow when I pull the offending >> chain plate. >> >> Cheers, >> Alex. >> On Mar 9, 2013 10:33 AM, "geobarlow" <geobarlow@...> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> I have replaced one main bulkhead in my Cal 28. I have photos of the >>> project to date under "Cal 28 Knackered" in the photos section of this >>> list. It's a job. >>> >>> If you wanted to, you could consider removing the chain plate, filling >>> all the failed holes with thickened epoxy, cleaning out the through-hull >>> thoroughly with a sawzall or router, then reinstalling the chain plate >>> through the new epoxy. For super safety, you could epoxy a sister bulkhead >>> onto the bulkhead. Or add a backing plate to the bulkhead that has the >>> failing chainplate. >>> >>> The chainplate, once installed will need to be rebedded to eliminate the >>> leak. It can be done but you must be patient. Just putting more goop on the >>> joint won't work. >>> >>> No opinion on hull mounting. The previous post made the point: The stays >>> pull up on the bulkhead and the deck to form a unit just like a banjo or >>> violin neck. >>> >>> George >>> Knackered >>> Fort Worth, Tx >>> >>> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@> wrote: >>>> >>>> I believe the Cal 29 is one of beam boats. So the shroud tension goes >>> into the bulkhead which is connected to the steel beam which is now pulling >>> up on the compression post and so to the mast resolving the forces. The >>> hull is pretty much only having to deal with the righting forces, not the >>> vertical components of the load from the rig.  It could very well be that >>> Cals are built strong enough you could put the shrouds anywhere you wanted, >>> though I would wonder if now that you're pulling up and in on the hull if >>> you're not trying to pull the sides of the hull in which it might not be >>> adequately reinforced for. Could start to deform the deck, and/or pull >>> out tabbing on the bulkhead. Maybe more tabbing on the bulkheads would >>> help. That is one area Cals are known to be underbuilt. I've had to >>> re-tab some bulkheads on a Cal 34 and there's a couple of places I need >>> to get to on my 40.   >>>> >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Alex Kunadze <krollokot@> >>>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>>> Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:25 PM >>>> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Moving chain plates outboard >>>> >>>> >>>>  >>>> Hi, >>>> It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm >>> looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good >>> excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal >>> with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, >>> it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the >>> pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alex. >>>> >>> >>> >> > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

My Cal 24 has bronze chain plates fiberglassed into the hull. Probably the boat's deck it responsible for preventing the hull from flexing inward. The deck and hull are joined with a vertical lip which is glued and copper riveted together. I've seen retro jobs where rebuilders install the chain plates to the outside of the hulls, but I'm not sure which boat, or whether it was done to a Cal, specifically. Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Moving chain plates outboard Good decision to keep them where they are. I really have no expertise to say why you should not move them but I had this nagging suspicion that if you moved them you would find out. Allen On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Alex Kunadze <kr… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > >John, your point is well taken. I haven't considered the change in forces. Perhaps it wold be better just to fix them as they are then... >George, you weren't kidding, those photos look pretty scary. Hopefully I can avoid that much carnage, will see tomorrow when I pull the offending chain plate. >Cheers, >Alex. >On Mar 9, 2013 10:33 AM, "geobarlow" <ge… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> >>I have replaced one main bulkhead in my Cal 28. I have photos of the project to date under "Cal 28 Knackered" in the photos section of this list. It's a job. >> >>If you wanted to, you could consider removing the chain plate, filling all the failed holes with thickened epoxy, cleaning out the through-hull thoroughly with a sawzall or router, then reinstalling the chain plate through the new epoxy. For super safety, you could epoxy a sister bulkhead onto the bulkhead. Or add a backing plate to the bulkhead that has the failing chainplate. >> >>The chainplate, once installed will need to be rebedded to eliminate the leak. It can be done but you must be patient. Just putting more goop on the joint won't work. >> >>No opinion on hull mounting. The previous post made the point: The stays pull up on the bulkhead and the deck to form a unit just like a banjo or violin neck. >> >>George >>Knackered >>Fort Worth, Tx >> >>--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@...> wrote: >>> >>> I believe the Cal 29 is one of beam boats. So the shroud tension goes into the bulkhead which is connected to the steel beam which is now pulling up on the compression post and so to the mast resolving the forces. The hull is pretty much only having to deal with the righting forces, not the vertical components of the load from the rig.  It could very well be that Cals are built strong enough you could put the shrouds anywhere you wanted, though I would wonder if now that you're pulling up and in on the hull if you're not trying to pull the sides of the hull in which it might not be adequately reinforced for. Could start to deform the deck, and/or pull out tabbing on the bulkhead. Maybe more tabbing on the bulkheads would help. That is one area Cals are known to be underbuilt. I've had to re-tab some bulkheads on a Cal 34 and there's a couple of places I need to get to on my 40.   >>> >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> >>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:25 PM >>> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Moving chain plates outboard >>> >>> >>>  >>> Hi, >>> It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? >>> Cheers, >>> Alex. >>> >> >>

Another reason to keep the chain plates "inboard" is how close hauled you can get a genoa jib. If you moved them outboard you would not be able to put the any jib greater than 100% where you want it for close hauled sailing. Most modern sloops have the chain plates inboard for that reason. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Allen Edwards <allen.p.edwards@...> wrote: > > Good decision to keep them where they are. I really have no expertise to > say why you should not move them but I had this nagging suspicion that if > you moved them you would find out. > > Allen > > On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Alex Kunadze <krollokot@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > John, your point is well taken. I haven't considered the change in forces. > > Perhaps it wold be better just to fix them as they are then... > > > > George, you weren't kidding, those photos look pretty scary. Hopefully I > > can avoid that much carnage, will see tomorrow when I pull the offending > > chain plate. > > > > Cheers, > > Alex. > > On Mar 9, 2013 10:33 AM, "geobarlow" <geobarlow@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> I have replaced one main bulkhead in my Cal 28. I have photos of the > >> project to date under "Cal 28 Knackered" in the photos section of this > >> list. It's a job. > >> > >> If you wanted to, you could consider removing the chain plate, filling > >> all the failed holes with thickened epoxy, cleaning out the through-hull > >> thoroughly with a sawzall or router, then reinstalling the chain plate > >> through the new epoxy. For super safety, you could epoxy a sister bulkhead > >> onto the bulkhead. Or add a backing plate to the bulkhead that has the > >> failing chainplate. > >> > >> The chainplate, once installed will need to be rebedded to eliminate the > >> leak. It can be done but you must be patient. Just putting more goop on the > >> joint won't work. > >> > >> No opinion on hull mounting. The previous post made the point: The stays > >> pull up on the bulkhead and the deck to form a unit just like a banjo or > >> violin neck. > >> > >> George > >> Knackered > >> Fort Worth, Tx > >> > >> --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, John Courter <cal40john@> wrote: > >> > > >> > I believe the Cal 29 is one of beam boats. So the shroud tension goes > >> into the bulkhead which is connected to the steel beam which is now pulling > >> up on the compression post and so to the mast resolving the forces. The > >> hull is pretty much only having to deal with the righting forces, not the > >> vertical components of the load from the rig.  It could very well be that > >> Cals are built strong enough you could put the shrouds anywhere you wanted, > >> though I would wonder if now that you're pulling up and in on the hull if > >> you're not trying to pull the sides of the hull in which it might not be > >> adequately reinforced for. Could start to deform the deck, and/or pull > >> out tabbing on the bulkhead. Maybe more tabbing on the bulkheads would > >> help. That is one area Cals are known to be underbuilt. I've had to > >> re-tab some bulkheads on a Cal 34 and there's a couple of places I need > >> to get to on my 40.   > >> > > >> > > >> > John > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: Alex Kunadze <krollokot@> > >> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > >> > Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:25 PM > >> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Moving chain plates outboard > >> > > >> > > >> >  > >> > Hi, > >> > It looks like one of my chain plates is starting to pull out, so I'm > >> looking at rather mast project. But then I though that it might be a good > >> excuse to move the chain plates outboard all together and not have to deal > >> with leaks ever again. It would also give more room to move about on deck, > >> it's a little cramped on a Cal 29. So, I need some opinions, what are the > >> pros and cons of doing so, and how difficult of job is it? > >> > Cheers, > >> > Alex. > >> > > >> > >> > > >