Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about"

Greg - There are 3 of us on the list with '80 Cal 39's all on the east coast. The guy whose boat is in this month's Good Old Boat issue lives near me and I actually cleaned his fuel tank for him. He has a different layout than I do and his interior construction is worlds above mine and as I recall this was a time when they were switching builders and apparently mine was built by the new plant with no experience and they were trying to save a buck by using inexperienced help. My sole is also soft in spots and not well supported and the other boat's is solid as a rock. Galley drawers and other things inside again, are just worlds apart in construction quality. Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:04:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no… [at] yahoo.com writes: It's funny how my wife and I (in the middle of tearing out water tanks), were wondering how this boat got such a great build quality reputation. I think ours must have been one of those Friday afternoon completion jobs. Greg From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" <WBR Alex - Unfortunately the designer does not usually have any control over how the boat actually gets built. My '80 Cal 39 has a number of minor but irritating construction issues. I discovered that one of my stanchion bases never had any nuts on it and as a result, kept leaking into the cabinet just behind of the aft bulkhead of the head and rotted out the plywood. There was probably a the equivalent of 2 tubes of 4200 puddled up behind the lathework where someone had attempted to stop the leak at some point but never did a complete job of it. A friend of mine is good friends with Bob Perry and he laments about this frequently to him. Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 2:31:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: Hi, Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drill and pot the holes to the proper size and everything should be fine. While I was at it (famous last words), I've removed some trim pieces to look at the bulkhead under the mast and found that it's been messed with before. There's about an inch of epoxy between it and the roof, glass tape is missing on the head side in the middle, and a small area underneath the mast seems to be epoxied as well. I've attached a picture of it. Does that look fine, or should I stress about it? Cheers, Alex.

Alex These are old boats and try not to get so stressed. One thing to make a boat the way you want will cost time? money? and stress MY one cent Scott From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" Greg - There are 3 of us on the list with '80 Cal 39's all on the east coast. The guy whose boat is in this month's Good Old Boat issue lives near me and I actually cleaned his fuel tank for him. He has a different layout than I do and his interior construction is worlds above mine and as I recall this was a time when they were switching builders and apparently mine was built by the new plant with no experience and they were trying to save a buck by using inexperienced help. My sole is also soft in spots and not well supported and the other boat's is solid as a rock. Galley drawers and other things inside again, are just worlds apart in construction quality. Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:04:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no… [at] yahoo.com writes: >It's funny how my wife and I (in the middle of tearing out water tanks), were wondering how this boat got such a great build quality reputation. I think ours must have been one of those Friday afternoon completion jobs. > >Greg > > > >________________________________ >From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:40 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" > > >Alex - > >Unfortunately the designer does not usually have any control over how the boat actually gets built. My '80 Cal 39 has a number of minor but irritating construction issues. I discovered that one of my stanchion bases never had any nuts on it and as a result, kept leaking into the cabinet just behind of the aft bulkhead of the head and rotted out the plywood. There was probably a the equivalent of 2 tubes of 4200 puddled up behind the lathework where someone had attempted to stop the leak at some point but never did a complete job of it. > >A friend of mine is good friends with Bob Perry and he laments about this frequently to him. > >Paul > >In a message dated 3/12/2013 2:31:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > >>Hi,Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drill and pot the holes to the proper size and everything should be fine.While I was at it (famous last words), I've removed some trim pieces to look at the bulkhead under the mast and found that it's been messed with before. There's about an inch of epoxy between it and the roof, glass tape is missing on the head side in the middle, and a small area underneath the mast seems to be epoxied as well. I've attached a picture of it. Does that look fine, or should I stress about it?Cheers,Alex.

Paul, It is amazing how one area can be built like something out of a Swan, and then somewhere else you find galvanized sheet metal screws and different sized fasteners holding the same piece of equipment together. None of it really bothers me, because when we were sanding the bottom back to gel coat we could see the quality where it really counted. The standing rigging, hull lay-up, and even the rudder post are all pretty solid. And we are learning how to fiberglass, and fabricate all sorts of interesting things! Eventually we'll have rebuilt everything we care about and we'll have a $100k Cal 39. Greg From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" Greg - There are 3 of us on the list with '80 Cal 39's all on the east coast. The guy whose boat is in this month's Good Old Boat issue lives near me and I actually cleaned his fuel tank for him. He has a different layout than I do and his interior construction is worlds above mine and as I recall this was a time when they were switching builders and apparently mine was built by the new plant with no experience and they were trying to save a buck by using inexperienced help. My sole is also soft in spots and not well supported and the other boat's is solid as a rock. Galley drawers and other things inside again, are just worlds apart in construction quality. Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:04:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no… [at] yahoo.com writes: >It's funny how my wife and I (in the middle of tearing out water tanks), were wondering how this boat got such a great build quality reputation. I think ours must have been one of those Friday afternoon completion jobs. > >Greg > > > >________________________________ >From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:40 AM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" > > >Alex - > >Unfortunately the designer does not usually have any control over how the boat actually gets built. My '80 Cal 39 has a number of minor but irritating construction issues. I discovered that one of my stanchion bases never had any nuts on it and as a result, kept leaking into the cabinet just behind of the aft bulkhead of the head and rotted out the plywood. There was probably a the equivalent of 2 tubes of 4200 puddled up behind the lathework where someone had attempted to stop the leak at some point but never did a complete job of it. > >A friend of mine is good friends with Bob Perry and he laments about this frequently to him. > >Paul > >In a message dated 3/12/2013 2:31:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > >>Hi,Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drill and pot the holes to the proper size and everything should be fine.While I was at it (famous last words), I've removed some trim pieces to look at the bulkhead under the mast and found that it's been messed with before. There's about an inch of epoxy between it and the roof, glass tape is missing on the head side in the middle, and a small area underneath the mast seems to be epoxied as well. I've attached a picture of it. Does that look fine, or should I stress about it?Cheers,Alex.

Greg - Yeah the hull layup is solid and there are a lot of good things about the boat to be sure. The fact that I can keep up with a Tartan 10 (as long as I have 10kts of wind) that weighs less than my keel alone and have all the luxuries of home for a weekend cruise is great. For what it's worth I paid half of 100K but it doesn't look like it ;-). Misery loves company so here are some before and after pics of my bottom work. And if your wife gives you any grief there is a pic of my wife 7 mos pregnant working on the deck lol. Paul Had the boat power planed to remove 20+ yrs of cruiser paint and discovered a lot of work to be done. You know you got a good woman when . . . Bottom done!! The payoff - In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:33:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no… [at] yahoo.com writes: Paul, It is amazing how one area can be built like something out of a Swan, and then somewhere else you find galvanized sheet metal screws and different sized fasteners holding the same piece of equipment together. None of it really bothers me, because when we were sanding the bottom back to gel coat we could see the quality where it really counted. The standing rigging, hull lay-up, and even the rudder post are all pretty solid. And we are learning how to fiberglass, and fabricate all sorts of interesting things! Eventually we'll have rebuilt everything we care about and we'll have a $100k Cal 39. Greg From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" <WBR Greg - There are 3 of us on the list with '80 Cal 39's all on the east coast. The guy whose boat is in this month's Good Old Boat issue lives near me and I actually cleaned his fuel tank for him. He has a different layout than I do and his interior construction is worlds above mine and as I recall this was a time when they were switching builders and apparently mine was built by the new plant with no experience and they were trying to save a buck by using inexperienced help. My sole is also soft in spots and not well supported and the other boat's is solid as a rock. Galley drawers and other things inside again, are just worlds apart in construction quality. Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:04:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no… [at] yahoo.com writes: It's funny how my wife and I (in the middle of tearing out water tanks), were wondering how this boat got such a great build quality reputation. I think ours must have been one of those Friday afternoon completion jobs. Greg From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" Alex - Unfortunately the designer does not usually have any control over how the boat actually gets built. My '80 Cal 39 has a number of minor but irritating construction issues. I discovered that one of my stanchion bases never had any nuts on it and as a result, kept leaking into the cabinet just behind of the aft bulkhead of the head and rotted out the plywood. There was probably a the equivalent of 2 tubes of 4200 puddled up behind the lathework where someone had attempted to stop the leak at some point but never did a complete job of it. A friend of mine is good friends with Bob Perry and he laments about this frequently to him. Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 2:31:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: Hi,Hi,<WBR><WBR>Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drill and pot the holes to the proper size and everything shHi,<WBR><WBR>Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drilHi,<WBRHi,<W

Paul, Wow that is a lot material gone on the bow. It's good to know your wife is a happy participant (as is mine). Given we've only had the boat for 9 months we are mostly trying not to get overwhelmed and frustrated. It feels good to check off little things every weekend. BTW I would love to see your deck layout sometime. I'm still trying to work out mine in my head, but I always seem to have more winches and lines that I really like. Greg From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" Greg - Yeah the hull layup is solid and there are a lot of good things about the boat to be sure. The fact that I can keep up with a Tartan 10 (as long as I have 10kts of wind) that weighs less than my keel alone and have all the luxuries of home for a weekend cruise is great. For what it's worth I paid half of 100K but it doesn't look like it ;-). Misery loves company so here are some before and after pics of my bottom work. And if your wife gives you any grief there is a pic of my wife 7 mos pregnant working on the deck lol. Paul Had the boat power planed to remove 20+ yrs of cruiser paint and discovered a lot of work to be done. You know you got a good woman when . . . Bottom done!! The payoff - In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:33:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no… [at] yahoo.com writes: >Paul, > >It is amazing how one area can be built like something out of a Swan, and then somewhere else you find galvanized sheet metal screws and different sized fasteners holding the same piece of equipment together. None of it really bothers me, because when we were sanding the bottom back to gel coat we could see the quality where it really counted. The standing rigging, hull lay-up, and even the rudder post are all pretty solid. And we are learning how to fiberglass, and fabricate all sorts of interesting things! Eventually we'll have rebuilt everything we care about and we'll have a $100k Cal 39. > >Greg > > > >________________________________ >From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" > > >Greg - > >There are 3 of us on the list with '80 Cal 39's all on the east coast. The guy whose boat is in this month's Good Old Boat issue lives near me and I actually cleaned his fuel tank for him. He has a different layout than I do and his interior construction is worlds above mine and as I recall this was a time when they were switching builders and apparently mine was built by the new plant with no experience and they were trying to save a buck by using inexperienced help. My sole is also soft in spots and not well supported and the other boat's is solid as a rock. Galley drawers and other things inside again, are just worlds apart in construction quality. > >Paul > >In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:04:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no… [at] yahoo.com writes: > >>It's funny how my wife and I (in the middle of tearing out water tanks), were wondering how this boat got such a great build quality reputation. I think ours must have been one of those Friday afternoon completion jobs. >> >>Greg >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:40 AM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" >> >> >>Alex - >> >>Unfortunately the designer does not usually have any control over how the boat actually gets built. My '80 Cal 39 has a number of minor but irritating construction issues. I discovered that one of my stanchion bases never had any nuts on it and as a result, kept leaking into the cabinet just behind of the aft bulkhead of the head and rotted out the plywood. There was probably a the equivalent of 2 tubes of 4200 puddled up behind the lathework where someone had attempted to stop the leak at some point but never did a complete job of it. >> >>A friend of mine is good friends with Bob Perry and he laments about this frequently to him. >> >>Paul >> >>In a message dated 3/12/2013 2:31:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >> >>>Hi, Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drill and pot the holes to the proper size and everything should be fine. While I was at it (famous last words), I've removed some trim pieces to look at the bulkhead under the mast and found that it's been messed with before. There's about an inch of epoxy between it and the roof, glass tape is missing on the head side in the middle, and a small area underneath the mast seems to be epoxied as well. I've attached a picture of it. Does that look fine, or should I stress about it? Cheers, Alex.

That's a beautiful boat Paul! You gave me even more inspiration to repaint mine next winter (as well as strip the old coats of bottom paint which are 1/4" thick now). As far as built quality goes, I can understand some defects in the interior or sloppy paint or what not, but using the wrong size bolts on a critical component strikes me as pretty careless. Of course, as Helen pointed out, it might've been done by one of the POs, but the plates are painted and paint is shoddy enough to be original. Cheers, Alex. On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 12:47 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > Greg - > > Yeah the hull layup is solid and there are a lot of good things about the > boat to be sure. The fact that I can keep up with a Tartan 10 (as long as > I have 10kts of wind) that weighs less than my keel alone and have all the > luxuries of home for a weekend cruise is great. For what it's worth I paid > half of 100K but it doesn't look like it ;-). > > Misery loves company so here are some before and after pics of my bottom > work. And if your wife gives you any grief there is a pic of my wife 7 mos > pregnant working on the deck lol. > > Paul > > Had the boat power planed to remove 20+ yrs of cruiser paint and > discovered a lot of work to be done. > You know you got a good woman when . . . > > Bottom done!! > The payoff - > > In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:33:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > no… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > > Paul, > > It is amazing how one area can be built like something out of a Swan, and > then somewhere else you find galvanized sheet metal screws and different > sized fasteners holding the same piece of equipment together. None of it > really bothers me, because when we were sanding the bottom back to gel coat > we could see the quality where it really counted. The standing rigging, > hull lay-up, and even the rudder post are all pretty solid. And we are > learning how to fiberglass, and fabricate all sorts of interesting things! > Eventually we'll have rebuilt everything we care about and we'll have a > $100k Cal 39. > > Greg > > *From:* "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" > ** > > Greg - > > There are 3 of us on the list with '80 Cal 39's all on the east coast. > The guy whose boat is in this month's Good Old Boat issue lives near me and > I actually cleaned his fuel tank for him. He has a different layout than I > do and his interior construction is worlds above mine and as I recall this > was a time when they were switching builders and apparently mine was built > by the new plant with no experience and they were trying to save a buck by > using inexperienced help. My sole is also soft in spots and not well > supported and the other boat's is solid as a rock. Galley drawers and other > things inside again, are just worlds apart in construction quality. > > Paul > > In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:04:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > no… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > It's funny how my wife and I (in the middle of tearing out water tanks), > were wondering how this boat got such a great build quality reputation. I > think ours must have been one of those Friday afternoon completion jobs. > > Greg > > *From:* "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:40 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" > > Alex - > > Unfortunately the designer does not usually have any control over how the > boat actually gets built. My '80 Cal 39 has a number of minor but > irritating construction issues. I discovered that one of my stanchion > bases never had any nuts on it and as a result, kept leaking into the > cabinet just behind of the aft bulkhead of the head and rotted out the > plywood. There was probably a the equivalent of 2 tubes of 4200 puddled up > behind the lathework where someone had attempted to stop the leak at some > point but never did a complete job of it. > > A friend of mine is good friends with Bob Perry and he laments about this > frequently to him. > > Paul > > In a message dated 3/12/2013 2:31:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > > > Hi,****Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was > caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than > 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm > disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and > I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the > wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drill and pot the > holes to the proper size and everything should be fine.****While I was at > it (famous last words), I've removed some trim pieces to look at the > bulkhead under the mast and found that it's been messed with before. > There's about an inch of epoxy between it and the roof, glass tape is > missing on the head side in the middle, and a small area underneath the > mast seems to be epoxied as well. I've attached a picture of it. Does that > look fine, or should I stress about it?****Cheers,**Alex.** > > **** > >

Alex - I sanded for about an hour and barely made a dent and this was with an orbital sander with 60 grit paper on it. I decided real quick that it would be worth the money to have it power planed. I think it cost me $1200 but it was done in a day and I still sanded on her a couple more days to get it like I wanted it . . .and that was before I did the fiberglass work! Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:59:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kr… [at] gmail.com writes: That's a beautiful boat Paul! You gave me even more inspiration to repaint mine next winter (as well as strip the old coats of bottom paint which are 1/4" thick now). As far as built quality goes, I can understand some defects in the interior or sloppy paint or what not, but using the wrong size bolts on a critical component strikes me as pretty careless. Of course, as Helen pointed out, it might've been done by one of the POs, but the plates are painted and paint is shoddy enough to be original. Cheers, Alex. On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 12:47 PM, <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > wrote: Greg - Yeah the hull layup is solid and there are a lot of good things about the boat to be sure. The fact that I can keep up with a Tartan 10 (as long as I have 10kts of wind) that weighs less than my keel alone and have all the luxuries of home for a weekend cruise is great. For what it's worth I paid half of 100K but it doesn't look like it ;-). Misery loves company so here are some before and after pics of my bottom work. And if your wife gives you any grief there is a pic of my wife 7 mos pregnant working on the deck lol. Paul Had the boat power planed to remove 20+ yrs of cruiser paint and discovered a lot of work to be done. You know you got a good woman when . . . Bottom done!! The payoff - In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:33:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _n… [at] yahoo.com_ (mailto:no… [at] yahoo.com) writes: Paul, It is amazing how one area can be built like something out of a Swan, and then somewhere else you find galvanized sheet metal screws and different sized fasteners holding the same piece of equipment together. None of it really bothers me, because when we were sanding the bottom back to gel coat we could see the quality where it really counted. The standing rigging, hull lay-up, and even the rudder post are all pretty solid. And we are learning how to fiberglass, and fabricate all sorts of interesting things! Eventually we'll have rebuilt everything we care about and we'll have a $100k Cal 39. Greg From: "_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) " <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > To: _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" Greg - There are 3 of us on the list with '80 Cal 39's all on the east coast. The guy whose boat is in this month's Good Old Boat issue lives near me and I actually cleaned his fuel tank for him. He has a different layout than I do and his interior construction is worlds above mine and as I recall this was a time when they were switching builders and apparently mine was built by the new plant with no experience and they were trying to save a buck by using inexperienced help. My sole is also soft in spots and not well supported and the other boat's is solid as a rock. Galley drawers and other things inside again, are just worlds apart in construction quality. Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:04:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _n… [at] yahoo.com_ (mailto:no… [at] yahoo.com) writes: It's funny how my wife and I (in the middle of tearing out water tanks), were wondering how this boat got such a great build quality reputation. I think ours must have been one of those Friday afternoon completion jobs. Greg From: "_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) " <_p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) > To: _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" Alex - Unfortunately the designer does not usually have any control over how the boat actually gets built. My '80 Cal 39 has a number of minor but irritating construction issues. I discovered that one of my stanchion bases never had any nuts on it and as a result, kept leaking into the cabinet just behind of the aft bulkhead of the head and rotted out the plywood. There was probably a the equivalent of 2 tubes of 4200 puddled up behind the lathework where someone had attempted to stop the leak at some point but never did a complete job of it. A friend of mine is good friends with Bob Perry and he laments about this frequently to him. Paul In a message dated 3/12/2013 2:31:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _k… [at] gmail.com_ (mailto:kr… [at] gmail.com) writes: Hi,Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drill and pot the holes to the proper size and everything should be fine.While I was at it (famous last words), I've removed some trim pieces to look at the bulkhead under the mast and found that it's been messed with before. There's about an inch of epoxy between it and the roof, glass tape is missing on the head side in the middle, and a small area underneath the mast seems to be epoxied as well. I've attached a picture of it. Does that look fine, or should I stress about it?Cheers,Alex.

Ouch! I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there, but that doesn't sound like fun. On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:05 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > ** > Alex - > > I sanded for about an hour and barely made a dent and this was with an > orbital sander with 60 grit paper on it. I decided real quick that it > would be worth the money to have it power planed. I think it cost me $1200 > but it was done in a day and I still sanded on her a couple more days to > get it like I wanted it . . .and that was before I did the fiberglass > work! > > Paul > > In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:59:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > kr… [at] gmail.com writes: > > > > That's a beautiful boat Paul! You gave me even more inspiration to repaint > mine next winter (as well as strip the old coats of bottom paint which are > 1/4" thick now). > > As far as built quality goes, I can understand some defects in the > interior or sloppy paint or what not, but using the wrong size bolts on a > critical component strikes me as pretty careless. Of course, as Helen > pointed out, it might've been done by one of the POs, but the plates are > painted and paint is shoddy enough to be original. > > Cheers, > Alex. > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 12:47 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > >> ** >> Greg - >> >> Yeah the hull layup is solid and there are a lot of good things about the >> boat to be sure. The fact that I can keep up with a Tartan 10 (as long as >> I have 10kts of wind) that weighs less than my keel alone and have all the >> luxuries of home for a weekend cruise is great. For what it's worth I paid >> half of 100K but it doesn't look like it ;-). >> >> Misery loves company so here are some before and after pics of my bottom >> work. And if your wife gives you any grief there is a pic of my wife 7 mos >> pregnant working on the deck lol. >> >> Paul >> >> Had the boat power planed to remove 20+ yrs of cruiser paint and >> discovered a lot of work to be done. >> You know you got a good woman when . . . >> >> Bottom done!! >> The payoff - >> >> In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:33:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> no… [at] yahoo.com writes: >> >> >> >> Paul, >> >> It is amazing how one area can be built like something out of a Swan, and >> then somewhere else you find galvanized sheet metal screws and different >> sized fasteners holding the same piece of equipment together. None of it >> really bothers me, because when we were sanding the bottom back to gel coat >> we could see the quality where it really counted. The standing rigging, >> hull lay-up, and even the rudder post are all pretty solid. And we are >> learning how to fiberglass, and fabricate all sorts of interesting things! >> Eventually we'll have rebuilt everything we care about and we'll have a >> $100k Cal 39. >> >> Greg >> >> *From:* "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" >> ** >> >> Greg - >> >> There are 3 of us on the list with '80 Cal 39's all on the east coast. >> The guy whose boat is in this month's Good Old Boat issue lives near me and >> I actually cleaned his fuel tank for him. He has a different layout than I >> do and his interior construction is worlds above mine and as I recall this >> was a time when they were switching builders and apparently mine was built >> by the new plant with no experience and they were trying to save a buck by >> using inexperienced help. My sole is also soft in spots and not well >> supported and the other boat's is solid as a rock. Galley drawers and other >> things inside again, are just worlds apart in construction quality. >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 3/12/2013 3:04:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> no… [at] yahoo.com writes: >> >> >> It's funny how my wife and I (in the middle of tearing out water >> tanks), were wondering how this boat got such a great build quality >> reputation. I think ours must have been one of those Friday afternoon >> completion jobs. >> >> Greg >> >> *From:* "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:40 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Project "what else can I stress about" >> >> Alex - >> >> Unfortunately the designer does not usually have any control over how the >> boat actually gets built. My '80 Cal 39 has a number of minor but >> irritating construction issues. I discovered that one of my stanchion >> bases never had any nuts on it and as a result, kept leaking into the >> cabinet just behind of the aft bulkhead of the head and rotted out the >> plywood. There was probably a the equivalent of 2 tubes of 4200 puddled up >> behind the lathework where someone had attempted to stop the leak at some >> point but never did a complete job of it. >> >> A friend of mine is good friends with Bob Perry and he laments about this >> frequently to him. >> >> Paul >> >> In a message dated 3/12/2013 2:31:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> kr… [at] gmail.com writes: >> >> >> Hi,****Ok, mystery solved. That moving chainplate? Turns out it was >> caused by the improper size bolts. The holes in the plate are larger than >> 3/8" (probably 10mm), but the bolts are only 1/4". I must admit I'm >> disappointed to see that. The whole thing looks like original equipment and >> I didn't expect shoddy work like that from the manufacturer... Anyway, the >> wood seems to be fine, so I'll just get proper bolts, drill and pot the >> holes to the proper size and everything should be fine.****While I was >> at it (famous last words), I've removed some trim pieces to look at the >> bulkhead under the mast and found that it's been messed with before. >> There's about an inch of epoxy between it and the roof, glass tape is >> missing on the head side in the middle, and a small area underneath the >> mast seems to be epoxied as well. I've attached a picture of it. Does that >> look fine, or should I stress about it?****Cheers,**Alex.** >> >> **** >> >> >

On 3/12/2013 4:05 PM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > Alex - > I sanded for about an hour and barely made a dent and this was with an > orbital sander with 60 grit paper on it. I decided real quick that it > would be worth the money to have it power planed. I think it cost me > $1200 but it was done in a day Practical Sailor has reviewed bottom-paint paint removers in the past. It's still a big, messy job, just less physically demanding than sanding. You made the right decision. Chris Campbell

Paul, Wow that is a lot material gone on the bow. A lot of that is what I sanded/ground off because apparently he had hit something and loosened the layers a ways back so I ground it down and re-laid new glass. Also these boats are built in 2 halves and the structural glass that holds the two pieces together is laid on the inside of the hull which leaves a groove, if you will, along the entire length of the hull. That groove was just filled with some kind of putty and then sanded and painted. Well, when I was looking at the boat to buy it, this putty was loose and falling out in places and I was like WTF is this??? Thankfully I hired a surveyor, who was also a naval architect, that explained all this to me. He said that structurally it was fine and this was just cosmetic but did need to be fixed and suggested that I pull out all the loose, stuff, re-fill it and then lay glass over the whole thing to seal it in. So that is what I did and holy crap, what a lot of work! We bought the boat in January up in Maine, had it trucked down to Maryland and I started work on it immediately and had it in the water by May or June. It's good to know your wife is a happy participant (as is mine). Yeah, it's great to have a woman who is as into it as you are. Given we've only had the boat for 9 months we are mostly trying not to get overwhelmed and frustrated. It feels good to check off little things every weekend. Yeah, that is a great feeling when you can actually check things off the list instead of adding to it! BTW I would love to see your deck layout sometime. I'm still trying to work out mine in my head, but I always seem to have more winches and lines that I really like. Oh man, when I got the boat there was absolutely nothing that didn't take 2 people to do! I finally got a bunch of the lines lead aft so at least the main trimmer could stay in the cockpit and adjust the outhall, vang and move the traveller w/o help. Here are some pics. I led the main halyard, vang, outhaul, one jib halyard, one spinnaker halyard & topping lift back to the cockpit. I removed the old non ST winches and mounted the ones salvaged off my old boat that caught fire in the yard (arson on the boat next to me) further inboard so the could be used with the dodger up. So that the main trimmer or even someone sitting on the rail could play the traveler in higher winds I designed a piece of stainless to mount this pivoting cam cleat on that sits between the traveler blocks. Here is the side view of it. Also a piece of delrin in there to make sure the block lines up with the fairlead. I've got more somewhere that I'll have to locate. Paul