Another Fatal Accident

It seems the crew thought they could get a handle on the situation and called a tow service. The tow service didn't come out because of the rough conditions, twenty to thirty knots of wind and rough seas. (wooowwie...great down wind sailing conditions!!). When the hot rod brand new Columbia 32 sport boat (snapped its long skinny rudder coming off a steep wave) got close to San Clemente shore they depolyed an anchor, which didn't hold, and they lost their life raft in the surf. They did a boo-boo. In hindsight, if they'd let the USCG do its thing, they'd have gotten a tow...and a 36 year old, handsome husband of a beautiful wife, father of a young child, with one on the way, would still be with us, and probably the boat would have been saved as well. Happily, the rest of the crew survived, cold, wet, banged up and bruised from coming ashore on the island, and plucked off by helicopter. In a similar situation, another boat (I don't know if it was the same race, or an earlier race) lost its rudder, but a new one was brought out, installed, and continued the race. But my guess is that this was in more benign conditions. The sales brochure on the Columbia "Carbon 32" is worth a look. It ballyhoos how light and strong it is, and how it can keep up with much bigger, more expensive boats. The rudder looks like it's as big or bigger..long and skinny..as the keel. Maybe naval architects need to re-think these extreme designs after this accident. A few knots more speed isn't worth risking people's lives, especially off shore. Of course, they said that about the Cal 40, but the design of that old war horse looks soooo tame in comparison. Jerry From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "CAL Yahoo (Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com)" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident

On 3/12/2013 1:16 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > James Gilmore's 'Uncontrollable Urge' (a carbon-fiber Columbia 32) What the hell is a "carbon-fiber Columbia 32"????? They didn't have carbon fiber when they were building Col. 32s. Must be like a carbon fiber Cal 20. Chris Campbell

I had assumed that if they went the coast guard route that a helicopter would have picked them up and they would have lost the boat. To me, the party I would blame is the tow service. They should have said right away that they could not come out in which case the Coast Guard offer would have been taken. Waiting for a tow service that said they would come and didn't it not a nice thing. Allen On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > ** > > > It seems the crew thought they could get a handle on the situation and > called a tow service. The tow service didn't come out because of the rough > conditions, twenty to thirty knots of wind and rough seas. > (wooowwie...great down wind sailing conditions!!). When the hot rod brand > new Columbia 32 sport boat (snapped its long skinny rudder coming off a > steep wave) got close to San Clemente shore they depolyed an anchor, which > didn't hold, and they lost their life raft in the surf. > > They did a boo-boo. In hindsight, if they'd let the USCG do its thing, > they'd have gotten a tow...and a 36 year old, handsome husband of a > beautiful wife, father of a young child, with one on the way, would still > be with us, and probably the boat would have been saved as well. Happily, > the rest of the crew survived, cold, wet, banged up and bruised from coming > ashore on the island, and plucked off by helicopter. In a similar > situation, another boat (I don't know if it was the same race, or an > earlier race) lost its rudder, but a new one was brought out, installed, > and continued the race. But my guess is that this was in more benign > conditions. > > The sales brochure on the Columbia "Carbon 32" is worth a look. It > ballyhoos how light and strong it is, and how it can keep up with much > bigger, more expensive boats. The rudder looks like it's as big or > bigger..long and skinny..as the keel. Maybe naval architects need to > re-think these extreme designs after this accident. A few knots more speed > isn't worth risking people's lives, especially off shore. Of course, they > said that about the Cal 40, but the design of that old war horse looks > soooo tame in comparison. > Jerry > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> > *To:* "CAL Yahoo (Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com)" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:16 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident > > > From Sail World E-Mail: > > " Much closer to home, tragedy struck this weekend during the Islands > Race, which was hosted by the Newport Harbor Yacht Club and the San Diego > Yacht Club, when James Gilmore's 'Uncontrollable Urge' (a carbon-fiber > Columbia 32) lost her rudder and went aground on the rocky shore of San > Clemente Island. The USCG arrived on the scene as quickly as possible but, > tragically, crewmember Craig Thomas Williams didn't survive. Get the full > report, inside, and stay tuned to the website for more information, as it > emerges. " > > It's all the info I've seen. > > Take Care > Charlie > > > > >

There has been quite a bit of talk about the boat on Sailing Anarchy over the past month or so. I believe Uncontrollable Urge is hull #1 http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=131761 Thanks, Craig Johnson To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cc… [at] lsnm.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:10:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident On 3/12/2013 1:16 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > James Gilmore's 'Uncontrollable Urge' (a carbon-fiber Columbia 32) What the hell is a "carbon-fiber Columbia 32"????? They didn't have carbon fiber when they were building Col. 32s. Must be like a carbon fiber Cal 20. Chris Campbell

On 3/12/2013 1:40 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > The rudder looks like it's as big or bigger..long and skinny..as the > keel. Maybe naval architects need to re-think these extreme designs > after this accident. A few knots more speed isn't worth risking > people's lives, especially off shore. Of course, they said that about > the Cal 40, but the design of that old war horse looks soooo tame in > comparison. As I recall, the great fear about the radical idea of spade rudders on the Cal 40 was that they would be failing left and right. But we know that properly engineered, they're durable (at least until crevice corrosion of wet stainless innards gets you). It sounds as though the newer boat (I didn't know there were new Columbias) was NOT properly engineered. I'm generally a left-wing Democrat in politics, but when it comes to boats, my views are pretty conservative. We depend on boats to get us home safely in all kinds of conditions, so the capacity to function as a boat in all kinds of conditions is extremely important. In fact, it's the most important design criterion. Or ought to be. The water is an inherently unsafe environment for human beings. We're usually OK on it but not in it. That's why we make boats. My oldest boat is 52 years old and has always got her crew home safely. Same with my Cal 20 at 46. If your boat cannot handle normal anticipated use, it's not a god boat. Chris Campbell

All, My wife is the Commodore of SGYC, where the boat's owner and the lost crew were both members. Both were experienced and respected racers. I can't say much about this, but I can tell you that some of what's being reported is not true. The early stories made it sound as if the CG was there ready and the crew declined the help. That's not the case. Let's wait until all the facts come out before judging. George From: Gerald Sobel Sent: Tue 3/12/2013 10:40 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident It seems the crew thought they could get a handle on the situation and called a tow service. The tow service didn't come out because of the rough conditions, twenty to thirty knots of wind and rough seas. (wooowwie...great down wind sailing conditions!!). When the hot rod brand new Columbia 32 sport boat (snapped its long skinny rudder coming off a steep wave) got close to San Clemente shore they depolyed an anchor, which didn't hold, and they lost their life raft in the surf. They did a boo-boo. In hindsight, if they'd let the USCG do its thing, they'd have gotten a tow...and a 36 year old, handsome husband of a beautiful wife, father of a young child, with one on the way, would still be with us, and probably the boat would have been saved as well. Happily, the rest of the crew survived, cold, wet, banged up and bruised from coming ashore on the island, and plucked off by helicopter. In a similar situation, another boat (I don't know if it was the same race, or an earlier race) lost its rudder, but a new one was brought out, installed, and continued the race. But my guess is that this was in more benign conditions. The sales brochure on the Columbia "Carbon 32" is worth a look. It ballyhoos how light and strong it is, and how it can keep up with much bigger, more expensive boats. The rudder looks like it's as big or bigger..long and skinny..as the keel. Maybe naval architects need to re-think these extreme designs after this accident. A few knots more speed isn't worth risking people's lives, especially off shore. Of course, they said that about the Cal 40, but the design of that old war horse looks soooo tame in comparison. Jerry From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "CAL Yahoo (Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com)" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident

Chris, this is a brand new boat. Check out the brochure, it has an underbody like a Volvo 70 without the canting keel or daggerboards. From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident On 3/12/2013 1:16 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > James Gilmore's 'Uncontrollable Urge' (a carbon-fiber Columbia 32) What the hell is a "carbon-fiber Columbia 32"????? They didn't have carbon fiber when they were building Col. 32s. Must be like a carbon fiber Cal 20. Chris Campbell

Craig my impression is this is a brand new boat doing its first race. I understand a previous Carbon 32 raced to Hawaii, and I think that's from the brochure. Jerry From: Craig Johnson <cr… [at] hotmail.com> To: CalList <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident There has been quite a bit of talk about the boat on Sailing Anarchy over the past month or so. I believe Uncontrollable Urge is hull #1 http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=131761 Thanks, Craig Johnson To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: cc… [at] lsnm.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:10:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident On 3/12/2013 1:16 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > James Gilmore's 'Uncontrollable Urge' (a carbon-fiber Columbia 32) What the hell is a "carbon-fiber Columbia 32"????? They didn't have carbon fiber when they were building Col. 32s. Must be like a carbon fiber Cal 20. Chris Campbell

I for one am glad I learned to sail with the Cal Sailing Club out of Berkeley, as they routinely teach rudderless sailing and to get a senior skipper rating in clearly over 15 knots of wind you must perform a rudderless man over board and rudderless docking. Both of those can come in handy when out sailing and your rudder leaves. Jerry On 3/12/13 10:40 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > It seems the crew thought they could get a handle on the situation and > called a tow service. The tow service didn't come out because of the > rough conditions, twenty to thirty knots of wind and rough seas. > (wooowwie...great down wind sailing conditions!!). When the hot rod > brand new Columbia 32 sport boat (snapped its long skinny rudder > coming off a steep wave) got close to San Clemente shore they depolyed > an anchor, which didn't hold, and they lost their life raft in the surf. > > They did a boo-boo. In hindsight, if they'd let the USCG do its > thing, they'd have gotten a tow...and a 36 year old, handsome husband > of a beautiful wife, father of a young child, with one on the way, > would still be with us, and probably the boat would have been saved as > well. Happily, the rest of the crew survived, cold, wet, banged up and > bruised from coming ashore on the island, and plucked off by > helicopter. In a similar situation, another boat (I don't know if it > was the same race, or an earlier race) lost its rudder, but a new one > was brought out, installed, and continued the race. But my guess is > that this was in more benign conditions. > > The sales brochure on the Columbia "Carbon 32" is worth a look. It > ballyhoos how light and strong it is, and how it can keep up with much > bigger, more expensive boats. The rudder looks like it's as big or > bigger..long and skinny..as the keel. Maybe naval architects need to > re-think these extreme designs after this accident. A few knots more > speed isn't worth risking people's lives, especially off shore. Of > course, they said that about the Cal 40, but the design of that old > war horse looks soooo tame in comparison. > Jerry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> > *To:* "CAL Yahoo (Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com)" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:16 AM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident > > From Sail World E-Mail: > > " Much closer to home, tragedy struck this weekend during the Islands > Race, which was hosted by the Newport Harbor Yacht Club and the San > Diego Yacht Club, when James Gilmore's 'Uncontrollable Urge' (a > carbon-fiber Columbia 32) lost her rudder and went aground on the > rocky shore of San Clemente Island. The USCG arrived on the scene as > quickly as possible but, tragically, crewmember Craig Thomas Williams > didn't survive. Get the full report, inside, and stay tuned to the > website for more information, as it emerges. " > > It's all the info I've seen. > > Take Care > Charlie > > > >

Our club up here in Juneau's hasn't the mass to work up valuable training programs over the past few years; however; in lieu of all of the risks generally, it probably should be brought up at our next board meeting...really underlines the point of having a structured club that is central to sailors. MOB, Rudder, Safety Gear, etc. Great Club you have there in Berkeley. Thanks for the discussion points. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jerry Huff <jerry.huff.artist@...> wrote: > > I for one am glad I learned to sail with the Cal Sailing Club out of > Berkeley, as they routinely teach rudderless sailing and to get a senior > skipper rating in clearly over 15 knots of wind you must perform a > rudderless man over board and rudderless docking. Both of those can come > in handy when out sailing and your rudder leaves. > > Jerry > On 3/12/13 10:40 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > It seems the crew thought they could get a handle on the situation and > > called a tow service. The tow service didn't come out because of the > > rough conditions, twenty to thirty knots of wind and rough seas. > > (wooowwie...great down wind sailing conditions!!). When the hot rod > > brand new Columbia 32 sport boat (snapped its long skinny rudder > > coming off a steep wave) got close to San Clemente shore they depolyed > > an anchor, which didn't hold, and they lost their life raft in the surf. > > > > They did a boo-boo. In hindsight, if they'd let the USCG do its > > thing, they'd have gotten a tow...and a 36 year old, handsome husband > > of a beautiful wife, father of a young child, with one on the way, > > would still be with us, and probably the boat would have been saved as > > well. Happily, the rest of the crew survived, cold, wet, banged up and > > bruised from coming ashore on the island, and plucked off by > > helicopter. In a similar situation, another boat (I don't know if it > > was the same race, or an earlier race) lost its rudder, but a new one > > was brought out, installed, and continued the race. But my guess is > > that this was in more benign conditions. > > > > The sales brochure on the Columbia "Carbon 32" is worth a look. It > > ballyhoos how light and strong it is, and how it can keep up with much > > bigger, more expensive boats. The rudder looks like it's as big or > > bigger..long and skinny..as the keel. Maybe naval architects need to > > re-think these extreme designs after this accident. A few knots more > > speed isn't worth risking people's lives, especially off shore. Of > > course, they said that about the Cal 40, but the design of that old > > war horse looks soooo tame in comparison. > > Jerry > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <husar_charlie@...> > > *To:* "CAL Yahoo (Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com)" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:16 AM > > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident > > > > From Sail World E-Mail: > > > > " Much closer to home, tragedy struck this weekend during the Islands > > Race, which was hosted by the Newport Harbor Yacht Club and the San > > Diego Yacht Club, when James Gilmore's 'Uncontrollable Urge' (a > > carbon-fiber Columbia 32) lost her rudder and went aground on the > > rocky shore of San Clemente Island. The USCG arrived on the scene as > > quickly as possible but, tragically, crewmember Craig Thomas Williams > > didn't survive. Get the full report, inside, and stay tuned to the > > website for more information, as it emerges. " > > > > It's all the info I've seen. > > > > Take Care > > Charlie > > > > > > > > >

The great thing about http://cal-sailing.org is it is one of the oldest sailing co-ops on the west coast and is the most affordable way to learn to sail out here. Jerry On 3/13/13 11:29 AM, James wrote: > > Our club up here in Juneau's hasn't the mass to work up valuable > training programs over the past few years; however; in lieu of all of > the risks generally, it probably should be brought up at our next > board meeting...really underlines the point of having a structured > club that is central to sailors. MOB, Rudder, Safety Gear, etc. Great > Club you have there in Berkeley. Thanks for the discussion points. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, > Jerry Huff <jerry.huff.artist@...> wrote: > > > > I for one am glad I learned to sail with the Cal Sailing Club out of > > Berkeley, as they routinely teach rudderless sailing and to get a > senior > > skipper rating in clearly over 15 knots of wind you must perform a > > rudderless man over board and rudderless docking. Both of those can > come > > in handy when out sailing and your rudder leaves. > > > > Jerry > > On 3/12/13 10:40 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > It seems the crew thought they could get a handle on the situation > and > > > called a tow service. The tow service didn't come out because of the > > > rough conditions, twenty to thirty knots of wind and rough seas. > > > (wooowwie...great down wind sailing conditions!!). When the hot rod > > > brand new Columbia 32 sport boat (snapped its long skinny rudder > > > coming off a steep wave) got close to San Clemente shore they > depolyed > > > an anchor, which didn't hold, and they lost their life raft in the > surf. > > > > > > They did a boo-boo. In hindsight, if they'd let the USCG do its > > > thing, they'd have gotten a tow...and a 36 year old, handsome husband > > > of a beautiful wife, father of a young child, with one on the way, > > > would still be with us, and probably the boat would have been > saved as > > > well. Happily, the rest of the crew survived, cold, wet, banged up > and > > > bruised from coming ashore on the island, and plucked off by > > > helicopter. In a similar situation, another boat (I don't know if it > > > was the same race, or an earlier race) lost its rudder, but a new one > > > was brought out, installed, and continued the race. But my guess is > > > that this was in more benign conditions. > > > > > > The sales brochure on the Columbia "Carbon 32" is worth a look. It > > > ballyhoos how light and strong it is, and how it can keep up with > much > > > bigger, more expensive boats. The rudder looks like it's as big or > > > bigger..long and skinny..as the keel. Maybe naval architects need to > > > re-think these extreme designs after this accident. A few knots more > > > speed isn't worth risking people's lives, especially off shore. Of > > > course, they said that about the Cal 40, but the design of that old > > > war horse looks soooo tame in comparison. > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > *From:* "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <husar_charlie@...> > > > *To:* "CAL Yahoo (Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:16 AM > > > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Another Fatal Accident > > > > > > From Sail World E-Mail: > > > > > > " Much closer to home, tragedy struck this weekend during the Islands > > > Race, which was hosted by the Newport Harbor Yacht Club and the San > > > Diego Yacht Club, when James Gilmore's 'Uncontrollable Urge' (a > > > carbon-fiber Columbia 32) lost her rudder and went aground on the > > > rocky shore of San Clemente Island. The USCG arrived on the scene as > > > quickly as possible but, tragically, crewmember Craig Thomas Williams > > > didn't survive. Get the full report, inside, and stay tuned to the > > > website for more information, as it emerges. " > > > > > > It's all the info I've seen. > > > > > > Take Care > > > Charlie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On 3/13/2013 1:23 PM, Jerry Huff wrote: > > > I for one am glad I learned to sail with the Cal Sailing Club out of > Berkeley, as they routinely teach rudderless sailing and to get a > senior skipper rating in clearly over 15 knots of wind you must > perform a rudderless man over board and rudderless docking. I will confess that I've never tried either of these. That might be a good project for next summer. I've done the usual weather helm/lee helm things with sail trim but nothing as complex as a MOB pickup. Chris Campbell

From experience a heave to MOB is the easiest for rudderless control. Jerry On 3/13/13 11:48 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > On 3/13/2013 1:23 PM, Jerry Huff wrote: >> I for one am glad I learned to sail with the Cal Sailing Club out of >> Berkeley, as they routinely teach rudderless sailing and to get a >> senior skipper rating in clearly over 15 knots of wind you must >> perform a rudderless man over board and rudderless docking. > > I will confess that I've never tried either of these. That might be a > good project for next summer. I've done the usual weather helm/lee > helm things with sail trim but nothing as complex as a MOB pickup. > > Chris Campbell > >

I haven't tried this either....thinking about this, rudder falls off, man overboard, how does one Hove-to in this situation, back the sails? I've always relied on the rudder to bring the boat around in a Hove-to position --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jerry Huff <jerry.huff.artist@...> wrote: > > From experience a heave to MOB is the easiest for rudderless control. > > Jerry > On 3/13/13 11:48 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > > > On 3/13/2013 1:23 PM, Jerry Huff wrote: > >> I for one am glad I learned to sail with the Cal Sailing Club out of > >> Berkeley, as they routinely teach rudderless sailing and to get a > >> senior skipper rating in clearly over 15 knots of wind you must > >> perform a rudderless man over board and rudderless docking. > > > > I will confess that I've never tried either of these. That might be a > > good project for next summer. I've done the usual weather helm/lee > > helm things with sail trim but nothing as complex as a MOB pickup. > > > > Chris Campbell > > > > >

If you are sailing up wind on close haul you may have to fall off a bit (by letting out main) to pick up enough speed and then just haul in main and leave jib to get back winded on tack. You are now on a path back to MOB just slowly pull in main to power back to MOB. Jerry On 3/13/13 11:56 AM, James wrote: > > I haven't tried this either....thinking about this, rudder falls off, > man overboard, how does one Hove-to in this situation, back the sails? > I've always relied on the rudder to bring the boat around in a Hove-to > position > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, > Jerry Huff <jerry.huff.artist@...> wrote: > > > > From experience a heave to MOB is the easiest for rudderless control. > > > > Jerry > > On 3/13/13 11:48 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > > > > > On 3/13/2013 1:23 PM, Jerry Huff wrote: > > >> I for one am glad I learned to sail with the Cal Sailing Club out of > > >> Berkeley, as they routinely teach rudderless sailing and to get a > > >> senior skipper rating in clearly over 15 knots of wind you must > > >> perform a rudderless man over board and rudderless docking. > > > > > > I will confess that I've never tried either of these. That might be a > > > good project for next summer. I've done the usual weather helm/lee > > > helm things with sail trim but nothing as complex as a MOB pickup. > > > > > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > > > >

On 3/13/2013 2:51 PM, Jerry Huff wrote: > > > From experience a heave to MOB is the easiest for rudderless control. I have been surprised at how well a Cal 20 heaves to under jib & main. Chris Campbell >