Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question

Chris, “stop” is one of the harder parts. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 10:55 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question On 4/2/2013 6:11 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: On a similar vein, I read on the internet that you can teach sailing if your sailboat doesn't have aux. power (ha ha I think mine qualifies for that!). If you HAVE an aux. you need a captain's license. The place I worked for in college years was later donated to the local community college. In later years, the problem was that instructors had to be licensed captains. It was hard finding licensed people for part-time, part-year positions. The instructional boats were Sonars, nice boats, but they did have outboards because of their location. My Race captain of our Venture MacGregor Club joined a sailing club to avail himself the use of boats smaller than his Catalina 27 which has become his full time home, and he was commenting on the ineptitude of the clubs "certified" but otherwise clueless instructors. Teaching skills vary, of course. I know a lot more now than when I was teaching sailing. But even then, the main goal in basic sailing courses is to get people on the water and teach them the rudiments of making the boat go. Once you've figured out how to start, stop, turn, and do it safely, you can teach yourself the rest. Chris Campbell

On 4/3/2013 1:54 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > Chris, “stop” is one of the harder parts. > Wait until you try iceboating. On some points of sail, you stop by heading downwind. Or at least you slow to a relative snail's pace. Everywhere else you're sailing on apparent wind. Chris > >

I think it should be legal to teach sailing in a dinghy even if it has a small kicker. I mean, how much trouble can you get into with a little boat that's just 24' that only weighs a ton and a half? OK, so maybe I'm kidding myself. But on the other hand, what makes a 24' boat safer if it doesn't have a little kicker on the back , I mean, why should it be legal to teach in my 24' boat if I take my OB off? Of course, I should be asking someone who makes up these rules. Maybe it comes from when an aux. was a steam engine? I can see it might be tricky to steer, trim sails, and shovel coal into the fire box and keep the connecting rods oiled, all at the same time. Jerry From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question Chris, “stop” is one of the harder parts. Cheers Charlie From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 10:55 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question On 4/2/2013 6:11 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: On a similar vein, I read on the internet that you can teach sailing if your sailboat doesn't have aux. power (ha ha I think mine qualifies for that!). If you HAVE an aux. you need a captain's license. The place I worked for in college years was later donated to the local community college. In later years, the problem was that instructors had to be licensed captains. It was hard finding licensed people for part-time, part-year positions. The instructional boats were Sonars, nice boats, but they did have outboards because of their location. My Race captain of our Venture MacGregor Club joined a sailing club to avail himself the use of boats smaller than his Catalina 27 which has become his full time home, and he was commenting on the ineptitude of the clubs "certified" but otherwise clueless instructors. Teaching skills vary, of course. I know a lot more now than when I was teaching sailing. But even then, the main goal in basic sailing courses is to get people on the water and teach them the rudiments of making the boat go. Once you've figured out how to start, stop, turn, and do it safely, you can teach yourself the rest. Chris Campbell

I am going to stick my neck out and guess that this rule is a way to distinguish boats that should require a licence, like the 80 foot boat that was swiped and run aground near SF, and a rubber raft that you don't want to require a certified instructor. The ends are easy but how do you draw the line. If you pile all the boats you want in one camp on the right and the others on the left I am guessing that 99% of the ones on the right have engines and 99% of the ones on the left don't. It is an easy line to draw so they drew it. It either has an engine or it doesn't. No arguing about how long it is or what it weighs. Does it have an engine, yes or no. Now you come along with the 1% case where the line goes right through your boat. My guess it that it would be difficult to draw a clearer line than does it have an engine. And it becomes easy even in your case, want to teach on your boat, take the engine off. Get some oars though. Speaking of that, I race against two boats that do not have engines. They are sea scout boats and all the scouts have oars to get back to the dock. They are converted whale boats. Pretty fast boats. Allen On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > I think it should be legal to teach sailing in a dinghy even if it has a > small kicker. I mean, how much trouble can you get into with a little boat > that's just 24' that only weighs a ton and a half? > > OK, so maybe I'm kidding myself. But on the other hand, what makes a 24' > boat safer if it doesn't have a little kicker on the back , I mean, why > should it be legal to teach in my 24' boat if I take my OB off? > > Of course, I should be asking someone who makes up these rules. Maybe it > comes from when an aux. was a steam engine? I can see it might be tricky to > steer, trim sails, and shovel coal into the fire box and keep the > connecting rods oiled, all at the same time. > Jerry > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:54 AM > *Subject:* Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a > boat question > > Chris, “stop” is one of the harder parts. > > Cheers > Charlie > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Chris Campbell > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 10:55 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or > exchanging a boat question > > > > > On 4/2/2013 6:11 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > On a similar vein, I read on the internet that you can teach sailing if > your sailboat doesn't have aux. power (ha ha I think mine qualifies for > that!). If you HAVE an aux. you need a captain's license. > > > The place I worked for in college years was later donated to the local > community college. In later years, the problem was that instructors had to > be licensed captains. It was hard finding licensed people for part-time, > part-year positions. The instructional boats were Sonars, nice boats, but > they did have outboards because of their location. > > > My Race captain of our Venture MacGregor Club joined a sailing club to > avail himself the use of boats smaller than his Catalina 27 which has > become his full time home, and he was commenting on the ineptitude of the > clubs "certified" but otherwise clueless instructors. > > Teaching skills vary, of course. I know a lot more now than when I was > teaching sailing. But even then, the main goal in basic sailing courses > is to get people on the water and teach them the rudiments of making the > boat go. Once you've figured out how to start, stop, turn, and do it > safely, you can teach yourself the rest. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > >

Allen, I noticed Shpritz had a "whale boat" sort of hull shape when I lifted her out of the water. Must be a pretty fast shape if you need to chase whales, or go on a Nantucket sleigh ride. Whoooieee!! Maybe all Cals have a whaleboat style shape, now that I think of it. Jerry From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question I am going to stick my neck out and guess that this rule is a way to distinguish boats that should require a licence, like the 80 foot boat that was swiped and run aground near SF, and a rubber raft that you don't want to require a certified instructor. The ends are easy but how do you draw the line. If you pile all the boats you want in one camp on the right and the others on the left I am guessing that 99% of the ones on the right have engines and 99% of the ones on the left don't. It is an easy line to draw so they drew it. It either has an engine or it doesn't. No arguing about how long it is or what it weighs. Does it have an engine, yes or no. Now you come along with the 1% case where the line goes right through your boat. My guess it that it would be difficult to draw a clearer line than does it have an engine. And it becomes easy even in your case, want to teach on your boat, take the engine off. Get some oars though. Speaking of that, I race against two boats that do not have engines. They are sea scout boats and all the scouts have oars to get back to the dock. They are converted whale boats. Pretty fast boats. Allen On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: I think it should be legal to teach sailing in a dinghy even if it has a small kicker. I mean, how much trouble can you get into with a little boat that's just 24' that only weighs a ton and a half? > >OK, so maybe I'm kidding myself. But on the other hand, what makes a 24' boat safer if it doesn't have a little kicker on the back , I mean, why should it be legal to teach in my 24' boat if I take my OB off? > >Of course, I should be asking someone who makes up these rules. Maybe it comes from when an aux. was a steam engine? I can see it might be tricky to steer, trim sails, and shovel coal into the fire box and keep the connecting rods oiled, all at the same time. >Jerry > > > > > > >________________________________ > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> >To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:54 AM >Subject: Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question > > >Chris, “stop” is one of the harder parts. > >Cheers >Charlie > > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell >Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 10:55 AM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [External] Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question > > > > > >On 4/2/2013 6:11 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: >On a similar vein, I read on the internet that you can teach sailing if your sailboat doesn't have aux. power (ha ha I think mine qualifies for that!). If you HAVE an aux. you need a captain's license. > >The place I worked for in college years was later donated to the local community college. In later years, the problem was that instructors had to be licensed captains. It was hard finding licensed people for part-time, part-year positions. The instructional boats were Sonars, nice boats, but they did have outboards because of their location. > > > >My Race captain of our Venture MacGregor Club joined a sailing club to avail himself the use of boats smaller than his Catalina 27 which has become his full time home, and he was commenting on the ineptitude of the clubs "certified" but otherwise clueless instructors. > >Teaching skills vary, of course. I know a lot more now than when I was teaching sailing. But even then, the main goal in basic sailing courses is to get people on the water and teach them the rudiments of making the boat go. Once you've figured out how to start, stop, turn, and do it safely, you can teach yourself the rest. > >Chris Campbell > > > > > > >

Jerry, I am just trying to imagine that stripe drawn right through the middle of your boat. “I’ve looked at boats from both sides now…”. “I really don’t know boats at all.” … Joni Mitchell… sort of Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 2:25 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question Allen, I noticed Shpritz had a "whale boat" sort of hull shape when I lifted her out of the water. Must be a pretty fast shape if you need to chase whales, or go on a Nantucket sleigh ride. Whoooieee!! Maybe all Cals have a whaleboat style shape, now that I think of it. Jerry _____ From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question I am going to stick my neck out and guess that this rule is a way to distinguish boats that should require a licence, like the 80 foot boat that was swiped and run aground near SF, and a rubber raft that you don't want to require a certified instructor. The ends are easy but how do you draw the line. If you pile all the boats you want in one camp on the right and the others on the left I am guessing that 99% of the ones on the right have engines and 99% of the ones on the left don't. It is an easy line to draw so they drew it. It either has an engine or it doesn't. No arguing about how long it is or what it weighs. Does it have an engine, yes or no. Now you come along with the 1% case where the line goes right through your boat. My guess it that it would be difficult to draw a clearer line than does it have an engine. And it becomes easy even in your case, want to teach on your boat, take the engine off. Get some oars though. Speaking of that, I race against two boats that do not have engines. They are sea scout boats and all the scouts have oars to get back to the dock. They are converted whale boats. Pretty fast boats. Allen On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: I think it should be legal to teach sailing in a dinghy even if it has a small kicker. I mean, how much trouble can you get into with a little boat that's just 24' that only weighs a ton and a half? OK, so maybe I'm kidding myself. But on the other hand, what makes a 24' boat safer if it doesn't have a little kicker on the back , I mean, why should it be legal to teach in my 24' boat if I take my OB off? Of course, I should be asking someone who makes up these rules. Maybe it comes from when an aux. was a steam engine? I can see it might be tricky to steer, trim sails, and shovel coal into the fire box and keep the connecting rods oiled, all at the same time. Jerry _____ From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question Chris, “stop” is one of the harder parts. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 10:55 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a boat question On 4/2/2013 6:11 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: On a similar vein, I read on the internet that you can teach sailing if your sailboat doesn't have aux. power (ha ha I think mine qualifies for that!). If you HAVE an aux. you need a captain's license. The place I worked for in college years was later donated to the local community college. In later years, the problem was that instructors had to be licensed captains. It was hard finding licensed people for part-time, part-year positions. The instructional boats were Sonars, nice boats, but they did have outboards because of their location. My Race captain of our Venture MacGregor Club joined a sailing club to avail himself the use of boats smaller than his Catalina 27 which has become his full time home, and he was commenting on the ineptitude of the clubs "certified" but otherwise clueless instructors. Teaching skills vary, of course. I know a lot more now than when I was teaching sailing. But even then, the main goal in basic sailing courses is to get people on the water and teach them the rudiments of making the boat go. Once you've figured out how to start, stop, turn, and do it safely, you can teach yourself the rest. Chris Campbell

The sea scout boats are boats that were used to hunt whales, thus the name whale boat. http://youtu.be/1PKyxy_QdrA Allen On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > Allen, I noticed Shpritz had a "whale boat" sort of hull shape when I > lifted her out of the water. Must be a pretty fast shape if you need to > chase whales, or go on a Nantucket sleigh ride. Whoooieee!! > > Maybe all Cals have a whaleboat style shape, now that I think of it. > > Jerry > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2013 8:21 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a > boat question > > > I am going to stick my neck out and guess that this rule is a way to > distinguish boats that should require a licence, like the 80 foot boat that > was swiped and run aground near SF, and a rubber raft that you don't want > to require a certified instructor. The ends are easy but how do you draw > the line. If you pile all the boats you want in one camp on the right and > the others on the left I am guessing that 99% of the ones on the right have > engines and 99% of the ones on the left don't. It is an easy line to draw > so they drew it. It either has an engine or it doesn't. No arguing about > how long it is or what it weighs. Does it have an engine, yes or no. Now > you come along with the 1% case where the line goes right through your > boat. My guess it that it would be difficult to draw a clearer line than > does it have an engine. And it becomes easy even in your case, want to > teach on your boat, take the engine off. Get some oars though. > > Speaking of that, I race against two boats that do not have engines. They > are sea scout boats and all the scouts have oars to get back to the dock. > They are converted whale boats. Pretty fast boats. > > Allen > > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > I think it should be legal to teach sailing in a dinghy even if it has a > small kicker. I mean, how much trouble can you get into with a little boat > that's just 24' that only weighs a ton and a half? > > OK, so maybe I'm kidding myself. But on the other hand, what makes a 24' > boat safer if it doesn't have a little kicker on the back , I mean, why > should it be legal to teach in my 24' boat if I take my OB off? > > Of course, I should be asking someone who makes up these rules. Maybe it > comes from when an aux. was a steam engine? I can see it might be tricky to > steer, trim sails, and shovel coal into the fire box and keep the > connecting rods oiled, all at the same time. > Jerry > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:54 AM > *Subject:* Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or exchanging a > boat question > > Chris, “stop” is one of the harder parts. > > Cheers > Charlie > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Chris Campbell > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 10:55 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] Re: Teaching, was:Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: renting or > exchanging a boat question > > > > > On 4/2/2013 6:11 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > On a similar vein, I read on the internet that you can teach sailing if > your sailboat doesn't have aux. power (ha ha I think mine qualifies for > that!). If you HAVE an aux. you need a captain's license. > > > The place I worked for in college years was later donated to the local > community college. In later years, the problem was that instructors had to > be licensed captains. It was hard finding licensed people for part-time, > part-year positions. The instructional boats were Sonars, nice boats, but > they did have outboards because of their location. > > > My Race captain of our Venture MacGregor Club joined a sailing club to > avail himself the use of boats smaller than his Catalina 27 which has > become his full time home, and he was commenting on the ineptitude of the > clubs "certified" but otherwise clueless instructors. > > Teaching skills vary, of course. I know a lot more now than when I was > teaching sailing. But even then, the main goal in basic sailing courses > is to get people on the water and teach them the rudiments of making the > boat go. Once you've figured out how to start, stop, turn, and do it > safely, you can teach yourself the rest. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > > > >