Genoa Winches

Guys, I have an offer to purchase some used Barient 21 ST winches. It's a friend of mine, he upgraded his, he has a Cal 31. I know they're in good condition, but he wanted something a little more powerful. My 29 has Barient bronze, not ST. From what I can tell they would mount in the same holes. I really want STs, but new ones cost big bucks. Do you think the 21s would be enough for my 29? I'm only flying a 133 genny now, my 155 is in my garage, waiting for a buyer. I like the ease of handling, and I don't race. Thanks, David Dobbs CAL 29 411

I have a couple of sets of Barient 22s and one thing to note is they both have different gear ratios and both different than what the catalog says. You didn't say what you have now but that should be your starting point, not opinions from this list. Figure out the power ratio which is gear ratio times the advantage of the lever (10 inches) divided by the drum radius. If you need more advantage, make sure the 21s have it. Allen On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:28 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Guys, > I have an offer to purchase some used Barient 21 ST winches. It's a > friend of mine, he upgraded his, he has a Cal 31. I know they're in good > condition, but he wanted something a little more powerful. My 29 has > Barient bronze, not ST. From what I can tell they would mount in the same > holes. I really want STs, but new ones cost big bucks. Do you think the > 21s would be enough for my 29? I'm only flying a 133 genny now, my 155 is > in my garage, waiting for a buyer. I like the ease of handling, and I > don't race. > Thanks, > David Dobbs CAL 29 411 > > > >

Well I'm really surprised to read this, Allen. I've learned a bunch from this list, and lately a lot from you. I was composing my reply to David, as an authority, but now I'll label it " for what it's worth" in light of this knowledge. :) That said, from an imperial standpoint, this is my experience. Mariposa had a pair of Barient 18s on when I bought her. I ran into a cheap pair of 21s and upgraded about 3 years later and was in heaven at the extra power. A few years later, I had a chance to pick up a clean set of 22s so I installed them and moved the 21s back to the secondary position, which assisted me single-handing. I wasn't looking for more power, just ran into an opportunity and wanted to replace the secondaries with more power for single handing -- with a wheel it's nice to have a set of winches big enough to handle the genoa back by the helm. Both were a big improvement, neither were ST. I realize that I have aged throughout this process, but i didnt know the 18s were underpowered until i bolted the 21s down in place of them. it seems that my upgrades were less than scientific and more about price opportunities. That said, once you taste the power it's "how did I get by without it" for sure. HTH Wilkie On May 27, 2013, at 11:36 PM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > I have a couple of sets of Barient 22s and one thing to note is they both have different gear ratios and both different than what the catalog says. You didn't say what you have now but that should be your starting point, not opinions from this list. Figure out the power ratio which is gear ratio times the advantage of the lever (10 inches) divided by the drum radius. If you need more advantage, make sure the 21s have it. > > > Allen > > > On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:28 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Guys, >> I have an offer to purchase some used Barient 21 ST winches. It's a friend of mine, he upgraded his, he has a Cal 31. I know they're in good condition, but he wanted something a little more powerful. My 29 has Barient bronze, not ST. From what I can tell they would mount in the same holes. I really want STs, but new ones cost big bucks. Do you think the 21s would be enough for my 29? I'm only flying a 133 genny now, my 155 is in my garage, waiting for a buyer. I like the ease of handling, and I don't race. >> Thanks, >> David Dobbs CAL 29 411 > > > >

Wilkie, perhaps I was grumpy when I wrote my reply :-) The point I was trying to make is that Barient experimented a lot with their gear ratios. The biggest example of this is that I had a pair of 32's on Papoose with a power ratio of 30 and replaced them with a pair of 22s with a power ratio of 40. But if you look in the catalog, the 22s have a power ratio of only 34 and the 32s have 47. I also have a pair of 22s with the listed power ratio of 34. For reference, the 18s are only 24. I also have a pair of 18s and just verified the 24 power. The 21s are listed at a power of 30 but my point was that the OP needs to measure the power ratio of what he is going to buy and make sure it really is higher than what he is replacing. Don't use the catalog as the reference and don't assume they are the same. That would go for other boat owners as well. You might ask me about the power of a 32 and I would say they were grossly underpowered and almost useless given that mine had a power of 30. The next guy has a pair with the 47 power or perhaps even higher and thinks they are great. So my post wasn't about the quality of boat owners knowledge of what works on their boats, it was about the variability of the Barient winches over time and a caution to make sure you know what you have and what you are getting. But in re-reading the post it looks like David was wanting to switch from 21 bronze (chrome?) to 21 ss. He assumes they will mount the same. I have a Barient 22 in front of me with a 5 bolt pattern and am looking at the catalog and see that they mount with a 6 bolt pattern so even that should be checked. Allen On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:03 AM, David Owen <dw… [at] me.com> wrote: > ** > > > > Well I'm really surprised to read this, Allen. I've learned a bunch from > this list, and lately a lot from you. I was composing my reply to David, > as an authority, but now I'll label it " for what it's worth" in light of > this knowledge. :) > > That said, from an imperial standpoint, this is my experience. > > Mariposa had a pair of Barient 18s on when I bought her. I ran into a > cheap pair of 21s and upgraded about 3 years later and was in heaven at the > extra power. A few years later, I had a chance to pick up a clean set of > 22s so I installed them and moved the 21s back to the secondary position, > which assisted me single-handing. I wasn't looking for more power, just > ran into an opportunity and wanted to replace the secondaries with more > power for single handing -- with a wheel it's nice to have a set of winches > big enough to handle the genoa back by the helm. Both were a big > improvement, neither were ST. > > I realize that I have aged throughout this process, but i didnt know the > 18s were underpowered until i bolted the 21s down in place of them. it > seems that my upgrades were less than scientific and more about price > opportunities. That said, once you taste the power it's "how did I get by > without it" for sure. > > HTH > > Wilkie > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 27, 2013, at 11:36 PM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> > wrote: > > I have a couple of sets of Barient 22s and one thing to note is they both > have different gear ratios and both different than what the catalog says. > You didn't say what you have now but that should be your starting point, > not opinions from this list. Figure out the power ratio which is gear > ratio times the advantage of the lever (10 inches) divided by the drum > radius. If you need more advantage, make sure the 21s have it. > > > Allen > > > On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:28 PM, david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Guys, >> I have an offer to purchase some used Barient 21 ST winches. It's a >> friend of mine, he upgraded his, he has a Cal 31. I know they're in good >> condition, but he wanted something a little more powerful. My 29 has >> Barient bronze, not ST. From what I can tell they would mount in the same >> holes. I really want STs, but new ones cost big bucks. Do you think the >> 21s would be enough for my 29? I'm only flying a 133 genny now, my 155 is >> in my garage, waiting for a buyer. I like the ease of handling, and I >> don't race. >> Thanks, >> David Dobbs CAL 29 411 >> >> >> > >