Re: Starter Gremlins

Not even a click would mean a bad, or going, solonoid. I should at least give you a click, making contact. Of course, a loose wire to the noid could do it too, but there's your problem.

I recently encountered a similar problem on my (relatively) new Yanmar in my Cal 36. Most of the time the engine would start right up, but occasionally the starter would just click repetitively without starting, like there wasn't enough battery voltage. With a voltmeter, I found that the battery was good, and there was good voltage present at the solenoid terminal. I thought I might have a bad solenoid, but shorting the solenoid coil to the battery activated it reliably every time. I did notice that the starter button connection to the solenoid looked pretty sketchy at the solenoid-mounted wire plug. The connector was a bit corroded and the connection seemed kind of loose. The wire going to it also seems kind of small. I cleaned up the connectors, tightened them a bit, and sprayed everything with CorrosionX. Haven't had the problem again yet. After a bit of searching online, I saw that it appeared to be a not-uncommon problem with the Yanmars - more than one complaint about poorly made factory wiring harnesses and corroded wires. On my action list is to replace at least that one wire with a larger gauge, tinned line and sealed connectors. AJ On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 4:34 AM, <du… [at] aim.com> wrote: > > > Not even a click would mean a bad, or going, solonoid. I should at least > give you a click, making contact. > > Of course, a loose wire to the noid could do it too, but there's your > problem. > > > > >

Great work AJ Edwin Cal Cruising 46 Lahlia Marina del Rey CA On Jul 13, 2013, at 9:04, aJ <ak… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > I recently encountered a similar problem on my (relatively) new Yanmar in my Cal 36. Most of the time the engine would start right up, but occasionally the starter would just click repetitively without starting, like there wasn't enough battery voltage. With a voltmeter, I found that the battery was good, and there was good voltage present at the solenoid terminal. > > I thought I might have a bad solenoid, but shorting the solenoid coil to the battery activated it reliably every time. I did notice that the starter button connection to the solenoid looked pretty sketchy at the solenoid-mounted wire plug. The connector was a bit corroded and the connection seemed kind of loose. The wire going to it also seems kind of small. I cleaned up the connectors, tightened them a bit, and sprayed everything with CorrosionX. Haven't had the problem again yet. > > After a bit of searching online, I saw that it appeared to be a not-uncommon problem with the Yanmars - more than one complaint about poorly made factory wiring harnesses and corroded wires. On my action list is to replace at least that one wire with a larger gauge, tinned line and sealed connectors. > > AJ > > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 4:34 AM, <du… [at] aim.com> wrote: > > > Not even a click would mean a bad, or going, solonoid. I should at least give you a click, making contact. > > Of course, a loose wire to the noid could do it too, but there's your problem. > > > > >

Update I can confirm that the starting trouble happens only with a warm engine. I went out again yesterday and it started fine when cold but after motoring for a couple hours and shutting down it would not even make a sound when turning the key Does anyone have any ideas based on this new info? Thx Chris --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, edwmama <edwmama@...> wrote: > > Great work AJ > > > Edwin > Cal Cruising 46 > Lahlia > Marina del Rey CA > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 13, 2013, at 9:04, aJ <akflyer@...> wrote: > > > I recently encountered a similar problem on my (relatively) new Yanmar in my Cal 36. Most of the time the engine would start right up, but occasionally the starter would just click repetitively without starting, like there wasn't enough battery voltage. With a voltmeter, I found that the battery was good, and there was good voltage present at the solenoid terminal. > > > > I thought I might have a bad solenoid, but shorting the solenoid coil to the battery activated it reliably every time. I did notice that the starter button connection to the solenoid looked pretty sketchy at the solenoid-mounted wire plug. The connector was a bit corroded and the connection seemed kind of loose. The wire going to it also seems kind of small. I cleaned up the connectors, tightened them a bit, and sprayed everything with CorrosionX. Haven't had the problem again yet. > > > > After a bit of searching online, I saw that it appeared to be a not-uncommon problem with the Yanmars - more than one complaint about poorly made factory wiring harnesses and corroded wires. On my action list is to replace at least that one wire with a larger gauge, tinned line and sealed connectors. > > > > AJ > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 4:34 AM, <dutchessc22@...> wrote: > > > > > > Not even a click would mean a bad, or going, solonoid. I should at least give you a click, making contact. > > > > Of course, a loose wire to the noid could do it too, but there's your problem. > > > > > > > > > > >

I haven't read all the messages, but any electrical problem would be approached the same. First, use a voltmeter and verify where you do have voltage and where you don't. Also verify that you have a good ground back to the batteries. Regarding the warm motor, I have seen coils break down when they are hot, but work when cold. This has been the case with one of my old bulldozer pony engines that has a magneto. When the machine was totally cold, the pony engine would fire and then I could start the diesel. But as soon as the machine was hot (after running it a while), the pony would no longer start. Investigation revealed that the coil in the magneto that generated the spark was breaking down when it got hot. Had similar failure with an ignition coil on a car engine that stopped producing spark after the motor warmed up. A starter solenoid has a coil inside that energizes the contacts that sends the 12volts to the starter motor. So, once you have the failure happening, turn on the ignition switch and go test voltage at the solenoid. Is 12 volts at the big terminal? Is 12 volts at the ignition terminal on the solenoid when you press the starter button? If no voltage there, you might have a wiring problem and no supply voltage is making it to the solenoid. If you do have power at the solenoid when you press the starter button, it might just be a bad solenoid (as I think someone already suggested) and the solenoid is failing once it gets hot. Seems that using a voltmeter you should be able to determine what is wrong. Another starter related issue I had recently was with my backhoe. It would seem totally dead, then sometimes started up just fine. It ended up being a very corroded starter button on my dash. I was able to disassemble the starter button and clean to large contacts that had kind of burned somewhat over years of use (arcing when you press the button, just like the old points would do in a distributor). After cleaning the contacts real good I have not had any problems starting the machine. So, when your engine is having the problem, have someone press the starter button while you have your voltmeter connected to the wire at the solenoid. If you don't see +12volts there I would suspect the button or wiring. On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Some guy <sc… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > > Update > > I can confirm that the starting trouble happens only with a warm engine. I > went out again yesterday and it started fine when cold but after motoring > for a couple hours and shutting down it would not even make a sound when > turning the key > > Does anyone have any ideas based on this new info? > > Thx > > Chris > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, edwmama <edwmama@...> wrote: > > > > Great work AJ > > > > > > Edwin > > Cal Cruising 46 > > Lahlia > > Marina del Rey CA > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 13, 2013, at 9:04, aJ <akflyer@...> wrote: > > > > > I recently encountered a similar problem on my (relatively) new Yanmar > in my Cal 36. Most of the time the engine would start right up, but > occasionally the starter would just click repetitively without starting, > like there wasn't enough battery voltage. With a voltmeter, I found that > the battery was good, and there was good voltage present at the solenoid > terminal. > > > > > > I thought I might have a bad solenoid, but shorting the solenoid coil > to the battery activated it reliably every time. I did notice that the > starter button connection to the solenoid looked pretty sketchy at the > solenoid-mounted wire plug. The connector was a bit corroded and the > connection seemed kind of loose. The wire going to it also seems kind of > small. I cleaned up the connectors, tightened them a bit, and sprayed > everything with CorrosionX. Haven't had the problem again yet. > > > > > > After a bit of searching online, I saw that it appeared to be a > not-uncommon problem with the Yanmars - more than one complaint about > poorly made factory wiring harnesses and corroded wires. On my action list > is to replace at least that one wire with a larger gauge, tinned line and > sealed connectors. > > > > > > AJ > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 4:34 AM, <dutchessc22@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Not even a click would mean a bad, or going, solonoid. I should at > least give you a click, making contact. > > > > > > Of course, a loose wire to the noid could do it too, but there's your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Did you take a voltmeter along? If you do that you will know the answer. Run it in gear in the slip and you can get it hot that way. Allen On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Some guy <sc… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > > Update > > I can confirm that the starting trouble happens only with a warm engine. I > went out again yesterday and it started fine when cold but after motoring > for a couple hours and shutting down it would not even make a sound when > turning the key > > Does anyone have any ideas based on this new info? > > Thx > > Chris > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, edwmama <edwmama@...> wrote: > > > > Great work AJ > > > > > > Edwin > > Cal Cruising 46 > > Lahlia > > Marina del Rey CA > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 13, 2013, at 9:04, aJ <akflyer@...> wrote: > > > > > I recently encountered a similar problem on my (relatively) new Yanmar > in my Cal 36. Most of the time the engine would start right up, but > occasionally the starter would just click repetitively without starting, > like there wasn't enough battery voltage. With a voltmeter, I found that > the battery was good, and there was good voltage present at the solenoid > terminal. > > > > > > I thought I might have a bad solenoid, but shorting the solenoid coil > to the battery activated it reliably every time. I did notice that the > starter button connection to the solenoid looked pretty sketchy at the > solenoid-mounted wire plug. The connector was a bit corroded and the > connection seemed kind of loose. The wire going to it also seems kind of > small. I cleaned up the connectors, tightened them a bit, and sprayed > everything with CorrosionX. Haven't had the problem again yet. > > > > > > After a bit of searching online, I saw that it appeared to be a > not-uncommon problem with the Yanmars - more than one complaint about > poorly made factory wiring harnesses and corroded wires. On my action list > is to replace at least that one wire with a larger gauge, tinned line and > sealed connectors. > > > > > > AJ > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 4:34 AM, <dutchessc22@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Not even a click would mean a bad, or going, solonoid. I should at > least give you a click, making contact. > > > > > > Of course, a loose wire to the noid could do it too, but there's your > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Don't count too much on the Volt Meter - I had a scenario where the V-Meter read a persfect 12.4 Volts where I needed it (VHF power supply) but then as soon as I clicked the mic the Voltage would drop to 4V or so, and the unit was unable to send out. Heard everyone just fine, just wasn't able to transmit. Cause - a corroded wire. The Wire would transmit Voltage, but not carry a reasonable amperage load. If the line isn't tinned, the copper will eventually turn black on you and become a big resistor. I am a big fan of running a fresh, temporary, line to what is supposed to work, over just reading Voltage.

So the volt meter did work. You just have to read the voltage when the device is drawing a load, not just when it is passive. From: "du… [at] aim.com" <du… [at] aim.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 5:59 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Starter Gremlins Don't count too much on the Volt Meter - I had a scenario where the V-Meter read a persfect 12.4 Volts where I needed it (VHF power supply) but then as soon as I clicked the mic the Voltage would drop to 4V or so, and the unit was unable to send out. Heard everyone just fine, just wasn't able to transmit. Cause - a corroded wire. The Wire would transmit Voltage, but not carry a reasonable amperage load. If the line isn't tinned, the copper will eventually turn black on you and become a big resistor. I am a big fan of running a fresh, temporary, line to what is supposed to work, over just reading Voltage.

If it develops that you need a starter, try rareelectrical.com I got brand-new starter from them for my 1976 Cal 2-29 (Farrymann engine) and another for my 2002 Toyota Camry. Around $100 each; compare that to the $400 or so for an original-style Bosch starter. It appears that rare electrical has CNC programs for machining the starter mounts as they fit perfectly. Original starters for the Farrymann are direct drive, which requires a lot of “grunt” when starting. The rare electricals are geared: the motor spins at high speed and is geared down to crank the engine easily. Less load on your electrical system, and makes a really cool sound like when an aircraft engine is started Both of my starters have worked flawlessly: the one in my Cal is now three years old. Fred Timcoe 1976 Cal 2-29, Williwaw

I haven't seen any Cal messages for a few days.... Tap, tap, tap. Is anyone there?

Aloha from San Francisco Bay! From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:50 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Test Message I haven't seen any Cal messages for a few days.... Tap, tap, tap. Is anyone there?

we are racing on Wednesday nites in south SF Bay, then one by one installing replacement opening ports on our 36, Caliente, which also finally got her name in vinyls on both sides this weekend. now, when we do something, they'll know who we were. three ports in a row in aluminum frames instead of antique plastic (sun dried and shattered on the large raindrain edges). it is hard to get three in perfect alignment, even using the older smaller holes as guides. they fit nicely however and screw to each other, rather than into the glass. only had to remove about 3/4 of an inch over all, basically same size. if anyone needs any replacement plastic lenses or white trim pieces, we have about 3 of 6 that were mostly intact. they suffer the most at the hinges and the dogs. free for postage. anyway, sailing out of Santa Cruz tonight on west marine's santa cruz 40,"Promotion." Helen and Edward From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:50 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Test Message I haven't seen any Cal messages for a few days.... Tap, tap, tap. Is anyone there?

All, It was great to be back on the water. Beer Can races resumed after a break from Regatta Time in Abaco (Bahamas) and weather cancellations. Unfortunately, the turnout last night was light with only six boats. We run two classes: PHRF <=150 & >150 ratings. We have one start for all boats. Given the ratings, Magic raced against a Tartan 34 (PHRF 183) as our only competition. At the start we pushed a Sweden 37 and a Catalina 36 up at the start mark. While the Sweden 37 was able to slip through, the Catalina to windward had to come about and was behind us as we crossed the start line. The Tarten 34 played is safe, and started down the line from everyone. The race was a dorito & hotdog (W-R-L-W-F). Magic beat the Tartan to the windward mark, but she was on our tail at the reaching mark. We held her off on the leg to the leward mark and again pulled away on our way to the windward mark. As we rounded the windward mark for the run to the finish, the wind went light. With a poled out 135 going wing-on-wing, we finished about two seconds ahead of the Tartan 34. I love my crew! Michael s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL From: FredT <ft… [at] msn.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Starter Gremlins If it develops that you need a starter, try rareelectrical.com I got brand-new starter from them for my 1976 Cal 2-29 (Farrymann engine) and another for my 2002 Toyota Camry. Around $100 each; compare that to the $400 or so for an original-style Bosch starter. It appears that rare electrical has CNC programs for machining the starter mounts as they fit perfectly. Original starters for the Farrymann are direct drive, which requires a lot of “grunt” when starting. The rare electricals are geared: the motor spins at high speed and is geared down to crank the engine easily. Less load on your electrical system, and makes a really cool sound like when an aircraft engine is started Both of my starters have worked flawlessly: the one in my Cal is now three years old. Fred Timcoe 1976 Cal 2-29, Williwaw

Oh yes those good ol racing days We did in north shore long island with The NICKERBACKER yacht club Where we would kill for an inch Then only to have a few beers before Heading home Edwin Cal cruising 46 Marina del rey On Jul 25, 2013, at 8:15, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > All, > > It was great to be back on the water. Beer Can races resumed after a break from Regatta Time in Abaco (Bahamas) and weather cancellations. Unfortunately, the turnout last night was light with only six boats. We run two classes: PHRF <=150 & >150 ratings. We have one start for all boats. Given the ratings, Magic raced against a Tartan 34 (PHRF 183) as our only competition. At the start we pushed a Sweden 37 and a Catalina 36 up at the start mark. While the Sweden 37 was able to slip through, the Catalina to windward had to come about and was behind us as we crossed the start line. The Tarten 34 played is safe, and started down the line from everyone. The race was a dorito & hotdog (W-R-L-W-F). Magic beat the Tartan to the windward mark, but she was on our tail at the reaching mark. We held her off on the leg to the leward mark and again pulled away on our way to the windward mark. As we rounded the windward mark for the run to the finish, the wind went light. With a poled out 135 going wing-on-wing, we finished about two seconds ahead of the Tartan 34. I love my crew! > > Michael > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > Pompano Beach, FL > > From: FredT <ft… [at] msn.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:10 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Starter Gremlins > > If it develops that you need a starter, try rareelectrical.com > > I got brand-new starter from them for my 1976 Cal 2-29 (Farrymann engine) and another for my 2002 Toyota Camry. Around $100 each; compare that to the $400 or so for an original-style Bosch starter. It appears that rare electrical has CNC programs for machining the starter mounts as they fit perfectly. Original starters for the Farrymann are direct drive, which requires a lot of “grunt” when starting. The rare electricals are geared: the motor spins at high speed and is geared down to crank the engine easily. Less load on your electrical system, and makes a really cool sound like when an aircraft engine is started <wlEmoticon-smile> Both of my starters have worked flawlessly: the one in my Cal is now three years old. > > Fred Timcoe > 1976 Cal 2-29, Williwaw > > >

Oh yes those good ol racing days We did in north shore long island with The NICKERBACKER yacht club Where we would kill for an inch Then only to have a few beers before Heading home Edwin Cal cruising 46 Marina del rey On Jul 25, 2013, at 8:15, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > All, > > It was great to be back on the water. Beer Can races resumed after a break from Regatta Time in Abaco (Bahamas) and weather cancellations. Unfortunately, the turnout last night was light with only six boats. We run two classes: PHRF <=150 & >150 ratings. We have one start for all boats. Given the ratings, Magic raced against a Tartan 34 (PHRF 183) as our only competition. At the start we pushed a Sweden 37 and a Catalina 36 up at the start mark. While the Sweden 37 was able to slip through, the Catalina to windward had to come about and was behind us as we crossed the start line. The Tarten 34 played is safe, and started down the line from everyone. The race was a dorito & hotdog (W-R-L-W-F). Magic beat the Tartan to the windward mark, but she was on our tail at the reaching mark. We held her off on the leg to the leward mark and again pulled away on our way to the windward mark. As we rounded the windward mark for the run to the finish, the wind went light. With a poled out 135 going wing-on-wing, we finished about two seconds ahead of the Tartan 34. I love my crew! > > Michael > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > Pompano Beach, FL > > From: FredT <ft… [at] msn.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:10 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Starter Gremlins > > If it develops that you need a starter, try rareelectrical.com > > I got brand-new starter from them for my 1976 Cal 2-29 (Farrymann engine) and another for my 2002 Toyota Camry. Around $100 each; compare that to the $400 or so for an original-style Bosch starter. It appears that rare electrical has CNC programs for machining the starter mounts as they fit perfectly. Original starters for the Farrymann are direct drive, which requires a lot of “grunt” when starting. The rare electricals are geared: the motor spins at high speed and is geared down to crank the engine easily. Less load on your electrical system, and makes a really cool sound like when an aircraft engine is started <wlEmoticon-smile> Both of my starters have worked flawlessly: the one in my Cal is now three years old. > > Fred Timcoe > 1976 Cal 2-29, Williwaw > > >

All, Last night was our last scheduled Wednesday night beer can race of the season. Of twelve races scheduled, a few were cancelled due to weather. Magic raced in seven of the eight races held. We finished the season with five first places. With last night being the final race, we decided to fill up the boat with people, so we had a total of ten aboard. Besides five of our regular crew, we had four guys aboard that I invited from work, and Brenda had one of her friends come along as well. Imagine if you will, six on the rail going from side to side during a tack/gybe on a 27 ft boat. Magic was not fast last night. I think the water line was about two inches higher up the side than normal. One of the guys from work stayed busy puking over the stern. It was a lot of fun. Michael s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:15 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Beer Can Races All, It was great to be back on the water. Beer Can races resumed after a break from Regatta Time in Abaco (Bahamas) and weather cancellations. Unfortunately, the turnout last night was light with only six boats. We run two classes: PHRF <=150 & >150 ratings. We have one start for all boats. Given the ratings, Magic raced against a Tartan 34 (PHRF 183) as our only competition. At the start we pushed a Sweden 37 and a Catalina 36 up at the start mark. While the Sweden 37 was able to slip through, the Catalina to windward had to come about and was behind us as we crossed the start line. The Tarten 34 played is safe, and started down the line from everyone. The race was a dorito & hotdog (W-R-L-W-F). Magic beat the Tartan to the windward mark, but she was on our tail at the reaching mark. We held her off on the leg to the leward mark and again pulled away on our way to the windward mark. As we rounded the windward mark for the run to the finish, the wind went light. With a poled out 135 going wing-on-wing, we finished about two seconds ahead of the Tartan 34. I love my crew! Michael s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL From: FredT <ft… [at] msn.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Starter Gremlins If it develops that you need a starter, try rareelectrical.com I got brand-new starter from them for my 1976 Cal 2-29 (Farrymann engine) and another for my 2002 Toyota Camry. Around $100 each; compare that to the $400 or so for an original-style Bosch starter. It appears that rare electrical has CNC programs for machining the starter mounts as they fit perfectly. Original starters for the Farrymann are direct drive, which requires a lot of “grunt” when starting. The rare electricals are geared: the motor spins at high speed and is geared down to crank the engine easily. Less load on your electrical system, and makes a really cool sound like when an aircraft engine is started Both of my starters have worked flawlessly: the one in my Cal is now three years old. Fred Timcoe 1976 Cal 2-29, Williwaw