Re: [Cal_Boats] Rubber Bands and yarn

Allen, Can you post a link to the new rule? We just had the Santa Barbara Channel Challange and the big boats are still using the yarn/bands on the hoists. Randy Cal 2-29 Out Patient Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: I don't have a problem with the halyards taking paint off the mast as I do something similar to what you are saying when putting the boat away. The shackle goes to its storage spot on the bow pulpit and I take the foreguy and clip it to the mast run and pull the halyard away from the mast. The problem is IF I were to put a fairlead or retaining line of some kind up where the spreader is. That would prevent the mast run from being able to be pulled away from the mast. I do not use a bow mounted bag to launch the spinnaker. I have a bag similar to the North Sails rectangular bag. We launch from under the jib about mid way along the foot. We launch without any strings or rubber bands or sock. Did you know rubber bands and strings are illegal now? The issue is if the crew isn't very careful when taking the halyard around and under the jib and connecting it to the spinnaker and allows any slack in the line, it will wrap around the spreader. This is likely more of a problem with a my 36 ft boat than it would be with a 20 ft but I have been told this was traditionally a huge problem and that people used to come up with inventive solutions like feeding the halyard through a hole in the spreader. This only happened once (the first time) but, as I said, it was a traditional problem before internal halyards. I will say we have never had a problem with a launch from the bag. There was a lot of skepticism from the crew when I said we were going to launch without strings or bands but nobody questions it any more now that they see it works. The gybes are working and the only issue is the take down where all the experienced crew knows a better way to do it. It is amazing that everyone can tell you ahead of time to go train on another boat and learn how to fly a spinnaker. Then when you do it hundreds of times and get a system down, they all want to tell you a better way to do it. Allen On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Allen, how about taking the shackles out to the bow pulpit or other suitable outboard place for storage. Then hold the mast runs of the halyards out to the shrouds with stiff bungee cords, and pull the halyards tight. Don’t know if you’ve already tried this, but it should solve the paint problem with the slapping. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:50 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 1972 Cal T2 - Convert to internal halyards? The problem is that I need to pull the halyard off the mast when the boat is not being sailed so that they don't slap and take all the paint off. But I guess on an aluminum mast you could do that. On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Jim Englert <sa… [at] gmail.com> wrote: Allen, you could always screw a few RWO Bulls eyes in the mast, Part# R2984 at APS might work. Also, could screw a section of pvc tubing into the mast above and below the spreaders to give the line a guide. The pvc might be the best solution. a 4 foot section above and below the spreaders. You could drill a hole in the tube so you could get a screw and screw drive in and attached it directly to the mast. Maybe use the Bullseye at the exit of the tube to keep the halyard from yanking on it. Jim On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: I just started using a spinnaker in our races. As my mast is wood, there is no possibility of internal halyards. But having an external spinnaker halyard is a huge problem compared to having it internal. The problem is that the wind takes the halyard and wraps it around the spreaders. We have to be very careful compared to the other boat I raced on which had an internal spinnaker halyard. It was a fractional rig and the halyard did not have a bail. I don't know what it is, but I am positive there is a straight forward solution to putting the spinnaker halyard internal. Lots of boats to check out to see how it is done. I would not leave the spinnaker halyard out if you are converting to internal halyards. Allen On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: I converted to internal halyards on Cal 36 Holiday. I agree with all of Charlie's points especially mast base plate. The base plate would go a long way to solving the problem but you still have a raised house to contend with if you are routing the halyards to the cockpit. I added two extra halyards, one main , one jib when doing the conversion. Never had an issue with halyards fouling. I left the spinnaker external. I did have to run pvc conduit for electrical wires to masthead. The mast must be down to do the job. The two biggest problems: finding sheaves narrow enough to fit four AND the mast was filled with Styrofoam (from Jensen) to prevent electric wires from banging about. It was a terrible job getting it out. Was it worth? Yes I would do it again. Really cleaned things up. Mike Robinson S/V Primrose (former owner Holiday Cal 36) (916) 705-3200

That's covered by rule 55. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android From: Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com>; To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Rubber Bands and yarn Sent: Mon, Sep 23, 2013 11:01:37 PM Allen, Can you post a link to the new rule? We just had the Santa Barbara Channel Challange and the big boats are still using the yarn/bands on the hoists. Randy Cal 2-29 Out Patient Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: I don't have a problem with the halyards taking paint off the mast as I do something similar to what you are saying when putting the boat away. The shackle goes to its storage spot on the bow pulpit and I take the foreguy and clip it to the mast run and pull the halyard away from the mast. The problem is IF I were to put a fairlead or retaining line of some kind up where the spreader is. That would prevent the mast run from being able to be pulled away from the mast. I do not use a bow mounted bag to launch the spinnaker. I have a bag similar to the North Sails rectangular bag. We launch from under the jib about mid way along the foot. We launch without any strings or rubber bands or sock. Did you know rubber bands and strings are illegal now? The issue is if the crew isn't very careful when taking the halyard around and under the jib and connecting it to the spinnaker and allows any slack in the line, it will wrap around the spreader. This is likely more of a problem with a my 36 ft boat than it would be with a 20 ft but I have been told this was traditionally a huge problem and that people used to come up with inventive solutions like feeding the halyard through a hole in the spreader. This only happened once (the first time) but, as I said, it was a traditional problem before internal halyards. I will say we have never had a problem with a launch from the bag. There was a lot of skepticism from the crew when I said we were going to launch without strings or bands but nobody questions it any more now that they see it works. The gybes are working and the only issue is the take down where all the experienced crew knows a better way to do it. It is amazing that everyone can tell you ahead of time to go train on another boat and learn how to fly a spinnaker. Then when you do it hundreds of times and get a system down, they all want to tell you a better way to do it. Allen On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < hu… [at] bah.com > wrote: Allen, how about taking the shackles out to the bow pulpit or other suitable outboard place for storage. Then hold the mast runs of the halyards out to the shrouds with stiff bungee cords, and pull the halyards tight. Don’t know if you’ve already tried this, but it should solve the paint problem with the slapping. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:50 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 1972 Cal T2 - Convert to internal halyards? The problem is that I need to pull the halyard off the mast when the boat is not being sailed so that they don't slap and take all the paint off. But I guess on an aluminum mast you could do that. On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Jim Englert < sa… [at] gmail.com > wrote: Allen, you could always screw a few RWO Bulls eyes in the mast, Part# R2984 at APS might work. Also, could screw a section of pvc tubing into the mast above and below the spreaders to give the line a guide. The pvc might be the best solution. a 4 foot section above and below the spreaders. You could drill a hole in the tube so you could get a screw and screw drive in and attached it directly to the mast. Maybe use the Bullseye at the exit of the tube to keep the halyard from yanking on it. Jim On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Allen Edwards < al… [at] gmail.com > wrote: I just started using a spinnaker in our races. As my mast is wood, there is no possibility of internal halyards. But having an external spinnaker halyard is a huge problem compared to having it internal. The problem is that the wind takes the halyard and wraps it around the spreaders. We have to be very careful compared to the other boat I raced on which had an internal spinnaker halyard. It was a fractional rig and the halyard did not have a bail. I don't know what it is, but I am positive there is a straight forward solution to putting the spinnaker halyard internal. Lots of boats to check out to see how it is done. I would not leave the spinnaker halyard out if you are converting to internal halyards. Allen On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Michael Robinson < mi… [at] hotmail.com > wrote: I converted to internal halyards on Cal 36 Holiday. I agree with all of Charlie's points especially mast base plate. The base plate would go a long way to solving the problem but you still have a raised house to contend with if you are routing the halyards to the cockpit. I added two extra halyards, one main , one jib when doing the conversion. Never had an issue with halyards fouling. I left the spinnaker external. I did have to run pvc conduit for electrical wires to masthead. The mast must be down to do the job. The two biggest problems: finding sheaves narrow enough to fit four AND the mast was filled with Styrofoam (from Jensen) to prevent electric wires from banging about. It was a terrible job getting it out. Was it worth? Yes I would do it again. Really cleaned things up. Mike Robinson S/V Primrose (former owner Holiday Cal 36) (916) 705-3200

Rule 55. 55 TRASH DISPOSAL A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water. and ISAF Racing Rules Question and Answer Service N 003 Q&A 2013-029 Published: 5 August 2013 Situation Q&A 2013-028 N002 confirms that the common practice of preparing spinnakers using elastic or wool bands at intervals to prevent them from filling during the hoist breaks rule 55 when the spinnakers are hoisted and sheeted and the bands break and end up in the water, even if the material used is bio-degradable. Question What can be done to prevent boats from being protested under rule 55 each time they hoist spinnakers? Answer Rule 55 was introduced to support a development of sailing in a direction towards a higher level of environmental responsibility. Event organizers and officials should also comply with the basic principle in the rulebook about environmental responsibility. Simply deleting rule 55 is the opposite of that. Boats can use different systems when hoisting a spinnaker other than elastic bands or wool (i.e. snuffers or socks). However, if the OA of an event considers it is advisable to allow the use of elastic or wool bands for reasons of safety or proper seamanship, they may change rule 55 by, for example, including in the notice of race words to the effect of: RRS 55 is changed by adding the following sentence to the rule: 'However, discarding elastic or wool bands when setting a sail is permitted.' On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > > Allen, > > Can you post a link to the new rule? We just had the Santa Barbara Channel > Challange and the big boats are still using the yarn/bands on the hoists. > > > Randy > Cal 2-29 > Out Patient > > Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G > > > > Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I don't have a problem with the halyards taking paint off the mast as I do > something similar to what you are saying when putting the boat away. The > shackle goes to its storage spot on the bow pulpit and I take the foreguy > and clip it to the mast run and pull the halyard away from the mast. > > The problem is IF I were to put a fairlead or retaining line of some kind > up where the spreader is. That would prevent the mast run from being able > to be pulled away from the mast. > > I do not use a bow mounted bag to launch the spinnaker. I have a bag > similar to the North Sails rectangular bag. We launch from under the jib > about mid way along the foot. We launch without any strings or rubber > bands or sock. Did you know rubber bands and strings are illegal now? The > issue is if the crew isn't very careful when taking the halyard around and > under the jib and connecting it to the spinnaker and allows any slack in > the line, it will wrap around the spreader. This is likely more of a > problem with a my 36 ft boat than it would be with a 20 ft but I have been > told this was traditionally a huge problem and that people used to come up > with inventive solutions like feeding the halyard through a hole in the > spreader. This only happened once (the first time) but, as I said, it was > a traditional problem before internal halyards. > > I will say we have never had a problem with a launch from the bag. There > was a lot of skepticism from the crew when I said we were going to launch > without strings or bands but nobody questions it any more now that they see > it works. The gybes are working and the only issue is the take down where > all the experienced crew knows a better way to do it. > > It is amazing that everyone can tell you ahead of time to go train on > another boat and learn how to fly a spinnaker. Then when you do it > hundreds of times and get a system down, they all want to tell you a better > way to do it. > > Allen > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < > hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Allen, how about taking the shackles out to the bow pulpit or other >> suitable outboard place for storage. Then hold the mast runs of the >> halyards out to the shrouds with stiff bungee cords, and pull the halyards >> tight. Don’t know if you’ve already tried this, but it should solve the >> paint problem with the slapping.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Take Care**** >> >> Charlie **** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Allen Edwards >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:50 PM >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 1972 Cal T2 - Convert to internal >> halyards?**** >> >> ** ** >> >> >> >> >> **** >> >> The problem is that I need to pull the halyard off the mast when the boat >> is not being sailed so that they don't slap and take all the paint off. >> But I guess on an aluminum mast you could do that.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Jim Englert <sa… [at] gmail.com> >> wrote:**** >> >> **** >> >> Allen,**** >> >> you could always screw a few RWO Bulls eyes in the mast, Part# R2984 >> at APS might work.**** >> >> Also, could screw a section of pvc tubing into the mast above and below >> the spreaders to give the line a guide.**** >> >> The pvc might be the best solution. a 4 foot section above and below the >> spreaders. You could drill a hole in the tube so you could get a screw and >> screw drive in and attached it directly to the mast. Maybe use the >> Bullseye at the exit of the tube to keep the halyard from yanking on it.* >> *** >> >> Jim**** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Allen Edwards < >> al… [at] gmail.com> wrote:**** >> >> **** >> >> I just started using a spinnaker in our races. As my mast is wood, there >> is no possibility of internal halyards. But having an external spinnaker >> halyard is a huge problem compared to having it internal. The problem is >> that the wind takes the halyard and wraps it around the spreaders. We have >> to be very careful compared to the other boat I raced on which had an >> internal spinnaker halyard. It was a fractional rig and the halyard did >> not have a bail. I don't know what it is, but I am positive there is a >> straight forward solution to putting the spinnaker halyard internal. Lots >> of boats to check out to see how it is done. I would not leave the >> spinnaker halyard out if you are converting to internal halyards.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Allen**** >> >> ** ** >> >> On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Michael Robinson < >> mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote:**** >> >> **** >> >> I converted to internal halyards on Cal 36 Holiday. I agree with all of >> Charlie's points especially mast base plate. The base plate would go a long >> way to solving the problem but you still have a raised house to contend >> with if you are routing the halyards to the cockpit. >> I added two extra halyards, one main , one jib when doing the conversion. >> Never had an issue with halyards fouling. I left the spinnaker external. I >> did have to run pvc conduit for electrical wires to masthead. >> The mast must be down to do the job. The two biggest problems: finding >> sheaves narrow enough to fit four AND the mast was filled with Styrofoam >> (from Jensen) to prevent electric wires from banging about. It was a >> terrible job getting it out. >> Was it worth? Yes I would do it again. Really cleaned things up. >> >> >> **** >> >> *Mike Robinson***** >> >> *S/V Primrose (former owner Holiday Cal 36)***** >> >> *(916) 705-3200***** >> >> **** >> >> > >

A good friend of mine used to dive his boat and put a rubber band on his folding propellor once he was near the start area. He stopped doing that when rule 55 went into effect. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Rubber Bands and yarn Rule 55. 55 TRASH DISPOSAL A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water. and ISAF Racing Rules Question and Answer Service N 003 Q&A 2013-029 Published: 5 August 2013 Situation Q&A 2013-028 N002 confirms that the common practice of preparing spinnakers using elastic or wool bands at intervals to prevent them from filling during the hoist breaks rule 55 when the spinnakers are hoisted and sheeted and the bands break and end up in the water, even if the material used is bio-degradable. Question What can be done to prevent boats from being protested under rule 55 each time they hoist spinnakers? Answer Rule 55 was introduced to support a development of sailing in a direction towards a higher level of environmental responsibility. Event organizers and officials should also comply with the basic principle in the rulebook about environmental responsibility. Simply deleting rule 55 is the opposite of that. Boats can use different systems when hoisting a spinnaker other than elastic bands or wool (i.e. snuffers or socks). However, if the OA of an event considers it is advisable to allow the use of elastic or wool bands for reasons of safety or proper seamanship, they may change rule 55 by, for example, including in the notice of race words to the effect of: RRS 55 is changed by adding the following sentence to the rule: 'However, discarding elastic or wool bands when setting a sail is permitted.' On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Randy <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Allen, > > >Can you post a link to the new rule? We just had the Santa Barbara Channel Challange and the big boats are still using the yarn/bands on the hoists. > > > > >Randy >Cal 2-29 >Out Patient > >Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G > > >Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > >I don't have a problem with the halyards taking paint off the mast as I do something similar to what you are saying when putting the boat away. The shackle goes to its storage spot on the bow pulpit and I take the foreguy and clip it to the mast run and pull the halyard away from the mast. > > >The problem is IF I were to put a fairlead or retaining line of some kind up where the spreader is. That would prevent the mast run from being able to be pulled away from the mast. > > >I do not use a bow mounted bag to launch the spinnaker. I have a bag similar to the North Sails rectangular bag. We launch from under the jib about mid way along the foot. We launch without any strings or rubber bands or sock. Did you know rubber bands and strings are illegal now? The issue is if the crew isn't very careful when taking the halyard around and under the jib and connecting it to the spinnaker and allows any slack in the line, it will wrap around the spreader. This is likely more of a problem with a my 36 ft boat than it would be with a 20 ft but I have been told this was traditionally a huge problem and that people used to come up with inventive solutions like feeding the halyard through a hole in the spreader. This only happened once (the first time) but, as I said, it was a traditional problem before internal halyards. > > >I will say we have never had a problem with a launch from the bag. There was a lot of skepticism from the crew when I said we were going to launch without strings or bands but nobody questions it any more now that they see it works. The gybes are working and the only issue is the take down where all the experienced crew knows a better way to do it. > > >It is amazing that everyone can tell you ahead of time to go train on another boat and learn how to fly a spinnaker. Then when you do it hundreds of times and get a system down, they all want to tell you a better way to do it. > > >Allen > > > >On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > > >> >>Allen, how about taking the shackles out to the bow pulpit or other suitable outboard place for storage. Then hold the mast runs of the halyards out to the shrouds with stiff bungee cords, and pull the halyards tight. Don’t know if you’ve already tried this, but it should solve the paint problem with the slapping. >> >>Take Care >>Charlie >> >>From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Edwards >>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:50 PM >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 1972 Cal T2 - Convert to internal halyards? >> >> >> >> >> >>The problem is that I need to pull the halyard off the mast when the boat is not being sailed so that they don't slap and take all the paint off. But I guess on an aluminum mast you could do that. >> >>On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Jim Englert <sa… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >> >>Allen, >> you could always screw a few RWO Bulls eyes in the mast, Part# R2984 at APS might work. >>Also, could screw a section of pvc tubing into the mast above and below the spreaders to give the line a guide. >>The pvc might be the best solution. a 4 foot section above and below the spreaders. You could drill a hole in the tube so you could get a screw and screw drive in and attached it directly to the mast. Maybe use the Bullseye at the exit of the tube to keep the halyard from yanking on it. >>Jim >> >> >>On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >> >>I just started using a spinnaker in our races. As my mast is wood, there is no possibility of internal halyards. But having an external spinnaker halyard is a huge problem compared to having it internal. The problem is that the wind takes the halyard and wraps it around the spreaders. We have to be very careful compared to the other boat I raced on which had an internal spinnaker halyard. It was a fractional rig and the halyard did not have a bail. I don't know what it is, but I am positive there is a straight forward solution to putting the spinnaker halyard internal. Lots of boats to check out to see how it is done. I would not leave the spinnaker halyard out if you are converting to internal halyards. >> >>Allen >> >>On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Michael Robinson <mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>I converted to internal halyards on Cal 36 Holiday. I agree with all of Charlie's points especially mast base plate. The base plate would go a long way to solving the problem but you still have a raised house to contend with if you are routing the halyards to the cockpit. >>I added two extra halyards, one main , one jib when doing the conversion. Never had an issue with halyards fouling. I left the spinnaker external. I did have to run pvc conduit for electrical wires to masthead. >>The mast must be down to do the job. The two biggest problems: finding sheaves narrow enough to fit four AND the mast was filled with Styrofoam (from Jensen) to prevent electric wires from banging about. It was a terrible job getting it out. >>Was it worth? Yes I would do it again. Really cleaned things up. >> >> >> >>Mike Robinson >>S/V Primrose (former owner Holiday Cal 36) >>(916) 705-3200 >> >