Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds - now Racing/Cruising - now racing

We are way off topic now but a fine point I just learned last year. In the standard 5, 4, 1, 0 countdown to the start where 5 is the warning signal or class flag, 4 is the preparatory signal raised etc, you are not racing until the 4 minute signal. One fine point of this for the racers is that this means you can run your engine up to the 4 minute signal. This was a surprise to me and most of the racers and in the case of our club, not the rule as our sailing instructions say the 5 minute signal is the start of racing. But thinking of it this is most reasonable as without a synchronized clock, you don't know how long you have so disqualifying someone for running their engine at a point of time they cannot predict would not be fair. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > ** > > > Important part is not to get between the racing boat and the wind. > Racers don’t mind if you are not too far away leeward. In fact, cruisers > have a right to be wherever they want if not violating the standard rules > of navigation. But still, being nice never hurt.**** > > ** ** > > Cheers**** > > Charlie**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Leslie Newman > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:43 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds**** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > Thanks for all the comments. It's much clearer to me now. FYI, I never got > too close to any other boat. Was always several hundred yards away. I > figured as George mentioned, give them space. I also figured some of them > would probably run over me to win, so I best stay clear.**** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:25 PM, George Barlow <ge… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote:**** > > **** > > This thread has gone pretty far off "22 knot winds" but everyone should > know at least Rule 23.1 of the Racing Rules of Sailing. Basically if you > are not racing, keep clear of boats that are racing. The term "racing" > means, for those who are participating, a period from when their fleet > signal is raised until they finish. It means you don't mess with any boat > that is racing while you are waiting for your turn to start. I think it's > a courtesy to racers to avoid their race course and if you can't, to dip > below or otherwise avoid interfering with the racing.**** > > ** ** > > We have a smaller lake, and over 104 races per year, so we may encounter > racing at any time. It's fun to get close to watch the action, but it's > courteous to give the racers plenty of room.**** > > ___________________**** > > George Barlow**** > > **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Oct 15, 2013, at 11:36 AM, John Raxter wrote:**** > > > > **** > > **** > > ** ** > > I agree with Charlie, when racing you are pretty sure (not absolutely) > that the person at the helm understands right of way rules, and observant > crew are keeping him informed of other boats he may not see (sails and > concentration on other task to make the boat go fast). **** > > ** ** > > Basic "rules of the road" apply in all cases. Racing has a few > enhancements as boats get close to each other, marks and obstructions. *** > * > > ** ** > > The nice thing about racing is you become aware of the "other boats" and > your judgement and reactions are better. When you get back to "cruising > mode" you feel more relaxed and confident on your skills and ability to > control your boat. > > John Raxter**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > On Oct 15, 2013, at 9:31 AM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" < > hu… [at] bah.com> wrote:**** > > **** > > ** ** > > Hi, Leslie. There are just a couple rules that govern who can do what to > whom, and who has right-of-way. Even in the tight stack of boats at the > racing start, I feel safer there than I do out cruising on a day like the 4 > th of July when one is not sure who knows what about right-of-way and > concentration. There are indeed a couple differences between standard and > racing rules, but the racing is a great way to learn about how your boat > handles.**** > > **** > > Cheers**** > > Charlie**** > > Annapolis**** > > **** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>] > *On Behalf Of *Leslie Newman > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:00 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds**** > > **** > > > > **** > > Thanks for the advice. So, what the heck are they doing? I see a power > boat beside an orange buoy. All the boats are doing some loop I take it. A > few weeks ago we were out near Stingray point and a regatta was in > progress. We sailed nearby and sailed by watching as the boats jockeyed > around. Some of them came very, very close to each other as they crossed > paths.**** > > **** > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> > wrote:**** > > **** > > I remember when we were new to sailing and declined to enter a regatta > with our friends. Our fleet captain told us to just go out and tag along > and follow what everyone else was doing. Well we finished last, but we > began to see what everyone was doing in front of us and learned. By the > third or fourth regatta we were mixing it up with the middle of the fleet! > Had tons of fun for years sailing races.**** > > **** > > Just bite the bullet and enter one. Don't be aggressive and hang back and > watch what all the other boats do. Soon you will find yourself reading the > rules and joining the fun in the pack!**** > > **** > > Don Dutton**** > > 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution"**** > > **** > > On Oct 13, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Leslie Newman wrote:**** > > ** ** > > **** > > **** > > No. Actually, we just drove down to check on the boat, but the wind was so > good I asked Claire if she would mind going out a few hours. She was game > and we scooted out and headed up river. Saw that the regatta was in > progress. Sailed by, then turned back for home. Was a fun time out there > today. I don't think Claire and I are ready for a regatta yet. Still > getting our sea legs after being away from sailing a few years.**** > > **** > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 9:04 PM, sailor7312 . <sa… [at] gmail.com> > wrote:**** > > **** > > **** > > did you do the turkey shoot regatta today?**** > > Jim**** > > Cal 29 sailor(Mobjack Bay)**** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > > > **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > **** > > >

This is the P flag which is the preparatory signal. If it is up, they are "racing". Correcto on the 4 minute rule. The fleet flag goes up first. Then the P flag to signal the starting sequence for the fleet. We have multiple fleets starting in sequence, so there may be a minute when the prior fleet has started and the next fleet's signal is raised, followed by its P for preparatory signal. Peace, and out for me. George Barlow On Oct 15, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > We are way off topic now but a fine point I just learned last year. In the standard 5, 4, 1, 0 countdown to the start where 5 is the warning signal or class flag, 4 is the preparatory signal raised etc, you are not racing until the 4 minute signal. One fine point of this for the racers is that this means you can run your engine up to the 4 minute signal. This was a surprise to me and most of the racers and in the case of our club, not the rule as our sailing instructions say the 5 minute signal is the start of racing. But thinking of it this is most reasonable as without a synchronized clock, you don't know how long you have so disqualifying someone for running their engine at a point of time they cannot predict would not be fair. > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > > > Important part is not to get between the racing boat and the wind. Racers don’t mind if you are not too far away leeward. In fact, cruisers have a right to be wherever they want if not violating the standard rules of navigation. But still, being nice never hurt. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Newman > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:43 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the comments. It's much clearer to me now. FYI, I never got too close to any other boat. Was always several hundred yards away. I figured as George mentioned, give them space. I also figured some of them would probably run over me to win, so I best stay clear. > > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:25 PM, George Barlow <ge… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > This thread has gone pretty far off "22 knot winds" but everyone should know at least Rule 23.1 of the Racing Rules of Sailing. Basically if you are not racing, keep clear of boats that are racing. The term "racing" means, for those who are participating, a period from when their fleet signal is raised until they finish. It means you don't mess with any boat that is racing while you are waiting for your turn to start. I think it's a courtesy to racers to avoid their race course and if you can't, to dip below or otherwise avoid interfering with the racing. > > > > We have a smaller lake, and over 104 races per year, so we may encounter racing at any time. It's fun to get close to watch the action, but it's courteous to give the racers plenty of room. > > ___________________ > > George Barlow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2013, at 11:36 AM, John Raxter wrote: > > > > > > > > > I agree with Charlie, when racing you are pretty sure (not absolutely) that the person at the helm understands right of way rules, and observant crew are keeping him informed of other boats he may not see (sails and concentration on other task to make the boat go fast). > > > > Basic "rules of the road" apply in all cases. Racing has a few enhancements as boats get close to each other, marks and obstructions. > > > > The nice thing about racing is you become aware of the "other boats" and your judgement and reactions are better. When you get back to "cruising mode" you feel more relaxed and confident on your skills and ability to control your boat. > > John Raxter > > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2013, at 9:31 AM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, Leslie. There are just a couple rules that govern who can do what to whom, and who has right-of-way. Even in the tight stack of boats at the racing start, I feel safer there than I do out cruising on a day like the 4th of July when one is not sure who knows what about right-of-way and concentration. There are indeed a couple differences between standard and racing rules, but the racing is a great way to learn about how your boat handles. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > Annapolis > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Newman > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:00 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds > > > > > > > Thanks for the advice. So, what the heck are they doing? I see a power boat beside an orange buoy. All the boats are doing some loop I take it. A few weeks ago we were out near Stingray point and a regatta was in progress. We sailed nearby and sailed by watching as the boats jockeyed around. Some of them came very, very close to each other as they crossed paths. > > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > > > > I remember when we were new to sailing and declined to enter a regatta with our friends. Our fleet captain told us to just go out and tag along and follow what everyone else was doing. Well we finished last, but we began to see what everyone was doing in front of us and learned. By the third or fourth regatta we were mixing it up with the middle of the fleet! Had tons of fun for years sailing races. > > > > Just bite the bullet and enter one. Don't be aggressive and hang back and watch what all the other boats do. Soon you will find yourself reading the rules and joining the fun in the pack! > > > > Don Dutton > > 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > On Oct 13, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Leslie Newman wrote: > > > > > > > > No. Actually, we just drove down to check on the boat, but the wind was so good I asked Claire if she would mind going out a few hours. She was game and we scooted out and headed up river. Saw that the regatta was in progress. Sailed by, then turned back for home. Was a fun time out there today. I don't think Claire and I are ready for a regatta yet. Still getting our sea legs after being away from sailing a few years. > > > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 9:04 PM, sailor7312 . <sa… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > did you do the turkey shoot regatta today? > > Jim > > Cal 29 sailor(Mobjack Bay) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Exactly. Just pointing out the previous misconception that the class flag means you are racing. I think it is a misconception shared widely. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:30 PM, George Barlow <ge… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > [image: -signal-flag-letter-p-papa.jpg] > This is the P flag which is the preparatory signal. If it is up, they > are "racing". Correcto on the 4 minute rule. The fleet flag goes up first. > Then the P flag to signal the starting sequence for the fleet. We have > multiple fleets starting in sequence, so there may be a minute when the > prior fleet has started and the next fleet's signal is raised, followed by > its P for preparatory signal. > > Peace, and out for me. > ________________ > George Barlow > > > > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: > > > > We are way off topic now but a fine point I just learned last year. In > the standard 5, 4, 1, 0 countdown to the start where 5 is the warning > signal or class flag, 4 is the preparatory signal raised etc, you are not > racing until the 4 minute signal. One fine point of this for the racers is > that this means you can run your engine up to the 4 minute signal. This > was a surprise to me and most of the racers and in the case of our club, > not the rule as our sailing instructions say the 5 minute signal is the > start of racing. But thinking of it this is most reasonable as without a > synchronized clock, you don't know how long you have so disqualifying > someone for running their engine at a point of time they cannot predict > would not be fair. > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < > hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Important part is not to get between the racing boat and the wind. >> Racers don’t mind if you are not too far away leeward. In fact, cruisers >> have a right to be wherever they want if not violating the standard rules >> of navigation. But still, being nice never hurt.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Cheers**** >> >> Charlie**** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Leslie Newman >> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:43 PM >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds**** >> >> ** ** >> >> >> >> >> **** >> >> Thanks for all the comments. It's much clearer to me now. FYI, I never >> got too close to any other boat. Was always several hundred yards away. I >> figured as George mentioned, give them space. I also figured some of them >> would probably run over me to win, so I best stay clear.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:25 PM, George Barlow <ge… [at] yahoo.com> >> wrote:**** >> >> **** >> >> This thread has gone pretty far off "22 knot winds" but everyone should >> know at least Rule 23.1 of the Racing Rules of Sailing. Basically if you >> are not racing, keep clear of boats that are racing. The term "racing" >> means, for those who are participating, a period from when their fleet >> signal is raised until they finish. It means you don't mess with any boat >> that is racing while you are waiting for your turn to start. I think it's >> a courtesy to racers to avoid their race course and if you can't, to dip >> below or otherwise avoid interfering with the racing.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> We have a smaller lake, and over 104 races per year, so we may encounter >> racing at any time. It's fun to get close to watch the action, but it's >> courteous to give the racers plenty of room.**** >> >> ___________________**** >> >> George Barlow**** >> >> **** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> On Oct 15, 2013, at 11:36 AM, John Raxter wrote:**** >> >> >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> ** ** >> >> I agree with Charlie, when racing you are pretty sure (not absolutely) >> that the person at the helm understands right of way rules, and observant >> crew are keeping him informed of other boats he may not see (sails and >> concentration on other task to make the boat go fast). **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Basic "rules of the road" apply in all cases. Racing has a few >> enhancements as boats get close to each other, marks and obstructions. ** >> ** >> >> ** ** >> >> The nice thing about racing is you become aware of the "other boats" and >> your judgement and reactions are better. When you get back to "cruising >> mode" you feel more relaxed and confident on your skills and ability to >> control your boat. >> >> John Raxter**** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> >> On Oct 15, 2013, at 9:31 AM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" < >> hu… [at] bah.com> wrote:**** >> >> **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Hi, Leslie. There are just a couple rules that govern who can do what to >> whom, and who has right-of-way. Even in the tight stack of boats at the >> racing start, I feel safer there than I do out cruising on a day like the 4 >> th of July when one is not sure who knows what about right-of-way and >> concentration. There are indeed a couple differences between standard and >> racing rules, but the racing is a great way to learn about how your boat >> handles.**** >> >> **** >> >> Cheers**** >> >> Charlie**** >> >> Annapolis**** >> >> **** >> >> *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>] >> *On Behalf Of *Leslie Newman >> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:00 AM >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds**** >> >> **** >> >> >> >> **** >> >> Thanks for the advice. So, what the heck are they doing? I see a power >> boat beside an orange buoy. All the boats are doing some loop I take it. A >> few weeks ago we were out near Stingray point and a regatta was in >> progress. We sailed nearby and sailed by watching as the boats jockeyed >> around. Some of them came very, very close to each other as they crossed >> paths.**** >> >> **** >> >> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> >> wrote:**** >> >> **** >> >> I remember when we were new to sailing and declined to enter a regatta >> with our friends. Our fleet captain told us to just go out and tag along >> and follow what everyone else was doing. Well we finished last, but we >> began to see what everyone was doing in front of us and learned. By the >> third or fourth regatta we were mixing it up with the middle of the fleet! >> Had tons of fun for years sailing races.**** >> >> **** >> >> Just bite the bullet and enter one. Don't be aggressive and hang back >> and watch what all the other boats do. Soon you will find yourself reading >> the rules and joining the fun in the pack!**** >> >> **** >> >> Don Dutton**** >> >> 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution"**** >> >> **** >> >> On Oct 13, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Leslie Newman wrote:**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> No. Actually, we just drove down to check on the boat, but the wind was >> so good I asked Claire if she would mind going out a few hours. She was >> game and we scooted out and headed up river. Saw that the regatta was in >> progress. Sailed by, then turned back for home. Was a fun time out there >> today. I don't think Claire and I are ready for a regatta yet. Still >> getting our sea legs after being away from sailing a few years.**** >> >> **** >> >> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 9:04 PM, sailor7312 . <sa… [at] gmail.com> >> wrote:**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> did you do the turkey shoot regatta today?**** >> >> Jim**** >> >> Cal 29 sailor(Mobjack Bay)**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> >> >> **** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> >> >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> > > >