Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds - now Racing/Cruising

Important part is not to get between the racing boat and the wind. Racers don't mind if you are not too far away leeward. In fact, cruisers have a right to be wherever they want if not violating the standard rules of navigation. But still, being nice never hurt. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Newman Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds Thanks for all the comments. It's much clearer to me now. FYI, I never got too close to any other boat. Was always several hundred yards away. I figured as George mentioned, give them space. I also figured some of them would probably run over me to win, so I best stay clear. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:25 PM, George Barlow <ge… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:ge… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: This thread has gone pretty far off "22 knot winds" but everyone should know at least Rule 23.1 of the Racing Rules of Sailing. Basically if you are not racing, keep clear of boats that are racing. The term "racing" means, for those who are participating, a period from when their fleet signal is raised until they finish. It means you don't mess with any boat that is racing while you are waiting for your turn to start. I think it's a courtesy to racers to avoid their race course and if you can't, to dip below or otherwise avoid interfering with the racing. We have a smaller lake, and over 104 races per year, so we may encounter racing at any time. It's fun to get close to watch the action, but it's courteous to give the racers plenty of room. George Barlow On Oct 15, 2013, at 11:36 AM, John Raxter wrote: I agree with Charlie, when racing you are pretty sure (not absolutely) that the person at the helm understands right of way rules, and observant crew are keeping him informed of other boats he may not see (sails and concentration on other task to make the boat go fast). Basic "rules of the road" apply in all cases. Racing has a few enhancements as boats get close to each other, marks and obstructions. The nice thing about racing is you become aware of the "other boats" and your judgement and reactions are better. When you get back to "cruising mode" you feel more relaxed and confident on your skills and ability to control your boat. John Raxter On Oct 15, 2013, at 9:31 AM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com<mailto:hu… [at] bah.com>> wrote: Hi, Leslie. There are just a couple rules that govern who can do what to whom, and who has right-of-way. Even in the tight stack of boats at the racing start, I feel safer there than I do out cruising on a day like the 4th of July when one is not sure who knows what about right-of-way and concentration. There are indeed a couple differences between standard and racing rules, but the racing is a great way to learn about how your boat handles. Cheers Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Newman Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:00 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds Thanks for the advice. So, what the heck are they doing? I see a power boat beside an orange buoy. All the boats are doing some loop I take it. A few weeks ago we were out near Stingray point and a regatta was in progress. We sailed nearby and sailed by watching as the boats jockeyed around. Some of them came very, very close to each other as they crossed paths. On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net<mailto:dn… [at] comcast.net>> wrote: I remember when we were new to sailing and declined to enter a regatta with our friends. Our fleet captain told us to just go out and tag along and follow what everyone else was doing. Well we finished last, but we began to see what everyone was doing in front of us and learned. By the third or fourth regatta we were mixing it up with the middle of the fleet! Had tons of fun for years sailing races. Just bite the bullet and enter one. Don't be aggressive and hang back and watch what all the other boats do. Soon you will find yourself reading the rules and joining the fun in the pack! Don Dutton 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On Oct 13, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Leslie Newman wrote: No. Actually, we just drove down to check on the boat, but the wind was so good I asked Claire if she would mind going out a few hours. She was game and we scooted out and headed up river. Saw that the regatta was in progress. Sailed by, then turned back for home. Was a fun time out there today. I don't think Claire and I are ready for a regatta yet. Still getting our sea legs after being away from sailing a few years. On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 9:04 PM, sailor7312 . <sa… [at] gmail.com<mailto:sa… [at] gmail.com>> wrote: did you do the turkey shoot regatta today? Jim Cal 29 sailor(Mobjack Bay)

Just as a note, Charlie, sometimes it is not true that cruisers have a "right" to be where ever they wish. When we ran the Flying Scot Midwinters in Panama City at the St. Andrews Bay Yacht Club we had to apply to the USCG for a permit. Part of the permit created a "restricted area" on the St. Andrews Bay and we had to run our races miles away from the Yacht Club so that the restricted area was enforceable and well removed from normal traffic lanes. The yacht club and the coast guard issued radio warnings against traffic through the race course and violators were subject to fines. There were clearly marked boundaries that were patrolled by CGA and yacht club vessels that prevented cruisers from crossing the course. All of this is done in the interest of safety for the racers as well as the cruiser. I used my Cal 33-2 as a spectator boat for club members and friends who wanted to view the races, but we also ran interference a couple of times to cut off cruisers whose course appeared to be crossing the race course. Thought you would like to know! Don Dutton 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On Oct 15, 2013, at 12:02 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > Important part is not to get between the racing boat and the wind. Racers don’t mind if you are not too far away leeward. In fact, cruisers have a right to be wherever they want if not violating the standard rules of navigation. But still, being nice never hurt. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Newman > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 2:43 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the comments. It's much clearer to me now. FYI, I never got too close to any other boat. Was always several hundred yards away. I figured as George mentioned, give them space. I also figured some of them would probably run over me to win, so I best stay clear. > > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:25 PM, George Barlow <ge… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > This thread has gone pretty far off "22 knot winds" but everyone should know at least Rule 23.1 of the Racing Rules of Sailing. Basically if you are not racing, keep clear of boats that are racing. The term "racing" means, for those who are participating, a period from when their fleet signal is raised until they finish. It means you don't mess with any boat that is racing while you are waiting for your turn to start. I think it's a courtesy to racers to avoid their race course and if you can't, to dip below or otherwise avoid interfering with the racing. > > > > We have a smaller lake, and over 104 races per year, so we may encounter racing at any time. It's fun to get close to watch the action, but it's courteous to give the racers plenty of room. > > ___________________ > > George Barlow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2013, at 11:36 AM, John Raxter wrote: > > > > > > > > > I agree with Charlie, when racing you are pretty sure (not absolutely) that the person at the helm understands right of way rules, and observant crew are keeping him informed of other boats he may not see (sails and concentration on other task to make the boat go fast). > > > > Basic "rules of the road" apply in all cases. Racing has a few enhancements as boats get close to each other, marks and obstructions. > > > > The nice thing about racing is you become aware of the "other boats" and your judgement and reactions are better. When you get back to "cruising mode" you feel more relaxed and confident on your skills and ability to control your boat. > > John Raxter > > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2013, at 9:31 AM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, Leslie. There are just a couple rules that govern who can do what to whom, and who has right-of-way. Even in the tight stack of boats at the racing start, I feel safer there than I do out cruising on a day like the 4th of July when one is not sure who knows what about right-of-way and concentration. There are indeed a couple differences between standard and racing rules, but the racing is a great way to learn about how your boat handles. > > > > Cheers > > Charlie > > Annapolis > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Newman > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:00 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds > > > > > > > Thanks for the advice. So, what the heck are they doing? I see a power boat beside an orange buoy. All the boats are doing some loop I take it. A few weeks ago we were out near Stingray point and a regatta was in progress. We sailed nearby and sailed by watching as the boats jockeyed around. Some of them came very, very close to each other as they crossed paths. > > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: > > > > I remember when we were new to sailing and declined to enter a regatta with our friends. Our fleet captain told us to just go out and tag along and follow what everyone else was doing. Well we finished last, but we began to see what everyone was doing in front of us and learned. By the third or fourth regatta we were mixing it up with the middle of the fleet! Had tons of fun for years sailing races. > > > > Just bite the bullet and enter one. Don't be aggressive and hang back and watch what all the other boats do. Soon you will find yourself reading the rules and joining the fun in the pack! > > > > Don Dutton > > 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > > > On Oct 13, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Leslie Newman wrote: > > > > > > > > No. Actually, we just drove down to check on the boat, but the wind was so good I asked Claire if she would mind going out a few hours. She was game and we scooted out and headed up river. Saw that the regatta was in progress. Sailed by, then turned back for home. Was a fun time out there today. I don't think Claire and I are ready for a regatta yet. Still getting our sea legs after being away from sailing a few years. > > > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 9:04 PM, sailor7312 . <sa… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > did you do the turkey shoot regatta today? > > Jim > > Cal 29 sailor(Mobjack Bay) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Thanks, Don. As I recall, the only time I heard about that around here was when the Volvo Ocean Race people came to town, and had an in-port race. One thing I note. Being a racer I am used to being close to boats and having close passes. On the occasions when I am out cruising, I'm not concerned about getting (relatively) close to other boats. Sometimes cruisers get freaked out and start waving and yelling and cussing. I just say "hold your course" or "keep your pants on" or word to that effect. But I guess they have right to suspect I don't know what I'm doing since so many people out there don't (know what they're doing). Power boats scare me in the same way. Cheers Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald C Dutton Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 11:06 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: Donald C Dutton Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds - now Racing/Cruising Just as a note, Charlie, sometimes it is not true that cruisers have a "right" to be where ever they wish. When we ran the Flying Scot Midwinters in Panama City at the St. Andrews Bay Yacht Club we had to apply to the USCG for a permit. Part of the permit created a "restricted area" on the St. Andrews Bay and we had to run our races miles away from the Yacht Club so that the restricted area was enforceable and well removed from normal traffic lanes. The yacht club and the coast guard issued radio warnings against traffic through the race course and violators were subject to fines. There were clearly marked boundaries that were patrolled by CGA and yacht club vessels that prevented cruisers from crossing the course. All of this is done in the interest of safety for the racers as well as the cruiser. I used my Cal 33-2 as a spectator boat for club members and friends who wanted to view the races, but we also ran interference a couple of times to cut off cruisers whose course appeared to be crossing the race course. Thought you would like to know! Don Dutton 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" On Oct 15, 2013, at 12:02 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: Important part is not to get between the racing boat and the wind. Racers don't mind if you are not too far away leeward. In fact, cruisers have a right to be wherever they want if not violating the standard rules of navigation. But still, being nice never hurt. Cheers Charlie

On 10/16/2013 12:43 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > One thing I note. Being a racer I am used to being close to boats and > having close passes. On the occasions when I am out cruising, I'm > not concerned about getting (relatively) close to other boats. > Sometimes cruisers get freaked out and start waving and yelling and > cussing. I just say "hold your course" or "keep your pants on" or > word to that effect. But I guess they have right to suspect I don't > know what I'm doing since so many people out there don't (know what > they're doing). > One key is making your course, and any changes of course, evident so your intentions are known. The COLREGS require making changes quite visible, as I recall. And generally, our boats are less maneuverable than cars--they are slower to respond and are affected by weather changes (they round up in gusts, for example). So unless it is a race, it's probably best to avoid unnecessarily close encounters. My Cal 20 lives in a mooring field, and my other boat is in a marina that's almost two miles up a dredged channel, so in those places, close proximity is expected. In fact, when sailing off my mooring, I've had a couple VERY close encounters (ranging from "oops" to "oh, shit"), but luckily the other vessel owners weren't aboard to panic. In the dredged channel, you tolerate closer passes than out in open water. It's all a mater of context. Chris Campbell

I was in a college regatta at the Naval Academy when a cruising sailboat stopped right in front of our Gybe mark and decided to watch the races. LOL. Was interesting to say the least. LOL. Jim, East Coast Cal 29 sailor.

What happened? From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sailor7312 . Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:04 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 22 knot winds - now Racing/Cruising I was in a college regatta at the Naval Academy when a cruising sailboat stopped right in front of our Gybe mark and decided to watch the races. LOL. Was interesting to say the least. LOL. Jim, East Coast Cal 29 sailor.

...We said foul things and went around the boat. It did change the leaders. The fleet split around the boat. The joke at the end of the day was "..so there was this cruising boat and he decide, hey honey, lets stop and watch the races." He was right in front of the mark LOL. Annapolis is an interesting area. Most of the time ok, but every once in a while, interesting. I'll take Mobjack Bay. Most of the time I am the only boat out there. Jim