Deep bilge in CAL 2-34

On my CAL 2-34 the bilge has a "Platform" within most of the keel, which is about 2ft deep, but then on the trailing end of the keel it literally drops down to the bottom of the 5ft keel for about a 2 ft long section, just about right under the V-Drive. Anything that falls in there is gone - mind you I have a wingspan of almost 7ft when I stretch out my arms but I can't reach the bottom of that well - not even while holding foot long needle nose pliers. Fishing out the bilge pump, or worse, the block of lead it was mounted on was a nightmare the other day; I also found screws, hose clamps pieces of old hose and Lord knows what else is still down there. This leads me to my question - is it advisable to poor something in there that will set/harden and give me a new floor at a level that is more workable? After a thorough cleaning and scrubbing, could I poor a mix made of fine cement, or grout, or anything else that would "set" in there, and follow that with a batch of mixed resin to make the bond with the fiberglass, seal the crete, fill in any voids and make it water tight? What am I not thinking of that should stop me from doing this?

Definitely do not poor concrete in there…. Wilkie On the way out the door, but will try to respond later…. On Jan 9, 2014, at 11:37 AM, du… [at] aim.com wrote: > > > On my CAL 2-34 the bilge has a "Platform" within most of the keel, which is about 2ft deep, but then on the trailing end of the keel it literally drops down to the bottom of the 5ft keel for about a 2 ft long section, just about right under the V-Drive. > > Anything that falls in there is gone - mind you I have a wingspan of almost 7ft when I stretch out my arms but I can't reach the bottom of that well - not even while holding foot long needle nose pliers. > > Fishing out the bilge pump, or worse, the block of lead it was mounted on was a nightmare the other day; I also found screws, hose clamps pieces of old hose and Lord knows what else is still down there. > > This leads me to my question - is it advisable to poor something in there that will set/harden and give me a new floor at a level that is more workable? After a thorough cleaning and scrubbing, could I poor a mix made of fine cement, or grout, or anything else that would "set" in there, and follow that with a batch of mixed resin to make the bond with the fiberglass, seal the crete, fill in any voids and make it water tight? > > What am I not thinking of that should stop me from doing this? > >

The keel on the 227 has a similar arrangement and I cannot touch the bottom of the bilge. The only problem I ever had was lifting the bilge pump out; I solved this problem by a piece of ¾ “ PVC pipe or conduit, cutting a ½” wide notch about an inch from one end using a very large hose clamp I wrapped the clamp around the pump and the pipe at the notch point. I can now remove my pump with no problem and usually with dry hands. John b Cal227 #650 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of du… [at] aim.com Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 2:37 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Deep bilge in CAL 2-34 On my CAL 2-34 the bilge has a "Platform" within most of the keel, which is about 2ft deep, but then on the trailing end of the keel it literally drops down to the bottom of the 5ft keel for about a 2 ft long section, just about right under the V-Drive. Anything that falls in there is gone - mind you I have a wingspan of almost 7ft when I stretch out my arms but I can't reach the bottom of that well - not even while holding foot long needle nose pliers. Fishing out the bilge pump, or worse, the block of lead it was mounted on was a nightmare the other day; I also found screws, hose clamps pieces of old hose and Lord knows what else is still down there. This leads me to my question - is it advisable to poor something in there that will set/harden and give me a new floor at a level that is more workable? After a thorough cleaning and scrubbing, could I poor a mix made of fine cement, or grout, or anything else that would "set" in there, and follow that with a batch of mixed resin to make the bond with the fiberglass, seal the crete, fill in any voids and make it water tight? What am I not thinking of that should stop me from doing this?

I have a CAL 34 with a similar deep bilge and spend a lot of time fishing things out of there too. I use a variety of methods to recover various items taking temporary residence there. Depending on the item's shape, weight, texture and value, effective recovery methods include: shop vac with a long hose, duct tape on a long pole, hook on a pole, magnet on a string, and lots of cussing. Although I often think a shallower bilge would be better for me, I also wonder whether the the boat would be better off with the existing deep bilge to provide more storage capacity allowing more time to respond in case of water intrusion. A shallower bilge would certainly relieve some of the time spent retreiving errant items that invariably find the deep bilge no mater how convoluted the travel path. Almost no other boat has a bilge so deep and they stay afloat. On Thursday, January 9, 2014 2:37 PM, "du… [at] aim.com" <du… [at] aim.com> wrote: On my CAL 2-34 the bilge has a "Platform" within most of the keel, which is about 2ft deep, but then on the trailing end of the keel it literally drops down to the bottom of the 5ft keel for about a 2 ft long section, just about right under the V-Drive. Anything that falls in there is gone - mind you I have a wingspan of almost 7ft when I stretch out my arms but I can't reach the bottom of that well - not even while holding foot long needle nose pliers. Fishing out the bilge pump, or worse, the block of lead it was mounted on was a nightmare the other day; I also found screws, hose clamps pieces of old hose and Lord knows what else is still down there. This leads me to my question - is it advisable to poor something in there that will set/harden and give me a new floor at a level that is more workable? After a thorough cleaning and scrubbing, could I poor a mix made of fine cement, or grout, or anything else that would "set" in there, and follow that with a batch of mixed resin to make the bond with the fiberglass, seal the crete, fill in any voids and make it water tight? What am I not thinking of that should stop me from doing this?

On 1/9/2014 2:37 PM, du… [at] aim.com wrote: > > > On my CAL 2-34 the bilge has a "Platform" within most of the keel, > which is about 2ft deep, but then on the trailing end of the keel it > literally drops down to the bottom of the 5ft keel for about a 2 ft > long section, just about right under the V-Drive. > > Anything that falls in there is gone - mind you I have a wingspan of > almost 7ft when I stretch out my arms but I can't reach the bottom of > that well - not even while holding foot long needle nose pliers. > > Fishing out the bilge pump, or worse, the block of lead it was mounted > on was a nightmare the other day; I also found screws, hose clamps > pieces of old hose and Lord knows what else is still down there. > > This leads me to my question - is it advisable to poor something in > there that will set/harden and give me a new floor at a level that is > more workable? One advantage of a deep bilge is that it will hold a lot of water, and that can sometimes be an advantage. I like the suggestion of a pump mounted on a wand so you can retrieve it. Perhaps you could also make a screen on a long stick that you could retrieve the same way. It would let you retrieve stuff that fell to the bottom but would preserve the volume of the sump. Chris Campbell

On 1/9/2014 4:02 PM, Brian McNamara wrote: > > > I also wonder whether the the boat would be better off with the > existing deep bilge to provide more storage capacity allowing more > time to respond in case of water intrusion. A shallower bilge would > certainly relieve some of the time spent retreiving errant items that > invariably find the deep bilge no mater how convoluted the travel > path. Almost no other boat has a bilge so deep and they stay afloat. Maybe they stay afloat, but from the viewpoint of a Cal 20 (no bilge at all), water intrusion means everything stored below gets wet, even if the boat doesn't sink. Chris Campbell

Just an idea, but why not epoxy some 1/2 x 1/2 wood around the bilge about an inch below the cabin sole and then lay some galvanized screen cut to the shape of the bilge held in place by some wood screws about every foot? The screen will not interfere with any water needing to head to the bilge, it can easily be removed to work on the pump, and it will keep any object larger than the screen gap from getting into the bilge. Might keep you from having to go fishing for objects so often! Just an idea…. Don Dutton 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" PS Our bilge is only about a foot deep and recovering items is no problem, but I would still have room to mount a screen if I felt the need. On Jan 9, 2014, at 1:02 PM, Brian McNamara wrote: > > I have a CAL 34 with a similar deep bilge and spend a lot of time fishing things out of there too. > I use a variety of methods to recover various items taking temporary residence there. > Depending on the item's shape, weight, texture and value, effective recovery methods include: shop vac with a long hose, duct tape on a long pole, hook on a pole, magnet on a string, and lots of cussing. > Although I often think a shallower bilge would be better for me, I also wonder whether the the boat would be better off with the existing deep bilge to provide more storage capacity allowing more time to respond in case of water intrusion. A shallower bilge would certainly relieve some of the time spent retreiving errant items that invariably find the deep bilge no mater how convoluted the travel path. Almost no other boat has a bilge so deep and they stay afloat. > > > > On Thursday, January 9, 2014 2:37 PM, "du… [at] aim.com" <du… [at] aim.com> wrote: > > On my CAL 2-34 the bilge has a "Platform" within most of the keel, which is about 2ft deep, but then on the trailing end of the keel it literally drops down to the bottom of the 5ft keel for about a 2 ft long section, just about right under the V-Drive. > > Anything that falls in there is gone - mind you I have a wingspan of almost 7ft when I stretch out my arms but I can't reach the bottom of that well - not even while holding foot long needle nose pliers. > > Fishing out the bilge pump, or worse, the block of lead it was mounted on was a nightmare the other day; I also found screws, hose clamps pieces of old hose and Lord knows what else is still down there. > > This leads me to my question - is it advisable to poor something in there that will set/harden and give me a new floor at a level that is more workable? After a thorough cleaning and scrubbing, could I poor a mix made of fine cement, or grout, or anything else that would "set" in there, and follow that with a batch of mixed resin to make the bond with the fiberglass, seal the crete, fill in any voids and make it water tight? > > What am I not thinking of that should stop me from doing this? > > > >

My Cal 40 which has a deeper keel has a pipe to the bottom that attaches via a hose to a diaphragm bilge pump, Jabsco. Not a high volume pump, but the pump since it isn't a centrifugal does not have to be at the bottom of the keel, so the pump and strainer are accessible under the quarterberth. I have a higher capacity pump on top of the lead where it is also reasonably accessible. As mentioned before, some people like having a place for the water to go. I like the idea of a screen catcher. On Thursday, January 9, 2014 4:27 PM, Donald C Dutton <dn… [at] comcast.net> wrote: Just an idea, but why not epoxy some 1/2 x 1/2 wood around the bilge about an inch below the cabin sole and then lay some galvanized screen cut to the shape of the bilge held in place by some wood screws about every foot? The screen will not interfere with any water needing to head to the bilge, it can easily be removed to work on the pump, and it will keep any object larger than the screen gap from getting into the bilge. Might keep you from having to go fishing for objects so often! Just an idea…. Don Dutton 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" PS Our bilge is only about a foot deep and recovering items is no problem, but I would still have room to mount a screen if I felt the need. On Jan 9, 2014, at 1:02 PM, Brian McNamara wrote: > > >I have a CAL 34 with a similar deep bilge and spend a lot of time fishing things out of there too. >I use a variety of methods to recover various items taking temporary residence there. >Depending on the item's shape, weight, texture and value, effective recovery methods include: shop vac with a long hose, duct tape on a long pole, hook on a pole, magnet on a string, and lots of cussing. >Although I often think a shallower bilge would be better for me, I also wonder whether the the boat would be better off with the existing deep bilge to provide more storage capacity allowing more time to respond in case of water intrusion. A shallower bilge would certainly relieve some of the time spent retreiving errant items that invariably find the deep bilge no mater how convoluted the travel path. Almost no other boat has a bilge so deep and they stay afloat. > > > > > > >On Thursday, January 9, 2014 2:37 PM, "du… [at] aim.com" <du… [at] aim.com> wrote: > > >On my CAL 2-34 the bilge has a "Platform" within most of the keel, which is about 2ft deep, but then on the trailing end of the keel it literally drops down to the bottom of the 5ft keel for about a 2 ft long section, just about right under the V-Drive. > >Anything that falls in there is gone - mind you I have a wingspan of almost 7ft when I stretch out my arms but I can't reach the bottom of that well - not even while holding foot long needle nose pliers. > >Fishing out the bilge pump, or worse, the block of lead it was mounted on was a nightmare the other day; I also found screws, hose clamps pieces of old hose and Lord knows what else is still down there. > >This leads me to my question - is it advisable to poor something in there that will set/harden and give me a new floor at a level that is more workable? After a thorough cleaning and scrubbing, could I poor a mix made of fine cement, or grout, or anything else that would "set" in there, and follow that with a batch of mixed resin to make the bond with the fiberglass, seal the crete, fill in any voids and make it water tight? > >What am I not thinking of that should stop me from doing this? > > > >

This leads me to my question - is it advisable to poor something in there that will set/harden and give me a new floor at a level that is more workable? tall bottles of wine so you can reach them. Reggie

I have a Cal 34 and would advise against shortening the bilge depth. Maybe you should put a catch screen or something in place to keep items from falling down there. We often do that when working on the engine to avoid losing precious screws. Yep, we've got an iPhone 5 floating around down in our bilge, but when our shaft fell out while sailing, the deep bilge was a blessing. As for the bilge pump, ours is mounted to a stainless plate attached to a long rod. The top of the top is bolted to the top of the bilge so the entire pump assembly can be removed and pulled up. We have a pretty good system of magnets, shop vacs, and grabbers to get smaller and/or metal items out. However, we still have a paint scraper, a lighter, a pair of sunglasses, the iphone and who knows what else down there....

I got it, put a catch screen with flotation in the deep bilge, that way if you drop into the bilge, a nut, washer, tool, glasses or what ever you need the most....you can simply flood the bilge with salt water and the captured item comes up to you within reach. Then simply pump out the water to reset the floating catch all screen. Mark Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: kb… [at] gmail.com To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 9:16 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] RE: Deep bilge in CAL 2-34 I have a Cal 34 and would advise against shortening the bilge depth. Maybe you should put a catch screen or something in place to keep items from falling down there. We often do that when working on the engine to avoid losing precious screws. Yep, we've got an iPhone 5 floating around down in our bilge, but when our shaft fell out while sailing, the deep bilge was a blessing. As for the bilge pump, ours is mounted to a stainless plate attached to a long rod. The top of the top is bolted to the top of the bilge so the entire pump assembly can be removed and pulled up. We have a pretty good system of magnets, shop vacs, and grabbers to get smaller and/or metal items out. However, we still have a paint scraper, a lighter, a pair of sunglasses, the iphone and who knows what else down there.... Latitude-38 has an article on this and it apparently is a real problem. http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2014-01-08#.Us8IVdJdXh4 Allen On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > Hi guys can you help? our crew member Nick is in > San Pedro on "SUNDOWNER" Cal 36 #3 ...he wants to sail > his boat to Texas (Freeport) via Panama ...edward(helen) > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > *From:* Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > *To:* "co… [at] sre.gob.mx" <co… [at] sre.gob.mx>; Nicholas Halkowski < > nh… [at] gmail.com>; LaDonna Bubak <la… [at] latitude38.com> > *Cc:* blindcopy <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > *Sent:* Thursday, January 9, 2014 11:35 AM > *Subject:* Referred by Mexonline.com > > Hello ...We have a friend traveling from San Pedro to Texas > via Panama canal by boat...we have learned that some > boats are NOT able to leave docks in MEXICO ..If they do not > have Hull I.D. # (All boat made before 1974 do not have > hull numbers in the same places as after 1974 and later) > His boat is a 1967 hull ID #3...but is not ingraved into > the hull as the post 1974 models ..however the cabinets > and drawers are Clearly Marked #3 Cal36....their is > a time problem and he would like leave 15th/Jan/2014 > but dose not want "Boat to be impounded by Mexico" > Please Help call or e-mail my # 650 771 1945 Edward > I'M including link to Lat38 which has their Boat also > impounded (can NOT leave DOCK!) > > www.latitude38.com/lectronic/LectronicLat.lasso<http://app.streamsend.com/c/20292019/11431/hstZwGP/7fo29z0bu0?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latitude38.com%2Flectronic%2FLectronicLat.lasso> > . > check out ....its like hotel calif ...you can never leave > > THANKS for a speedy replay WE remain standing-by > edward stancil PICYA Rep. Peninsula Yacht Club > Redwood City .Calif > Helen Horn & Edward Stancil Members in GOOD STANDING > Sequoia Yacht Club > Redwood City . Calif 94063 > EMAIL<he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > > WE Have a Sister Ship "CALIENTE" Cal36 #60 > > > > >