Chainplates

Here's a picture of my chainplates. It's obvious that some water has had it's way with my chainplate and the surrounding wood. At some point, they will need to be replaced. Should this be a high priority item or can I push them down the list some? When I do go to replace them, stainless or bronze? The originals have a top cover plate above deck. Is that plate a good thing to include? If not, I can simply buy some flat stock and punch the holes through on my mill, otherwise, weld that plate on? Can I bed with butyl tape? While I'm doing the replacement, I don't see a problem in using a halyard as the stay while docked. What all do you think?

Adam, Top of the list! I found my SS chain plates with some minor corrosion. After removal, I was able to break the chain plate in half bare handed. A halyard works as a temporary shroud. I replaced my 5/16 chain plates with 3/8 SS. Michael From: Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>; "sw… [at] gmail.com" <sw… [at] gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:08 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Adam Thorp included below] Here's a picture of my chainplates. It's obvious that some water has had it's way with my chainplate and the surrounding wood. At some point, they will need to be replaced. Should this be a high priority item or can I push them down the list some? When I do go to replace them, stainless or bronze? The originals have a top cover plate above deck. Is that plate a good thing to include? If not, I can simply buy some flat stock and punch the holes through on my mill, otherwise, weld that plate on? Can I bed with butyl tape? While I'm doing the replacement, I don't see a problem in using a halyard as the stay while docked. What all do you think?

Top of the list it goes! Great advice on the mat'l. The backside of the plate currently does *not *have a backing plate. I understand that they are loaded in sheer and that a backing plate wouldn't do all that much but I seem to remember seeing or reading about backing plates for chainplates, somewhere. Your thoughts? The wood on the backside of the bulkhead has been discolored from water ingress but doesn't looked to be rotted and seems sound. It doesn't warrant ripping out the entire bulkhead but while the chainplates are off I wouldn't mind giving it some loving care- though I'm not sure how to go about that. Penetrating epoxy? Oversize and then fill the bolt holes with thickened epoxy and then re drill? How to seal from the deck? I like this butyl tape I've been using for other hardware. Any reason this stuff shouldn't work here? I will make sure to hog out the plywood core and fill with thickened epoxy to protect the core. Tim and Mike, what model boats do you own? Psssst, Robert, check out your chainplates, if they look similar to mine I'll make you a set when I make mine provided you pay for your material. Let me know On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:14 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > ** > > > From Stan Honey**** > > ** ** > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch > SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent > to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a > machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that > crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the > metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from > McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for > comparison.**** > > ** ** > > Metal yield strength > kpsi**** > > ** ** > > C954 Aluminum Bronze 32**** > > SS plate 304 31**** > > ** ** > > The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were > dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth > used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I > wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze > plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum > thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. > It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as > they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates.**** > > ** ** > > I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it > is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, > and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of > the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we > pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core > in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. > Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main > bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West > and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath > the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step > I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before.**** > > ** ** > > We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking > them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they > were in perfect shape.**** > > ** ** > > While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the > hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical > stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly > all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably > from beating in the Potato Patch.**** > > ** ** > > We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates > were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower > chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead > of a babystay.**** > > ** ** > > Happy Holidays,**** > > Stan and Sally**** > > ** ** > > Cheers,**** > > * * > > *[image: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]* > > *Timm Lessley* > > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Adam Thorp > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:09 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Chainplates [1 Attachment]**** > > ** ** > > **** > > *[Attachment(s) <#133b2bef24cb9054_TopText> from Adam Thorp included > below]* **** > > Here's a picture of my chainplates. It's obvious that some water has had > it's way with my chainplate and the surrounding wood. At some point, they > will need to be replaced. Should this be a high priority item or can I push > them down the list some? When I do go to replace them, stainless or bronze? > The originals have a top cover plate above deck. Is that plate a good thing > to include? If not, I can simply buy some flat stock and punch the holes > through on my mill, otherwise, weld that plate on? Can I bed with butyl > tape? While I'm doing the replacement, I don't see a problem in using a > halyard as the stay while docked. What all do you think?**** > > **** > > >

Adam, it will be interesting to see if you have any egg shaping in the bolt holes behind the chain plates. That is when things really get serious. One thought on the backing plate(s) is turn them into much larger sister boards that go out to the hull shape in inward 18" to 2' with vertical cut at inside (depending on space). This is effectively is a sister board on the back of each bulkhead. Epoxy it to the existing bulkhead and filet it to the hull. Then run the chainplate bolts through the sandwich. As far as sealing at the deck, I would not fill the whole space around the chainplate with epoxy (if that is what you were saying). This is a high flex location on the boat, and the epoxy would likely crack after a while. Definitely put in epoxy to seal the deck wood, but there should still be something like 4200 (UV resistant?) sealing the whole that has some flex to it. As far as the deck plate(s) goes, I've never thought about not putting it on. Not sure how serious the purpose is that it serves. It is sure not bolted down well. When you polish it up, it does look pretty (makes it hard to caulk underneath, tho. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates Top of the list it goes! Great advice on the mat'l. The backside of the plate currently does not have a backing plate. I understand that they are loaded in sheer and that a backing plate wouldn't do all that much but I seem to remember seeing or reading about backing plates for chainplates, somewhere. Your thoughts? The wood on the backside of the bulkhead has been discolored from water ingress but doesn't looked to be rotted and seems sound. It doesn't warrant ripping out the entire bulkhead but while the chainplates are off I wouldn't mind giving it some loving care- though I'm not sure how to go about that. Penetrating epoxy? Oversize and then fill the bolt holes with thickened epoxy and then re drill? How to seal from the deck? I like this butyl tape I've been using for other hardware. Any reason this stuff shouldn't work here? I will make sure to hog out the plywood core and fill with thickened epoxy to protect the core. Tim and Mike, what model boats do you own? Psssst, Robert, check out your chainplates, if they look similar to mine I'll make you a set when I make mine provided you pay for your material. Let me know On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:14 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote:

Adam, We have a CAL 2-27, hull 627, built in 1979. I had no issues with the bulkhead, so during reassembly I just put it back together with new SS bolts, fender washers, and lock nuts. I forget what I sealed it with... maybe 5200 (Ugh!). Don't use silicone. You need something more tenacious. While you are at it, take a good look at your forestay stem fitting. I found a small crack in mine during an inspection. Using the halyard trick to support the rig, I removed it, took it to a machine shop, and had it repaired. --Michael- s/v Magic Pompano Beach, FL From: Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates Top of the list it goes! Great advice on the mat'l. The backside of the plate currently does not have a backing plate. I understand that they are loaded in sheer and that a backing plate wouldn't do all that much but I seem to remember seeing or reading about backing plates for chainplates, somewhere. Your thoughts? The wood on the backside of the bulkhead has been discolored from water ingress but doesn't looked to be rotted and seems sound. It doesn't warrant ripping out the entire bulkhead but while the chainplates are off I wouldn't mind giving it some loving care- though I'm not sure how to go about that. Penetrating epoxy? Oversize and then fill the bolt holes with thickened epoxy and then re drill? How to seal from the deck? I like this butyl tape I've been using for other hardware. Any reason this stuff shouldn't work here? I will make sure to hog out the plywood core and fill with thickened epoxy to protect the core. Tim and Mike, what model boats do you own? Psssst, Robert, check out your chainplates, if they look similar to mine I'll make you a set when I make mine provided you pay for your material. Let me know On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:14 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > >From Stan Honey > >We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for comparison. > >Metal yield strength kpsi > >C954 Aluminum Bronze 32 >SS plate 304 31 > >The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates. > >I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before. > >We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they were in perfect shape. > >While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably from beating in the Potato Patch. > >We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead of a babystay. > >Happy Holidays, >Stan and Sally > >Cheers, > >Timm Lessley >503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp >Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:09 AM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates [1 Attachment] > > >[Attachment(s) from Adam Thorp included below] >Here's a picture of my chainplates. It's obvious that some water has had it's way with my chainplate and the surrounding wood. At some point, they will need to be replaced. Should this be a high priority item or can I push them down the list some? When I do go to replace them, stainless or bronze? The originals have a top cover plate above deck. Is that plate a good thing to include? If not, I can simply buy some flat stock and punch the holes through on my mill, otherwise, weld that plate on? Can I bed with butyl tape? While I'm doing the replacement, I don't see a problem in using a halyard as the stay while docked. What all do you think?

Charlie, I will hold my breath when I remove those chainplates- don't want egg shape! Hopefully I can remove them fast enough so that I don't pass out from suffocation. I presume egg shape means that the chain plates have moved and that this somehow induces more flex into the deck? Let's talk about this hypothetical situation a bit as we knock on wood. The bulkheads are already doubled up in this area. Two 1/2" plywood sheets laminated together. I didn't mean to imply that I would seal the chainplate off with epoxy. I meant that I would seal the core with epoxy but maintain a slot where the chainplate exits. The slot will be sealed with butyl tape. Seams to work well: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6202.0.html On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > ** > > > Adam, it will be interesting to see if you have any egg shaping in the > bolt holes behind the chain plates. That is when things really get serious. > **** > > ** ** > > One thought on the backing plate(s) is turn them into much larger sister > boards that go out to the hull shape in inward 18” to 2’ with vertical cut > at inside (depending on space). This is effectively is a sister board on > the back of each bulkhead. Epoxy it to the existing bulkhead and filet it > to the hull. Then run the chainplate bolts through the sandwich.**** > > ** ** > > As far as sealing at the deck, I would not fill the whole space around the > chainplate with epoxy (if that is what you were saying). This is a high > flex location on the boat, and the epoxy would likely crack after a while. > Definitely put in epoxy to seal the deck wood, but there should still be > something like 4200 (UV resistant?) sealing the whole that has some flex to > it. As far as the deck plate(s) goes, I’ve never thought about not putting > it on. Not sure how serious the purpose is that it serves. It is sure not > bolted down well. When you polish it up, it does look pretty (makes it > hard to caulk underneath, tho.**** > > ** ** > > Cheers**** > > Charlie**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Adam Thorp > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:16 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates**** > > ** ** > > > > Top of the list it goes!**** > > ** ** > > Great advice on the mat'l. The backside of the plate currently does *not *have > a backing plate. I understand that they are loaded in sheer and that a > backing plate wouldn't do all that much but I seem to remember seeing or > reading about backing plates for chainplates, somewhere. Your thoughts?*** > * > > ** ** > > The wood on the backside of the bulkhead has been discolored from water > ingress but doesn't looked to be rotted and seems sound. It > doesn't warrant ripping out the entire bulkhead but while the chainplates > are off I wouldn't mind giving it some loving care- though I'm not sure how > to go about that. Penetrating epoxy? Oversize and then fill the bolt holes > with thickened epoxy and then re drill?**** > > ** ** > > How to seal from the deck? I like this butyl tape I've been using for > other hardware. Any reason this stuff shouldn't work here? I will make sure > to hog out the plywood core and fill with thickened epoxy to protect the > core.**** > > ** ** > > Tim and Mike, what model boats do you own?**** > > ** ** > > Psssst, Robert, check out your chainplates, if they look similar to mine > I'll make you a set when I make mine provided you pay for your material. > Let me know**** > > ** ** > > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:14 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote:**** > > **** > > From Stan Honey**** > > **** > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch > SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent > to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a > machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that > crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the > metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from > McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for > comparison.**** > > **** > > Metal yield strength > kpsi**** > > **** > > C954 Aluminum Bronze 32**** > > SS plate 304 31**** > > **** > > The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were > dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth > used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I > wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze > plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum > thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. > It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as > they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates.**** > > **** > > I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it > is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, > and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of > the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we > pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core > in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. > Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main > bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West > and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath > the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step > I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before.**** > > **** > > We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking > them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they > were in perfect shape.**** > > **** > > While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the > hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical > stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly > all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably > from beating in the Potato Patch.**** > > **** > > We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates > were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower > chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead > of a babystay.**** > > **** > > Happy Holidays,**** > > Stan and Sally**** > > **** > > Cheers,**** > > * ***** > > *[image: Description: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]***** > > *Timm Lessley***** > > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > > **** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Adam Thorp > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:09 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Chainplates [1 Attachment]**** > > **** > > **** > > *[Attachment(s) <#133b324cb9b8de71_133b2bef24cb9054_TopText> from Adam > Thorp included below]* **** > > Here's a picture of my chainplates. It's obvious that some water has had > it's way with my chainplate and the surrounding wood. At some point, they > will need to be replaced. Should this be a high priority item or can I push > them down the list some? When I do go to replace them, stainless or bronze? > The originals have a top cover plate above deck. Is that plate a good thing > to include? If not, I can simply buy some flat stock and punch the holes > through on my mill, otherwise, weld that plate on? Can I bed with butyl > tape? While I'm doing the replacement, I don't see a problem in using a > halyard as the stay while docked. What all do you think?**** > > ** ** > > > > > **** > > **** > > >

Charlie was talking "sister boards" maybe the same as my "fishplates". I replaced sections of all my bulkheads by slicing and biscuiting in new sections. Then just to make sure I added fish plates to tie in the splice to the remaining good bulkhead. [cid:image002.jpg@01CCA531.28624090] Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:08 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates Adam, it will be interesting to see if you have any egg shaping in the bolt holes behind the chain plates. That is when things really get serious. One thought on the backing plate(s) is turn them into much larger sister boards that go out to the hull shape in inward 18" to 2' with vertical cut at inside (depending on space). This is effectively is a sister board on the back of each bulkhead. Epoxy it to the existing bulkhead and filet it to the hull. Then run the chainplate bolts through the sandwich. As far as sealing at the deck, I would not fill the whole space around the chainplate with epoxy (if that is what you were saying). This is a high flex location on the boat, and the epoxy would likely crack after a while. Definitely put in epoxy to seal the deck wood, but there should still be something like 4200 (UV resistant?) sealing the whole that has some flex to it. As far as the deck plate(s) goes, I've never thought about not putting it on. Not sure how serious the purpose is that it serves. It is sure not bolted down well. When you polish it up, it does look pretty (makes it hard to caulk underneath, tho. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates Top of the list it goes! Great advice on the mat'l. The backside of the plate currently does not have a backing plate. I understand that they are loaded in sheer and that a backing plate wouldn't do all that much but I seem to remember seeing or reading about backing plates for chainplates, somewhere. Your thoughts? The wood on the backside of the bulkhead has been discolored from water ingress but doesn't looked to be rotted and seems sound. It doesn't warrant ripping out the entire bulkhead but while the chainplates are off I wouldn't mind giving it some loving care- though I'm not sure how to go about that. Penetrating epoxy? Oversize and then fill the bolt holes with thickened epoxy and then re drill? How to seal from the deck? I like this butyl tape I've been using for other hardware. Any reason this stuff shouldn't work here? I will make sure to hog out the plywood core and fill with thickened epoxy to protect the core. Tim and Mike, what model boats do you own? Psssst, Robert, check out your chainplates, if they look similar to mine I'll make you a set when I make mine provided you pay for your material. Let me know On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:14 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote:

My bulkhead looks similar to that but I guess it's the details that count. Surely, your chainplate isn't in between your 'fishplate' and bulkhead? It is on the opposite side of the bulkhead, not pictured, right? (salmon anyone?) I have a 1/2 inch bulkhead that runs the beam of the boat. In the corners of the bulkhead where the chainplates are, there is a second 1/2 section of plywood laminated to the bulkhead. The chainplate is on the outside of this second plywood section and is thru bolted through both 1/2 inch plywood members. On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:59 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: > ** > > > Charlie was talking “sister boards” maybe the same as my “fishplates”.*** > * > > ** ** > > I replaced sections of all my bulkheads by slicing and biscuiting in new > sections. **** > > ** ** > > Then just to make sure I added fish plates to tie in the splice to the > remaining good bulkhead.**** > > ** ** > > **** > > ** ** > > Cheers,**** > > * * > > *[image: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]* > > *Timm Lessley* > > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:08 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* RE: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates**** > > ** ** > > **** > > Adam, it will be interesting to see if you have any egg shaping in the > bolt holes behind the chain plates. That is when things really get serious. > **** > > **** > > One thought on the backing plate(s) is turn them into much larger sister > boards that go out to the hull shape in inward 18” to 2’ with vertical cut > at inside (depending on space). This is effectively is a sister board on > the back of each bulkhead. Epoxy it to the existing bulkhead and filet it > to the hull. Then run the chainplate bolts through the sandwich.**** > > **** > > As far as sealing at the deck, I would not fill the whole space around the > chainplate with epoxy (if that is what you were saying). This is a high > flex location on the boat, and the epoxy would likely crack after a while. > Definitely put in epoxy to seal the deck wood, but there should still be > something like 4200 (UV resistant?) sealing the whole that has some flex to > it. As far as the deck plate(s) goes, I’ve never thought about not putting > it on. Not sure how serious the purpose is that it serves. It is sure not > bolted down well. When you polish it up, it does look pretty (makes it > hard to caulk underneath, tho.**** > > **** > > Cheers**** > > Charlie**** > > **** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Adam Thorp > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:16 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates**** > > **** > > > > Top of the list it goes!**** > > **** > > Great advice on the mat'l. The backside of the plate currently does *not *have > a backing plate. I understand that they are loaded in sheer and that a > backing plate wouldn't do all that much but I seem to remember seeing or > reading about backing plates for chainplates, somewhere. Your thoughts?*** > * > > **** > > The wood on the backside of the bulkhead has been discolored from water > ingress but doesn't looked to be rotted and seems sound. It > doesn't warrant ripping out the entire bulkhead but while the chainplates > are off I wouldn't mind giving it some loving care- though I'm not sure how > to go about that. Penetrating epoxy? Oversize and then fill the bolt holes > with thickened epoxy and then re drill?**** > > **** > > How to seal from the deck? I like this butyl tape I've been using for > other hardware. Any reason this stuff shouldn't work here? I will make sure > to hog out the plywood core and fill with thickened epoxy to protect the > core.**** > > **** > > Tim and Mike, what model boats do you own?**** > > **** > > Psssst, Robert, check out your chainplates, if they look similar to mine > I'll make you a set when I make mine provided you pay for your material. > Let me know**** > > **** > > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:14 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote:**** > > **** > > From Stan Honey**** > > **** > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch > SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent > to the plywood core in the deck. It didn’t look very bad to me but a > machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. He said that > crevice corrosion can be like termite damage and be worse inside the > metal. I made the new chainplates out of C954 Bronze purchased from > McMaster Carr. I’ve put the numbers for C954 below with 304 ss plate for > comparison.**** > > **** > > Metal yield strength > kpsi**** > > **** > > C954 Aluminum Bronze 32**** > > SS plate 304 31**** > > **** > > The chainplates used to be 0.25 inch SS plate, which interestingly were > dimensioned exactly as described in Skene’s. It sure looks like Lapworth > used Skene’s. Now the chainplates are 0.33 inch C954 Bronze plate. I > wasn’t really intending to make them thicker. I ordered 0.25 inch bronze > plate, but the way bronze plates are made they just guarantee a minimum > thickness and the plate that I received from McMaster was 0.33 inch thick. > It seemed like one of the dumbest places to save weight, so we left them as > they came and we now we have 0.33 inch thick chainplates.**** > > **** > > I used C954 in part because it was easy to find plate (McMaster Carr), it > is much more resistant to crevice corrosion than SS, it is plenty strong, > and it wasn’t that much more expensive than SS. I understand that some of > the Cal 40’s may have had bronze chainplates to begin with. After we > pulled the old SS chainplates out, we routed out the exposed plywood core > in the deck and replaced it with West Epoxy slurry, for about ½ inch. > Interestingly, the plywood core looked ok. Similarly the wood main > bulkhead was fine and hadn’t gone soft with water, but we soaked it in West > and put a layer of XMAT with West on it under the chainplate and underneath > the backing plate on the opposite side. The ss tie-rods to the mast step > I-beam were reinstalled exactly as they were before.**** > > **** > > We reused the existing bronze bolts. We cleaned their threads by soaking > them in kerosene and then running them through a die. Once cleaned up they > were in perfect shape.**** > > **** > > While we had things pulled apart, we re-glassed the main bulkhead to the > hull with several layers of XMAT and West, and reglassed the vertical > stringers behind the wood trim along the hull with XMAT and West. Nearly > all of our vertical stringers had broken loose through the years, probably > from beating in the Potato Patch.**** > > **** > > We had no problem pulling the plates. Once the bolts were out the plates > were loose and easy to pull out. We haven’t yet replaced the forward lower > chainplates, but probably will if we decide to continue to use them instead > of a babystay.**** > > **** > > Happy Holidays,**** > > Stan and Sally**** > > **** > > Cheers,**** > > * ***** > > *[image: Description: cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70]***** > > *Timm Lessley***** > > 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls**** > > **** > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Adam Thorp > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:09 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; sw… [at] gmail.com > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Chainplates [1 Attachment]**** > > **** > > **** > > *[Attachment(s) <#133b354393ebab77_133b2bef24cb9054_TopText> from Adam > Thorp included below]* **** > > Here's a picture of my chainplates. It's obvious that some water has had > it's way with my chainplate and the surrounding wood. At some point, they > will need to be replaced. Should this be a high priority item or can I push > them down the list some? When I do go to replace them, stainless or bronze? > The originals have a top cover plate above deck. Is that plate a good thing > to include? If not, I can simply buy some flat stock and punch the holes > through on my mill, otherwise, weld that plate on? Can I bed with butyl > tape? While I'm doing the replacement, I don't see a problem in using a > halyard as the stay while docked. What all do you think?**** > > **** > > > > > > **** > > **** > > >

Adam, the chainplate is not attached to the deck at all, so it wouldn't induce much more deck flex till it pulls right through the goldang deck. The egg-shaping means that the bulkhead wood where the chainplate is attached is rotting (or that the bolts were quite loose - which can also come from weakening wood that has compressed). Another note on leakage. If there is a lateral beam over the main bulkhead (as some CALs have), leakage down the chainplate might not mean leakage AT the chainplate. Had one where I kept caulking and caulking the chainplate at the deck, and still got drips. Turns out there was a leak from an old hole in the deck over the beam farther inboard. The water dripped onto the interior beam and then drooled on out to the chainplate where it manifested itself. (I hope that "manifest" is not a dirty word.) Timm, speaking of dirty words, what is the etymology of "fishplate". Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:57 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates Charlie, I will hold my breath when I remove those chainplates- don't want egg shape! Hopefully I can remove them fast enough so that I don't pass out from suffocation. I presume egg shape means that the chain plates have moved and that this somehow induces more flex into the deck? Let's talk about this hypothetical situation a bit as we knock on wood. The bulkheads are already doubled up in this area. Two 1/2" plywood sheets laminated together. I didn't mean to imply that I would seal the chainplate off with epoxy. I meant that I would seal the core with epoxy but maintain a slot where the chainplate exits. The slot will be sealed with butyl tape. Seams to work well: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6202.0.html On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com<mailto:hu… [at] bah.com>> wrote: Adam, it will be interesting to see if you have any egg shaping in the bolt holes behind the chain plates. That is when things really get serious. One thought on the backing plate(s) is turn them into much larger sister boards that go out to the hull shape in inward 18" to 2' with vertical cut at inside (depending on space). This is effectively is a sister board on the back of each bulkhead. Epoxy it to the existing bulkhead and filet it to the hull. Then run the chainplate bolts through the sandwich. As far as sealing at the deck, I would not fill the whole space around the chainplate with epoxy (if that is what you were saying). This is a high flex location on the boat, and the epoxy would likely crack after a while. Definitely put in epoxy to seal the deck wood, but there should still be something like 4200 (UV resistant?) sealing the whole that has some flex to it. As far as the deck plate(s) goes, I've never thought about not putting it on. Not sure how serious the purpose is that it serves. It is sure not bolted down well. When you polish it up, it does look pretty (makes it hard to caulk underneath, tho. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>; sw… [at] gmail.com<mailto:sw… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates Top of the list it goes! Great advice on the mat'l. The backside of the plate currently does not have a backing plate. I understand that they are loaded in sheer and that a backing plate wouldn't do all that much but I seem to remember seeing or reading about backing plates for chainplates, somewhere. Your thoughts? The wood on the backside of the bulkhead has been discolored from water ingress but doesn't looked to be rotted and seems sound. It doesn't warrant ripping out the entire bulkhead but while the chainplates are off I wouldn't mind giving it some loving care- though I'm not sure how to go about that. Penetrating epoxy? Oversize and then fill the bolt holes with thickened epoxy and then re drill? How to seal from the deck? I like this butyl tape I've been using for other hardware. Any reason this stuff shouldn't work here? I will make sure to hog out the plywood core and fill with thickened epoxy to protect the core. Tim and Mike, what model boats do you own? Psssst, Robert, check out your chainplates, if they look similar to mine I'll make you a set when I make mine provided you pay for your material. Let me know On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:14 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote:

Fish Plates - etymology - not to be confused with a Flitch Plate - a compound beam used in wood construction, made up of a steel<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel> plate sandwiched between two wood<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood> beams, the three layers being held together with bolts<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw>.

Fish plate connect two pieces, and is as you stated. Flitch plate sandwiches between two pieces, I have fish plated the two pieces of bulkhead together. The chain plate is on the opposite side of the bulkhead from the fish plate. Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:17 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates My bulkhead looks similar to that but I guess it's the details that count. Surely, your chainplate isn't in between your 'fishplate' and bulkhead? It is on the opposite side of the bulkhead, not pictured, right? (salmon anyone?) I have a 1/2 inch bulkhead that runs the beam of the boat. In the corners of the bulkhead where the chainplates are, there is a second 1/2 section of plywood laminated to the bulkhead. The chainplate is on the outside of this second plywood section and is thru bolted through both 1/2 inch plywood members. On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:59 PM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote: Charlie was talking "sister boards" maybe the same as my "fishplates". I replaced sections of all my bulkheads by slicing and biscuiting in new sections. Then just to make sure I added fish plates to tie in the splice to the remaining good bulkhead. [cid:image002.jpg@01CCA53A.19461010] Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019<tel:503.863.4019> Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:08 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates Adam, it will be interesting to see if you have any egg shaping in the bolt holes behind the chain plates. That is when things really get serious. One thought on the backing plate(s) is turn them into much larger sister boards that go out to the hull shape in inward 18" to 2' with vertical cut at inside (depending on space). This is effectively is a sister board on the back of each bulkhead. Epoxy it to the existing bulkhead and filet it to the hull. Then run the chainplate bolts through the sandwich. As far as sealing at the deck, I would not fill the whole space around the chainplate with epoxy (if that is what you were saying). This is a high flex location on the boat, and the epoxy would likely crack after a while. Definitely put in epoxy to seal the deck wood, but there should still be something like 4200 (UV resistant?) sealing the whole that has some flex to it. As far as the deck plate(s) goes, I've never thought about not putting it on. Not sure how serious the purpose is that it serves. It is sure not bolted down well. When you polish it up, it does look pretty (makes it hard to caulk underneath, tho. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Adam Thorp Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>; sw… [at] gmail.com<mailto:sw… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates Top of the list it goes! Great advice on the mat'l. The backside of the plate currently does not have a backing plate. I understand that they are loaded in sheer and that a backing plate wouldn't do all that much but I seem to remember seeing or reading about backing plates for chainplates, somewhere. Your thoughts? The wood on the backside of the bulkhead has been discolored from water ingress but doesn't looked to be rotted and seems sound. It doesn't warrant ripping out the entire bulkhead but while the chainplates are off I wouldn't mind giving it some loving care- though I'm not sure how to go about that. Penetrating epoxy? Oversize and then fill the bolt holes with thickened epoxy and then re drill? How to seal from the deck? I like this butyl tape I've been using for other hardware. Any reason this stuff shouldn't work here? I will make sure to hog out the plywood core and fill with thickened epoxy to protect the core. Tim and Mike, what model boats do you own? Psssst, Robert, check out your chainplates, if they look similar to mine I'll make you a set when I make mine provided you pay for your material. Let me know On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:14 AM, <ti… [at] ch2m.com<mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com>> wrote:

At the end of the season I re-bedded my chainplates. Before I did the job I investigated the efficacy of Butyl Tape as a sealant. It seems to have some great properties like flexibility, ease of use, and doesn't contaminate gelcoat like silicone. However, it has a glaring deficiency from my perspective. Butyl Tape does not stand up to anything petroleum-based. I keep my boat on the Western Long Island Sound about a mile from NYC. Out here even the air is petroleum based plus there is the constant parade of planes landing at Laguardia Airport. So I decided against it. The modern equivalent to Butyl Tape is Polysulfide aka BoatLife Life Caulk. It has similar properties with no downside and can be used above and below the waterline. See more at: http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/35.htm From: Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>; "sw… [at] gmail.com" <sw… [at] gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:08 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Chainplates [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Adam Thorp included below] Here's a picture of my chainplates. It's obvious that some water has had it's way with my chainplate and the surrounding wood. At some point, they will need to be replaced. Should this be a high priority item or can I push them down the list some? When I do go to replace them, stainless or bronze? The originals have a top cover plate above deck. Is that plate a good thing to include? If not, I can simply buy some flat stock and punch the holes through on my mill, otherwise, weld that plate on? Can I bed with butyl tape? While I'm doing the replacement, I don't see a problem in using a halyard as the stay while docked. What all do you think?

Stan: How did you address the potential for electrolysis when using bronze chain plates and SS fittings on deck? Danny --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > From Stan Honey > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn't look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. <SNIP>

(Stan is not on this list, to my knowledge - I posted his comments to me from a few years ago on the subject) As for my opinion, no consideration is given. All correctly configured boats are bonded and have an anode (zinc) Even stock boats have multiple metallic connections Stainless chainplate to aluminum mast to copper bonding wires to cast iron engine to stainless propeller shaft to bronze propeller. Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 8:13 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Chainplates Stan: How did you address the potential for electrolysis when using bronze chain plates and SS fittings on deck? Danny --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > From Stan Honey > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn't look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. <SNIP>

... I should have also mentioned that I am a Lanocote junkie... and apply that stuff on metal connections, including electrical connections. [Lanocote, fastener lubricant, corrosion inhibitor]<javascript:%20openBigImg();> LanoCote is a non-toxic corrosion inhibitor that displaces water, absorbs corrosion, forms a moisture barrier, penetrates and has high lubricity above ground, underground and underwater. Its soft, non drying barrier, is non-conductive, providing protection for electrical contacts and panels. Prevents salt water penetration, thread seizure and protects batteries. [Forespar-Lanocote] Lanocote Tech Tip LANOCOTE(r) SUPREME MARINE CORROSION PROTECTION CHOICE OF MARINE PROFESSIONALS How does LanoCote(r) work? LanoCote(r) works on five basic principals: * Displaces water * Absorbs corrosion * Forms moisture barrier * Penetrates * Has high lubricity LanoCote(r) prevents dissimilar metal galvanization LanoCote(r) is extremely effective in preventing and stopping corrosion on all types of metals under all environmental conditions. Formulated to withstand saltwater marine conditions, LanoCote(r) is particularly useful in preventing thread seizure due to all types of corrosion on boats and machinery. Applied during assembly, LanoCote(r) will greatly assist in easy dismantling years later. An example would be anchor shackles, which are regularly immersed in salt water. LanoCote(r) also combats galvanization where dissimilar metals are fastened together, such as stainless steel fittings and fasteners on aluminum masts. Use on: * Turnbuckles-keeps them from seizing * Anchor shackles-stops threads from seizing * Stainless fasteners into aluminum mast and booms-stops corrosion and metal pitting * Fasteners into wind-shield frames-stops corrosion * Metal hinges-stops corrosion and squeaking * Outboard motor lower unit hinges, locks and mechanisms * Any metallic item that is susceptible to corrosion Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 8:13 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Chainplates Stan: How did you address the potential for electrolysis when using bronze chain plates and SS fittings on deck? Danny --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > From Stan Honey > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn't look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. <SNIP>

I second that! Lanocote may be "old School", but nothing I have found is better. Michael From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Chainplates - Lanocote … I should have also mentioned that I am a Lanocote junkie… and apply that stuff on metal connections, including electrical connections. LanoCote is a non-toxic corrosion inhibitor that displaces water, absorbs corrosion, forms a moisture barrier, penetrates and has high lubricity above ground, underground and underwater. Its soft, non drying barrier, is non-conductive, providing protection for electrical contacts and panels. Prevents salt water penetration, thread seizure and protects batteries. Lanocote Tech Tip LANOCOTE® SUPREME MARINE CORROSION PROTECTION CHOICE OF MARINE PROFESSIONALS How does LanoCote® work? LanoCote®works on five basic principals: * Displaces water * Absorbs corrosion * Forms moisture barrier * Penetrates * Has high lubricity LanoCote® prevents dissimilar metal galvanization LanoCote®is extremely effective in preventing and stopping corrosion on all types of metals under all environmental conditions. Formulated to withstand saltwater marine conditions, LanoCote® is particularly useful in preventing thread seizure due to all types of corrosion on boats and machinery. Applied during assembly, LanoCote® will greatly assist in easy dismantling years later. An example would be anchor shackles, which are regularly immersed in salt water. LanoCote® also combats galvanization where dissimilar metals are fastened together, such as stainless steel fittings and fasteners on aluminum masts. Use on: * Turnbuckles-keeps them from seizing * Anchor shackles-stops threads from seizing * Stainless fasteners into aluminum mast and booms-stops corrosion and metal pitting * Fasteners into wind-shield frames-stops corrosion * Metal hinges-stops corrosion and squeaking * Outboard motor lower unit hinges, locks and mechanisms * Any metallic item that is susceptible to corrosion Cheers, Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 8:13 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Chainplates Stan: How did you address the potential for electrolysis when using bronze chain plates and SS fittings on deck? Danny --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > From Stan Honey > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn't look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. <SNIP>

Capt dEmO, I'm a silicon grease junkie, probably because I have it aboard my work truck. I figure if it can hang on to bearings and plastic seals inside a valve exposed to 60GPM of salty chlorinated pool water, it will probably stay put on electrical connections and sliders on the boat. I also use silicon spray on my hanks, etc. but it has to be reapplied periodically as those parts get stucky. (like sticky except, it's more like stuck). Also note that when you buy weather proof wire ties, there is silicon grease inside of them, ditto for 3M wire snap/button weather proof wire connectors. My other favorite application is Teflon tape on bolt threads. It works great on my outboard scissor type lift mount. It works better than a lock washer, particularly because if you tighten the bolts to much the mount won't swivel, and it prevents the nuts from turning a vibrating lose. Which reminds me I've got to put it on the tiller swivel bolt, on the up and down bearing, I'm tired of re tightening it every other time I go sailing. Jerry (Primordial Cal 24 Mk I Shpritz, #71 home built kit) From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 8:12 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Chainplates - Lanocote … I should have also mentioned that I am a Lanocote junkie… and apply that stuff on metal connections, including electrical connections. LanoCote is a non-toxic corrosion inhibitor that displaces water, absorbs corrosion, forms a moisture barrier, penetrates and has high lubricity above ground, underground and underwater. Its soft, non drying barrier, is non-conductive, providing protection for electrical contacts and panels. Prevents salt water penetration, thread seizure and protects batteries. Lanocote Tech Tip LANOCOTE® SUPREME MARINE CORROSION PROTECTION CHOICE OF MARINE PROFESSIONALS How does LanoCote® work? LanoCote®works on five basic principals: * Displaces water * Absorbs corrosion * Forms moisture barrier * Penetrates * Has high lubricity LanoCote® prevents dissimilar metal galvanization LanoCote®is extremely effective in preventing and stopping corrosion on all types of metals under all environmental conditions. Formulated to withstand saltwater marine conditions, LanoCote® is particularly useful in preventing thread seizure due to all types of corrosion on boats and machinery. Applied during assembly, LanoCote® will greatly assist in easy dismantling years later. An example would be anchor shackles, which are regularly immersed in salt water. LanoCote® also combats galvanization where dissimilar metals are fastened together, such as stainless steel fittings and fasteners on aluminum masts. Use on: * Turnbuckles-keeps them from seizing * Anchor shackles-stops threads from seizing * Stainless fasteners into aluminum mast and booms-stops corrosion and metal pitting * Fasteners into wind-shield frames-stops corrosion * Metal hinges-stops corrosion and squeaking * Outboard motor lower unit hinges, locks and mechanisms * Any metallic item that is susceptible to corrosion Cheers, Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 8:13 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Chainplates Stan: How did you address the potential for electrolysis when using bronze chain plates and SS fittings on deck? Danny --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > From Stan Honey > > We did replace the chainplates on Illusion. The old ones were 0.25 inch SS, but when we removed them we found signs of crevice corrosion adjacent to the plywood core in the deck. It didn't look very bad to me but a machinist said to not even consider putting them back in. <SNIP>

Hi my name is dEmO, I am a Lanocote grease junkie, it has been 3 months since I last greased. I too like the silly cone grease on some of my delicate instrument connections, it provides good protection, and allows easy disassembly. The silly cone grease is supplied stock with Nexus Instruments. Cheers, [cid:image005.png@01CBF93B.85770E70] Timm Lessley 503.863.4019 Cell to cell calls From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:32 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Chainplates - Lanocote Capt dEmO, I'm a silicon grease junkie, probably because I have it aboard my work truck. I figure if it can hang on to bearings and plastic seals inside a valve exposed to 60GPM of salty chlorinated pool water, it will probably stay put on electrical connections and sliders on the boat. I also use silicon spray on my hanks, etc. but it has to be reapplied periodically as those parts get stucky. (like sticky except, it's more like stuck). Also note that when you buy weather proof wire ties, there is silicon grease inside of them, ditto for 3M wire snap/button weather proof wire connectors. My other favorite application is Teflon tape on bolt threads. It works great on my outboard scissor type lift mount. It works better than a lock washer, particularly because if you tighten the bolts to much the mount won't swivel, and it prevents the nuts from turning a vibrating lose. Which reminds me I've got to put it on the tiller swivel bolt, on the up and down bearing, I'm tired of re tightening it every other time I go sailing. Jerry (Primordial Cal 24 Mk I Shpritz, #71 home built kit)

Does anybody know where I can get replacement gaskets for the ports on a Cal 25? I have a couple of cracked and cloudy laminated glass windows and I'm planning on replacing them. The aluminum frames are in good shape and the cost of new laminated glass is less than one replacement port-tinted even! The glass company wasn't sure and I'm going to disassemble and reassemble them myself. Putting a new deck and main beam in and while the ports are out the job might just as well get done. Thanks for any info! Kevin Swart Cal 25 #1285 Soon to be renamed

I replaced port gaskets. Do you need to find a source for them? From: Kevin Swart <kg… [at] earthlink.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:52 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Port Gaskets

I think I do. Mine are pretty tired and I'm planning on replacing the glass So I'd like new gaskets as well. Thanks! Kevin On 5/25/2012 10:49 AM, Brian McNamara wrote: > I replaced port gaskets. Do you need to find a source for them? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Kevin Swart <kg… [at] earthlink.net> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:52 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] Port Gaskets > > > >

reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the gaskets if you have one please. Thanks, John

John, old-old model or newer. What year is the boat? Best reference for starters is: Mark Heacox Mark Plastics 369 E Harrison St # G Corona, CA 92879 (951) 735-7705 Hope this helps Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jreissenweber Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:00 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Re: Port Gaskets reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the gaskets if you have one please. Thanks, John ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Charlie: 1967 hull 181 Gave him a call but must have missed him as it's just past 5PM ... Thanks, John --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > John, old-old model or newer. What year is the boat? > > Best reference for starters is: > > Mark Heacox > Mark Plastics > 369 E Harrison St # G > Corona, CA 92879 > (951) 735-7705 > > Hope this helps > Cheers > Charlie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jreissenweber > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:00 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Re: Port Gaskets > > > reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the gaskets if you have one please. > > Thanks, John > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

John, Let us know how it goes. I have a 1964 Cal 28 with tired port gaskets as well. Thanks, Adam On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 5:13 PM, jreissenweber <jr… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > ** > > > Charlie: > > 1967 hull 181 > > Gave him a call but must have missed him as it's just past 5PM ... > > Thanks, > > John > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" > <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > > > John, old-old model or newer. What year is the boat? > > > > Best reference for starters is: > > > > Mark Heacox > > Mark Plastics > > 369 E Harrison St # G > > Corona, CA 92879 > > (951) 735-7705 > > > > Hope this helps > > Cheers > > Charlie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jreissenweber > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:00 AM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Re: Port Gaskets > > > > > > reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the > gaskets if you have one please. > > > > Thanks, John > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Sorry I didn't check my mail sooner. The stuff is about 2 hours from me until Monday so I can't get part numbers. I did go to a local glass place and they cut new laminated glass for me and supplied me with new seals. I went with glass because the last ones lasted 40 years and I'd like these to do the same. Plexiglass and lexan won't do that. My glass is 3/16 thick and they had the gasket material right in stock. I'll call them for manufacturer and part #. We had to hunt a bit for the fuzzy stuff that lines the slider windows but it was in stock as well. I can get pics as well next week. Kevin cal 25 #1285 soon to be */Panache/* On 6/29/2012 8:42 PM, Adam Thorp wrote: > > John, > > > Let us know how it goes. I have a 1964 Cal 28 with tired port gaskets > as well. > > Thanks, > Adam > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 5:13 PM, jreissenweber > <jr… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:jr… [at] yahoo.com>> wrote: > > Charlie: > > 1967 hull 181 > > Gave him a call but must have missed him as it's just past 5PM ... > > Thanks, > > John > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" > <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > > > John, old-old model or newer. What year is the boat? > > > > Best reference for starters is: > > > > Mark Heacox > > Mark Plastics > > 369 E Harrison St # G > > Corona, CA 92879 > > (951) 735-7705 <tel:%28951%29%20735-7705> > > > > Hope this helps > > Cheers > > Charlie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of jreissenweber > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:00 AM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Re: Port Gaskets > > > > > > reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for > the gaskets if you have one please. > > > > Thanks, John > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Sorry for the delay in reply. I spoke to the company today and they have no idea where or how long ago they got the stuff. But they do have a good supply and are willing to ship. I have no financial connection. Kevin Binghamton Plate Glass 607 723 8293 http://www.binghamtonplateglass.com/ On 6/29/2012 9:59 AM, jreissenweber wrote: > > > reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the > gaskets if you have one please. > > Thanks, John > >

Kevin, Do you have part numbers for anything you ordered, or maybe an order number that I can give to them as a reference? Any tips on rebuilding the windows? Butyl tape satisfactory for sealing port flange to hull? Thanks, Adam On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Kevin Swart <kg… [at] earthlink.net> wrote: > ** > > > Sorry for the delay in reply. I spoke to the company today and they have > no idea where or how long ago they got the stuff. But they do have a good > supply and are willing to ship. > > I have no financial connection. > > Kevin > > Binghamton Plate Glass > 607 723 8293 > > http://www.binghamtonplateglass.com/ > > > > > On 6/29/2012 9:59 AM, jreissenweber wrote: > > > > > reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the > gaskets if you have one please. > > Thanks, John > > > >

An alternative method that has served well on several boats that I know is the following. Make the boat look a bit more modern as well. http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/windows.html /ch On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > Kevin, > > Do you have part numbers for anything you ordered, or maybe an order > number that I can give to them as a reference? > > Any tips on rebuilding the windows? Butyl tape satisfactory for sealing > port flange to hull? > > Thanks, > Adam > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Kevin Swart <kg… [at] earthlink.net>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Sorry for the delay in reply. I spoke to the company today and they have >> no idea where or how long ago they got the stuff. But they do have a good >> supply and are willing to ship. >> >> I have no financial connection. >> >> Kevin >> >> Binghamton Plate Glass >> 607 723 8293 >> >> http://www.binghamtonplateglass.com/ >> >> >> >> >> On 6/29/2012 9:59 AM, jreissenweber wrote: >> >> >> >> >> reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the >> gaskets if you have one please. >> >> Thanks, John >> >> >> > > > > -- /ch

I have seen this approach recommended before. Is it considered seaworthy for an offshore boat? On Aug 7, 2012, at 8:10 PM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > An alternative method that has served well on several boats that I know is the following. Make the boat look a bit more modern as well. > > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/windows.html > > /ch > > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > Kevin, > > Do you have part numbers for anything you ordered, or maybe an order number that I can give to them as a reference? > > Any tips on rebuilding the windows? Butyl tape satisfactory for sealing port flange to hull? > > Thanks, > Adam > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Kevin Swart <kg… [at] earthlink.net> wrote: > > Sorry for the delay in reply. I spoke to the company today and they have no idea where or how long ago they got the stuff. But they do have a good supply and are willing to ship. > > I have no financial connection. > > Kevin > > Binghamton Plate Glass > 607 723 8293 > > http://www.binghamtonplateglass.com/ > > > > > > On 6/29/2012 9:59 AM, jreissenweber wrote: >> >> >> reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the gaskets if you have one please. >> >> Thanks, John >> > > > > > > > > -- > /ch > > >

I dont see an issue for the following reasons: 1. The pressure on the port is on the outside, so the breakpoint of the plastic will be a function of the overlap with the hull, the break characteristics of the plastic used. So leverage and inherent brittleness. Go thicker on the plastic, and go thicker on the overlap if desired. 2. Its simpler to make storm windows that can be placed on the outside and inside of the port as the skin is exposed prior too making interior trim piece. 3. Apparently used in modern aircraft which take a lot of pressure differentials. So if you are concerned about a seaworthy port, I would simply go thicker, then take her out on a good sea trial under some severe conditions that you are comfortable with. Do one first and see how it performs. If satisfied then you have a practical solution. Personally I dont like glass other then the very expensive stuff as the cost is in the frame work to hold the plate ridig. Glass is a liquid by nature even at ambient temps so the higher end stuff in rescue boats is a high tech product that is very expensive designed to be less fluid basically. If I would go glass its the only route I would take but its very expensive. Wrt to plastic ports regardless of type again the majority of costs and failure is with the frame system. So in the final analysis, I guess its what you are comfortable based on discussion with others, and independent research. The lad who wrote this article has been cruising for years. I know a couple of boats that have used this method as coastal and day sailors and no issues now in year three. Best of luck. On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Adam Thorp <th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > I have seen this approach recommended before. Is it considered seaworthy > for an offshore boat? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 7, 2012, at 8:10 PM, chris123 <ch… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > > > An alternative method that has served well on several boats that I know is > the following. Make the boat look a bit more modern as well. > > <http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/windows.html> > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/windows.html > > /ch > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Adam Thorp < <th… [at] gmail.com> > th… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Kevin, >> >> Do you have part numbers for anything you ordered, or maybe an order >> number that I can give to them as a reference? >> >> Any tips on rebuilding the windows? Butyl tape satisfactory for sealing >> port flange to hull? >> >> Thanks, >> Adam >> >> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Kevin Swart < <kg… [at] earthlink.net> >> kg… [at] earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> >>> Sorry for the delay in reply. I spoke to the company today and they >>> have no idea where or how long ago they got the stuff. But they do have a >>> good supply and are willing to ship. >>> >>> I have no financial connection. >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> Binghamton Plate Glass >>> 607 723 8293 >>> >>> <http://www.binghamtonplateglass.com/> >>> http://www.binghamtonplateglass.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/29/2012 9:59 AM, jreissenweber wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> reworking all the ports on my Cal 28 and yes I need a source for the >>> gaskets if you have one please. >>> >>> Thanks, John >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > /ch > > > > > > -- /ch

I pulled all 4 lower shroud chainplates today. They look OK so far. I have not cleaned them up yet nor dye tested. Anyone know which type stainless was used in our old Cal sailboats? I suspect 304, but wouldn't 316 be better? Mine are probably ok, but one has a little bend and they are 45 years old, so while out, why not replace them? As my bride says, we don't want to have to do this again! sources of bar stock? Oh, and a little surprise. PO replaced the mounting bolts. All nice new 1/4 inch. But, he was substituting the 1/4 inch for larger bolts, at least 5/16. What surprises lay in store! Reggie Living the cruisers life, repairing sailboats in exotic Green Cove Springs, FL.

Just replaced the chainplates on my 1979 39. A local machine shop did the job for $250 each, including new fasteners, everything in 316. The originals probably were 304; the shop quoted me in 304 as well; about 20% cheaper as I recall. Everyone advised going with new 316 given the age. Bob Andrew Cal 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT On Feb 1, 2014 6:36 PM, "r good" <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I pulled all 4 lower shroud chainplates today. They look OK so far. I > have not cleaned them up yet nor dye tested. > > Anyone know which type stainless was used in our old Cal sailboats? I > suspect 304, but wouldn't 316 be better? Mine are probably ok, but one has > a little bend and they are 45 years old, so while out, why not replace > them? As my bride says, we don't want to have to do this again! sources > of bar stock? > > Oh, and a little surprise. PO replaced the mounting bolts. All nice new > 1/4 inch. But, he was substituting the 1/4 inch for larger bolts, at least > 5/16. What surprises lay in store! > > Reggie > Living the cruisers life, repairing sailboats in exotic Green Cove > Springs, FL. > > > >

Mine are made from Everdur Silicon Bronze. Mark Cal 48 Wainui Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 1, 2014, at 3:36 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > I pulled all 4 lower shroud chainplates today. They look OK so far. I have not cleaned them up yet nor dye tested. > > Anyone know which type stainless was used in our old Cal sailboats? I suspect 304, but wouldn't 316 be better? Mine are probably ok, but one has a little bend and they are 45 years old, so while out, why not replace them? As my bride says, we don't want to have to do this again! sources of bar stock? > > Oh, and a little surprise. PO replaced the mounting bolts. All nice new 1/4 inch. But, he was substituting the 1/4 inch for larger bolts, at least 5/16. What surprises lay in store! > > Reggie > Living the cruisers life, repairing sailboats in exotic Green Cove Springs, FL. > > >

Reg, You said you pulled the 4 lower chain plates; what about the uppers? David D.

mast is up. I'll pull the uppers after the lowers are reinstalled Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: tm… [at] yahoo.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 17:53:55 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] chainplates Reg, You said you pulled the 4 lower chain plates; what about the uppers? David D.

Reggie, I assume the surveyor thoroughly inspected the bow stem fitting too. When we discovered cracks and replaced the chainplates on Magic, I also found a small crack in the stem fitting. Good Luck, Michael From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: "ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Cc: "db… [at] gmail.com" <db… [at] gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2014 6:36 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] chainplates I pulled all 4 lower shroud chainplates today. They look OK so far. I have not cleaned them up yet nor dye tested. Anyone know which type stainless was used in our old Cal sailboats? I suspect 304, but wouldn't 316 be better? Mine are probably ok, but one has a little bend and they are 45 years old, so while out, why not replace them? As my bride says, we don't want to have to do this again! sources of bar stock? Oh, and a little surprise. PO replaced the mounting bolts. All nice new 1/4 inch. But, he was substituting the 1/4 inch for larger bolts, at least 5/16. What surprises lay in store! Reggie Living the cruisers life, repairing sailboats in exotic Green Cove Springs, FL.