Re: [Cal_Boats] Wind limits for races

Last week at the Wednesday Night races (close quarters in the Severn River and a bit of the Bay near Annapolis. Two boats were dismasted. Started with a strong, but manageable wind, then piped up like crazy. Puffy and shifty as hell. It is hard to tell what might happen during the course of a race. I think the gust factor is just as important as the steady wind. I can set up a boat to race in 25 knots, but the 35-40 knot gusts might still be killers. Add shiftiness, and the problem is multiplied. I think it is up to the RC to grab their collective whatsy with both hands and make a decision to start. It is always up to the skipper of each boat to opt to start or continue a race. I’ver been in enough tough conditions to longer worry about being called a wimp at the bar. If a series trophy is at stake, the self same skipper must consider how important that trophy really is. I’m getting philosophical in my dotage. There are probably too many variables for the RC to make a cookbook solution (crowding of boats, racing area, sea state, and more). Take Care Charlie. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 2:37 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Wind limits for races Allen, I bet some clubs would cancel race at what would be considered average wind conditions in the Bay in the Spring and Summer. Like bumping 25 to 30 knots? At least you are dealing with a protected body of water vs. open water where waves and swells can build. What's interesting in the Santa Monica Bay is the change-ability of wind conditions. Take yesterday. It stated out with a breeze from the North, which went West, got strong, then, practically died, then returned WSW at a good clip as the evening approached. After two hours of sailing Shpritz was going faster, altho I'm not sure how much the breeze and shedding some fouling on my bottom was responsible. Jerry of Shpritz. On Monday, April 28, 2014 9:37 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: I know there has been a discussion of under what conditions RC will cancel a race but most of that had to do with freezing conditions when it came down to it. Without the freezing conditions the wind numbers had to get crazy high as I recall to get enough points to cancel a race. Our club is looking at setting limits just based on wind as our water is always about the same and the weather never gets very cold. But it does get windy. We had a race a couple of years ago where gusts were 55 knots and someone was hurt (lost part of a finger). We had a dismasting on a fairly windy race last year. I don't recall the wind then but I do recall it being windy. Do any clubs set limits on wind, high and low, that you would like to share? Allen

Charlie - I saw Tucker Thompson's video of that day and WHEWEEEE!!! what a mess that was LOL. Downwind start too just to mess with everyone, I love it . . . since I didn't have to deal with it. One year in the Gov Cup we had a downwind start and we were on a beam reach blasting down the line in the lead when my bowman says 1 min to the gun and my wife says "No! It's a 1:30!" Being a good husband I believed her and kept the hammer down and as you may have guessed already we got to the pin with no gun. Thankfully my bowman was as close to a pro sailor as we've ever had on the boat and he danced around up there as we gybed around to head dead into 25 other boats all on starboard tack! Well, miracles do happen and we managed not to foul anyone and start the race with our chute maybe 3rd over the line. Tucker Thompson had that on video and I'm still kicking my ass for not buying it! Wonder how long he keeps old stuff? Paul From: Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 28, 2014 9:21 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Wind limits for races Last week at the Wednesday Night races (close quarters in the Severn River and a bit of the Bay near Annapolis. Two boats were dismasted. Started with a strong, but manageable wind, then piped up like crazy. Puffy and shifty as hell. It is hard to tell what might happen during the course of a race. I think the gust factor is just as important as the steady wind. I can set up a boat to race in 25 knots, but the 35-40 knot gusts might still be killers. Add shiftiness, and the problem is multiplied. I think it is up to the RC to grab their collective whatsy with both hands and make a decision to start. It is always up to the skipper of each boat to opt to start or continue a race. I’ver been in enough tough conditions to longer worry about being called a wimp at the bar. If a series trophy is at stake, the self same skipper must consider how important that trophy really is. I’m getting philosophical in my dotage. There are probably too many variables for the RC to make a cookbook solution (crowding of boats, racing area, sea state, and more). Take Care Charlie. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 2:37 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Wind limits for races Allen, I bet some clubs would cancel race at what would be considered average wind conditions in the Bay in the Spring and Summer. Like bumping 25 to 30 knots? At least you are dealing with a protected body of water vs. open water where waves and swells can build. What's interesting in the Santa Monica Bay is the change-ability of wind conditions. Take yesterday. It stated out with a breeze from the North, which went West, got strong, then, practically died, then returned WSW at a good clip as the evening approached. After two hours of sailing Shpritz was going faster, altho I'm not sure how much the breeze and shedding some fouling on my bottom was responsible. Jerry of Shpritz. On Monday, April 28, 2014 9:37 AM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: I know there has been a discussion of under what conditions RC will cancel a race but most of that had to do with freezing conditions when it came down to it. Without the freezing conditions the wind numbers had to get crazy high as I recall to get enough points to cancel a race. Our club is looking at setting limits just based on wind as our water is always about the same and the weather never gets very cold. But it does get windy. We had a race a couple of years ago where gusts were 55 knots and someone was hurt (lost part of a finger). We had a dismasting on a fairly windy race last year. I don't recall the wind then but I do recall it being windy. Do any clubs set limits on wind, high and low, that you would like to share? Allen

On 4/28/2014 9:21 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > > I think it is up to the RC to grab their collective whatsy with both > hands and make a decision to start. It is always up to the skipper of > each boat to opt to start or continue a race. I’ver been in enough > tough conditions to longer worry about being called a wimp at the > bar. If a series trophy is at stake, the self same skipper must > consider how important that trophy really is. I’m getting > philosophical in my dotage. > We all get reflective when we have more experience because then we have empirical data to make judgments. You left out one decision--it's not just start vs. continue; it's how hard to continue--how much to stress the boat and crew if you do continue. Chris Campbell > >

It looks like we are closing in on 5 to 25 knots as the limits with gusts less than 30. Also, no Gail warnings or Thunder in the forecast. Allen On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > On 4/28/2014 9:21 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > I think it is up to the RC to grab their collective whatsy with both hands > and make a decision to start. It is always up to the skipper of each boat > to opt to start or continue a race. I’ver been in enough tough conditions > to longer worry about being called a wimp at the bar. If a series trophy > is at stake, the self same skipper must consider how important that trophy > really is. I’m getting philosophical in my dotage. > > > We all get reflective when we have more experience because then we have > empirical data to make judgments. You left out one decision--it's not just > start vs. continue; it's how hard to continue--how much to stress the boat > and crew if you do continue. > > Chris Campbell > > > > >

Greetings On april 26 last Saturday Coyote PT RC. called off the two remaining races winds over 30knots steep chop and short wave time very close. SF bay is very shallow south of Hunters PT the wind and waves combine fetch build up and run into shallow shoals I have seen these wave about 4-6ft high easy. SF bay RC have called off many races we have one the best strong winds on the west coast on a regular summer day scott On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:52 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: On 4/28/2014 9:21 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > >I think it is up to the RC to grab their collective whatsy with both hands and make a decision to start. It is always up to the skipper of each boat to opt to start or continue a race. I’ver been in enough tough conditions to longer worry about being called a wimp at the bar. If a series trophy is at stake, the self same skipper must consider how important that trophy really is. I’m getting philosophical in my dotage. We all get reflective when we have more experience because then we have empirical data to make judgments. You left out one decision--it's not just start vs. continue; it's how hard to continue--how much to stress the boat and crew if you do continue. Chris Campbell >

Let the skippers decide! We sailed a GGYC race when the woodies stayed home. Did very well too. So what if the wind was 30+ apparent. If you have reservations about your crew and their ability that is another issue. It's a judgment call, I have raced since 1966 and only dropped out of 1 race because of conditions (Singlehanded Farallones) when I filled my cockpit 2/3 full twice in 2011. Let the racers decide! My Best, Yellow Jack us 57313 On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:58 PM, Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> wrote: It looks like we are closing in on 5 to 25 knots as the limits with gusts less than 30. Also, no Gail warnings or Thunder in the forecast. Allen On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > >On 4/28/2014 9:21 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > >> >>I think it is up to the RC to grab their collective whatsy with both hands and make a decision to start. It is always up to the skipper of each boat to opt to start or continue a race. I’ver been in enough tough conditions to longer worry about being called a wimp at the bar. If a series trophy is at stake, the self same skipper must consider how important that trophy really is. I’m getting philosophical in my dotage. > We all get reflective when we have more experience because then we have empirical data to make judgments. You left out one decision--it's not just start vs. continue; it's how hard to continue--how much to stress the boat and crew if you do continue. > >Chris Campbell > > >> >

On 4/29/2014 4:18 PM, mike farrell wrote: > > > Let the skippers decide! We sailed a GGYC race when the woodies > stayed home. Did very well too. So what if the wind was 30+ > apparent. If you have reservations about your crew and their ability > that is another issue. It's a judgment call, I have raced since 1966 > and only dropped out of 1 race because of conditions (Singlehanded > Farallones) when I filled my cockpit 2/3 full twice in 2011. Let the > racers decide! Sometimes it's worth having some group-think involved. Males especially may take risks that aren't fully justified. Having a community of experienced people making decisions may temper the worst excesses of testosterone poisoning. Most of us guys can reflect on times when we made really dumb decisions and managed to survive or avoid injury mostly by luck. At least I have. "Watch me do this!!" Of course, there are times when excessive risk is justified. The examples abound in wartime or in rescue situations. But local races don't rise to that level of seriousness. Yeah, it's fun to test our skill and our mettle, but the wiser course may be to stay on shore. Chris Campbell >

The bottom line is that the skippers decided they want wind limits. I also agree with Chris, particularly as we have some skippers who have never raced before. It also helps participation when we avoid having people go out and come back saying, "that sucked. I am never doing that again". And broken boats tend to not come back. It is also tough as a skipper to tell crew that just drove an hour to get to the boat that you decided not to go out. It just doesn't happen. Allen On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > > > On 4/29/2014 4:18 PM, mike farrell wrote: > > Let the skippers decide! We sailed a GGYC race when the woodies > stayed home. Did very well too. So what if the wind was 30+ apparent. If > you have reservations about your crew and their ability that is another > issue. It's a judgment call, I have raced since 1966 and only dropped out > of 1 race because of conditions (Singlehanded Farallones) when I filled my > cockpit 2/3 full twice in 2011. Let the racers decide! > > > Sometimes it's worth having some group-think involved. Males especially > may take risks that aren't fully justified. Having a community of > experienced people making decisions may temper the worst excesses of > testosterone poisoning. Most of us guys can reflect on times when we made > really dumb decisions and managed to survive or avoid injury mostly by > luck. At least I have. > > "Watch me do this!!" > > Of course, there are times when excessive risk is justified. The examples > abound in wartime or in rescue situations. But local races don't rise to > that level of seriousness. Yeah, it's fun to test our skill and our > mettle, but the wiser course may be to stay on shore. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > >