RE: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat

Chris, that sounds like an old dog and new tricks story. Except in this case, the dog did win out. I have no idea, either. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 10:16 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat So I'm sitting at my mother's house on the other side of the state from where I live while I spend the weekend working on the other boat. And we're watching her TV, something I don't do at home, and on comes an ad for a "Mr. Clean" product, these little cleaning sponges. That elicits a hoot of derision from me. "Why don't they just get a bucket of water, some soap, and a regular sponge, instead of spending money on those things?" And the next day I'm at the boat when an old friend shows up. He's been working on his boat over in the heated building. He notices the brown spots all over the bow of my boat where something has been leaching out of the gelcoat and through the aging Imron. I told him I'd tried everything to remove them Solvents included paint thinner, alcohol, acetone, lacquer thinner, VM&P naphtha. Then I tried vinegar and 409 cleaner and water. Nothing touched them. He offered up a used "Mr. Clean" cleaning sponge, observing that it removes all manner of stuff. I tried it--no effect. I rubbed a little more and hey, the marks are getting lights. Hey, they're coming off!!!!! The message is that if you've got some really tenacious crud, try the "Mr. Clean" cleaning sponges. And then explain to me why they work, please. Chris Campbell ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links

One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ Imron job. That can happen easily. Take Care Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John b Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat Mr clean sponges were designed to be used as insulation but was too expensive. The grains in the structure are so fine that they act as 1000 or higher grit sandpaper. The grains are so fine that nothing can grow on it On Apr 28, 2014 10:16 AM, "Chris Campbell" <cc… [at] lsnm.org<mailto:cc… [at] lsnm.org>> wrote: So I'm sitting at my mother's house on the other side of the state from where I live while I spend the weekend working on the other boat. And we're watching her TV, something I don't do at home, and on comes an ad for a "Mr. Clean" product, these little cleaning sponges. That elicits a hoot of derision from me. "Why don't they just get a bucket of water, some soap, and a regular sponge, instead of spending money on those things?" And the next day I'm at the boat when an old friend shows up. He's been working on his boat over in the heated building. He notices the brown spots all over the bow of my boat where something has been leaching out of the gelcoat and through the aging Imron. I told him I'd tried everything to remove them Solvents included paint thinner, alcohol, acetone, lacquer thinner, VM&P naphtha. Then I tried vinegar and 409 cleaner and water. Nothing touched them. He offered up a used "Mr. Clean" cleaning sponge, observing that it removes all manner of stuff. I tried it--no effect. I rubbed a little more and hey, the marks are getting lights. Hey, they're coming off!!!!! The message is that if you've got some really tenacious crud, try the "Mr. Clean" cleaning sponges. And then explain to me why they work, please. Chris Campbell

I guess that might lead one to conclude that rubbing compound and a polisher might take off whatever is staining the finish, at least, temporarily. Jerry of Shpritz. On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 5:33 PM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: >One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ Imron job. That can happen easily. > >Take Care >Charlie >Annapolis > >From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John b >Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:00 PM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat > >Mr clean sponges were designed to be used as insulation but was too expensive. The grains in the structure are so fine that they act as 1000 or higher grit sandpaper. The grains are so fine that nothing can grow on it >On Apr 28, 2014 10:16 AM, "Chris Campbell" <cc… [at] lsnm.org> wrote: > >So I'm sitting at my mother's house on the other side of the state from >where I live while I spend the weekend working on the other boat. And >we're watching her TV, something I don't do at home, and on comes an ad >for a "Mr. Clean" product, these little cleaning sponges. That elicits >a hoot of derision from me. "Why don't they just get a bucket of water, >some soap, and a regular sponge, instead of spending money on those >things?" > >And the next day I'm at the boat when an old friend shows up. He's been >working on his boat over in the heated building. He notices the brown >spots all over the bow of my boat where something has been leaching out >of the gelcoat and through the aging Imron. I told him I'd tried >everything to remove them Solvents included paint thinner, alcohol, >acetone, lacquer thinner, VM&P naphtha. Then I tried vinegar and 409 >cleaner and water. Nothing touched them. He offered up a used "Mr. >Clean" cleaning sponge, observing that it removes all manner of stuff. >I tried it--no effect. I rubbed a little more and hey, the marks are >getting lights. Hey, they're coming off!!!!! > >The message is that if you've got some really tenacious crud, try the >"Mr. Clean" cleaning sponges. And then explain to me why they work, please. > >Chris Campbell > > > > > > >

On 4/29/2014 8:33 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ Imron > job. That can happen easily. > Chris's Imron job is about 30 years old and failing fast. On one side of the boat, the primer is losing adhesion, and I've been painting the bare patches with some carefully-mixed Brightsides enamel that matches the original color. On the other side, where I used Mr. Clean's handy sponge, there's an area maybe 18" square with these ugly brown spots leaching out from underneath, like a case of measles. Let's just say that fine scratches on the Imron are not a problem. But just out of curiosity, I'll examine the area next weekend and see if I can discern any fine scratches. If so, maybe I'll use the things on the Brightsides, which matches in color but is much glossier than the Imron around it. Chris Campbell > >

Ah, yes, Chris. I guess they call that the matte finish. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat On 4/29/2014 8:33 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ Imron job. That can happen easily. Chris's Imron job is about 30 years old and failing fast. On one side of the boat, the primer is losing adhesion, and I've been painting the bare patches with some carefully-mixed Brightsides enamel that matches the original color. On the other side, where I used Mr. Clean's handy sponge, there's an area maybe 18" square with these ugly brown spots leaching out from underneath, like a case of measles. Let's just say that fine scratches on the Imron are not a problem. But just out of curiosity, I'll examine the area next weekend and see if I can discern any fine scratches. If so, maybe I'll use the things on the Brightsides, which matches in color but is much glossier than the Imron around it. Chris Campbell

On 4/30/2014 10:03 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > Ah, yes, Chris. I guess they call that the matte finish. > When we bought the boat in 1968, the decks had already been painted. The original owners seemed to prefer the trowel as their favored paint applicator. But the decks had a "matte finish." To my eye, it looked like oxidized paint. The interim owner who was selling it to us explained that they had intentionally painted it at dusk, so the dew would dull the gloss and prevent glare in the sunshine. Yeah, for sure. I was polite enough not to laugh out loud. Remember that line the next time you're selling an old car. We painted the decks with brushable two-part polyurethane around 1975 or so. All the trowel marks that were hidden by the "matte finish" showed up. But that polyurethane is still the finish. Not much problem with glare these days. The Imron was a later professional job. Looked great for the first 15 years. Chris Campbell > > Cheers > > Charlie > > *From:*Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Chris Campbell > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat > > > > > On 4/29/2014 8:33 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ > Imron job. That can happen easily. > > > Chris's Imron job is about 30 years old and failing fast. On one side > of the boat, the primer is losing adhesion, and I've been painting the > bare patches with some carefully-mixed Brightsides enamel that matches > the original color. On the other side, where I used Mr. Clean's handy > sponge, there's an area maybe 18" square with these ugly brown spots > leaching out from underneath, like a case of measles. Let's just say > that fine scratches on the Imron are not a problem. > > But just out of curiosity, I'll examine the area next weekend and see > if I can discern any fine scratches. If so, maybe I'll use the things > on the Brightsides, which matches in color but is much glossier than > the Imron around it. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > >

While we are on the subject of boat cleaning the PO of our boat had it painted with a winter white Awlgrip and the guy did a fabulous job. Trouble is that deck runoff is leaving streaks on the paint. What is the best (and by best I mean easiest) way to remove them? I'll be first to admit that I have not kept up on waxing the hull so I presume that I am going to need buffing compound but I know Awlgrip has unique issues and that you can't assume anything will work with it. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 4/30/2014 10:49:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cc… [at] lsnm.org writes: On 4/30/2014 10:03 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: Ah, yes, Chris. I guess they call that the matte finish. When we bought the boat in 1968, the decks had already been painted. The original owners seemed to prefer the trowel as their favored paint applicator. But the decks had a "matte finish." To my eye, it looked like oxidized paint. The interim owner who was selling it to us explained that they had intentionally painted it at dusk, so the dew would dull the gloss and prevent glare in the sunshine. Yeah, for sure. I was polite enough not to laugh out loud. Remember that line the next time you're selling an old car. We painted the decks with brushable two-part polyurethane around 1975 or so. All the trowel marks that were hidden by the "matte finish" showed up. But that polyurethane is still the finish. Not much problem with glare these days. The Imron was a later professional job. Looked great for the first 15 years. Chris Campbell Cheers Charlie From: _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM To: _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat On 4/29/2014 8:33 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ Imron job. That can happen easily. Chris's Imron job is about 30 years old and failing fast. On one side of the boat, the primer is losing adhesion, and I've been painting the bare patches with some carefully-mixed Brightsides enamel that matches the original color. On the other side, where I used Mr. Clean's handy sponge, there's an area maybe 18" square with these ugly brown spots leaching out from underneath, like a case of measles. Let's just say that fine scratches on the Imron are not a problem. But just out of curiosity, I'll examine the area next weekend and see if I can discern any fine scratches. If so, maybe I'll use the things on the Brightsides, which matches in color but is much glossier than the Imron around it. Chris Campbell

If the streaks are due to an organic material, bleach may resolve the streaks. Here in eastern NC we also get a "Neuse Mustache" where brackish water stains the bow. Best resolution is "On-Off" a light muratic acid solution the will make the stains go away. The FSR also works well but may require a little more elbow grease when applying. Both should be available at your local boating store. John Raxter > On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:58 AM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > While we are on the subject of boat cleaning the PO of our boat had it painted with a winter white Awlgrip and the guy did a fabulous job. Trouble is that deck runoff is leaving streaks on the paint. What is the best (and by best I mean easiest) way to remove them? I'll be first to admit that I have not kept up on waxing the hull so I presume that I am going to need buffing compound but I know Awlgrip has unique issues and that you can't assume anything will work with it. > > Thanks - > > Paul > > In a message dated 4/30/2014 10:49:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cc… [at] lsnm.org writes: > >> On 4/30/2014 10:03 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: >> Ah, yes, Chris. I guess they call that the matte finish. >> > > When we bought the boat in 1968, the decks had already been painted. The original owners seemed to prefer the trowel as their favored paint applicator. But the decks had a "matte finish." To my eye, it looked like oxidized paint. The interim owner who was selling it to us explained that they had intentionally painted it at dusk, so the dew would dull the gloss and prevent glare in the sunshine. Yeah, for sure. I was polite enough not to laugh out loud. Remember that line the next time you're selling an old car. > > We painted the decks with brushable two-part polyurethane around 1975 or so. All the trowel marks that were hidden by the "matte finish" showed up. But that polyurethane is still the finish. Not much problem with glare these days. > > The Imron was a later professional job. Looked great for the first 15 years. > > Chris Campbell >> Cheers >> >> Charlie >> >> >> >> From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell >> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 4/29/2014 8:33 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: >> >> One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ Imron job. That can happen easily. >> >> >> Chris's Imron job is about 30 years old and failing fast. On one side of the boat, the primer is losing adhesion, and I've been painting the bare patches with some carefully-mixed Brightsides enamel that matches the original color. On the other side, where I used Mr. Clean's handy sponge, there's an area maybe 18" square with these ugly brown spots leaching out from underneath, like a case of measles. Let's just say that fine scratches on the Imron are not a problem. >> >> But just out of curiosity, I'll examine the area next weekend and see if I can discern any fine scratches. If so, maybe I'll use the things on the Brightsides, which matches in color but is much glossier than the Imron around it. >> >> Chris Campbell > >

I'm not sure what the nature of the streaks are. We have an aluminum toe rail and I suspect it's the cause but can't be sure. I say that just because it is a royal PITA to get them off. We've used the Awlwash and it helped a bit but with serious elbow grease. What is FSR? Have you used both products on Awlgrip? I don't know if it's a marketing thing to get you to buy their products or if it really damages the paint but everything I read frowns on using anything not made by them so who knows? At this point I just want it off. Thanks! Paul In a message dated 4/30/2014 11:12:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jr… [at] triad.rr.com writes: If the streaks are due to an organic material, bleach may resolve the streaks. Here in eastern NC we also get a "Neuse Mustache" where brackish water stains the bow. Best resolution is "On-Off" a light muratic acid solution the will make the stains go away. The FSR also works well but may require a little more elbow grease when applying. Both should be available at your local boating store. John Raxter On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:58 AM, _p… [at] aol.com_ (mailto:pw… [at] aol.com) wrote: While we are on the subject of boat cleaning the PO of our boat had it painted with a winter white Awlgrip and the guy did a fabulous job. Trouble is that deck runoff is leaving streaks on the paint. What is the best (and by best I mean easiest) way to remove them? I'll be first to admit that I have not kept up on waxing the hull so I presume that I am going to need buffing compound but I know Awlgrip has unique issues and that you can't assume anything will work with it. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 4/30/2014 10:49:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _c… [at] lsnm.org_ (mailto:cc… [at] lsnm.org) writes: On 4/30/2014 10:03 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: Ah, yes, Chris. I guess they call that the matte finish. When we bought the boat in 1968, the decks had already been painted. The original owners seemed to prefer the trowel as their favored paint applicator. But the decks had a "matte finish." To my eye, it looked like oxidized paint. The interim owner who was selling it to us explained that they had intentionally painted it at dusk, so the dew would dull the gloss and prevent glare in the sunshine. Yeah, for sure. I was polite enough not to laugh out loud. Remember that line the next time you're selling an old car. We painted the decks with brushable two-part polyurethane around 1975 or so. All the trowel marks that were hidden by the "matte finish" showed up. But that polyurethane is still the finish. Not much problem with glare these days. The Imron was a later professional job. Looked great for the first 15 years. Chris Campbell Cheers Charlie From: _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM To: _C… [at] yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat On 4/29/2014 8:33 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ Imron job. That can happen easily. Chris's Imron job is about 30 years old and failing fast. On one side of the boat, the primer is losing adhesion, and I've been painting the bare patches with some carefully-mixed Brightsides enamel that matches the original color. On the other side, where I used Mr. Clean's handy sponge, there's an area maybe 18" square with these ugly brown spots leaching out from underneath, like a case of measles. Let's just say that fine scratches on the Imron are not a problem. But just out of curiosity, I'll examine the area next weekend and see if I can discern any fine scratches. If so, maybe I'll use the things on the Brightsides, which matches in color but is much glossier than the Imron around it. Chris Campbell

On 4/30/2014 11:12 AM, John Raxter wrote: > > > If the streaks are due to an organic material, bleach may resolve the > streaks. This is something that's coming out from under the paint. The boat was built in 1961 to pretty high standards, but the one notable failing seems to have been in the stability of the polyester resin used and the gelcoat. I suspect that maybe their resin/hardener ratios weren't managed perfectly, or maybe their mixing practices, and perhaps there has been some delayed curing. Al I know is that there were minor irregularities visible on the hull in about 1968, and some of them became more pronounced over the years, mostly well above the waterline and not in the nature of blisters. That's why I had the professional Imron job around 1986 or so. It looked good for quite a few years then the irregularities began to telegraph through again. It seems to be a purely cosmetic issue, but for those of us who value pretty and well-maintained boats, cosmetics matter. I have suppressed my desire for perfection in light of what we can call economic reality (cost of attaining perfection). These days I figure that the 40-foot rule applies to old boats. These brown spots are a development over the last couple years. This year I tried hydrogen peroxide and vinegar plus a variety of more volatile solvents like alcohol, paint thinner, acetone, naphtha, and lacquer thinner. I tried 409 Cleaner. Nothing touched the stuff until Mr. Clean came along. Chris Campbell

Paul, FSR and Y-10 are oxalic acid based. They work on gelcoat, but not sure about affect on Imron. Takes out yellow and rust very quickly, but I am told it makes the surface more porous, and more prone to yellowing in the future. Below is a note from Sailing Anarchy. Take Care Charlie . ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The biggest mistake I made with my yacht some 20 years ago was to use an oxalic or phosphoric acid based gel (in my case EmerGel or Grunt) to rid the white topsides of oxidation and yellowing rather than putting in the hard yards and cutting it out with a fine cutting compound. I had been warned by boat builder mates not to do it but hey it was easy. Even after a good waxing the hull yellowed much more quickly meaning I had to haul the boat more regularly. After 10 years of this I had the topsides re-sprayed and since then I have only relied on elbow grease to get rid of the slight yellowing that occurs. The problem with the gel cleaners is that it also removes the waxy polymers in the gelcoat and opens up micro pores that an ordinary wax cannot fill. I still use gel cleaners but only on the stainless brightwork to get rid of rust stains. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:19 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat I'm not sure what the nature of the streaks are. We have an aluminum toe rail and I suspect it's the cause but can't be sure. I say that just because it is a royal PITA to get them off. We've used the Awlwash and it helped a bit but with serious elbow grease. What is FSR? Have you used both products on Awlgrip? I don't know if it's a marketing thing to get you to buy their products or if it really damages the paint but everything I read frowns on using anything not made by them so who knows? At this point I just want it off. Thanks! Paul In a message dated 4/30/2014 11:12:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jr… [at] triad.rr.com writes: If the streaks are due to an organic material, bleach may resolve the streaks. Here in eastern NC we also get a "Neuse Mustache" where brackish water stains the bow. Best resolution is "On-Off" a light muratic acid solution the will make the stains go away. The FSR also works well but may require a little more elbow grease when applying. Both should be available at your local boating store. John Raxter On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:58 AM, pw… [at] aol.com<mailto:pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: While we are on the subject of boat cleaning the PO of our boat had it painted with a winter white Awlgrip and the guy did a fabulous job. Trouble is that deck runoff is leaving streaks on the paint. What is the best (and by best I mean easiest) way to remove them? I'll be first to admit that I have not kept up on waxing the hull so I presume that I am going to need buffing compound but I know Awlgrip has unique issues and that you can't assume anything will work with it. Thanks - Paul In a message dated 4/30/2014 10:49:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cc… [at] lsnm.org<mailto:cc… [at] lsnm.org> writes: On 4/30/2014 10:03 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: Ah, yes, Chris. I guess they call that the matte finish. When we bought the boat in 1968, the decks had already been painted. The original owners seemed to prefer the trowel as their favored paint applicator. But the decks had a "matte finish." To my eye, it looked like oxidized paint. The interim owner who was selling it to us explained that they had intentionally painted it at dusk, so the dew would dull the gloss and prevent glare in the sunshine. Yeah, for sure. I was polite enough not to laugh out loud. Remember that line the next time you're selling an old car. We painted the decks with brushable two-part polyurethane around 1975 or so. All the trowel marks that were hidden by the "matte finish" showed up. But that polyurethane is still the finish. Not much problem with glare these days. The Imron was a later professional job. Looked great for the first 15 years. Chris Campbell Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:51 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] cleaning the boat On 4/29/2014 8:33 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: One (or two, maybe) would also wonder about scratching Chris’ Imron job. That can happen easily. Chris's Imron job is about 30 years old and failing fast. On one side of the boat, the primer is losing adhesion, and I've been painting the bare patches with some carefully-mixed Brightsides enamel that matches the original color. On the other side, where I used Mr. Clean's handy sponge, there's an area maybe 18" square with these ugly brown spots leaching out from underneath, like a case of measles. Let's just say that fine scratches on the Imron are not a problem. But just out of curiosity, I'll examine the area next weekend and see if I can discern any fine scratches. If so, maybe I'll use the things on the Brightsides, which matches in color but is much glossier than the Imron around it. Chris Campbell