wind vane

Greets everyone,,, Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. I will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to know the angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to adjust the tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone know what the tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of my Cal 2-29? Is there a difference for racing and cruising? What would be a good median? Thanks again for any advice! Happy Sailing Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY

Jim, I suggest you not use them. I never do. I just want to know where the apparent wind is coming from (the arrow). Your closed hauled angle will change a lot based on wind speed and water slop. Better to watch the sail rather than the feathers. I do look at the arrow angle frequently. My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kool Beans Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:29 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane Greets everyone,,, Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. I will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to know the angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to adjust the tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone know what the tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of my Cal 2-29? Is there a difference for racing and cruising? What would be a good median? Thanks again for any advice! Happy Sailing Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY

Set them to +- 30 degrees. Yes, it is better to watch the sails but every now and then things are not right and you can look up there and say, oh shit, I got way off the wind. I need to head up. The idea is that you probably want to sail at 45 degrees true and the wind speed and your boat speed moves that forward. Thus my suggestion of 30 degrees apparent. But is not something you can sail to. I also use mine to translate from apparent wind speed to true wind speed. I think they are useful although as was said you can't sail to them. Allen On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) < hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: > > > Jim, I suggest you not use them. I never do. I just want to know where > the apparent wind is coming from (the arrow). Your closed hauled angle > will change a lot based on wind speed and water slop. Better to watch the > sail rather than the feathers. I do look at the arrow angle frequently. > > > > My Two Cents > > Charlie > > Annapolis > > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Kool Beans > *Sent:* Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:29 PM > *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane > > > > > > > Greets everyone,,, > > Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. I > will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to know the > angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to adjust the > tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone know what the > tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of my Cal 2-29? Is > there a difference for racing and cruising? What would be a good median? > > Thanks again for any advice! > > Happy Sailing > > Jim Ives - Kool Beans > Rochester, NY > > > > > >

I have to respectfully agree/disagree with Charlie. I would put them up there but not depend on them for how you are sailing but merely as a quicker reference as to how well you are or are not pointing. It will take some experience but you'll know at a glance whether or not you're pointing as you should. It also helps if you turn over the tiller to someone for a bit. You can say "you should be able to keep the tail an inch inside the vane instead "keep the arrow at 10:30ish and we'll be fine". Also helps a great deal when sailing downwind, especially dead down, as the arrow will slip over a second or two before an accidental gybe. Just enough time to correct and/or yell DUCK!! My 2 cents. Paul From: Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, May 1, 2014 9:40 pm Subject: RE: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane Jim, I suggest you not use them. I never do. I just want to know where the apparent wind is coming from (the arrow). Your closed hauled angle will change a lot based on wind speed and water slop. Better to watch the sail rather than the feathers. I do look at the arrow angle frequently. My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kool Beans Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:29 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane Greets everyone,,, Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. I will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to know the angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to adjust the tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone know what the tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of my Cal 2-29? Is there a difference for racing and cruising? What would be a good median? Thanks again for any advice! Happy Sailing Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY

There are some tools on L-36.com that can help you get familiar with what the windex might look like for differrent winds when you are sailing at 45 degrees to the wind. At light winds, you will likely not sail at 45 degrees so the windex is going to be closer to overlapped than what this shows but it is close. This set is for a boat with a 24 ft wlw like your boat. This is for a 30 degree angle (60 degrees total) on the windex. You can adjust the settings on the page to whatever you want to try. http://L-36.com/polar_targets.php?flag=30&flagw=10&tail=15&lwl=24&perf_factor=1.35&ref=45&polar_tws=4.7&polar_bs=3.4&polar2_tws=15&polar2_bs=6.3&tws_start=4&tws_end=20&tws_step=2&mode=target<http://l-36.com/polar_targets.php?flag=30&flagw=10&tail=15&lwl=24&perf_factor=1.35&ref=45&polar_tws=4.7&polar_bs=3.4&polar2_tws=15&polar2_bs=6.3&tws_start=4&tws_end=20&tws_step=2&mode=target> As far as a guide to tell you if you are heading in the optimum direction, use boat speed, not the windex. If you are going to fast, head up. Too slow, fall off. The boat speeds on this table will be close to what you want for your boat. Sailing to an optimum boat speed is an order of magnitude more accurate than trying to sail to a wind angle. But it is still useful particularly when you have something set really wrong as happens to all of us, except Charlie. Allen On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 9:37 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > > I have to respectfully agree/disagree with Charlie. I would put them up > there but not depend on them for how you are sailing but merely as a > quicker reference as to how well you are or are not pointing. It will take > some experience but you'll know at a glance whether or not you're pointing > as you should. It also helps if you turn over the tiller to someone for a > bit. You can say "you should be able to keep the tail an inch inside the > vane instead "keep the arrow at 10:30ish and we'll be fine". Also helps a > great deal when sailing downwind, especially dead down, as the arrow will > slip over a second or two before an accidental gybe. Just enough time to > correct and/or yell DUCK!! > > My 2 cents. > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) [USA] (ASE) <hu… [at] bah.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, May 1, 2014 9:40 pm > Subject: RE: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane > > > Jim, I suggest you not use them. I never do. I just want to know > where the apparent wind is coming from (the arrow). Your closed hauled > angle will change a lot based on wind speed and water slop. Better to > watch the sail rather than the feathers. I do look at the arrow angle > frequently. > > My Two Cents > Charlie > Annapolis > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com?>] > *On Behalf Of *Kool Beans > *Sent:* Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:29 PM > *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane > > > > > Greets everyone,,, > > Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. I > will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to know the > angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to adjust the > tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone know what the > tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of my Cal 2-29? Is > there a difference for racing and cruising? What would be a good median? > > Thanks again for any advice! > > Happy Sailing > > Jim Ives - Kool Beans > Rochester, NY > > > > > >

On 5/1/2014 9:40 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > > Jim, I suggest you not use them. I never do. I just want to know > where the apparent wind is coming from (the arrow). Your closed hauled > angle will change a lot based on wind speed and water slop. Better to > watch the sail rather than the feathers. I do look at the arrow angle > frequently. > I'll file a minor dissent. Having the angle indicators up there gives you a point of reference--"gee, normally I can be closer hauled than this, what's wrong?" In some cases, as Charlie notes, it's because of wind and wave conditions, or maybe because of the sail complement at the moment, but sometimes we are just doing something wrong, or not paying attention, and having a visual reminder may be helpful. Maybe I need to flatten that main some.... I don't set mine for any special angle. I just kind of eyeball them for equal angle on each side, then as I sail I get used to where the wind indicator ought to be. Maybe the vane is inside the marks, maybe it's outside, doesn't matter as long as I know what the boat usually does when well sailed. My constant visual indicators are the tell-tales on the sails. Those are what really tell me what the sail is doing, and I tend to stare at them all the time when I'm at the helm. But then I'll glance up at the masthead fly to make sure it's where it ought to be. Chris Campbell > > My Two Cents > > Charlie > > Annapolis > > *From:*Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Kool Beans > *Sent:* Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:29 PM > *To:* ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane > > > > > Greets everyone,,, > > Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. > I will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to > know the angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to > adjust the tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone > know what the tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of > my Cal 2-29? Is there a difference for racing and cruising? What would > be a good median? > > Thanks again for any advice! > > Happy Sailing > > Jim Ives - Kool Beans > Rochester, NY > > > > > > >

I also use mine as a reference when tacking or gybing. When I'm steering through the maneuver and I think I'm close to the new course I'll look up and set the new angle based on the windex and the tabs. This is much more accurate than guessing, for me, and gets me on the new course before the sails are trimmed in. I look just before the tack to see the relative positions of the indicator and the tab, then set the new course slightly lower to allow the boat to accelerate as the jib is trimmed in. George From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Chris Campbell [cc… [at] lsnm.org] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 11:38 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane On 5/1/2014 9:40 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: Jim, I suggest you not use them. I never do. I just want to know where the apparent wind is coming from (the arrow). Your closed hauled angle will change a lot based on wind speed and water slop. Better to watch the sail rather than the feathers. I do look at the arrow angle frequently. I'll file a minor dissent. Having the angle indicators up there gives you a point of reference--"gee, normally I can be closer hauled than this, what's wrong?" In some cases, as Charlie notes, it's because of wind and wave conditions, or maybe because of the sail complement at the moment, but sometimes we are just doing something wrong, or not paying attention, and having a visual reminder may be helpful. Maybe I need to flatten that main some.... I don't set mine for any special angle. I just kind of eyeball them for equal angle on each side, then as I sail I get used to where the wind indicator ought to be. Maybe the vane is inside the marks, maybe it's outside, doesn't matter as long as I know what the boat usually does when well sailed. My constant visual indicators are the tell-tales on the sails. Those are what really tell me what the sail is doing, and I tend to stare at them all the time when I'm at the helm. But then I'll glance up at the masthead fly to make sure it's where it ought to be. Chris Campbell My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kool Beans Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:29 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane Greets everyone,,, Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. I will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to know the angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to adjust the tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone know what the tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of my Cal 2-29? Is there a difference for racing and cruising? What would be a good median? Thanks again for any advice! Happy Sailing Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY

I have the wind indicator but not for tacking. I would never think about taking my glance off the mainsail luff during a tack, and the second the luff of the sail fills in, I call course. ... Just a few grains from an old salt. Mark Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane On 5/1/2014 9:40 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: Jim, I suggest you not use them. I never do. I just want to know where the apparent wind is coming from (the arrow). Your closed hauled angle will change a lot based on wind speed and water slop. Better to watch the sail rather than the feathers. I do look at the arrow angle frequently. I'll file a minor dissent. Having the angle indicators up there gives you a point of reference--"gee, normally I can be closer hauled than this, what's wrong?" In some cases, as Charlie notes, it's because of wind and wave conditions, or maybe because of the sail complement at the moment, but sometimes we are just doing something wrong, or not paying attention, and having a visual reminder may be helpful. Maybe I need to flatten that main some.... I don't set mine for any special angle. I just kind of eyeball them for equal angle on each side, then as I sail I get used to where the wind indicator ought to be. Maybe the vane is inside the marks, maybe it's outside, doesn't matter as long as I know what the boat usually does when well sailed. My constant visual indicators are the tell-tales on the sails. Those are what really tell me what the sail is doing, and I tend to stare at them all the time when I'm at the helm. But then I'll glance up at the masthead fly to make sure it's where it ought to be. Chris Campbell My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kool Beans Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:29 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane Greets everyone,,, Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. I will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to know the angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to adjust the tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone know what the tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of my Cal 2-29? Is there a difference for racing and cruising? What would be a good median? Thanks again for any advice! Happy Sailing Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY

Greets everyone,, Thank you everyone for your valuable advice about the wind vane and my engine compartment questions. I have enough input to successfully succeed in my projects that are in progress. As for the engine compartment, I will heed the advice about the fumes, good idea to wear a mask in tight quarters. Lots of great ideas on what to use as well. I'm sure that I'll put the advice to good use for the vanes. I have bright colored yarn (yellow) on the forward and middle shroud on both the port and starboard side. That might be old fashioned, but was taught that when I was a youngster learning on a Comet. I checked out the article on the L-36.com site and read with interest, very good by the way. All your advice on how to set it up is much appreciated. I know that it will help make me a better sailor, especially if I attempt to race and be competitive. In addition, it will easier to show people when I take them sailing for their first time, how to watch the wind for they always complain that they can't see it...... It will also help my significant other to help keep the boat pointed into wind when hoisting sails... somehow, they can't grasp the yarn concept.... I do have one of the front of the mast, which is used for my wind instrument, but which is another project to work on... Thank you all for responding back! Have a great day, happy sailing and be safe! Regards,, Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ma… [at] cox.net Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 14:54:30 -0700 Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane I have the wind indicator but not for tacking. I would never think about taking my glance off the mainsail luff during a tack, and the second the luff of the sail fills in, I call course. ... Just a few grains from an old salt. Mark Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane On 5/1/2014 9:40 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: Jim, I suggest you not use them. I never do. I just want to know where the apparent wind is coming from (the arrow). Your closed hauled angle will change a lot based on wind speed and water slop. Better to watch the sail rather than the feathers. I do look at the arrow angle frequently. I'll file a minor dissent. Having the angle indicators up there gives you a point of reference--"gee, normally I can be closer hauled than this, what's wrong?" In some cases, as Charlie notes, it's because of wind and wave conditions, or maybe because of the sail complement at the moment, but sometimes we are just doing something wrong, or not paying attention, and having a visual reminder may be helpful. Maybe I need to flatten that main some.... I don't set mine for any special angle. I just kind of eyeball them for equal angle on each side, then as I sail I get used to where the wind indicator ought to be. Maybe the vane is inside the marks, maybe it's outside, doesn't matter as long as I know what the boat usually does when well sailed. My constant visual indicators are the tell-tales on the sails. Those are what really tell me what the sail is doing, and I tend to stare at them all the time when I'm at the helm. But then I'll glance up at the masthead fly to make sure it's where it ought to be. Chris Campbell My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kool Beans Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:29 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] wind vane Greets everyone,,, Thank you all for the great advice for cleaning my engine compartment. I will be installing a wind vane at the top of the mast and need to know the angle to set the vanes to. The vane comes with a template to adjust the tabs, and can be spread out to 65 degrees max. Does anyone know what the tacking arm angle should be to match the performance of my Cal 2-29? Is there a difference for racing and cruising? What would be a good median? Thanks again for any advice! Happy Sailing Jim Ives - Kool Beans Rochester, NY