Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber

Thanks, Chris. We did discuss it, but I didn't remember the outcome. I was wondering about how the stuff holds up. It is definitely easy to use. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 4:56 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber On 4/19/2014 10:42 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > Hi, All. Was working on a friend's boat mounting some deck hardware to bring lines to cockpit. He had picked up some butyl tape for the sealing. It was easy to work with and seemed to do the trick, but obviously do not yet know whether it lasts and does the anti-leak job over time. I read good words about it. Does anyone have any reports on the butyl stuff? I thought we had a big discussion of this some time back. I had never thought of using the butyl tape but others praised it for its non-drying qualities and gap filling. It seems to me that its deficiency (or maybe its virtue, if you've ever run into renegade 5200) is its relative lack of adhesiveness. It doesn't provide much strength as an adhesive but is great between two fastened surfaces. Or so I recall. I notice that in the used boat reviews, it's common for manufacturers to use it between hull and deck when the two are mechanically fastened. Chris Campbell > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links

Chris, Butyl tape is a sealant, not an adhesive. I used it for mounting my new forward hatch 2 years ago, no problems so far, we'll see. The nuts and bolts are the attachments. And why do we say nuts and bolts instead of bolts and nuts? The bolt is the major part of the fastener system, the nut is the keeper. We've all seen bolts with missing nuts, but if the bolt is gone good luck. David Dobbs, CAL29 with a nice forward hatch On Monday, April 21, 2014 3:58 PM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Thanks, Chris. We did discuss it, but I didn't remember the outcome. I was wondering about how the stuff holds up. It is definitely easy to use. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 4:56 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber On 4/19/2014 10:42 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > Hi, All. Was working on a friend's boat mounting some deck hardware to bring lines to cockpit. He had picked up some butyl tape for the sealing. It was easy to work with and seemed to do the trick, but obviously do not yet know whether it lasts and does the anti-leak job over time. I read good words about it. Does anyone have any reports on the butyl stuff? I thought we had a big discussion of this some time back. I had never thought of using the butyl tape but others praised it for its non-drying qualities and gap filling. It seems to me that its deficiency (or maybe its virtue, if you've ever run into renegade 5200) is its relative lack of adhesiveness. It doesn't provide much strength as an adhesive but is great between two fastened surfaces. Or so I recall. I notice that in the used boat reviews, it's common for manufacturers to use it between hull and deck when the two are mechanically fastened. Chris Campbell > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links

we used it on our ports, at rv stores it even comes in different colors, thicknesses and widths. it doesn't stick, so you have to be sure you have it in place on clean surfaces before fastening. also, we have found you occasionally need to recheck the tightening of the machine screws..we are thinking some mild locktite maybe? Boat US had a Don Casey article page 88 April/May 2013 about re-bedding deck fittings correctly...he uses stuff that wont come off as easily(pro or con to us)such as polysulfide or silicone, but the best part of this article is how to redo around the holes in the deck. a must-read. Helen From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber Chris, Butyl tape is a sealant, not an adhesive. I used it for mounting my new forward hatch 2 years ago, no problems so far, we'll see. The nuts and bolts are the attachments. And why do we say nuts and bolts instead of bolts and nuts? The bolt is the major part of the fastener system, the nut is the keeper. We've all seen bolts with missing nuts, but if the bolt is gone good luck. David Dobbs, CAL29 with a nice forward hatch On Monday, April 21, 2014 3:58 PM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Thanks, Chris. We did discuss it, but I didn't remember the outcome. I was wondering about how the stuff holds up. It is definitely easy to use. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 4:56 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber On 4/19/2014 10:42 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > Hi, All. Was working on a friend's boat mounting some deck hardware to bring lines to cockpit. He had picked up some butyl tape for the sealing. It was easy to work with and seemed to do the trick, but obviously do not yet know whether it lasts and does the anti-leak job over time. I read good words about it. Does anyone have any reports on the butyl stuff? I thought we had a big discussion of this some time back. I had never thought of using the butyl tape but others praised it for its non-drying qualities and gap filling. It seems to me that its deficiency (or maybe its virtue, if you've ever run into renegade 5200) is its relative lack of adhesiveness. It doesn't provide much strength as an adhesive but is great between two fastened surfaces. Or so I recall. I notice that in the used boat reviews, it's common for manufacturers to use it between hull and deck when the two are mechanically fastened. Chris Campbell > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links

On 4/21/2014 4:58 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > Thanks, Chris. We did discuss it, but I didn't remember the outcome. I was wondering about how the stuff holds up. It is definitely easy to use. It must hold up adequately because it's what they use to seat car windshields, I think. That's pretty tough service, with wide temperature swings and lots of relative motion due to different expansion rates and also to inevitable flexing of the car body structure. The bead is thicker in that application, accommodating more movement, but that also gives it more weather exposure. I suppose the real problem is that if there is not a "marine grade" product, they can't charge more for it. Chris Campbell >

All, My new stainless steel opening ports from New Found Metals came with a large roll of black butyl tape. They must think it will last. It was relatively easy to use. I followed directions and made the port cutouts oversize and chamfered edges so the butyl tape would squeeze into the gap. Regards, Duane Knize S/V Marlyn, Cal2-39 #18 On 4/22/2014 6:35 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > On 4/21/2014 4:58 PM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > > Thanks, Chris. We did discuss it, but I didn't remember the outcome. > I was wondering about how the stuff holds up. It is definitely easy to > use. > > It must hold up adequately because it's what they use to seat car > windshields, I think. That's pretty tough service, with wide > temperature swings and lots of relative motion due to different > expansion rates and also to inevitable flexing of the car body > structure. The bead is thicker in that application, accommodating more > movement, but that also gives it more weather exposure. > > I suppose the real problem is that if there is not a "marine grade" > product, they can't charge more for it. > > Chris Campbell > > > >

Definite on the periodic rechecking of fasteners. I do not believe that this is an application for locktite, but rather due to the slow spreading of the Butyl. I replaced the ports on a Sidelman 25 and the tape I had was too thick. I returned to the boat every other day (or so) for a couple of months and took another half to full turn on each fastener. Each time a bit more would squeese out. Port hasn't leaked a drop in 2 years and that boat has been raced pretty hard during that time. Thanks, Craig Johnson To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: he… [at] sbcglobal.net Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 17:07:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber we used it on our ports, at rv stores it even comes in different colors, thicknesses and widths. it doesn't stick, so you have to be sure you have it in place on clean surfaces before fastening. also, we have found you occasionally need to recheck the tightening of the machine screws..we are thinking some mild locktite maybe? Boat US had a Don Casey article page 88 April/May 2013 about re-bedding deck fittings correctly...he uses stuff that wont come off as easily(pro or con to us)such as polysulfide or silicone, but the best part of this article is how to redo around the holes in the deck. a must-read. Helen From: david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber Chris,Butyl tape is a sealant, not an adhesive. I used it for mounting my new forward hatch 2 years ago, no problems so far, we'll see. The nuts and bolts are the attachments. And why do we say nuts and bolts instead of bolts and nuts? The bolt is the major part of the fastener system, the nut is the keeper. We've all seen bolts with missing nuts, but if the bolt is gone good luck.David Dobbs, CAL29 with a nice forward hatch On Monday, April 21, 2014 3:58 PM, "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Thanks, Chris. We did discuss it, but I didn't remember the outcome. I was wondering about how the stuff holds up. It is definitely easy to use. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 4:56 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber On 4/19/2014 10:42 AM, Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE) wrote: > Hi, All. Was working on a friend's boat mounting some deck hardware to bring lines to cockpit. He had picked up some butyl tape for the sealing. It was easy to work with and seemed to do the trick, but obviously do not yet know whether it lasts and does the anti-leak job over time. I read good words about it. Does anyone have any reports on the butyl stuff? I thought we had a big discussion of this some time back. I had never thought of using the butyl tape but others praised it for its non-drying qualities and gap filling. It seems to me that its deficiency (or maybe its virtue, if you've ever run into renegade 5200) is its relative lack of adhesiveness. It doesn't provide much strength as an adhesive but is great between two fastened surfaces. Or so I recall. I notice that in the used boat reviews, it's common for manufacturers to use it between hull and deck when the two are mechanically fastened. Chris Campbell > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links

On 4/23/2014 7:51 AM, Craig Johnson wrote: > > > Definite on the periodic rechecking of fasteners. I do not believe > that this is an application for locktite, but rather due to the slow > spreading of the Butyl. I replaced the ports on a Sidelman 25 and > the tape I had was too thick. I returned to the boat every other day > (or so) for a couple of months and took another half to full turn on > each fastener. Each time a bit more would squeese out. Port hasn't > leaked a drop in 2 years and that boat has been raced pretty hard > during that time. On the other hand, you don't want to squeeze out so much that there's no thickness left. It's the thickness of a sealant that allows it to stretch and compress. I used to apply sealer and then tighten the fasteners with a lot of force, getting a lot of squeeze-out. And a lot of leaks. The better rule is to leave some gasket material. Chris Campbell

what's odd is that the edge I trimmed off last spring when first installed, has been that even though I've tightened the screws almost monthly, is that there is no squeeze-out apparent on the outer edge of the ports. You'd think there would be a growing edge. Helen From: Chris Campbell <cc… [at] lsnm.org> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Butyl Tape/Rubber On 4/23/2014 7:51 AM, Craig Johnson wrote: Definite on the periodic rechecking of fasteners. I do not believe that this is an application for locktite, but rather due to the slow spreading of the Butyl. I replaced the ports on a Sidelman 25 and the tape I had was too thick. I returned to the boat every other day (or so) for a couple of months and took another half to full turn on each fastener. Each time a bit more would squeese out. Port hasn't leaked a drop in 2 years and that boat has been raced pretty hard during that time. > On the other hand, you don't want to squeeze out so much that there's no thickness left. It's the thickness of a sealant that allows it to stretch and compress. I used to apply sealer and then tighten the fasteners with a lot of force, getting a lot of squeeze-out. And a lot of leaks. The better rule is to leave some gasket material. Chris Campbell

I bought a 2-27 with a long-dead Farymann one-lunger in it. Has anyone removed theirs, and if so, how? Seems like I'll have to dismantle the entire galley to get enough vertical clearance to pull it up off the beds and then forward (presumably using a come-along on a temporary fore-aft beam). Is there something I'm missing, an easier way? Would appreciate any advice, pictures, or other 2-27 related wisdom. Thank you, "Happiness", ex-"SeaStar" in Alameda, CA

Adam, Attached are a couple photos from our repower project. As you can see, 2x4's nailed together made a nice running slide to remove the 5411 and to install the new engine. Michael s/v Magic, 1979 Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL From: Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 3:24 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 I bought a 2-27 with a long-dead Farymann one-lunger in it. Has anyone removed theirs, and if so, how? Seems like I'll have to dismantle the entire galley to get enough vertical clearance to pull it up off the beds and then forward (presumably using a come-along on a temporary fore-aft beam). Is there something I'm missing, an easier way? Would appreciate any advice, pictures, or other 2-27 related wisdom. Thank you, "Happiness", ex-"SeaStar" in Alameda, CA

Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael From: "as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

We are just completing a 5411 rebuild. I had it on eBay for $2,500. Also, parting out another 5411. Contact me off the list if you wish. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46, Pensacola, FL From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael From: "as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

Tom The weather channel says you had more rain last night than during Ivan. Everything ok over your way? Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] We are just completing a 5411 rebuild. I had it on eBay for $2,500. Also, parting out another 5411. Contact me off the list if you wish. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46, Pensacola, FL _____ From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) [2 Attachments] [ <https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#TopText> Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael _____ From: "as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

Thanks Janet, Yes we had 26 inches of rain in 24 hours and a lot of lightening. Our ground floor is 13 feet above mean high tide, so no problem as the water in the bayou was about 3 feet above normal, ugly, muddy and a swift current. Satori is fine. The Panga was under the oak tree for work, so leaves and dander plugged the drains and she had about one foot of water over the deck, but no problem on the trailer. We took our young helpers out on the 'toon boat this afternoon to pick up trash around the bayou. We brought some big snags back that Bobbie sees as "yard art".... Okay, she does yard stuff and I do boats. How is our beautiful Cal 25 Bravura? Tom From: Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom The weather channel says you had more rain last night than during Ivan. Everything ok over your way? Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] We are just completing a 5411 rebuild. I had it on eBay for $2,500. Also, parting out another 5411. Contact me off the list if you wish. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46, Pensacola, FL From:Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael From:"as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

Tom Good to hear from you and that you are all doing well. I have some time off coming up so may be in pensacola for a weekend toward the end of this month. I promise to bring some gosling’s for a visit if you are up to it. Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 6:52 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Thanks Janet, Yes we had 26 inches of rain in 24 hours and a lot of lightening. Our ground floor is 13 feet above mean high tide, so no problem as the water in the bayou was about 3 feet above normal, ugly, muddy and a swift current. Satori is fine. The Panga was under the oak tree for work, so leaves and dander plugged the drains and she had about one foot of water over the deck, but no problem on the trailer. We took our young helpers out on the 'toon boat this afternoon to pick up trash around the bayou. We brought some big snags back that Bobbie sees as "yard art".... Okay, she does yard stuff and I do boats. How is our beautiful Cal 25 Bravura? Tom _____ From: Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom The weather channel says you had more rain last night than during Ivan. Everything ok over your way? Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] We are just completing a 5411 rebuild. I had it on eBay for $2,500. Also, parting out another 5411. Contact me off the list if you wish. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46, Pensacola, FL _____ From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) [2 Attachments] [ <https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#TopText> Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael _____ From: "as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

Sounds great. We will be back from SoCal on the 20th. Dark and Stormys sound good. Tom & Bobbie From: Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom Good to hear from you and that you are all doing well. I have some time off coming up so may be in pensacola for a weekend toward the end of this month. I promise to bring some gosling’s for a visit if you are up to it. Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 6:52 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Thanks Janet, Yes we had 26 inches of rain in 24 hours and a lot of lightening. Our ground floor is 13 feet above mean high tide, so no problem as the water in the bayou was about 3 feet above normal, ugly, muddy and a swift current. Satori is fine. The Panga was under the oak tree for work, so leaves and dander plugged the drains and she had about one foot of water over the deck, but no problem on the trailer. We took our young helpers out on the 'toon boat this afternoon to pick up trash around the bayou. We brought some big snags back that Bobbie sees as "yard art".... Okay, she does yard stuff and I do boats. How is our beautiful Cal 25 Bravura? Tom From:Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom The weather channel says you had more rain last night than during Ivan. Everything ok over your way? Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] We are just completing a 5411 rebuild. I had it on eBay for $2,500. Also, parting out another 5411. Contact me off the list if you wish. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46, Pensacola, FL From:Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael From:"as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

After Faryman, 5411's, 26" of rain in 24 hours & ... It is past time for a few Dark & Stormies at the BSH by the bayou looking at our Cal boat. Tom From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2014 3:39 AM Subject: Re: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Sounds great. We will be back from SoCal on the 20th. Dark and Stormys sound good. Tom & Bobbie From: Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom Good to hear from you and that you are all doing well. I have some time off coming up so may be in pensacola for a weekend toward the end of this month. I promise to bring some gosling’s for a visit if you are up to it. Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 6:52 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Thanks Janet, Yes we had 26 inches of rain in 24 hours and a lot of lightening. Our ground floor is 13 feet above mean high tide, so no problem as the water in the bayou was about 3 feet above normal, ugly, muddy and a swift current. Satori is fine. The Panga was under the oak tree for work, so leaves and dander plugged the drains and she had about one foot of water over the deck, but no problem on the trailer. We took our young helpers out on the 'toon boat this afternoon to pick up trash around the bayou. We brought some big snags back that Bobbie sees as "yard art".... Okay, she does yard stuff and I do boats. How is our beautiful Cal 25 Bravura? Tom From:Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom The weather channel says you had more rain last night than during Ivan. Everything ok over your way? Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] We are just completing a 5411 rebuild. I had it on eBay for $2,500. Also, parting out another 5411. Contact me off the list if you wish. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46, Pensacola, FL From:Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael From:"as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

Hello Tom and Bobbie: Diana and i are planning to come to your neck of the woods for the day this Saturday to get some things from her storage shed and to look at 714 Lakewood across the bayou from you. It’s a tear-down but the property looks nice. I am trying to find out how badly it flooded in Ivan. Would love to drop in for a few minutes to see you if you aren’t too busy! Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 3:39 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Sounds great. We will be back from SoCal on the 20th. Dark and Stormys sound good. Tom & Bobbie _____ From: Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom Good to hear from you and that you are all doing well. I have some time off coming up so may be in pensacola for a weekend toward the end of this month. I promise to bring some gosling’s for a visit if you are up to it. Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 6:52 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Thanks Janet, Yes we had 26 inches of rain in 24 hours and a lot of lightening. Our ground floor is 13 feet above mean high tide, so no problem as the water in the bayou was about 3 feet above normal, ugly, muddy and a swift current. Satori is fine. The Panga was under the oak tree for work, so leaves and dander plugged the drains and she had about one foot of water over the deck, but no problem on the trailer. We took our young helpers out on the 'toon boat this afternoon to pick up trash around the bayou. We brought some big snags back that Bobbie sees as "yard art".... Okay, she does yard stuff and I do boats. How is our beautiful Cal 25 Bravura? Tom _____ From: Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom The weather channel says you had more rain last night than during Ivan. Everything ok over your way? Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] We are just completing a 5411 rebuild. I had it on eBay for $2,500. Also, parting out another 5411. Contact me off the list if you wish. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46, Pensacola, FL _____ From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) [2 Attachments] [ <https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#TopText> Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael _____ From: "as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam

Please come and see us! We will check out 714. It is higher than us, so maybe did not flood. We would love to have you have dinner and stay with us. The guest bedroom will be ready. Tom & Bobbie 850 572 5535 From: "'Janet Plume' pl… [at] cox.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 3:32 PM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Hello Tom and Bobbie: Diana and i are planning to come to your neck of the woods for the day this Saturday to get some things from her storage shed and to look at 714 Lakewood across the bayou from you. It’s a tear-down but the property looks nice. I am trying to find out how badly it flooded in Ivan. Would love to drop in for a few minutes to see you if you aren’t too busy! Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 3:39 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Sounds great. We will be back from SoCal on the 20th. Dark and Stormys sound good. Tom & Bobbie From:Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:25 PM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom Good to hear from you and that you are all doing well. I have some time off coming up so may be in pensacola for a weekend toward the end of this month. I promise to bring some gosling’s for a visit if you are up to it. Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 6:52 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Thanks Janet, Yes we had 26 inches of rain in 24 hours and a lot of lightening. Our ground floor is 13 feet above mean high tide, so no problem as the water in the bayou was about 3 feet above normal, ugly, muddy and a swift current. Satori is fine. The Panga was under the oak tree for work, so leaves and dander plugged the drains and she had about one foot of water over the deck, but no problem on the trailer. We took our young helpers out on the 'toon boat this afternoon to pick up trash around the bayou. We brought some big snags back that Bobbie sees as "yard art".... Okay, she does yard stuff and I do boats. How is our beautiful Cal 25 Bravura? Tom From:Janet Plume <pl… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] Tom The weather channel says you had more rain last night than during Ivan. Everything ok over your way? Janet Plume 826 Fern St. New Orleans, LA 70118 Home: 1.504.866.7076 Cell: 1.504.872.4039 Email: pl… [at] cox.net From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Vandiver Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Was [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann Now Universal 5411] We are just completing a 5411 rebuild. I had it on eBay for $2,500. Also, parting out another 5411. Contact me off the list if you wish. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46, Pensacola, FL From:Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Adam, I don't recall, but I may have had to cut the lag bolts off to free the mounts from the stringers. Attached are more photos. Note that I used a hole saw to gain access to replace the engine mount bolts. I used large fender washers on the inside. Once the old 5411 was free, it was surprisingly easy to slide it forward onto the 2x4 rails. I did that without assistance. Once the 5411 was in the salon, I used the main halyard to hoist/winch the engine up through the companion way. Another line was tied to the engine to help keep it from swinging around and to guide it to the dock. Yes, we repowered Magic while in the water including a new propeller shaft. :) Michael From:"as… [at] yahoo.com" <as… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Removing Farymann diesel from 2-27 (Adam) Michael, Thank you, the photos are very instructive! I hadn't considered unscrewing the mounts as well and just sliding the whole works. Much smarter. I assumed the mounts & lag bolts would be frozen/rusted in place and non-negotiable without the engine off. Time to muster the PB Blaster and elbow grease. How easily did the engines slide on and off? I'm thinking I could get away with a boom vang (or come-along, or some other mechanical advantage) rigged to a 2x4 set in front of the v-berth bulkheads to pull the engine out onto the "rails", and something similar setup under the cockpit to pull the replacement engine back onto the beds. Sound about right, or did you do something else? Adam