Fiberglass Advice Needed

All, Magic has a fiberglass molded toe rail. She has some cracks on the port toe rail midship that leak. The fiberglass is very thin there. I tried glassing it from below, but it didn't bond well. I used West epoxy resin. Should I have used polyester resin? Did I not prep it correctly? I sure could use some advice on how to fix the leaky toe rail. Brenda and I are sailing to the Bahamas June 28th, and I would like to make my admiral happy before we depart. Thanks, Michael Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Prep, definitely. (insert brand name here) Epoxy will always form a better secondary bond with old FRP than Polyester will. Some true artists of the craft can make a bond that is functionally equivalent, but rarely will the average Joe be able to achieve results that are so easy to get with Epoxy. Plus Polyester stinks and will make you loopy before you get done working. You may have to really grind in good with 36 grit or a carbide rasp on a multi-tool. Also, if anybody ever tried to seal it up with Silicone Caulk, you're about finished. Nothing will stick to it until you've solvent cleaned and ground and solvent cleaned and ground (and solvent cleaned) about halfway through the material. Silicone is to be avoided on boats if you ever want anything to stick (other than Silicone...) Good Luck. Kris On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 7:06 PM, "'md… [at] yahoo.com' md… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: All, Magic has a fiberglass molded toe rail. She has some cracks on the port toe rail midship that leak. The fiberglass is very thin there. I tried glassing it from below, but it didn't bond well. I used West epoxy resin. Should I have used polyester resin? Did I not prep it correctly? I sure could use some advice on how to fix the leaky toe rail. Brenda and I are sailing to the Bahamas June 28th, and I would like to make my admiral happy before we depart. Thanks, Michael Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On 6/18/2014 1:33 AM, Kris Jensen cr… [at] att.net [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > Prep, definitely. I agree. Every time I try to do some quick-fix repair, it fails. Proper preparation makes things work. Grind or sand back the cracked area; probably use some glass for reinforcement; use the high-strength filler in the epoxy (what is the formal name, fumed silica?). On boats, work from the outside in, the way the water wants to travel. The first step is to get a good mechanical/chemical repair bond, then you can work on the cosmetic aspect. I had a small crack in my Cal 20 deck that began letting water into the deck core. I tried a quick fix last fall (scraped out the crack, applied some epoxy & glass fiber and then gelcoat). It had cracked again by this spring. I chiseled it back much farther and used a lot more glass, then sanded carefully (all this by hand because the boat is not stored near 120 VAC). Then I mixed a little black pigment into some white enamel and painted over, almost matching the deck gelcoat. But the real lesson was that under-ambitious repairs usually don't work very well. I use the Gougeon Bros. WEST System epoxies because they are from my home town and the home port of my other boat, and they and their principal employees are sailors and boat builders. They are innovators and curious people. Chris Campbell > >

To get a good bond you need to roughen the surface then clean with de-waxer solvent. Dan R On Jun 17, 2014 7:06 PM, "'md… [at] yahoo.com' md… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > All, > > Magic has a fiberglass molded toe rail. She has some cracks on the port > toe rail midship that leak. The fiberglass is very thin there. I tried > glassing it from below, but it didn't bond well. I used West epoxy resin. > Should I have used polyester resin? Did I not prep it correctly? > > I sure could use some advice on how to fix the leaky toe rail. Brenda and > I are sailing to the Bahamas June 28th, and I would like to make my admiral > happy before we depart. > > Thanks, > Michael > Cal 2-27 > Pompano Beach, FL > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> > >

Hi, Just joined and this is my first use of the site. I would like to add that the area should be fully de-waxed and cleaned prior to roughening-up. I have heard that you can embed the impurities if the process is reversed. I purchased my '86 Cal 33-2 last fall and really like the boat. The hull # is CABS0071L586. Does this mean that the boat is #71 in the series? Chris > On Jun 18, 2014, at 11:33 AM, "Daniel Richmond da… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > To get a good bond you need to roughen the surface then clean with de-waxer solvent. > Dan R > >> On Jun 17, 2014 7:06 PM, "'md… [at] yahoo.com' md… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: >> >> All, >> >> Magic has a fiberglass molded toe rail. She has some cracks on the port toe rail midship that leak. The fiberglass is very thin there. I tried glassing it from below, but it didn't bond well. I used West epoxy resin. Should I have used polyester resin? Did I not prep it correctly? >> >> I sure could use some advice on how to fix the leaky toe rail. Brenda and I are sailing to the Bahamas June 28th, and I would like to make my admiral happy before we depart. >> >> Thanks, >> Michael >> Cal 2-27 >> Pompano Beach, FL >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> > >

Guys, Thanks for your input. When I originally "repaired" the toe rail, I hastily did the work. At the time, everything looked good, and the leaks were a thing of the past. When leaks returned, I was uncertain of whether I used the wrong epoxy, didn't prep the work properly, or both. After spend many hours cleaning away the previous FRP, I did find that I obviously did not prepare the original FRP, as there were places where the old stuff easily pealed away. As you may know, the molded toe rail is rather narrow. It is not an easy place to access. It's only about an inch wide from below. The FRP was not layed up very thick. I'm guessing that it's only about 1/16" thick where you can see where the cracks & crevices are. Attached is a photo I took of the toe rail last night. The arrows show only a few of the places where I opened the cracks from above. There are places where the gelcoat is/was thicker than the FRP underneath. In order to get in there from below, I purchased a Dremel flexible shaft and am using various tools to clean everything away from below before I begin adding new layers of glass. Where did these cracks come from??? It didn't happen while we have owned her, but since Magic has been a Florida boat all her life, she was probably in my area during hurricane Andrew in 1992. She suffered a few other bumps and bangs that I have found repairs made by a PO. Thanks Everyone! Michael From: "Christopher ra… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Fiberglass Advice Needed Hi, Just joined and this is my first use of the site. I would like to add that the area should be fully de-waxed and cleaned prior to roughening-up. I have heard that you can embed the impurities if the process is reversed. I purchased my '86 Cal 33-2 last fall and really like the boat. The hull # is CABS0071L586. Does this mean that the boat is #71 in the series? Chris On Jun 18, 2014, at 11:33 AM, "Daniel Richmond da… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: >To get a good bond you need to roughen the surface then clean with de-waxer solvent. >Dan R >On Jun 17, 2014 7:06 PM, "'md… [at] yahoo.com' md… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > >> >>All, >>Magic has a fiberglass molded toe rail. She has some cracks on the port toe rail midship that leak. The fiberglass is very thin there. I tried glassing it from below, but it didn't bond well. I used West epoxy resin. Should I have used polyester resin? Did I not prep it correctly? >>I sure could use some advice on how to fix the leaky toe rail. Brenda and I are sailing to the Bahamas June 28th, and I would like to make my admiral happy before we depart. >>Thanks, >>Michael >>Cal 2-27 >>Pompano Beach, FL >>Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On 6/18/2014 7:08 PM, Christopher ra… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > Hi, > Just joined and this is my first use of the site. > I would like to add that the area should be fully de-waxed and cleaned > prior to roughening-up. I have heard that you can embed the impurities > if the process is reversed. > > I purchased my '86 Cal 33-2 last fall and really like the boat. The > hull # is > CABS0071L586. Does this mean that the boat is #71 in the series? > Chris Welcome to the list Chris! But you have already violated a list rule: people named Chris are supposed to own Cal 20s. At one point there were 3 of us and some oddball with a larger boat. Now I get to be the principal cheerleader for the Cal 20. Mine is in the water, by the way, as of about 3 weeks ago, but the mast is still horizontal because I couldn't find a helper to get it stepped. Now I have one and will get things vertical and sail-worthy tonight after work. Chris Campbell Cal 20 no. 1220 /Martha C/ >

On 6/19/2014 8:15 AM, Michael D md… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > Where did these cracks come from??? It didn't happen while we have > owned her, but since Magic has been a Florida boat all her life, she > was probably in my area during hurricane Andrew in 1992. She suffered > a few other bumps and bangs that I have found repairs made by a PO. Most cracks like that come from some sort of stress, and that could either be a one-time event (another boat ran into yours?) or a repeated or a cycling stress. Structural integrity is important in any event (do a good repair) but you need to be more concerned if it appears to be from repeated stress. In that event, things need to be stronger than they were before or the issue will just repeat. You can probably overdo the "stronger" part--if you build up the cracked area to 3/4" thick, and everything around it is 3/16", then your newly rigid repair just moves the stress out to where the repair ends. Your photo makes it look like somebody just poked some goop into the crack. Poking stuff into cracks is rarely successful for very long. I can't tell the scale involved from your photo. If you're adding resin and glass from below, maybe you could use something like foam backer rod to hold it up and in place while the resin sets. Then grind it down from the top, add resin and glass, fair it afterward, and then paint or gelcoat the area. Chris Campbell