Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bilge in aft keel?

4 messages2014-11-25 05:42 UTCthrough 2014-11-25 13:34 UTC

Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bilge in aft keel?

rj… [at] juno.com2014-11-25 05:42 UTC

A standard thru-hull is NOT what we are talking about! The proper fitting is a bronze fitting known as a "Garboard drain", it is a bronze flange with a bronze screw plug in the center, it is secured to the outside of the keel (or hull) using sealant and 3 screws (or bolts if possible). The threaded plug will usually have a square socket for a wrench and the plug will often be sealed with Teflon tape or a removable sealant on the threaded. (Think of a typical drain for an oil pan on a car or truck, basically these are the same idea.) These fittings have been used for many decades on wooden boats to drain the bilge while hauled out and also on many traditional fiberglass boats to prevent a build up of water in the bilge while hauled out. For an example of how these are installed check out several of the projects completed by Tim Lackey up in Maine, http://www.lackeysailing.com/ They can't break off like a typical thru-hull, they are flat against the outside of the keel/hull. For other pictures of these garboard drains, check out the PERKO catalog, or a marine store like WEST Marine, Hamilton Marine, etc. These plugs are often used for the very reason that the area they are draining is unaccessible, allowing these areas to be drained. On my Day Sailer I have a (shudder!) plastic version of this on the transom below the waterline....... guess I could reach that to insert a plug from the outside..... but still? On one of my old boats (a plastic 9' trimaran) I drilled a hole low on each of the 2 out hulls (akas?) about amidships along the keels, to drain them over the winter, each spring I would just squeeze a little silicone sealant into each hole to plug it. These bronze garboard plugs are actually used low on the transom of many powerboats...often under the sterndrive engine...... haven't heard of any of those boats sinking due to that drain flange being torn off or the plug falling out....... OK, a few boats HAVE taken on water when launched without screwing the plug in.... OOPS! but that is not the fault of the drainplug setup. The one thing to watch out for though....... it is OK to install the flange to the side of the keel using 5200 to seal the fitting to the hull (in addition to the screws) and I think it is even highly recommended, but make sure that no overzealous boatyard crew decides to use 5200 when screwing in the plug! That happened this past Spring to a friend of mine..... makes it a bit hard to unscrew the plug in the Fall!! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 was: co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:29:11 -0800 "'Mark Alan Stahnke \(MAS Consulting\)' ma… [at] cox.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: ? I would not recommend putting a thru hull anywhere you cant easily reach with a wooden plug from inside. Doesn't the floor pan and battery box cover the deep keel compartment making it inaccessible? Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. From: Virgalla Robert vi… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bildge in aft keel? Tape.a magnet to.a length of wood approx 1" from the end and with a helper map out the internal profile of the "aft keel" deep bilge on the outside of the hull. Bob Virgalla CAL 2-29 ~~~~_/)~~~~ On Nov 24, 2014, at 17:22, "david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Chris, I hear you. But I have to know where to drill. That's the problem. My 29 has that deep bilge, but I have no idea where that is from the outside. Anyone else with a 29 done that? David Dobbs CAL29 411 On Monday, November 24, 2014 4:08 PM, "ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: On 11/21/2014 8:54 PM, 'Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)' hu… [at] bah.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: I am not a fan of extra holes in the keel of a boat. One more thing to go disastrously wrong, but I suppose that if one will not be visiting one�s boat with any regularity, the hole is a decent solution. I�d do a bronze through-hull with a screw-on cap on the back. Small diameter would be fine. After bailing out the poor Cal 25 that was flooded with a mixture of rainwater, leaves, and antifreeze (what a mess), I'm a much bigger fan of a little hole in the boat. If you install a classic bronze garboard plug, it ain't gonna come out accidentally unless you're a hopeless fool, and you'll be able to leave it open every winter. Then, any water that gets in will get out. If your cover blows off, no big deal. If the cockpit drains get plugged, no big deal. If you end up in the hospital, in jail, or as a hostage, and you can't check your boat, no big deal. I'm sure that the guy who stored that Cal 25 last did not intend for it to fill up with water. But it did. The results were disastrous. I took the boat's spinnaker, found floating in all that goo, home and washed it in the bathtub. Do you know how many rinses it took to get that ethylene glycol out of a big nylon sail? Drill the hole. Chris Campbell Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/547416e67731d16e61b99st04duc

Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bilge in aft keel?

david dobbs2014-11-25 05:56 UTC

Rod,That's exactly what I had in mind, I have a friend with a Tartan 27 who installed one. I think I'll talk to the yard guys about it.David Dobbs CAL29 411 On Monday, November 24, 2014 11:43 PM, "rj… [at] juno.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: A standard thru-hull is NOT what we are talking about! The proper fitting is a bronze fitting known as a "Garboard drain", it is a bronze flange with a bronze screw plug in the center, it is secured to the outside of the keel (or hull) using sealant and 3 screws (or bolts if possible). The threaded plug will usually have a square socket for a wrench and the plug will often be sealed with Teflon tape or a removable sealant on the threaded. (Think of a typical drain for an oil pan on a car or truck, basically these are the same idea.) These fittings have been used for many decades on wooden boats to drain the bilge while hauled out and also on many traditional fiberglass boats to prevent a build up of water in the bilge while hauled out. For an example of how these are installed check out several of the projects completed by Tim Lackey up in Maine, http://www.lackeysailing.com/ They can't break off like a typical thru-hull, they are flat against the outside of the keel/hull. For other pictures of these garboard drains, check out the PERKO catalog, or a marine store like WEST Marine, Hamilton Marine, etc. These plugs are often used for the very reason that the area they are draining is unaccessible, allowing these areas to be drained. On my Day Sailer I have a (shudder!) plastic version of this on the transom below the waterline....... guess I could reach that to insert a plug from the outside..... but still? On one of my old boats (a plastic 9' trimaran) I drilled a hole low on each of the 2 out hulls (akas?) about amidships along the keels, to drain them over the winter, each spring I would just squeeze a little silicone sealant into each hole to plug it. These bronze garboard plugs are actually used low on the transom of many powerboats...often under the sterndrive engine...... haven't heard of any of those boats sinking due to that drain flange being torn off or the plug falling out....... OK, a few boats HAVE taken on water when launched without screwing the plug in.... OOPS! but that is not the fault of the drainplug setup. The one thing to watch out for though....... it is OK to install the flange to the side of the keel using 5200 to seal the fitting to the hull (in addition to the screws) and I think it is even highly recommended, but make sure that no overzealous boatyard crew decides to use 5200 when screwing in the plug! That happened this past Spring to a friend of mine..... makes it a bit hard to unscrew the plug in the Fall!! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"1979 O'DAY DS II #10201was: co-owner of "NODROG"1970 CAL 21 #285 On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:29:11 -0800 "'Mark Alan Stahnke \(MAS Consulting\)' ma… [at] cox.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: I would not recommend putting a thru hull anywhere you cant easily reach with a wooden plug from inside. Doesn't the floor pan and battery box cover the deep keel compartment making it inaccessible? Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: Virgalla Robert vi… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bildge in aft keel? Tape.a magnet to.a length of wood approx 1" from the end and with a helper map out the internal profile of the "aft keel" deep bilge on the outside of the hull. Bob Virgalla CAL 2-29 ~~~~_/)~~~~ On Nov 24, 2014, at 17:22, "david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Chris, I hear you. But I have to know where to drill. That's the problem. My 29 has that deep bilge, but I have no idea where that is from the outside. Anyone else with a 29 done that? David Dobbs CAL29 411 On Monday, November 24, 2014 4:08 PM, "ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: On 11/21/2014 8:54 PM, 'Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)' hu… [at] bah.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: I am not a fan of extra holes in the keel of a boat. One more thing to go disastrously wrong, but I suppose that if one will not be visiting one’s boat with any regularity, the hole is a decent solution. I’d do a bronze through-hull with a screw-on cap on the back. Small diameter would be fine. After bailing out the poor Cal 25 that was flooded with a mixture of rainwater, leaves, and antifreeze (what a mess), I'm a much bigger fan of a little hole in the boat. If you install a classic bronze garboard plug, it ain't gonna come out accidentally unless you're a hopeless fool, and you'll be able to leave it open every winter. Then, any water that gets in will get out. If your cover blows off, no big deal. If the cockpit drains get plugged, no big deal. If you end up in the hospital, in jail, or as a hostage, and you can't check your boat, no big deal. I'm sure that the guy who stored that Cal 25 last did not intend for it to fill up with water. But it did. The results were disastrous. I took the boat's spinnaker, found floating in all that goo, home and washed it in the bathtub. Do you know how many rinses it took to get that ethylene glycol out of a big nylon sail? Drill the hole. Chris Campbell Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. DiabetesProtocol.com

Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bilge in aft keel?

Adam2014-11-25 06:06 UTC

Yes, a garboard plug, that was what my guy at the NJ boatyard installed on a number of boats. A google image search shows plenty of examples installed on keel sumps. I like the magnet idea for locating a spot, if you can easily get a right angle drill down there like this person did. Installing Garboard Drain | | | | | | | | | | | Installing Garboard DrainEver since I acquired Early Light I had wanted to install a garboard drain plug in the bilge. | | | | View on www.oocities.org | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | From: "rj… [at] juno.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bilge in aft keel? A standard thru-hull is NOT what we are talking about! The proper fitting is a bronze fitting known as a "Garboard drain", it is a bronze flange with a bronze screw plug in the center, it is secured to the outside of the keel (or hull) using sealant and 3 screws (or bolts if possible). The threaded plug will usually have a square socket for a wrench and the plug will often be sealed with Teflon tape or a removable sealant on the threaded. (Think of a typical drain for an oil pan on a car or truck, basically these are the same idea.) These fittings have been used for many decades on wooden boats to drain the bilge while hauled out and also on many traditional fiberglass boats to prevent a build up of water in the bilge while hauled out. For an example of how these are installed check out several of the projects completed by Tim Lackey up in Maine, http://www.lackeysailing.com/ They can't break off like a typical thru-hull, they are flat against the outside of the keel/hull. For other pictures of these garboard drains, check out the PERKO catalog, or a marine store like WEST Marine, Hamilton Marine, etc. These plugs are often used for the very reason that the area they are draining is unaccessible, allowing these areas to be drained. On my Day Sailer I have a (shudder!) plastic version of this on the transom below the waterline....... guess I could reach that to insert a plug from the outside..... but still? On one of my old boats (a plastic 9' trimaran) I drilled a hole low on each of the 2 out hulls (akas?) about amidships along the keels, to drain them over the winter, each spring I would just squeeze a little silicone sealant into each hole to plug it. These bronze garboard plugs are actually used low on the transom of many powerboats...often under the sterndrive engine...... haven't heard of any of those boats sinking due to that drain flange being torn off or the plug falling out....... OK, a few boats HAVE taken on water when launched without screwing the plug in.... OOPS! but that is not the fault of the drainplug setup. The one thing to watch out for though....... it is OK to install the flange to the side of the keel using 5200 to seal the fitting to the hull (in addition to the screws) and I think it is even highly recommended, but make sure that no overzealous boatyard crew decides to use 5200 when screwing in the plug! That happened this past Spring to a friend of mine..... makes it a bit hard to unscrew the plug in the Fall!! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"1979 O'DAY DS II #10201was: co-owner of "NODROG"1970 CAL 21 #285 On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:29:11 -0800 "'Mark Alan Stahnke \(MAS Consulting\)' ma… [at] cox.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: I would not recommend putting a thru hull anywhere you cant easily reach with a wooden plug from inside. Doesn't the floor pan and battery box cover the deep keel compartment making it inaccessible? Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original. ----- Original Message ----- From: Virgalla Robert vi… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bildge in aft keel? Tape.a magnet to.a length of wood approx 1" from the end and with a helper map out the internal profile of the "aft keel" deep bilge on the outside of the hull. Bob Virgalla CAL 2-29 ~~~~_/)~~~~ On Nov 24, 2014, at 17:22, "david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Chris, I hear you. But I have to know where to drill. That's the problem. My 29 has that deep bilge, but I have no idea where that is from the outside. Anyone else with a 29 done that? David Dobbs CAL29 411 On Monday, November 24, 2014 4:08 PM, "ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: On 11/21/2014 8:54 PM, 'Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)' hu… [at] bah.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: I am not a fan of extra holes in the keel of a boat. One more thing to go disastrously wrong, but I suppose that if one will not be visiting one’s boat with any regularity, the hole is a decent solution. I’d do a bronze through-hull with a screw-on cap on the back. Small diameter would be fine. After bailing out the poor Cal 25 that was flooded with a mixture of rainwater, leaves, and antifreeze (what a mess), I'm a much bigger fan of a little hole in the boat. If you install a classic bronze garboard plug, it ain't gonna come out accidentally unless you're a hopeless fool, and you'll be able to leave it open every winter. Then, any water that gets in will get out. If your cover blows off, no big deal. If the cockpit drains get plugged, no big deal. If you end up in the hospital, in jail, or as a hostage, and you can't check your boat, no big deal. I'm sure that the guy who stored that Cal 25 last did not intend for it to fill up with water. But it did. The results were disastrous. I took the boat's spinnaker, found floating in all that goo, home and washed it in the bathtub. Do you know how many rinses it took to get that ethylene glycol out of a big nylon sail? Drill the hole. Chris Campbell Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. DiabetesProtocol.com

Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bilge in aft keel?

Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)2014-11-25 13:34 UTC

I would be concerned about the thickness of the fiberglas for the countersink in the article. I was thinking about a beveled fitting with a wood or Star-Board backing plate. Take Care Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 1:06 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [External] Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bilge in aft keel? Yes, a garboard plug, that was what my guy at the NJ boatyard installed on a number of boats. A google image search shows plenty of examples installed on keel sumps. I like the magnet idea for locating a spot, if you can easily get a right angle drill down there like this person did. <http://www.oocities.org/earlylight160b/InstallGarboardDrain.html> Installing Garboard Drain<http://www.oocities.org/earlylight160b/InstallGarboardDrain.html> [image]<http://www.oocities.org/earlylight160b/InstallGarboardDrain.html> Installing Garboard Drain<http://www.oocities.org/earlylight160b/InstallGarboardDrain.html> Ever since I acquired Early Light I had wanted to install a garboard drain plug in the bilge. View on www.oocities.org<http://www.oocities.org/earlylight160b/InstallGarboardDrain.html> Preview by Yahoo From: "rj… [at] juno.com [Cal_Boats]<mailto:rj… [at] juno.com%20[Cal_Boats]>" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 229: Drain plug for deep bilge in aft keel? A standard thru-hull is NOT what we are talking about! The proper fitting is a bronze fitting known as a "Garboard drain", it is a bronze flange with a bronze screw plug in the center, it is secured to the outside of the keel (or hull) using sealant and 3 screws (or bolts if possible). The threaded plug will usually have a square socket for a wrench and the plug will often be sealed with Teflon tape or a removable sealant on the threaded. (Think of a typical drain for an oil pan on a car or truck, basically these are the same idea.) These fittings have been used for many decades on wooden boats to drain the bilge while hauled out and also on many traditional fiberglass boats to prevent a build up of water in the bilge while hauled out. For an example of how these are installed check out several of the projects completed by Tim Lackey up in Maine, http://www.lackeysailing.com/ They can't break off like a typical thru-hull, they are flat against the outside of the keel/hull. For other pictures of these garboard drains, check out the PERKO catalog, or a marine store like WEST Marine, Hamilton Marine, etc. These plugs are often used for the very reason that the area they are draining is unaccessible, allowing these areas to be drained. On my Day Sailer I have a (shudder!) plastic version of this on the transom below the waterline....... guess I could reach that to insert a plug from the outside..... but still? On one of my old boats (a plastic 9' trimaran) I drilled a hole low on each of the 2 out hulls (akas?) about amidships along the keels, to drain them over the winter, each spring I would just squeeze a little silicone sealant into each hole to plug it. These bronze garboard plugs are actually used low on the transom of many powerboats...often under the sterndrive engine...... haven't heard of any of those boats sinking due to that drain flange being torn off or the plug falling out....... OK, a few boats HAVE taken on water when launched without screwing the plug in.... OOPS! but that is not the fault of the drainplug setup. The one thing to watch out for though....... it is OK to install the flange to the side of the keel using 5200 to seal the fitting to the hull (in addition to the screws) and I think it is even highly recommended, but make sure that no overzealous boatyard crew decides to use 5200 when screwing in the plug! That happened this past Spring to a friend of mine..... makes it a bit hard to unscrew the plug in the Fall!! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 was: co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 17:29:11 -0800 "'Mark Alan Stahnke \(MAS Consulting\)' ma… [at] cox.net<mailto:ma… [at] cox.net> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> writes: I would not recommend putting a thru hull anywhere you cant easily reach with a wooden plug from inside. Doesn't the floor pan and battery box cover the deep keel compartment making it inaccessible? Mark A. Stahnke MAS Consulting (310) 832-5992 The information in this electronic mail transmission covered by the electronic communications privacy act (18 USC Sections 2510-2521) is confidential and intended to be sent only to the stated recipient(s) of the transmission. It may therefore be protected from unauthorized use or dissemination by client/attorney work-product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. You are also asked to notify us immediately by telephone and to delete/destroy the original.