storm losses

Notice the video, showing pfds going to crew after the video was half over. What is with boaters too proud or too cool to wear their pfds? No matter how good a swimmer you are, if you're unconscious, you can't swim. And if you are wearing it, you won't have to swim around looking for flotation to share. Fortunately two people were lucky enough to find a cushion to hold. Another law because some are in denial? My crew wear one or they're not on my boat. Helen Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On 4/28/2015 12:27 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > > Notice the video, showing pfds going to crew after the video was half > over. What is with boaters too proud or too cool to wear their pfds? > No matter how good a swimmer you are, if you're unconscious, you can't > swim. And if you are wearing it, you won't have to swim around looking > for flotation to share. Fortunately two people were lucky enough to > find a cushion to hold. Another law because some are in denial? My > crew wear one or they're not on my boat. Helen > This is always one of those big-brawl topics. Just the other night I read a column in /Sailing/ magazine in which the author said "all the time for me." His point was that modern PFDs are so compact and usable that there's really no excuse not to wear one. He told a story of going overboard unexpectedly (it always is, isn't it?) as a younger person, in good safe conditions, and learning the lesson. Me, I tend to wear one when I think I'll need it. Often in the spring when the water is still very cold in the Great Lakes. Any time there is a suggestion of need--a storm coming, other exigencies. Maybe not so much on a sunny summer day with light wind, especially on my other boat that sails mostly in a shallower bay with warmer summer water temps. Our schooner crew is required to wear them at night. On that boat, night sailing is likely to be out on the open Lakes, where we all welcome the additional warmth anyway. The saying when we train new crew is that the coldest you'll ever be is in the middle of the summer in the middle of Lake Michigan in the middle of the night. Been there, felt it. I will also wear one when I feel that another person aboard ought to be wearing one. Instead of saying "you're disabled or impaired, put one on," I'll just do it myself and make everybody else do so. Chris Campbell

We do not need a law regarding life jackets. Why do people want more and more laws? Just be responsible for your own actions. Leslie "Puffin" On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Notice the video, showing pfds going to crew after the video was half > over. What is with boaters too proud or too cool to wear their pfds? No > matter how good a swimmer you are, if you're unconscious, you can't swim. > And if you are wearing it, you won't have to swim around looking for > flotation to share. Fortunately two people were lucky enough to find a > cushion to hold. Another law because some are in denial? My crew wear one > or they're not on my boat. Helen > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> > > >

....Amen to that Leslie. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:08 AM, NEWMAN d2… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > We do not need a law regarding life jackets. Why do people want more and > more laws? Just be responsible for your own actions. > Leslie > "Puffin" > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net > [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> Notice the video, showing pfds going to crew after the video was half >> over. What is with boaters too proud or too cool to wear their pfds? No >> matter how good a swimmer you are, if you're unconscious, you can't swim. >> And if you are wearing it, you won't have to swim around looking for >> flotation to share. Fortunately two people were lucky enough to find a >> cushion to hold. Another law because some are in denial? My crew wear one >> or they're not on my boat. Helen >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> >> >> > >

On 4/29/2015 11:08 AM, NEWMAN d2… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > We do not need a law regarding life jackets. Why do people want more > and more laws? Just be responsible for your own actions. There is a difference between "needing a law" and having a discussion about safe and wise practices. I don't understand anybody on the list is advocating laws. But I do understand that quite a few sailors regard wearing PFDs as mandatory for rational people. I respect that position, even if I do not adopt it personally. Me? I tend to evaluate all conditions--boat type, sea state, wind, air and water temperature, location--and then make a judgment about whether to wear a PFD. A similar question arises with helmets and iceboats. They're mandatory in races, because rational people recognize the inherent danger. I wear a helmet all the time in the iceboat and in fact landed on it once when my boat flipped. My dad, a physician, had bought the helmet long before there was any requirement of wearing one because he saw the danger. Same goes for bicycles. I started wearing one after my second trip over the handlebars. Slow learner. Actually, it was after the two trips over PLUS reading an article about the high percentage of bicycle deaths resulting from head trauma. I ride in the streets and roads and always--always--wear a helmet. Michigan made helmets optional for motorcycles. It's a sort of IQ test. The helmet-less riders tell the rest of us something about their intelligence. The more information we have, the better our choices. That's why I support discussions about PFD use. Chris Campbell

right, that is exactly my point! That if enough people drown due to failure to use pfds (especially when the skipper fails to make pfds or the access to them available before leaving the dock) when it is obvious as in rough seas or approaching storm conditions, the "protect the fools from themselves" mentality sets in and legislation "happens". Helen Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From:"NEWMAN d2… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date:Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 8:33 AM Subject:Re: [Cal_Boats] storm losses We do not need a law regarding life jackets. Why do people want more and more laws? Just be responsible for your own actions. Leslie "Puffin" On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Notice the video, showing pfds going to crew after the video was half over. What is with boaters too proud or too cool to wear their pfds? No matter how good a swimmer you are, if you're unconscious, you can't swim. And if you are wearing it, you won't have to swim around looking for flotation to share. Fortunately two people were lucky enough to find a cushion to hold. Another law because some are in denial? My crew wear one or they're not on my boat. Helen Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

....along with more fees, another training class or certification process, more enforcement personnel. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > right, that is exactly my point! That if enough people drown due to > failure to use pfds (especially when the skipper fails to make pfds or the > access to them available before leaving the dock) when it is obvious as in > rough seas or approaching storm conditions, the "protect the fools from > themselves" mentality sets in and legislation "happens". Helen > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> > ------------------------------ > *From*:"NEWMAN d2… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Date*:Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 8:33 AM > *Subject*:Re: [Cal_Boats] storm losses > > > > We do not need a law regarding life jackets. Why do people want more and > more laws? Just be responsible for your own actions. > Leslie > "Puffin" > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net > [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> Notice the video, showing pfds going to crew after the video was half >> over. What is with boaters too proud or too cool to wear their pfds? No >> matter how good a swimmer you are, if you're unconscious, you can't swim. >> And if you are wearing it, you won't have to swim around looking for >> flotation to share. Fortunately two people were lucky enough to find a >> cushion to hold. Another law because some are in denial? My crew wear one >> or they're not on my boat. Helen >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> >> >> > >

objectively consider these issues: floating bodies(dead or alive) are more quickly located. "we" expect the search and rescue efforts of the coast guard or harbor patrols, an "entitlement," costs of time spent and rescuers life risk, at the expense of the general tax paying public, not necessarily boaters. When these laws are created, it costs more money to enforce, for sure. However, some justification is seen in that some boaters will then reduce the need for these heroic efforts, some insurance companies will (Ha ha) cut costs due to unlawful behavior, and as in motorcycle helmetless head injury survivors? and the tobacco "victims" that cost unfathomable amounts of medical expenses, quite often at the taxpayers expense. So to oversimplify, who likes paying for others stupidity? (I personally also hate ridiculous and hardly enforceable laws)..Helen Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From:"'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date:Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:16 AM Subject:Re: [Cal_Boats] storm losses ....along with more fees, another training class or certification process, more enforcement personnel. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: right, that is exactly my point! That if enough people drown due to failure to use pfds (especially when the skipper fails to make pfds or the access to them available before leaving the dock) when it is obvious as in rough seas or approaching storm conditions, the "protect the fools from themselves" mentality sets in and legislation "happens". Helen Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From:"NEWMAN d2… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date:Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 8:33 AM Subject:Re: [Cal_Boats] storm losses We do not need a law regarding life jackets. Why do people want more and more laws? Just be responsible for your own actions. Leslie "Puffin" On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Notice the video, showing pfds going to crew after the video was half over. What is with boaters too proud or too cool to wear their pfds? No matter how good a swimmer you are, if you're unconscious, you can't swim. And if you are wearing it, you won't have to swim around looking for flotation to share. Fortunately two people were lucky enough to find a cushion to hold. Another law because some are in denial? My crew wear one or they're not on my boat. Helen Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

I won't type a novel because if everyone is similar to me, after a paragraph I lose interest in a post. Probably due to my age my mind starts to wander. My thinking is, laws are not going to make stupid people smarter. If they are too dumb to wear a jacket when the need arises I doubt they know the laws or will abide by them. And they should be in charge of themselves. I am an avid cyclist (cycle many centuries fast, sub 5 hours). I wear a helmet. Have been wearing one since 1990 when I got into mountain biking, then road cycling. It's my choice. One guy in our group doesn't. We tell him he's an idiot. He says he feels fine without. We say good luck with that. Leslie On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > objectively consider these issues: floating bodies(dead or alive) are more > quickly located. "we" expect the search and rescue efforts of the coast > guard or harbor patrols, an "entitlement," costs of time spent and rescuers > life risk, at the expense of the general tax paying public, not necessarily > boaters. When these laws are created, it costs more money to enforce, for > sure. However, some justification is seen in that > some boaters will then reduce the need for these heroic efforts, some > insurance companies will (Ha ha) cut costs due to unlawful behavior, and as > in motorcycle helmetless head injury survivors? and the tobacco "victims" > that cost unfathomable amounts of medical expenses, quite often at the > taxpayers expense. So to oversimplify, who likes paying for others > stupidity? (I personally also hate ridiculous and hardly enforceable > laws)..Helen > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> > ------------------------------ > *From*:"'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Date*:Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:16 AM > *Subject*:Re: [Cal_Boats] storm losses > > > > ....along with more fees, another training class or certification process, > more enforcement personnel. > > Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net > [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> right, that is exactly my point! That if enough people drown due to >> failure to use pfds (especially when the skipper fails to make pfds or the >> access to them available before leaving the dock) when it is obvious as in >> rough seas or approaching storm conditions, the "protect the fools from >> themselves" mentality sets in and legislation "happens". Helen >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> >> ------------------------------ >> *From*:"NEWMAN d2… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Date*:Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 8:33 AM >> *Subject*:Re: [Cal_Boats] storm losses >> >> >> >> We do not need a law regarding life jackets. Why do people want more and >> more laws? Just be responsible for your own actions. >> Leslie >> "Puffin" >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net >> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Notice the video, showing pfds going to crew after the video was half >>> over. What is with boaters too proud or too cool to wear their pfds? No >>> matter how good a swimmer you are, if you're unconscious, you can't swim. >>> And if you are wearing it, you won't have to swim around looking for >>> flotation to share. Fortunately two people were lucky enough to find a >>> cushion to hold. Another law because some are in denial? My crew wear one >>> or they're not on my boat. Helen >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> >>> >>> >> > >