PFDs and helmets

I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. David Dobbs CAL29 411

The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on a boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon after. And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my marina. I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and hands. Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of me. I don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My helmet was in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. When I replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated one. I would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without a helmet. Allen On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't > wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. > It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an > Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and > clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them > on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The > boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, > but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since > forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us > against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear > one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > >

On 4/29/2015 8:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I > don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, > put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I > crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were > in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said > "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed > well in the standings. The boat rule was crew safety first, then boat > safety. i don't race anymore, but the boat continues to win. As to > helmets, I've been riding bikes since forever, and will not wear one. > It's another invention of the ":protect us against everything lobby." > If you're a racer, then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just > cruising on the local bike path, no way. > David Dobbs CAL29 411 Dave: I've been over the handlebars twice. Once it was in a collision with a car. I had the right-of-way but cars are much bigger. The second time was the result of stupidity (carrying had saw; saw flipped in the wind into the front wheel spokes). It was just after that when I read the statistics on head trauma and bicycle deaths. The data are impressive. I wear my helmet ALWAYS. My prior post noted that I had been protected by a helmet in an iceboat flip--landed on my head and hand. Hand required surgery; head did not. Then three years ago or so I was riding back from sailing and turned into my alley--clipped a curb--sprawled on the pavement. Head OK; the other hand required surgery. I'm on the bicycle a lot. I commute a short distance to work (1 mile) year-round and commute to the sailboat in the summer (1.5 mi.), all on the streets. The helmet is a simple way to increase personal safety. My experience has been that accidents are either personal error (2x for me) or other driver error (1x, but lots of close calls) or just bad luck (the iceboat flip). All of those things happened so fast that I hardly had time to think "Oh shit." I don't advocate for laws necessarily, but I get evangelical on the subject of protecting yourself by simple and effective practices. I enjoy life and seek to extend mine as long as possible in functional condition. I don't want to sit in a wheelchair (or worse) and watch other people have fun. My father, a physician and surgeon, started having seat belts installed in his cars before the manufacturers included them. He had seen what happened to human bodies in collisions. He knew what self-deluding crap people believed--"it's better to be thrown clear," etc. (Have you ever heard a description of what happens to your scalp when your head goes partway through the windshield?) And so we kids never really questioned his wisdom on this one (hard to believe, but true). Maybe that's where I adopted the view that if there's a simple way to avoid a significant risk of major harm, rational people do it. It's a matter of balancing risk and protection. The safest thing would be to stay off the bicycle and never go sailing, etc. But that would be a dull life. So I ride the bike and sail on water, both soft and hard. I just try to diminish the reasonably anticipated risks that are easily managed. Life is sweet. I want to be like Olin Stephens, still sailing at 100. Chris Campbell

Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would have killed him. My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in the creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off the boat on hot summer days. My main point of this is with small kids, test the life jacket. The coast guard approved rating does not mean as much as you might think. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on a > boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto > inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye > level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl > weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon > after. > > And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my marina. > I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and hands. > Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of me. I > don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My helmet was > in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. When I > replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated one. I > would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without a > helmet. > > Allen > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com > [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't >> wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. >> It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an >> Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and >> clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them >> on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The >> boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, >> but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since >> forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us >> against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear >> one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. >> David Dobbs CAL29 411 >> >> >> > >

Thank you, a very valuable post to read. I would never have guessed and I look forward to having Grandkids on the boat….. Wilkie > On Apr 30, 2015, at 7:47 AM, 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. > > The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. > > So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. > > Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would have killed him. > My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in the creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off the boat on hot summer days. >

Chris, You may remember that you and I had an exchange on this topic maybe 20 years ago. I agree with your well stated views below. I’ve survived a lot of crashes on motorcycles (years of National level road racing and over 40 years of street riding) and bicycle crashes (commuting 15-20 miles each way a couple of days a week for 25 years, touring in 14 countries). I believe there are a dozen times I would have been dead without a helmet, always wear one on any two wheel vehicle, advocate for others wearing helmets, and oppose mandatory helmet laws. When California was making motorcycle helmets mandatory I wrote a letter published in the local paper in response to their editorial supporting the law. Their argument, which I saw made in this thread, is that unhelmeted riders cost the public money when they get hurt. I asked the editors when their column would advocate for outlawing liquor and smoking, eating unhealthy diets, and making exercise mandatory. All those things cost the public more, by orders of magnitude, yet the paper didn’t call for legislation. I suggested that I would oppose the government telling us what’s best in all those situations, but by publishing those the paper would show that they were really looking out for the taxpayer’s pocket and not just picking on easily singled out groups like motorcyclists (and in the present case those rich yachties). I made two Atlantic crossings in the 80s as paid crew with a professional and very experienced Captain. We delivered large well equipped cruising sail boats with a crew of five. Even at night in the middle of the ocean we had people alone on watch with no life jacket and not tethered. Seems crazy now. On autopilot the boat would have happily sailed or motored on for hours if the watchstander had fallen overboard with no one aware and little chance of finding and recovering the victim. One thing that worries me about the helmet laws for under 18 is that I see families out riding their bikes with the kids wearing helmets and parents not. You can almost hear the kids thinking I can hardly wait to be a grownup so I don’t have to wear a helmet. I don’t blame the law, I blame the parents. To echo your thoughts: take risks! Take precautions! George From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 7:18 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets On 4/29/2015 8:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:tm… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats] wrote: I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. David Dobbs CAL29 411 Dave: I've been over the handlebars twice. Once it was in a collision with a car. I had the right-of-way but cars are much bigger. The second time was the result of stupidity (carrying had saw; saw flipped in the wind into the front wheel spokes). It was just after that when I read the statistics on head trauma and bicycle deaths. The data are impressive. I wear my helmet ALWAYS. My prior post noted that I had been protected by a helmet in an iceboat flip--landed on my head and hand. Hand required surgery; head did not. Then three years ago or so I was riding back from sailing and turned into my alley--clipped a curb--sprawled on the pavement. Head OK; the other hand required surgery. I'm on the bicycle a lot. I commute a short distance to work (1 mile) year-round and commute to the sailboat in the summer (1.5 mi.), all on the streets. The helmet is a simple way to increase personal safety. My experience has been that accidents are either personal error (2x for me) or other driver error (1x, but lots of close calls) or just bad luck (the iceboat flip). All of those things happened so fast that I hardly had time to think "Oh shit." I don't advocate for laws necessarily, but I get evangelical on the subject of protecting yourself by simple and effective practices. I enjoy life and seek to extend mine as long as possible in functional condition. I don't want to sit in a wheelchair (or worse) and watch other people have fun. My father, a physician and surgeon, started having seat belts installed in his cars before the manufacturers included them. He had seen what happened to human bodies in collisions. He knew what self-deluding crap people believed--"it's better to be thrown clear," etc. (Have you ever heard a description of what happens to your scalp when your head goes partway through the windshield?) And so we kids never really questioned his wisdom on this one (hard to believe, but true). Maybe that's where I adopted the view that if there's a simple way to avoid a significant risk of major harm, rational people do it. It's a matter of balancing risk and protection. The safest thing would be to stay off the bicycle and never go sailing, etc. But that would be a dull life. So I ride the bike and sail on water, both soft and hard. I just try to diminish the reasonably anticipated risks that are easily managed. Life is sweet. I want to be like Olin Stephens, still sailing at 100. Chris Campbell

Jim - I just forwarded your email to our club! Thanks for the heads up (no pun intended . . . well okay maybe it was, I can't help myself). Seriously, that is a scary realization that USCG Approved doesn't necessarily mean "safe" and so glad you realized this when you were able to do something about it! Fair winds - Paul West Adventure Kwest Cal 39 on the Chesapeake From: 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2015 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would have killed him. My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in the creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off the boat on hot summer days. My main point of this is with small kids, test the life jacket. The coast guard approved rating does not mean as much as you might think. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on a boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon after. And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my marina. I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and hands. Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of me. I don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My helmet was in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. When I replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated one. I would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without a helmet. Allen On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. David Dobbs CAL29 411

I appreciate the feedback. I post this where appropriate about once a year. In fairness to the coast guard, the numbers on child accidents are very low, so I understand their not being too interested, but I was under the impression that if within the height and weight range of the vest, everything would be ok ---that was false and that is why I share this. My guess is the issue I ran into is the 1% kind of thing. Just a quick test in a pool would get rid of any ambiguity. Jim, East Coast Cal 29 sailor On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:42 PM, pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Jim - > > I just forwarded your email to our club! Thanks for the heads up (no > pun intended . . . well okay maybe it was, I can't help myself). > Seriously, that is a scary realization that USCG Approved doesn't > necessarily mean "safe" and so glad you realized this when you were able to > do something about it! > > Fair winds - > > Paul West > Adventure Kwest > Cal 39 on the Chesapeake > > > -----Original Message----- > From: 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2015 10:47 am > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets > > > Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w > children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the > pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands > when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type > III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the > size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap > that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long > story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me > was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped > in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I > got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no > wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. > > The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short > legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my > college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no > response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. > After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these > approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they > knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were > tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I > offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. > > So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are > wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine > when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this > jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. > > Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would > have killed him. > My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in > the creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the > ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so > they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My > goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and > getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will > have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off > the boat on hot summer days. > > My main point of this is with small kids, test the life jacket. > The coast guard approved rating does not mean as much as you might > think. > > Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor. > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com > [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >> >> The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on >> a boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto >> inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye >> level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl >> weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon >> after. >> >> And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my >> marina. I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and >> hands. Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of >> me. I don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My >> helmet was in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. >> When I replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated >> one. I would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without >> a helmet. >> >> Allen >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com >> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I >>> don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em >>> on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an >>> Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and >>> clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them >>> on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The >>> boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, >>> but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since >>> forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us >>> against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear >>> one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. >>> David Dobbs CAL29 411 >>> >>> >>> >> > >

On 4/30/2015 11:53 AM, 'Elwers, George A.' ge… [at] saic.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > > One thing that worries me about the helmet laws for under 18 is that I > see families out riding their bikes with the kids wearing helmets and > parents not. You can almost hear the kids thinking I can hardly wait > to be a grownup so I don’t have to wear a helmet. I don’t blame the > law, I blame the parents. > Good follow-up, George. My thought is that it's more important to talk about these things than to agree on them. Our state and local politics are so polarized now that people don't talk about policy. That's everybody's loss. Respectful debate is the best way to figure out what we think, and why, and maybe to modify our thinking. Or maybe not, but at least you can remain on freindly terms with people who hold different notions. You're absolutely right about the parental example. I see the same phenomenon--kids in helmets, parents not, and wonder why dad and mom can't figure out the message they're sending. It reminds me of chartering once in the BVI. Out we sailed, and a non-sailing relative got sick within 1/2 hour. Her husband announced loudly that he wasn't seasick and he wasn't going to put any patches on, blah blah blah. Me, I didn't want to deal with a seasick crew member, so I said, "I think I'll put a patch on." And the others did too, including the one who'd been over the rail. It solved the problem. We had fun after that. Set a good example! My other boat goes in on May 11, and the Cal 20 will go in either before or after, depending on alignments of the stars and schedules. On the other boat, I may wear the PFD for a couple weeks while the water is warming up. On the Cal 20 I'm likely to wear one quite a bit longer because (1) the water is much deeper and colder, and (2) there's a "tiller tamer" friction device (love it) on the tiller and if I go overboard, the boat sails on her merry way. On either vessel, the PFD will deliver a floating corpse at least--I often sail single-handed, and getting back aboard would be extremely challenging. That deserves attention but we'll worry about it tomorrow. Chris Campbell > > To echo your thoughts: take risks! Take precautions! > > George > > *From:*Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 7:18 AM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets > > On 4/29/2015 8:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com > <mailto:tm… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I > don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the > crew, put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions > are. When I crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was > after dark you were in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if > the captain said "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were > pretty good, placed well in the standings. The boat rule was crew > safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, but the > boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes > since forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of > the ":protect us against everything lobby." If you're a racer, > then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just cruising on the > local bike path, no way. > > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > Dave: > > I've been over the handlebars twice. Once it was in a collision with > a car. I had the right-of-way but cars are much bigger. The second > time was the result of stupidity (carrying had saw; saw flipped in the > wind into the front wheel spokes). It was just after that when I read > the statistics on head trauma and bicycle deaths. The data are > impressive. I wear my helmet ALWAYS. My prior post noted that I had > been protected by a helmet in an iceboat flip--landed on my head and > hand. Hand required surgery; head did not. Then three years ago or > so I was riding back from sailing and turned into my alley--clipped a > curb--sprawled on the pavement. Head OK; the other hand required surgery. > > I'm on the bicycle a lot. I commute a short distance to work (1 mile) > year-round and commute to the sailboat in the summer (1.5 mi.), all on > the streets. The helmet is a simple way to increase personal safety. > My experience has been that accidents are either personal error (2x > for me) or other driver error (1x, but lots of close calls) or just > bad luck (the iceboat flip). All of those things happened so fast > that I hardly had time to think "Oh shit." > > I don't advocate for laws necessarily, but I get evangelical on the > subject of protecting yourself by simple and effective practices. I > enjoy life and seek to extend mine as long as possible in functional > condition. I don't want to sit in a wheelchair (or worse) and watch > other people have fun. > > My father, a physician and surgeon, started having seat belts > installed in his cars before the manufacturers included them. He had > seen what happened to human bodies in collisions. He knew what > self-deluding crap people believed--"it's better to be thrown clear," > etc. (Have you ever heard a description of what happens to your scalp > when your head goes partway through the windshield?) And so we kids > never really questioned his wisdom on this one (hard to believe, but > true). Maybe that's where I adopted the view that if there's a simple > way to avoid a significant risk of major harm, rational people do it. > It's a matter of balancing risk and protection. The safest thing > would be to stay off the bicycle and never go sailing, etc. But that > would be a dull life. So I ride the bike and sail on water, both soft > and hard. I just try to diminish the reasonably anticipated risks > that are easily managed. > > Life is sweet. I want to be like Olin Stephens, still sailing at 100. > > Chris Campbell > > > >

In more fairness to the Coast Guard, the following may shed some light. I used to work in the General Counsel’s office at the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) and had a number of communications with the Coast Guard about whether some particular product was a consumer product subject to CPSC jurisdiction or was an item of boat equipment that could be regulated by the USCG and therefore was excluded from the statutory definition of consumer product. (Life jackets are boat equipment.) My counterpart at USCG told me that they basically had no resources that could be put into additional safety regulations for products. Terrorism, drugs, etc., had all the priority. This info is several years old. Harleigh Cal 31 “Kat’s Cradle” From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:42 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets (Jim) I appreciate the feedback. I post this where appropriate about once a year. In fairness to the coast guard, the numbers on child accidents are very low, so I understand their not being too interested, but I was under the impression that if within the height and weight range of the vest, everything would be ok ---that was false and that is why I share this. My guess is the issue I ran into is the 1% kind of thing. Just a quick test in a pool would get rid of any ambiguity. Jim, East Coast Cal 29 sailor On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:42 PM, pw… [at] aol.com <mailto:pw… [at] aol.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Jim - I just forwarded your email to our club! Thanks for the heads up (no pun intended . . . well okay maybe it was, I can't help myself). Seriously, that is a scary realization that USCG Approved doesn't necessarily mean "safe" and so glad you realized this when you were able to do something about it! Fair winds - Paul West Adventure Kwest Cal 39 on the Chesapeake From: 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com <mailto:sa… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2015 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would have killed him. My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in the creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off the boat on hot summer days. My main point of this is with small kids, test the life jacket. The coast guard approved rating does not mean as much as you might think. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com <mailto:al… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on a boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon after. And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my marina. I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and hands. Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of me. I don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My helmet was in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. When I replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated one. I would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without a helmet. Allen On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:tm… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. David Dobbs CAL29 411

I wasn't looking for more regulations, I am not a regulations kind of a guy. I just wanted someone to look at the technical side of the issue and check it against the current testing methods. There were no takers. Jim East Coast Cal 29 Sailor On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 5:14 PM, 'Harleigh Ewell' hp… [at] hpewell.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > In more fairness to the Coast Guard, the following may shed some light. I > used to work in the General Counsel’s office at the Consumer Product Safety > Commission (CPSC) and had a number of communications with the Coast Guard > about whether some particular product was a consumer product subject to > CPSC jurisdiction or was an item of boat equipment that could be regulated > by the USCG and therefore was excluded from the statutory definition of > consumer product. (Life jackets are boat equipment.) My counterpart at > USCG told me that they basically had no resources that could be put into > additional safety regulations for products. Terrorism, drugs, etc., had > all the priority. This info is several years old. > > > > Harleigh > > Cal 31 “Kat’s Cradle” > > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:42 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets (Jim) > > > > > > I appreciate the feedback. I post this where appropriate about once a > year. In fairness to the coast guard, the numbers on child accidents are > very low, so I understand their not being too interested, but I was under > the impression that if within the height and weight range of the vest, > everything would be ok ---that was false and that is why I share this. > > My guess is the issue I ran into is the 1% kind of thing. > > Just a quick test in a pool would get rid of any ambiguity. > > > > Jim, > > East Coast Cal 29 sailor > > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:42 PM, pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats] < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Jim - > > > > I just forwarded your email to our club! Thanks for the heads up (no pun > intended . . . well okay maybe it was, I can't help myself). > > Seriously, that is a scary realization that USCG Approved doesn't > necessarily mean "safe" and so glad you realized this when you were able to > do something about it! > > > > Fair winds - > > > > Paul West > > Adventure Kwest > > Cal 39 on the Chesapeake > > -----Original Message----- > From: 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2015 10:47 am > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets > > > > Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w > children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the > pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands > when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type > III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the > size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap > that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long > story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me > was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped > in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I > got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no > wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. > > The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short > legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my > college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no > response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. > After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these > approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they > knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were > tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I > offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. > > So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are > wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine > when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this > jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. > > > > Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would have > killed him. > > My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in the > creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the > ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so > they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My > goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and > getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will > have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off > the boat on hot summer days. > > > > My main point of this is with small kids, test the life jacket. > > The coast guard approved rating does not mean as much as you might think. > > Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor. > > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com > [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on a > boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto > inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye > level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl > weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon > after. > > > > And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my marina. > I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and hands. > Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of me. I > don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My helmet was > in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. When I > replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated one. I > would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without a > helmet. > > > > Allen > > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com > [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't > wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. > It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an > Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and > clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them > on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The > boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, > but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since > forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us > against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear > one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. > > David Dobbs CAL29 411 > > > > > > > > > > > > >

That still takes resources. Harleigh Cal 31 Kat’s Cradle From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 5:59 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets (Jim) I wasn't looking for more regulations, I am not a regulations kind of a guy. I just wanted someone to look at the technical side of the issue and check it against the current testing methods. There were no takers. Jim East Coast Cal 29 Sailor On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 5:14 PM, 'Harleigh Ewell' hp… [at] hpewell.com <mailto:hp… [at] hpewell.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: In more fairness to the Coast Guard, the following may shed some light. I used to work in the General Counsel’s office at the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) and had a number of communications with the Coast Guard about whether some particular product was a consumer product subject to CPSC jurisdiction or was an item of boat equipment that could be regulated by the USCG and therefore was excluded from the statutory definition of consumer product. (Life jackets are boat equipment.) My counterpart at USCG told me that they basically had no resources that could be put into additional safety regulations for products. Terrorism, drugs, etc., had all the priority. This info is several years old. Harleigh Cal 31 “Kat’s Cradle” From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:42 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets (Jim) I appreciate the feedback. I post this where appropriate about once a year. In fairness to the coast guard, the numbers on child accidents are very low, so I understand their not being too interested, but I was under the impression that if within the height and weight range of the vest, everything would be ok ---that was false and that is why I share this. My guess is the issue I ran into is the 1% kind of thing. Just a quick test in a pool would get rid of any ambiguity. Jim, East Coast Cal 29 sailor On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:42 PM, pw… [at] aol.com <mailto:pw… [at] aol.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Jim - I just forwarded your email to our club! Thanks for the heads up (no pun intended . . . well okay maybe it was, I can't help myself). Seriously, that is a scary realization that USCG Approved doesn't necessarily mean "safe" and so glad you realized this when you were able to do something about it! Fair winds - Paul West Adventure Kwest Cal 39 on the Chesapeake From: 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com <mailto:sa… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2015 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would have killed him. My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in the creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off the boat on hot summer days. My main point of this is with small kids, test the life jacket. The coast guard approved rating does not mean as much as you might think. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com <mailto:al… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on a boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon after. And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my marina. I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and hands. Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of me. I don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My helmet was in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. When I replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated one. I would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without a helmet. Allen On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:tm… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. David Dobbs CAL29 411