Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets

I had something similar happen. I know there are a lot of new members here, I hope the older members don't mind me sharing this again. Almost 10 years ago, I was in a race and 12 miles off the coast of Ventura Ca. The wind was 2 knots.The seas started to build and build till they were breaking and you could see the sun thru the back of the waves. The wind went from 2 knots to 42 knots and 12-14 ft seas in about 10 min or so. We rounded the mark set up for a run with a wisker pole up. It got crazy out of control and I went forward to take the pole down. On the way back to the cockpit, we rounded up then broached. As the boat rolled back to the other side I was on the cabin top. The main had a preventer on it, the pressure pulled the rivets thru a lewmar Carbo block. The boom smacked me in the hip. I was like a baseball, it launched me 30 ft into the air. I had an inflatable vest on. It worked as advertised, you could hear it inflate and popped me to the surface. The problem was, my head was just barely out of the water. My nose and mouth were submerged. I ended up taking the thing off so I didn't drown. The 2 good things that happened were, I used it to keep me afloat and I was able to wave it over my head to get the Ventura County Search and Rescue Helicopter to spot me. I learned. Lesson #1. Stay on the boat if at all possible. Your boat may not be able to turn around and come back and get you/find you in big seas. (My white face was nothing to huge breaking seas) Lesson #2. Constantly readjust your gear. Last time you wore it may of been when it was 52 degrees and you wore everything you needed to stay comphy. The next time you wear it you aren't wearing the same gear. Thanks for letting me share. This is all good info. Randy Cal 2 29 Out Patient Channel Islands Ca Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® 3 <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> </div><div>Date:04/30/2015 7:47 AM (GMT-08:00) </div><div>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com </div><div>Cc: </div><div>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets </div><div> </div>Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would have killed him. My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in the creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off the boat on hot summer days. My main point of this is with small kids, test the life jacket. The coast guard approved rating does not mean as much as you might think. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on a boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon after. And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my marina. I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and hands. Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of me. I don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My helmet was in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. When I replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated one. I would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without a helmet. Allen On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. David Dobbs CAL29 411

Randy,Thanks for the story, I've been on the list for 18 years but I never heard it before. Glad you had that PFD on. The wind can get crazy up where you are. I had rented a Capri 14 at the Catalina dock at Channel Islands Marina in late April, on a breezy day, but ten minutes after leaving the dock, the wind died dead, and I had the sheets cam-cleated and was sitting on the leeward rail when a sudden blast-gust hit the boat, knocking her on the side. My girlfriend was aboard, wearing a heavy winter coat, and she stood on the mast to steady herself, then slipped off and went under. I jumped in and put her into a life saving position (I'm a former lifeguard and varsity swimmer), and swam her over to a nearby powerboat whose occupants hauled her out. Needless to say, the whole episode of "dumping her in the middle of the ocean" (we were in front of the launch ramp at this moment) freaked her out so badly that she never felt comfortable enough to go sailing again. So, I guess, if you aren't going to wear a PFD be really proficient in swimming and have the presence of mind to shed boots and jackets quickly, and if you're with a less than stellar swimmer, or are in a situation where the water can cause rapid body heat loss=hypothermia, a PFD is a great idea. Hey, maybe it's a good idea to jump into the deep end of a pool with complete fouly gear just to see how it goes for you. Of course, if you're knocked unconscious, I don't know if anything less than gear that will turn you right side up with your mouth and nose out of the waves will save you.Jerry, Cal 24-1 On Thursday, April 30, 2015 7:15 PM, "saylorran sa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I had something similar happen. I know there are a lot of new members here, I hope the older members don't mind me sharing this again. Almost 10 years ago, I was in a race and 12 miles off the coast of Ventura Ca. The wind was 2 knots.The seas started to build and build till they were breaking and you could see the sun thru the back of the waves. The wind went from 2 knots to 42 knots and 12-14 ft seas in about 10 min or so. We rounded the mark set up for a run with a wisker pole up. It got crazy out of control and I went forward to take the pole down. On the way back to the cockpit, we rounded up then broached. As the boat rolled back to the other side I was on the cabin top. The main had a preventer on it, the pressure pulled the rivets thru a lewmar Carbo block. The boom smacked me in the hip. I was like a baseball, it launched me 30 ft into the air. I had an inflatable vest on. It worked as advertised, you could hear it inflate and popped me to the surface. The problem was, my head was just barely out of the water. My nose and mouth were submerged. I ended up taking the thing off so I didn't drown. The 2 good things that happened were, I used it to keep me afloat and I was able to wave it over my head to get the Ventura County Search and Rescue Helicopter to spot me. I learned. Lesson #1. Stay on the boat if at all possible. Your boat may not be able to turn around and come back and get you/find you in big seas. (My white face was nothing to huge breaking seas) Lesson #2. Constantly readjust your gear. Last time you wore it may of been when it was 52 degrees and you wore everything you needed to stay comphy. The next time you wear it you aren't wearing the same gear. Thanks for letting me share. This is all good info. Randy Cal 2 29 Out Patient Channel Islands Ca Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® 3 -------- Original message --------From: "'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date:04/30/2015 7:47 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cc: Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] PFDs and helmets Since on the topic of life jackets, I want to share my experience w children's life jackets. We had a rule at the house, any kid goes on the pier, has to wear a life jacket. They would typically hold our hands when walking down the pier. My son was 4 at the time and wearing a type III life jacket, the vest kind that was fitted properly and he was in the size and weight range specified on the jacket. The jacket had the strap that goes between the legs so he could not slip out of it. To make a long story short, he leaned too far over a railing and fell in. What shocked me was his life jacket immediately put him in a face down position. I jumped in a got him. He swallowed a lot of water, but was ok. Later that day, I got him to go in the water w me and what I found was that every time, no wind, flat water, his jacket would put him face down. The contributing factor I think was that my son had a big head and short legs. The jacket was a brand I respected and wore all throughout my college sailing days. I followed up w the company via email and got no response. I followed up w the coast guard and that shocked me even more. After a few emails and a couple of discussions, I found out that these approved vests are tested on fewer than 10 kids. When I inquired if they knew the weight ranges and/or center of gravity of the kids that were tested, I got nothing more then "the jacket met our testing standards". I offered to show video of the issue and there was no interest. So, if you have small kids on the water, test the life jacket they are wearing in the water. For us, a cheap walmart brand jacket worked fine when this jacket did not. I also want to mention that a year later, this jacket did work ok for my child. He grew into it. Had my son fallen off a moving sailboat, his first life jacket would have killed him. My boys are older now(7,8 & 10). We have slowly gone from swimming in the creek, to jumping off the boat while at the slip and climbing up the ladder, to jumping off a moving boat when in the middle of the creek so they would see what's it's like to be approached by a large sailboat. My goal is to give them as many experiences relating to being in the water and getting out, as I can so if they are ever in a bad situation, they will have some familiarity. All they know is they get to have fun jumping off the boat on hot summer days. My main point of this is with small kids, test the life jacket. The coast guard approved rating does not mean as much as you might think. Jim East Coast Cal 29 sailor. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: The only time I wear my pdf is when I am on a boat, or about to be on a boat. Just wear them. A friend fell overboard. She was wearing an auto inflating pdf. She said when the thing inflated she was going down and eye level to the bottom of the keel. Imagine trying to swim up with fowl weather gear from 6 feet under water. You will be 6 feet under ground soon after. And bike helmets... I was riding my bike on a bike path near my marina. I like to sit up and ride with no hands. Easier on the nexk and hands. Suddenly I was skidding on my back with my bike sliding in front of me. I don't recall falling. My seat post broke. Faulty casting. My helmet was in two pieces but I was fine. I didn't even get a headache. When I replaced the helmet I made damn sure it was another SNELL rated one. I would be dead if I felt that riding on a bike path was safe without a helmet. Allen On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, david dobbs tm… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I sail on Lake Michigan, and it gets pretty nasty fairly often. I don't wear a PFD usually, but there occasions when I tell the crew, put 'em on. It's all about knowing what the conditions are. When I crewed on an Erickson 35 racing the boat rule was after dark you were in a PFD and clipped to the jackline. And if the captain said "lifejackets" we put them on, no dissent. We were pretty good, placed well in the standings. The boat rule was crew safety first, then boat safety. i don't race anymore, but the boat continues to win. As to helmets, I've been riding bikes since forever, and will not wear one. It's another invention of the ":protect us against everything lobby." If you're a racer, then yes you should wear one. But when I'm just cruising on the local bike path, no way. David Dobbs CAL29 411