Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking

The secret thing that no one talks about with CALs is that they are very weakly built in their sterns. I've had to repair my cal 35 rudder tube after it cracked and almost sank us. Upon researching the problem I read about two other cal 35s with similar issues

Has this weakness been seen in the Mk 1 Cal 34's? Philip Lewis Soufflé, Cal 34 Portland, Oregon. On Jun 18, 2015, at 5:34, "Ben Smith be… [at] live.com<mailto:be… [at] live.com> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> wrote: The secret thing that no one talks about with CALs is that they are very weakly built in their sterns. I've had to repair my cal 35 rudder tube after it cracked and almost sank us. Upon researching the problem I read about two other cal 35s with similar issues

Paul, this issue made me go back to when we installed our new foss rudder in 2012 or 13....we hauled for a bottom job, did our own work as usual, first haul on our boat for us. (we hauled again a year later to repaint as paint we bought from a guy in Benicia was too old...never buy that way) We removed paint to gel coat, found a few blisters and attacked them as we do and (they were still excellent on second haul by the way) found that the rudder post area (cal 36) was ok and shaft log excellent and had inspected inside of hull as you have. However, even though your rudder is right behind the keel, the 36 is out there by itself. I noticed some interesting features of the original hull assembly. One, the seam to put both sides together had what looked like a bandage of about 6 to 8 inches wide, that came from the stern to just above the waterline stripe. So, further inspection and some sanding revealed an area I choose to beef up and fiberglass all the way to the keel. I took off the "grass cutter" and found a little discolor under it as if it was contaminated. Not much further sanding cleaned that up. I then did several layers on the cleaned-to-fresh laminate including all the way up to that other bandage, and squared off the rudder shaft exit so that an external bushing (washer style) would sit flat between rudder and hull. This had me needing to fair the rudder top to ride perfectly with even space so the front would clear the hull pitch.(which already was different due to its being designed for a 40).I went to my photos to re orient myself. Be sure to use fiberglass, not just fairing compound, to strengthen your repair. Helen On Thursday, June 18, 2015 3:15 AM, "'Philip A. Lewis' ph… [at] phillewis.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Has this weakness been seen in the Mk 1 Cal 34's? Philip Lewis Soufflé, Cal 34Portland, Oregon. On Jun 18, 2015, at 5:34, "Ben Smith be… [at] live.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: The secret thing that no one talks about with CALs is that they are very weakly built in their sterns. I've had to repair my cal 35 rudder tube after it cracked and almost sank us. Upon researching the problem I read about two other cal 35s with similar issues

Helen - When we had the boat surveyed, the surveyor, who was also a naval architect, told us the boat was built in 2 halves and had a seam down the center and he found some soft spots here and there along the seam because where the halves came together they just used fairing compound to make the seam look good. He told us not to worry about that because all the strength came from the fiberglass cloth used on the inside of the boat. I can't remember if he recommended it or if I decided to do it myself but I took my grinder and ground down the glass from bow to stern to allow me to lay an 8" wide long strip of cloth down the length of the boat to seal that seam forever. In doing so I discovered that the PO had either hit a dock or something substantial floating in the water and that the bow had some pretty substantial damage at the water line that I also ground back about a foot and repaired. In addition, he had gotten hung up on some coral in the Bahamas for a while and had torn up the toe of the keel so long story short I've done a lot of fiberglass work (I have more stories that I won't bore you with). Our boat is on it's 3rd rudder. Original snapped when the PO was in a Bermuda race. He had another one built there and apparently wasn't happy with the island work and had Foss Foam build another one later. Our rudder is not protected by the keel but does have a bit of a skeg that extends down about 10-12". It appears from my pics that the end of the skeg was never faired or painted so I am going to take care of that as well as grind out some of the sloppy glass around the tube and re-fill it with West Systems 301 (I think that's the # I need anyway) Paul From: Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2015 3:09 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking Paul, this issue made me go back to when we installed our new foss rudder in 2012 or 13....we hauled for a bottom job, did our own work as usual, first haul on our boat for us. (we hauled again a year later to repaint as paint we bought from a guy in Benicia was too old...never buy that way) We removed paint to gel coat, found a few blisters and attacked them as we do and (they were still excellent on second haul by the way) found that the rudder post area (cal 36) was ok and shaft log excellent and had inspected inside of hull as you have. However, even though your rudder is right behind the keel, the 36 is out there by itself. I noticed some interesting features of the original hull assembly. One, the seam to put both sides together had what looked like a bandage of about 6 to 8 inches wide, that came from the stern to just above the waterline stripe. So, further inspection and some sanding revealed an area I choose to beef up and fiberglass all the way to the keel. I took off the "grass cutter" and found a little discolor under it as if it was contaminated. Not much further sanding cleaned that up. I then did several layers on the cleaned-to-fresh laminate including all the way up to that other bandage, and squared off the rudder shaft exit so that an external bushing (washer style) would sit flat between rudder and hull. This had me needing to fair the rudder top to ride perfectly with even space so the front would clear the hull pitch.(which already was different due to its being designed for a 40).I went to my photos to re orient myself. Be sure to use fiberglass, not just fairing compound, to strengthen your repair. Helen On Thursday, June 18, 2015 3:15 AM, "'Philip A. Lewis' ph… [at] phillewis.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Has this weakness been seen in the Mk 1 Cal 34's? Philip Lewis Soufflé, Cal 34 Portland, Oregon. Sent from my iPad On Jun 18, 2015, at 5:34, "Ben Smith be… [at] live.com [Cal_Boats]" < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: The secret thing that no one talks about with CALs is that they are very weakly built in their sterns. I've had to repair my cal 35 rudder tube after it cracked and almost sank us. Upon researching the problem I read about two other cal 35s with similar issues Sent from my iPhone

Paul, When we pulled our rudder the last time we hauled out we spent a lot of time grinding our that area and filling it with either thickened West system or fiberglass cloth, depending on the area. We actually found that our exhaust tube was leaking out the bottom and some exhaust water was making it's way between the layers of glass in the transom down to the area right above the rudder. The only reason we figured it out was that the water coming out the fiberglass was oily in nature. Greg From: "pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking Helen - When we had the boat surveyed, the surveyor, who was also a naval architect, told us the boat was built in 2 halves and had a seam down the center and he found some soft spots here and there along the seam because where the halves came together they just used fairing compound to make the seam look good. He told us not to worry about that because all the strength came from the fiberglass cloth used on the inside of the boat. I can't remember if he recommended it or if I decided to do it myself but I took my grinder and ground down the glass from bow to stern to allow me to lay an 8" wide long strip of cloth down the length of the boat to seal that seam forever. In doing so I discovered that the PO had either hit a dock or something substantial floating in the water and that the bow had some pretty substantial damage at the water line that I also ground back about a foot and repaired. In addition, he had gotten hung up on some coral in the Bahamas for a while and had torn up the toe of the keel so long story short I've done a lot of fiberglass work (I have more stories that I won't bore you with). Our boat is on it's 3rd rudder. Original snapped when the PO was in a Bermuda race. He had another one built there and apparently wasn't happy with the island work and had Foss Foam build another one later. Our rudder is not protected by the keel but does have a bit of a skeg that extends down about 10-12". It appears from my pics that the end of the skeg was never faired or painted so I am going to take care of that as well as grind out some of the sloppy glass around the tube and re-fill it with West Systems 301 (I think that's the # I need anyway) Paul From: Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2015 3:09 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking Paul, this issue made me go back to when we installed our new foss rudder in 2012 or 13....we hauled for a bottom job, did our own work as usual, first haul on our boat for us. (we hauled again a year later to repaint as paint we bought from a guy in Benicia was too old...never buy that way) We removed paint to gel coat, found a few blisters and attacked them as we do and (they were still excellent on second haul by the way) found that the rudder post area (cal 36) was ok and shaft log excellent and had inspected inside of hull as you have. However, even though your rudder is right behind the keel, the 36 is out there by itself. I noticed some interesting features of the original hull assembly. One, the seam to put both sides together had what looked like a bandage of about 6 to 8 inches wide, that came from the stern to just above the waterline stripe. So, further inspection and some sanding revealed an area I choose to beef up and fiberglass all the way to the keel. I took off the "grass cutter" and found a little discolor under it as if it was contaminated. Not much further sanding cleaned that up. I then did several layers on the cleaned-to-fresh laminate including all the way up to that other bandage, and squared off the rudder shaft exit so that an external bushing (washer style) would sit flat between rudder and hull. This had me needing to fair the rudder top to ride perfectly with even space so the front would clear the hull pitch.(which already was different due to its being designed for a 40).I went to my photos to re orient myself. Be sure to use fiberglass, not just fairing compound, to strengthen your repair. Helen On Thursday, June 18, 2015 3:15 AM, "'Philip A. Lewis' ph… [at] phillewis.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Has this weakness been seen in the Mk 1 Cal 34's? Philip Lewis Soufflé, Cal 34 Portland, Oregon. Sent from my iPad On Jun 18, 2015, at 5:34, "Ben Smith be… [at] live.com [Cal_Boats]" < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: The secret thing that no one talks about with CALs is that they are very weakly built in their sterns. I've had to repair my cal 35 rudder tube after it cracked and almost sank us. Upon researching the problem I read about two other cal 35s with similar issues Sent from my iPhone

Greg - Hmmmm you may be onto something. We too have oily water in the bilge but I thought it was because the PO had the fuel tank rupture when he wasn't around and 30-40 gallons of diesel went into the bilge so I thought it was remnants of that still. That said, I've not noticed an oily streak coming from aft of the boat anywhere but I'll look harder at the exhaust tube now. Thanks for the heads up. Paul From: Greg vanDalen no… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2015 4:28 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking Paul, When we pulled our rudder the last time we hauled out we spent a lot of time grinding our that area and filling it with either thickened West system or fiberglass cloth, depending on the area. We actually found that our exhaust tube was leaking out the bottom and some exhaust water was making it's way between the layers of glass in the transom down to the area right above the rudder. The only reason we figured it out was that the water coming out the fiberglass was oily in nature. Greg From: "pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking Helen - When we had the boat surveyed, the surveyor, who was also a naval architect, told us the boat was built in 2 halves and had a seam down the center and he found some soft spots here and there along the seam because where the halves came together they just used fairing compound to make the seam look good. He told us not to worry about that because all the strength came from the fiberglass cloth used on the inside of the boat. I can't remember if he recommended it or if I decided to do it myself but I took my grinder and ground down the glass from bow to stern to allow me to lay an 8" wide long strip of cloth down the length of the boat to seal that seam forever. In doing so I discovered that the PO had either hit a dock or something substantial floating in the water and that the bow had some pretty substantial damage at the water line that I also ground back about a foot and repaired. In addition, he had gotten hung up on some coral in the Bahamas for a while and had torn up the toe of the keel so long story short I've done a lot of fiberglass work (I have more stories that I won't bore you with). Our boat is on it's 3rd rudder. Original snapped when the PO was in a Bermuda race. He had another one built there and apparently wasn't happy with the island work and had Foss Foam build another one later. Our rudder is not protected by the keel but does have a bit of a skeg that extends down about 10-12". It appears from my pics that the end of the skeg was never faired or painted so I am going to take care of that as well as grind out some of the sloppy glass around the tube and re-fill it with West Systems 301 (I think that's the # I need anyway) Paul From: Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2015 3:09 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking Paul, this issue made me go back to when we installed our new foss rudder in 2012 or 13....we hauled for a bottom job, did our own work as usual, first haul on our boat for us. (we hauled again a year later to repaint as paint we bought from a guy in Benicia was too old...never buy that way) We removed paint to gel coat, found a few blisters and attacked them as we do and (they were still excellent on second haul by the way) found that the rudder post area (cal 36) was ok and shaft log excellent and had inspected inside of hull as you have. However, even though your rudder is right behind the keel, the 36 is out there by itself. I noticed some interesting features of the original hull assembly. One, the seam to put both sides together had what looked like a bandage of about 6 to 8 inches wide, that came from the stern to just above the waterline stripe. So, further inspection and some sanding revealed an area I choose to beef up and fiberglass all the way to the keel. I took off the "grass cutter" and found a little discolor under it as if it was contaminated. Not much further sanding cleaned that up. I then did several layers on the cleaned-to-fresh laminate including all the way up to that other bandage, and squared off the rudder shaft exit so that an external bushing (washer style) would sit flat between rudder and hull. This had me needing to fair the rudder top to ride perfectly with even space so the front would clear the hull pitch.(which already was different due to its being designed for a 40).I went to my photos to re orient myself. Be sure to use fiberglass, not just fairing compound, to strengthen your repair. Helen On Thursday, June 18, 2015 3:15 AM, "'Philip A. Lewis' ph… [at] phillewis.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Has this weakness been seen in the Mk 1 Cal 34's? Philip Lewis Soufflé, Cal 34 Portland, Oregon. Sent from my iPad On Jun 18, 2015, at 5:34, "Ben Smith be… [at] live.com [Cal_Boats]" < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: The secret thing that no one talks about with CALs is that they are very weakly built in their sterns. I've had to repair my cal 35 rudder tube after it cracked and almost sank us. Upon researching the problem I read about two other cal 35s with similar issues Sent from my iPhone

The exhaust pipe is a poorly welded piece of tubing and it isn't too hard to remove and check > On Jun 18, 2015, at 1:42 PM, pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Greg - > > > Hmmmm you may be onto something. We too have oily water in the bilge but I thought it was because the PO had the fuel tank rupture when he wasn't around and 30-40 gallons of diesel went into the bilge so I thought it was remnants of that still. That said, I've not noticed an oily streak coming from aft of the boat anywhere but I'll look harder at the exhaust tube now. > > Thanks for the heads up. > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg vanDalen no… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2015 4:28 pm > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking > > > Paul, > > When we pulled our rudder the last time we hauled out we spent a lot of time grinding our that area and filling it with either thickened West system or fiberglass cloth, depending on the area. We actually found that our exhaust tube was leaking out the bottom and some exhaust water was making it's way between the layers of glass in the transom down to the area right above the rudder. The only reason we figured it out was that the water coming out the fiberglass was oily in nature. > > Greg > > From: "pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking > > > Helen - > > When we had the boat surveyed, the surveyor, who was also a naval architect, told us the boat was built in 2 halves and had a seam down the center and he found some soft spots here and there along the seam because where the halves came together they just used fairing compound to make the seam look good. He told us not to worry about that because all the strength came from the fiberglass cloth used on the inside of the boat. I can't remember if he recommended it or if I decided to do it myself but I took my grinder and ground down the glass from bow to stern to allow me to lay an 8" wide long strip of cloth down the length of the boat to seal that seam forever. In doing so I discovered that the PO had either hit a dock or something substantial floating in the water and that the bow had some pretty substantial damage at the water line that I also ground back about a foot and repaired. In addition, he had gotten hung up on some coral in the Bahamas for a while and had torn up the toe of the keel so long story short I've done a lot of fiberglass work (I have more stories that I won't bore you with). > > Our boat is on it's 3rd rudder. Original snapped when the PO was in a Bermuda race. He had another one built there and apparently wasn't happy with the island work and had Foss Foam build another one later. Our rudder is not protected by the keel but does have a bit of a skeg that extends down about 10-12". It appears from my pics that the end of the skeg was never faired or painted so I am going to take care of that as well as grind out some of the sloppy glass around the tube and re-fill it with West Systems 301 (I think that's the # I need anyway) > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2015 3:09 pm > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39 MK III Rudder Tube Leaking > > > Paul, this issue made me go back to when we installed our new foss rudder in 2012 or 13....we hauled for a bottom job, did our own work as usual, first haul on our boat for us. (we hauled again a year later to repaint as paint we bought from a guy in Benicia was too old...never buy that way) We removed paint to gel coat, found a few blisters and attacked them as we do and (they were still excellent on second haul by the way) found that the rudder post area (cal 36) was ok and shaft log excellent and had inspected inside of hull as you have. However, even though your rudder is right behind the keel, the 36 is out there by itself. I noticed some interesting features of the original hull assembly. One, the seam to put both sides together had what looked like a bandage of about 6 to 8 inches wide, that came from the stern to just above the waterline stripe. So, further inspection and some sanding revealed an area I choose to beef up and fiberglass all the way to the keel. I took off the "grass cutter" and found a little discolor under it as if it was contaminated. Not much further sanding cleaned that up. I then did several layers on the cleaned-to-fresh laminate including all the way up to that other bandage, and squared off the rudder shaft exit so that an external bushing (washer style) would sit flat between rudder and hull. This had me needing to fair the rudder top to ride perfectly with even space so the front would clear the hull pitch.(which already was different due to its being designed for a 40).I went to my photos to re orient myself. Be sure to use fiberglass, not just fairing compound, to strengthen your repair. Helen > > > > On Thursday, June 18, 2015 3:15 AM, "'Philip A. Lewis' ph… [at] phillewis.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Has this weakness been seen in the Mk 1 Cal 34's? > > Philip Lewis > Soufflé, Cal 34 > Portland, Oregon. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 18, 2015, at 5:34, "Ben Smith be… [at] live.com [Cal_Boats]" < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > The secret thing that no one talks about with CALs is that they are very weakly built in their sterns. I've had to repair my cal 35 rudder tube after it cracked and almost sank us. Upon researching the problem I read about two other cal 35s with similar issues > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > >