Rigging for Mainsail Reefing

Our '67 Cal 36 has no rigging for reefing the main. This new-to-us lady has only halyard, outhaul, topping lift and of course, mainsheet on a traveler for mainsail controls. I would like to see and hear how she might have been rigged for reefing originally and how you are rigged now if at all. Reefing is essential in our Oregon coastal waters and I will rig it sooner than later. I'd like to go back to original if type controls if possible but I'm not a purist. Can you show pictures or diagrams or describe what you have on Cal 36's? Thanks, Mike

I guess I should describe the sail reefing details: it has two reefing points each with heavy duty tack and clew cringles with the foot cringles spaced between. I forgot to count them but they are spaced pretty close. Mike

Our '69 Cruising 36 evidently came rigged for roller reefing the main, not uncommon in the 60's as I understand. When we bought her 10 years ago, it was the same story you describe - the old main had one set of clew and tack reef cringles, but no working gear to pull down the reef, nor did the roller reefing work any longer, even though the boom and gooseneck are the original. We replaced the main with a new loose-footed sail having cringles for two reefs. The clew outhaul was easy - at some point a previous owner had installed a cheek block out at the end in about the right place, and a small winch and cleat near the gooseneck. The clew outhaul loops around the boom, tied off with a bowline, then up through the cringle and down to the cheek block, then along the boom through several eyes to the gooseneck area. To operate, lower sail to proper position, winch in the outhaul to bring the cringle down to the boom, and tie off. I am still experimenting with proper tack tie-down - there are no horns on the gooseneck (of course, it's the origninal roller reefing gooseneck), or any obvious way to install them. For a while I just looped a line through the downhaul attachment on the gooseneck, through the cringle, and tied off on a spare cleat on the mast. That's hard to adjust to assure that undue stress doesn't come on the first sail slide above the cringle, though it does work with some fussing around. Now I'm experimenting with other ideas. I got used to quick and easy slab reefing on more modern boats and aim to do likewise with my CC 36. The second reef remains to be dealt with - our first reef is quite deep, adequate to manage in up to maybe 25 kt. The second reef really turns the main into the equivalent of a storm trysail in area. Since all of the reefing gear is outside the boom, dealing with the proliferation of lines may be a challenge. Bill SymesS/V Sara E On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 8:48 PM, "mb… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I guess I should describe the sail reefing details: it has two reefing points each with heavy duty tack and clew cringles with the foot cringles spaced between. I forgot to count them but they are spaced pretty close. Mike -- {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} {margin-bottom:10px;} .yiv9482992244ad {padding:0 0;} .yiv9482992244ad p {margin:0;} .yiv9482992244ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} {font-family:Arial;} {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .yiv9482992244ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} span {font-weight:700;} span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;} span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} span span {color:#ff7900;} span .yiv9482992244underline {text-decoration:underline;} .yiv9482992244attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .yiv9482992244attach div a {text-decoration:none;} .yiv9482992244attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;} .yiv9482992244attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .yiv9482992244attach label a {text-decoration:none;} blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;} .yiv9482992244bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} .yiv9482992244bold a {text-decoration:none;} dd.yiv9482992244last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv9482992244last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv9482992244last p span.yiv9482992244yshortcuts {margin-right:0;} div.yiv9482992244attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv9482992244attach-table {width:400px;} div.yiv9482992244file-title a, div.yiv9482992244file-title a:active, div.yiv9482992244file-title a:hover, div.yiv9482992244file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv9482992244photo-title a, div.yiv9482992244photo-title a:active, div.yiv9482992244photo-title a:hover, div.yiv9482992244photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div p a span.yiv9482992244yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} .yiv9482992244green {color:#628c2a;} .yiv9482992244MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;} o {font-size:0;} div {float:left;width:72px;} div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} {font-size:77%;} {font-size:77%;} .yiv9482992244replbq {margin:4px;} div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} select, input, textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} pre, code {font:115% monospace;} * {line-height:1.22em;} {padding-bottom:10px;} p a {font-family:Verdana;} p span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} {font-family:Georgia;} p {margin:0 0 1em 0;} tt {font-size:120%;} ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}

On 8/6/2015 10:20 AM, Lene Symes ls… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > > > I am still experimenting with proper tack tie-down - there are no > horns on the gooseneck (of course, it's the origninal roller reefing > gooseneck), or any obvious way to install them. For a while I just > looped a line through the downhaul attachment on the gooseneck, > through the cringle, and tied off on a spare cleat on the mast. That's > hard to adjust to assure that undue stress doesn't come on the first > sail slide above the cringle, though it does work with some fussing > around. Now I'm experimenting with other ideas. I got used to quick > and easy slab reefing on more modern boats and aim to do likewise with > my CC 36. I had to improvise on my Cal 20. I bought a used mainsail a few years ago. It was designed for boltrope-in-slot on the mast and I added sail slides so it would stay attached to the mast slot as it came down. For the sail slide above the reef point, I used a heavy-duty slide like the normal bottom one. The original tack point was a stainless steel hook of some kind. It promptly broke off, perhaps from work hardening at a bend. I replaced it with with a hardware store stainless steel S-hook of adequate size, with the bottom loop hooked through the gooseneck pivot point. To keep it from unhooking itself, I cut some threads at the end of the bottom loop and added an acorn nut. It has served competently. On the Cal 20, the first mainsail and the replacement sail had the clew reef cringle in different positions, fore-and-aft. The "new" sail could not reef well--the turning block for the clew line wasn't far enough aft, and the foot of the sail would not pull both down and aft, as it must. But lo and behold, there were screw holes in place for the same turning block in a suitable location, so the modification had already been performed once before. The big lesson is that position does matter for proper reefing and sail shape. I've been taught that all those "reef points" between the tack and clew cringles are intended ONLY for gathering up the excess sail cloth. The tack and clew cringles do all the work of shaping the sail. Chris Campbell > >

Please share as you go, Bill. ReggieCal Cruising 36 "Submit" To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 14:20:05 +0000 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Rigging for Mainsail Reefing Our '69 Cruising 36 evidently came rigged for roller reefing the main, not uncommon in the 60's as I understand. When we bought her 10 years ago, it was the same story you describe - the old main had one set of clew and tack reef cringles, but no working gear to pull down the reef, nor did the roller reefing work any longer, even though the boom and gooseneck are the original. We replaced the main with a new loose-footed sail having cringles for two reefs. The clew outhaul was easy - at some point a previous owner had installed a cheek block out at the end in about the right place, and a small winch and cleat near the gooseneck. The clew outhaul loops around the boom, tied off with a bowline, then up through the cringle and down to the cheek block, then along the boom through several eyes to the gooseneck area. To operate, lower sail to proper position, winch in the outhaul to bring the cringle down to the boom, and tie off. I am still experimenting with proper tack tie-down - there are no horns on the gooseneck (of course, it's the origninal roller reefing gooseneck), or any obvious way to install them. For a while I just looped a line through the downhaul attachment on the gooseneck, through the cringle, and tied off on a spare cleat on the mast. That's hard to adjust to assure that undue stress doesn't come on the first sail slide above the cringle, though it does work with some fussing around. Now I'm experimenting with other ideas. I got used to quick and easy slab reefing on more modern boats and aim to do likewise with my CC 36. The second reef remains to be dealt with - our first reef is quite deep, adequate to manage in up to maybe 25 kt. The second reef really turns the main into the equivalent of a storm trysail in area. Since all of the reefing gear is outside the boom, dealing with the proliferation of lines may be a challenge. Bill SymesS/V Sara E On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 8:48 PM, "mb… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I guess I should describe the sail reefing details: it has two reefing points each with heavy duty tack and clew cringles with the foot cringles spaced between. I forgot to count them but they are spaced pretty close.Mike

I do not think I have tried very possible combination of reefing setups but close and if you toss out single line reefing, I may have tried them all. By far the best is the latest (of course). I happen to do all this from the mast but the same can be cone by leading all lines back if desired, that doesn't change anything. First, I have a rope clutch between the end of the boom and a boom mounted winch. That allows me to pull in the reef outhaul and not have to take time to cleat if off. That is done after the tack. The tack has a line from the mast, just at 45 degrees to where it ends up, to a winch on the mast that also forms a 45 degree angel. It is important to pull the tack forward as well as down. I did not add this winch for this task, it is the old spinnaker winch. The process is the fastest of any I have tried in the past. 1) Lower the main to a fixed mark. Mark the mast and the halyard so you know the point. Cleat off the main halyard. 2) Winch in the reef tack line to secure the tack. 3) Winch in the reef outhaul. 4) Done. These lines can easily be brought back to the cockpit. Just a cheek block to bring the tack line and a few halyard turning blocks. A variation uses the cunningham as the tack line but I am not sure how that works. You need to pull forward or you rip out the sail slides. That is also why you need to secure the tack before the outhaul. Those hooks that attach to the gooseneck are a pain to secure. Don't go that way. Allen On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 10:43 AM, r good my… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Please share as you go, Bill. > Reggie > Cal Cruising 36 "Submit" > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 14:20:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Rigging for Mainsail Reefing > > > > Our '69 Cruising 36 evidently came rigged for roller reefing the main, not > uncommon in the 60's as I understand. When we bought her 10 years ago, it > was the same story you describe - the old main had one set of clew and tack > reef cringles, but no working gear to pull down the reef, nor did the > roller reefing work any longer, even though the boom and gooseneck are the > original. We replaced the main with a new loose-footed sail having cringles > for two reefs. The clew outhaul was easy - at some point a previous owner > had installed a cheek block out at the end in about the right place, and a > small winch and cleat near the gooseneck. The clew outhaul loops around the > boom, tied off with a bowline, then up through the cringle and down to the > cheek block, then along the boom through several eyes to the gooseneck > area. To operate, lower sail to proper position, winch in the outhaul to > bring the cringle down to the boom, and tie off. > > I am still experimenting with proper tack tie-down - there are no horns on > the gooseneck (of course, it's the origninal roller reefing gooseneck), or > any obvious way to install them. For a while I just looped a line through > the downhaul attachment on the gooseneck, through the cringle, and tied off > on a spare cleat on the mast. That's hard to adjust to assure that undue > stress doesn't come on the first sail slide above the cringle, though it > does work with some fussing around. Now I'm experimenting with other ideas. > I got used to quick and easy slab reefing on more modern boats and aim to > do likewise with my CC 36. > > The second reef remains to be dealt with - our first reef is quite deep, > adequate to manage in up to maybe 25 kt. The second reef really turns the > main into the equivalent of a storm trysail in area. Since all of the > reefing gear is outside the boom, dealing with the proliferation of lines > may be a challenge. > > Bill Symes > S/V Sara E > > > > On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 8:48 PM, "mb… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > I guess I should describe the sail reefing details: it has two reefing > points each with heavy duty tack and clew cringles with the foot cringles > spaced between. I forgot to count them but they are spaced pretty close. > > Mike > > > > >

Thanks. Keep suggestions coming. Pictures if you have any or will be on your boat. It kind of amazed me how little rigging there is on the boom and mast. It's very clean and I wonder if the PO took it off and sealed the old screw/rivet holes. The boom on our C36 pivots and I'm curious what that's about now that boom roller reefing was mentioned in connection with 60's boats. I assume that it only pivots on the goose neck to move with the sail shape from tack to tack. Is that what it's about or could I have a roller furling boom without realizing it. Other than the pivoting aspect it seems like a normal rounded rectangular cross section. Mike

A roller reefing boom will have no hardward on it and it will pivot with a screw and gear in the gooseneck. You put a crank handle somewhere and turn it to roll the boom up. That is how my boat was set up. I put a bolt where the crank used to attach to keep it from wondering off to one side and to help hold it together. Roller reefing is very slow, takes a huge amount of energy, and produces terrible sail shape. Allen On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:20 PM, mb… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Thanks. Keep suggestions coming. Pictures if you have any or will be on > your boat. > > It kind of amazed me how little rigging there is on the boom and mast. > It's very clean and I wonder if the PO took it off and sealed the old > screw/rivet holes. > > The boom on our C36 pivots and I'm curious what that's about now that boom > roller reefing was mentioned in connection with 60's boats. I assume that > it only pivots on the goose neck to move with the sail shape from tack to > tack. Is that what it's about or could I have a roller furling boom without > realizing it. Other than the pivoting aspect it seems like a normal rounded > rectangular cross section. > > Mike > > >

On 8/7/2015 9:53 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > A roller reefing boom will have no hardward on it and it will pivot > with a screw and gear in the gooseneck. You put a crank handle > somewhere and turn it to roll the boom up. That is how my boat was set > up. I put a bolt where the crank used to attach to keep it from > wondering off to one side and to help hold it together. Roller > reefing is very slow, takes a huge amount of energy, and produces > terrible sail shape. Amen. My other boat still uses roller reefing because it has a really pretty spruce boom that I don't want to clutter with all the little bits of hardware needed for slab reefing. But I have pondered various ways of reefing without extra hardware by using ties to the boom and a line to the bronze screw outhaul. The sail shape using roller reefing varies from barely satisfactory (if you reef with two people at dockside) to miserable (most of the time). My Cal 20 started life with roller reefing (still has the gear) but the boom does have all the blocks and fairleads and cleats to make jiffy reefing work. I have the roller reefing crank aboard and use it once every couple years when the boom manages to work its way off vertical enough to annoy my eye. I've seen roller reefing referred to as "roller furling." You'd have to be a real masochist to want to spend the time needed to roll the whole sail up on the boom. It's a slow and painful process. It's why we invented sail ties and sail covers. Chris Campbell > >

Chris and Allen, I would add one comment. Rolling reefing works the worst when you need it the most. Kind of a summary of all you’ve said. Anyone have good methods to prevent the boom from rolling at the gooseneck? I’m trying to remember what the internal setup looks like at the front of the boom. Cheers Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 10:02 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Rigging for Mainsail Reefing On 8/7/2015 9:53 AM, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com <mailto:al… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] wrote: A roller reefing boom will have no hardward on it and it will pivot with a screw and gear in the gooseneck. You put a crank handle somewhere and turn it to roll the boom up. That is how my boat was set up. I put a bolt where the crank used to attach to keep it from wondering off to one side and to help hold it together. Roller reefing is very slow, takes a huge amount of energy, and produces terrible sail shape. Amen. My other boat still uses roller reefing because it has a really pretty spruce boom that I don't want to clutter with all the little bits of hardware needed for slab reefing. But I have pondered various ways of reefing without extra hardware by using ties to the boom and a line to the bronze screw outhaul. The sail shape using roller reefing varies from barely satisfactory (if you reef with two people at dockside) to miserable (most of the time). My Cal 20 started life with roller reefing (still has the gear) but the boom does have all the blocks and fairleads and cleats to make jiffy reefing work. I have the roller reefing crank aboard and use it once every couple years when the boom manages to work its way off vertical enough to annoy my eye. I've seen roller reefing referred to as "roller furling." You'd have to be a real masochist to want to spend the time needed to roll the whole sail up on the boom. It's a slow and painful process. It's why we invented sail ties and sail covers. Chris Campbell

> > > Anyone have good methods to prevent the boom from rolling at the > gooseneck? I’m trying to remember what the internal setup looks like at > the front of the boom. > > > I don't recall the details of how I did it but I pressed the pin out of the helix gear and put a 1/2 inch bolt in there. Tighten it up and nothing moves. You would have to look and see how it was all assembled. Funny thing is that one of the reasons I wanted the bolt was for a reef hook and now I don't use it as explained previously. Allen

our 67 36 (hull # 60) also has no roller reefing, but we may soon set it up, probably cheekblocks like the topping lift and outhaul have, then forward down to deck blocks to cockpit maybe. We also have to replace the sheaves as they are the old fiber style and one has crumbled a bit. the sail has one row for reef(our original had two rows).Our new main, a figment of our imagination will have two rows. Ed and Helen On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 8:41 PM, mb… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Our '67 Cal 36 has no rigging for reefing the main. This new-to-us lady > has only halyard, outhaul, topping lift and of course, mainsheet on a > traveler for mainsail controls. I would like to see and hear how she might > have been rigged for reefing originally and how you are rigged now if at > all. Reefing is essential in our Oregon coastal waters and I will rig it > sooner than later. I'd like to go back to original if type controls if > possible but I'm not a purist. > > > Can you show pictures or diagrams or describe what you have on Cal 36's? > > > Thanks, > > Mike > > >