Re: Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit

Thanks Craig. I've read through that exact page and its where we initially got the idea. It's definitely the way we're going (already got the tape). The previous owner put clear silicon nearly everywhere we turned! Never going that route! Regarding the windows, they've already been removed and we will install the lexan on the outside directly over the top of the cutouts, perhaps as one single piece. A friend did this to his boat and it looks very sharp. Not sure how butyl tape with adhere to lexan but I'm hoping we can countersink the screws the same to create a gadget like approach just like on the deck hardware. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Craig Johnson wrote: > > > Take a couple minutes and read the following about bedding with butyl tape. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware&page=1 > I have been using this technique on both my Ranger FUN and my Cal T2 and I swear by it! > > Thanks, > > Craig Johnson > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: sobel_solar@... > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 09:32:29 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "butyl tape with countersink Lexan windows refit". That sounds interesting. Are you using some kind of rubber tape to instal new 'lites'? All I know about is using something like clear Silicone II, then tightening after the sealant begins to gel. BTW how do we know when that happens, by testing with a bead of the stuff oozed out from between the lite and the dog house using a finger tip>? > Jerry > > > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA] (ASE)" > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:58 PM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jon, (is it Jon?), congrats on your undertaking. Where are you located? That could play in to where you go for parts. Have you rebuilt boats before? I have not looked at the pictures at this point. > > > > Take Care > > Charlie Husar > > CAL 25s and CAL 40 > > Annapolis, MD > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jonethorn > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:01 PM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [External] [Cal_Boats] Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit > > > > Working on a complete refit of a 27 poptop. Currently have everything stripped off the deck and nearly down to the fiberglass inside. Next step is paint both in and out. We'd appreciate any pictures others can give of their setup and any suggested modification. > > > > Things to do: > > Paint interior exterior > > New rubrail - needing to find good source - perhaps Sealsspars All new LED lights Complete rewire New batteries/charger Stereo install New cushions New cabinetry Reset of everything on deck - butyl tape with countersink Lexan windows refit New plumbing New/repair of instruments Poptop repair Various fiberglass repair - including previous fix on keel and blisters repair New bulkhead and compression post install > > > > Several other things as will but this is the gist of it. At suggestions/advice/help would be great. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

It's been a while since I've been back here...but nonetheless we got the boat painted last weekend. Came out very clean. I've uploaded some new images in the album with the link below. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Cal_Boats/photos/albums/1277381891 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Cal_Boats/photos/albums/1277381891

hi sir. i also have a '71 pop top that i am refitting. not nearly the job you are undertaking, though! what did you use for paint and how did you apply it? looks like it was sprayed. mine is white and blue, like yours was, but my blue striping is different than yours. i have been considering changing to a solid navy blue paint scheme. it's good to see your pics because, having seen yours, i know it will look good.

We used a Rustoleum oil based enamel and sprayed it on. The key to our shine was using a hardener from Tractor Supply and acetone to thin the mixture. This paint is a premixed color and we boughtfrom Lowes. Used the same stuff in gloss white for the deck. It's all in the prep work as we sanded forever it seems!

wow. i wouldn't have thought a rustoleum product would look so good. i bet it cost a lot less than special paint from WM. surface prep is always the key a good paint job.

There are two boats near me that have used it. One to paint his deck. It is about half the price of what I pay for Brightside. To me it is not worth the price difference. It looks good though but my question is how long will it last. The reviews on Amazon speak highly of it but most were people using it for things other than boats. The paint to avoid is the crap Jamestown Dist sells under their house brand. Particularly the primer. It does dry in just a few hours, which is nice, but it drys to a virtually unsandable rock hard surface. On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 9:02 AM, mo… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > wow. i wouldn't have thought a rustoleum product would look so good. i bet > it cost a lot less than special paint from WM. surface prep is always the > key a good paint job. > >

We did a fair amount of research prior to choosing Rustoleum. Feel free to keep us honest and ask for updates over time.

Well we're getting closer. Just finished repainting the interior with the same rustoleum in gloss white. Looks ingredients in my opinion. Also finished glassing in the new bulkhead so we can install a new compression post. New ac/dc breakers arrive this week so we can rewire the entire thing. Also have lexan cut and ready to install over windows. We'll then be applying nonskid and rebedding everything on the deck using butyl tape and countersinking the bolts. Finally we'll be applying Seahawk Tuff Stuff and Sharkskin below the water. Last but not least we're going to raise the boom. The PO put a 227 mast on this sucker so the boom is too low causing the main to not reach the top of the mast. We'll then focus on refitting a more lush interior once we get her back out on the water in a month or two.

*incredible not ingredients Forgot to mention we've also redone the entire poptop. Had to cut out the inside and reglass new wood and foam. Lots of sanding and a few costs of paint and it looks new again. We'll install using gas spring hinges for ease of opening and to hold upright. Pictures album uploaded separately.

Has anyone torn out the icebox on a 2-27? Just wondering what I can expect to find vis-a-vis construction details if I go this route. It's spacious, but I've found it to be pretty useless for anything more than an overnight -- the top isn't even insulated! -- and I figure I could modify that space to hold a 30-40 quart portable Engel fridge or similarly sized well-insulated cooler (e.g. Yeti, Coleman Extreme).-Adam"Happiness" in Alameda

i have a similar mast compression issue. what was your solution?

What exactly is your issue? In ours it seems the PO had things a bit too tight and the compression post had sagged a bit where it meets the counter next to the sink. There was also a small crack in the floor directly behind the bulkhead where the compression post sits. We ended up cutting out the bulkhead and reglassing the crack as well as a new bulkhead. We also cut a new compression post to replace the original as it had quit a bit of water damage.

---In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <jonethorn@...> wrote : What exactly is your issue? In ours it seems the PO had things a bit too tight and the compression post had sagged a bit where it meets the counter next to the sink. There was also a small crack in the floor directly behind the bulkhead where the compression post sits. We ended up cutting out the bulkhead and reglassing the crack as well as a new bulkhead. We also cut a new compression post to replace the original as it had quit a bit of water damage. the mast support has sagged at some point. the only way you can tell is that the door frame top piece is about 3/4" from being able to be screwed into tje roof as it should be and there is a sag in the ceiling (and some cracking) below the mast step. to be honest, nothing, so far, looks to be actually damaged. that's one reason why i asked you. i thought it might shine some light on what the possible cause is.

that was confusing. lol. try this: the mast support has sagged at some point. the only way you can tell is that the door frame top piece is about 3/4" from being able to be screwed into tje roof as it should be and there is a sag in the ceiling (and some cracking) below the mast step. to be honest, nothing, so far, looks to be actually damaged. that's one reason why i asked you. i thought it might shine some light on what the possible cause is.

Take a look at some of our pictures and let me know if your issue is similar. There's several near the most recent posted.

Photo album is called "1971 Cal 27 Pop Top refit Hull #7"

the last two pics. mine is not nearly that bad. but, that's the same problem. my question is, what caused the compression that caused that.? can i put a metal plate the appropriate thickness between the roof and the compression post?

Also it seems things were maybe way too tight at some point which caused the ceiling to sag a bit. Our floor was even cracked slightly all the below the mast. The PO of ours actual had a taller mast on it which might have added to the issues.

The ceiling had sort of delaminates and sunk in that one spot right below the mast. Our compression post had water damage so it could be due to that. Honestly it was a relatively easy fix to cut out the bulkhead and post. We then bolted a new bulkhead in. You can see from the picture where we only cut a portion out. The new compression post will just a screw in where the original is located. We did shave off the part that sunk in the ceiling and glassed over when we installed the new bulkhead. The post is only 18 inches long or so. The actual weight distribution goes out to the sides and below the counter the plywood is doubled up. After our deconstruction it does seem like you'd be able to insert a steel plate in the gap that's been created. You'd need to take a dremel or something to it first to clean out an even space. I'd roccomend removing the post, evening down the ceiling to be flat again, doing some minor glassing then either reinstalling the original post and cutting it down if needed or cutting an entirely new post.

My last boat (not Cal) had the puddle around the mast, sagging overhead, rotted compression post thing. What that taught me is: Never assume you are looking at the problem. Sagging cracked deck under the mast is often a symptom. The PO had pulled the mast, repaired the deck from the underside with new core of phenolic where the mast rested, and sistered up a heavy teak box around the top of the rotted compression post to fill in the gap now created by the deck being back where it was supposed to be. It had long 5/16's SS bolts through the 3/4" box boards holding them to either side of the compression post. Seemed like a reasonable fix for a compression post rendered short by rot from the mast leaks. After I bought it, I had it in the yard to have the nearby punky teak plywood replaced around the head compartment. The surveyor had noted this and I had the PO on the hook for the "fix". (up to $2K) This necessitated removing the "box" and compression post. Once the yardbirds got that out of the way and removed the FRP head floor-pan they discovered the real problem. The boat was built with untreated fir or pine floor beams under the sole. There were three transverse, all connected by one fore and aft all in one monolithic piece. This was then heavily glassed over and down to the hull. The wood really only being a place holder and the actual strength resting in the FRP "box" beams. The shape of the floor beams was sort of like a "T" with a crossbar halfway to the bottom and another small one at the very bottom. The top of the "T" was what the compression post and main bulkhead sat on and the vertical part of the "T" ran forward under the head floor-pan and a fixed teak passageway sole adjacent to that with no openings in it. According to the yard guys, this was very common construction technique in the mid 70's to mid 80's. Not a problem if the fiberglass is sealed all around and no water can get to the wood. Glass the main bulkhead right to the top of the "T" and build out the rest of the interior. Then some other worker comes along who's job it is to install the Coax that goes up the mast and back to the nav station. There was a teak trim piece that covered the corner of the head compartment directly below the mast. Wires came down behind it and exited below the floor-pan. However the head floor-pan rests right on the beam and the wires will be pinned by the head floor-pan. So he just runs a half inch bit down through the FRP into the wood beam and then while still spinning the drill, levers it sideways out 90 degrees forward, creating a 2-3 inch slot down the side of the beam so the wires can exit below the pan and then be run up behind the sink to go aft. He doesn't make any attempt to seal up the wound in the fiberglass and just screws the head floor-pan in, covering up the carnage and moves on. 22 years later my boatwright pulls that floor-pan out again to discover the the entire wood section inside the FRP is only a powdery former wood-like substance. The fiberglass, with no real wood inside to hold its shape has started to fold up and crush under the compression posts force. Everything had been going down into the beam. The compression post wasn't shorter, it had crushed the floor beam down over an inch. Sagging deck cracked, leaked and the rain came through to help the rot keep working. The PO's first fix (no doubt to get it sold) fixed the symptom not the cause. The yard bill to eventually put this right was 50% of what I had just paid for the boat. I paid half, and with the PO's $2K combined with the Surveyor's (who didn't catch this problem) pitching in another $1000 covered the other half. This took ripping out the head, the sole from the first beam aft of the rotted one all the way up to the "V" berth. Cutting out all the original FRP beam structure and replacing it. This time with Epoxy saturated wood beams that were not connected together fore and aft so if somehow rot were to get into one, it could not travel through all of them. Ended up with two new pieces of teak ply for main bulkhead/aft wall of head and side wall of head up to entry door from the forward cabin. Had an ugly seam across the Teak sole where the first floor aft of the main beam was. It was that or another couple thousand to tear out the settees, galley and tanks so the sole could come out in one piece. The Teak compression post was toast and the solid teak 3 X 3 needed to replicate it would've cost $800 before they started machining the dados, etc into it at over $100 an hour. I had the welder build a new one from 2 inch diameter heavy-wall aluminum tube. Wasn't a lot cheaper, but it'll never rot! Once it was all back together, it was stronger than it had been when new and worth just about what I paid for it initially... Moral: If you're thinking of buying a boat that has a puddle on the deck around the mast, look carefully, the repair could cost 50% of the fair market value of the boat! When I quizzed the yard guys about whether they could handle this repair, they said they had just done one the month before and do about 5-6 a year on typical boats from that era. They said in all your average racer/cruiser production boats from that era it was fairly common. They so rarely ever seal up the limber holes after they drill through the beams. From: "jo… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 8:32 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 27 poptop suggestions for refit The ceiling had sort of delaminates and sunk in that one spot right below the mast. Our compression post had water damage so it could be due to that. Honestly it was a relatively easy fix to cut out the bulkhead and post. We then bolted a new bulkhead in. You can see from the picture where we only cut a portion out. The new compression post will just a screw in where the original is located. We did shave off the part that sunk in the ceiling and glassed over when we installed the new bulkhead. The post is only 18 inches long or so. The actual weight distribution goes out to the sides and below the counter the plywood is doubled up. After our deconstruction it does seem like you'd be able to insert a steel plate in the gap that's been created. You'd need to take a dremel or something to it first to clean out an even space. I'd roccomend removing the post, evening down the ceiling to be flat again, doing some minor glassing then either reinstalling the original post and cutting it down if needed or cutting an entirely new post. -- {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} {margin-bottom:10px;} .yiv9493145458ad {padding:0 0;} .yiv9493145458ad p {margin:0;} .yiv9493145458ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} {font-family:Arial;} {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .yiv9493145458ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} span {font-weight:700;} span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;} span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} span span {color:#ff7900;} span .yiv9493145458underline {text-decoration:underline;} .yiv9493145458attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .yiv9493145458attach div a {text-decoration:none;} .yiv9493145458attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;} .yiv9493145458attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .yiv9493145458attach label a {text-decoration:none;} blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;} .yiv9493145458bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} .yiv9493145458bold a {text-decoration:none;} dd.yiv9493145458last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv9493145458last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv9493145458last p span.yiv9493145458yshortcuts {margin-right:0;} div.yiv9493145458attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv9493145458attach-table {width:400px;} div.yiv9493145458file-title a, div.yiv9493145458file-title a:active, div.yiv9493145458file-title a:hover, div.yiv9493145458file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv9493145458photo-title a, div.yiv9493145458photo-title a:active, div.yiv9493145458photo-title a:hover, div.yiv9493145458photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div p a span.yiv9493145458yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} .yiv9493145458green {color:#628c2a;} .yiv9493145458MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;} o {font-size:0;} div {float:left;width:72px;} div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} {font-size:77%;} {font-size:77%;} .yiv9493145458replbq {margin:4px;} div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} select, input, textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} pre, code {font:115% monospace;} * {line-height:1.22em;} {padding-bottom:10px;} p a {font-family:Verdana;} p span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} {font-family:Georgia;} p {margin:0 0 1em 0;} tt {font-size:120%;} ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}

Wow that was a very thorough detail in what is causing these issues. Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up. Seems like you are spot on here. We've checked much of the areas you're describing and luckily it seems our issues are contained in just a few places. Hopefully that remains true as we too don't want to put more into this than what the boat is worth all together.

thanks :)

Anyone know where I can get rub rail end caps for a Cal 27 pop top