Shower drain

Hopefully one or more of you can help me solve this puzzle. I have a 1979 Cal 39 MKII. I intend to do more cruising here on the Chesapeake Bay and I wanted to improve the disposal of the grey water resulting from use of the shower. The current set-up has the shower drain dumping directly into the bilge (I have the two cabin model, so my single head sits forward of the mast). I don't like the idea of grey water sloshing around in the bilge, so my plan was to run a 1" hose from the drain through the holes in the frames such that the shower drains directly into the lower bilge, where the bilge pump sits, where it can be easily pumped out following a shower. As I got into the project yesterday I was shocked to discover that one frame - the one that sits underneath the mast support - is solid, with no hole to allow bilge water to move backward. The reason this shocked me is that I had been cruising the prior weekend and my guests and I took three showers, yet there is no water in the compartment where the shower drains. How is the water moving toward the bilge compartments aft of the mast? My assumption is that when the boat is heeled over (we had a great sail coming home from the cruise and were heeled over for several hours) the water exits the compartment and flows backward by running up the side, and around/above the frames. It is surprising that there is literally zero water remaining under the shower, but at least that is possible. And I can't think of any other way the water can flow backward from the shower drain. What I can't figure out is either 1) how the drain/sump/pump out was originally configured and 2) how I can elegantly collect and evacuate this grey water. The compartment directly under the shower is tiny, and wouldn't hold more than a gallon or two; no room there for a shower sump. Also, I see zero indication of a pump - I have the original electrical panel (unfortunately) and there is nothing that indicates any pump was ever located forward for this purpose. I can't believe that the original design was to dump the shower drain into a bilge compartment which can only drain aft if the boat heels over, but what the original design was, and how I might configure a solution today, is a mystery to me. Thanks in advance for your help. Rick Stuntz s/v "Hotspur"

Whale Intelligent Gulley pump. Very elegant solution and you can run the output hose out of the boat and have no nasty bilge water. I have the two-inlet sump version and have one side hooked to the shower drain and the other is capped right now but is either going to be the water that drains back from the anchor locker or perhaps the sink drain and eliminate a through-hull. > On Sep 12, 2015, at 07:44, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Hopefully one or more of you can help me solve this puzzle. > > I have a 1979 Cal 39 MKII. I intend to do more cruising here on the Chesapeake Bay and I wanted to improve the disposal of the grey water resulting from use of the shower. The current set-up has the shower drain dumping directly into the bilge (I have the two cabin model, so my single head sits forward of the mast). I don’t like the idea of grey water sloshing around in the bilge, so my plan was to run a 1” hose from the drain through the holes in the frames such that the shower drains directly into the lower bilge, where the bilge pump sits, where it can be easily pumped out following a shower. > > As I got into the project yesterday I was shocked to discover that one frame – the one that sits underneath the mast support – is solid, with no hole to allow bilge water to move backward. The reason this shocked me is that I had been cruising the prior weekend and my guests and I took three showers, yet there is no water in the compartment where the shower drains. How is the water moving toward the bilge compartments aft of the mast? My assumption is that when the boat is heeled over (we had a great sail coming home from the cruise and were heeled over for several hours) the water exits the compartment and flows backward by running up the side, and around/above the frames. It is surprising that there is literally zero water remaining under the shower, but at least that is possible. And I can’t think of any other way the water can flow backward from the shower drain. > > What I can’t figure out is either 1) how the drain/sump/pump out was originally configured and 2) how I can elegantly collect and evacuate this grey water. The compartment directly under the shower is tiny, and wouldn’t hold more than a gallon or two; no room there for a shower sump. Also, I see zero indication of a pump – I have the original electrical panel (unfortunately) and there is nothing that indicates any pump was ever located forward for this purpose. I can’t believe that the original design was to dump the shower drain into a bilge compartment which can only drain aft if the boat heels over, but what the original design was, and how I might configure a solution today, is a mystery to me. > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Rick Stuntz s/v “Hotspur” > > > >

I have a 1983 Cal 39 Mk III, also in Chesapeake Bay, with the head in the same place. My shower sump pump is located under the small seat right next to the mast against the bulkhead and pumps overboard. Her home port is Solomons Island so if you are ever there let me know if you want to take a look, I would be happy to show you. Jim Richardson S/V Mary Regina Solomons Island, MD

Kris Thanks for the suggestion. I was not familiar with the product. I like what it can do, but the $350 price tag is rather daunting. Rick From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 1:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Shower drain Whale Intelligent Gulley pump. Very elegant solution and you can run the output hose out of the boat and have no nasty bilge water. I have the two-inlet sump version and have one side hooked to the shower drain and the other is capped right now but is either going to be the water that drains back from the anchor locker or perhaps the sink drain and eliminate a through-hull. On Sep 12, 2015, at 07:44, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ri… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Hopefully one or more of you can help me solve this puzzle. I have a 1979 Cal 39 MKII. I intend to do more cruising here on the Chesapeake Bay and I wanted to improve the disposal of the grey water resulting from use of the shower. The current set-up has the shower drain dumping directly into the bilge (I have the two cabin model, so my single head sits forward of the mast). I don’t like the idea of grey water sloshing around in the bilge, so my plan was to run a 1” hose from the drain through the holes in the frames such that the shower drains directly into the lower bilge, where the bilge pump sits, where it can be easily pumped out following a shower. As I got into the project yesterday I was shocked to discover that one frame – the one that sits underneath the mast support – is solid, with no hole to allow bilge water to move backward. The reason this shocked me is that I had been cruising the prior weekend and my guests and I took three showers, yet there is no water in the compartment where the shower drains. How is the water moving toward the bilge compartments aft of the mast? My assumption is that when the boat is heeled over (we had a great sail coming home from the cruise and were heeled over for several hours) the water exits the compartment and flows backward by running up the side, and around/above the frames. It is surprising that there is literally zero water remaining under the shower, but at least that is possible. And I can’t think of any other way the water can flow backward from the shower drain. What I can’t figure out is either 1) how the drain/sump/pump out was originally configured and 2) how I can elegantly collect and evacuate this grey water. The compartment directly under the shower is tiny, and wouldn’t hold more than a gallon or two; no room there for a shower sump. Also, I see zero indication of a pump – I have the original electrical panel (unfortunately) and there is nothing that indicates any pump was ever located forward for this purpose. I can’t believe that the original design was to dump the shower drain into a bilge compartment which can only drain aft if the boat heels over, but what the original design was, and how I might configure a solution today, is a mystery to me. Thanks in advance for your help. Rick Stuntz s/v “Hotspur”

Jim Thanks for the kind offer to check out your installation. I may take you up on that the next time I sail down to Solomons. On my boat the area below the seat you described is aft of the frame that has no limber hole at the low point. I had one thought re: this missing hole: the support for the mast may have been renewed/strengthened, and perhaps a hole that had been there was subsequently glassed over. Regardless, I have no way currently to move grey water aft from the shower drain. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 12:45 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Shower drain I have a 1983 Cal 39 Mk III, also in Chesapeake Bay, with the head in the same place. My shower sump pump is located under the small seat right next to the mast against the bulkhead and pumps overboard. Her home port is Solomons Island so if you are ever there let me know if you want to take a look, I would be happy to show you. Jim Richardson S/V Mary Regina Solomons Island, MD

Defender has them for $250 right now and I can get them for the everyday low price of $230ish depending on where you live. The two inlet version is a few bucks more. Kris From: "'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 9:27 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Shower drain Kris Thanks for the suggestion. I was not familiar with the product. I like what it can do, but the $350 price tag is rather daunting. Rick From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 1:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Shower drain Whale Intelligent Gulley pump. Very elegant solution and you can run the output hose out of the boat and have no nasty bilge water. I have the two-inlet sump version and have one side hooked to the shower drain and the other is capped right now but is either going to be the water that drains back from the anchor locker or perhaps the sink drain and eliminate a through-hull. On Sep 12, 2015, at 07:44, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hopefully one or more of you can help me solve this puzzle.I have a 1979 Cal 39 MKII. I intend to do more cruising here on the Chesapeake Bay and I wanted to improve the disposal of the grey water resulting from use of the shower. The current set-up has the shower drain dumping directly into the bilge (I have the two cabin model, so my single head sits forward of the mast). I don’t like the idea of grey water sloshing around in the bilge, so my plan was to run a 1” hose from the drain through the holes in the frames such that the shower drains directly into the lower bilge, where the bilge pump sits, where it can be easily pumped out following a shower. As I got into the project yesterday I was shocked to discover that one frame – the one that sits underneath the mast support – is solid, with no hole to allow bilge water to move backward. The reason this shocked me is that I had been cruising the prior weekend and my guests and I took three showers, yet there is no water in the compartment where the shower drains. How is the water moving toward the bilge compartments aft of the mast? My assumption is that when the boat is heeled over (we had a great sail coming home from the cruise and were heeled over for several hours) the water exits the compartment and flows backward by running up the side, and around/above the frames. It is surprising that there is literally zero water remaining under the shower, but at least that is possible. And I can’t think of any other way the water can flow backward from the shower drain.What I can’t figure out is either 1) how the drain/sump/pump out was originally configured and 2) how I can elegantly collect and evacuate this grey water. The compartment directly under the shower is tiny, and wouldn’t hold more than a gallon or two; no room there for a shower sump. Also, I see zero indication of a pump – I have the original electrical panel (unfortunately) and there is nothing that indicates any pump was ever located forward for this purpose. I can’t believe that the original design was to dump the shower drain into a bilge compartment which can only drain aft if the boat heels over, but what the original design was, and how I might configure a solution today, is a mystery to me.Thanks in advance for your help.Rick Stuntz s/v “Hotspur”

Rick, I too found the floor under the mast step was glassed over. I had assumed that it was a manufacturing error. Not it appears to be a design defect. I simply got out my 1.5 inch hole saw and added a limber hole. You might mount a thru hull fitting in the limber hole and connect a hose to an additional bilge pump. I would also add an overflow limber hole nearer the cockpit sole. Regards, Duane Duane Knize S/V Marlyn 1978 Cal 2-39 #18 berthed: Emeryville, CA kn… [at] san.rr.com On 9/12/2015 7:44 AM, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > Hopefully one or more of you can help me solve this puzzle. > > I have a 1979 Cal 39 MKII. I intend to do more cruising here on the > Chesapeake Bay and I wanted to improve the disposal of the grey water > resulting from use of the shower. The current set-up has the shower > drain dumping directly into the bilge (I have the two cabin model, so > my single head sits forward of the mast). I don’t like the idea of > grey water sloshing around in the bilge, so my plan was to run a 1” > hose from the drain through the holes in the frames such that the > shower drains directly into the lower bilge, where the bilge pump > sits, where it can be easily pumped out following a shower. > > As I got into the project yesterday I was shocked to discover that one > frame – the one that sits underneath the mast support – is solid, with > no hole to allow bilge water to move backward. The reason this shocked > me is that I had been cruising the prior weekend and my guests and I > took three showers, yet there is no water in the compartment where the > shower drains. How is the water moving toward the bilge compartments > aft of the mast? My assumption is that when the boat is heeled over > (we had a great sail coming home from the cruise and were heeled over > for several hours) the water exits the compartment and flows backward > by running up the side, and around/above the frames. It is surprising > that there is literally zero water remaining under the shower, but at > least that is possible. And I can’t think of any other way the water > can flow backward from the shower drain. > > What I can’t figure out is either 1) how the drain/sump/pump out was > originally configured and 2) how I can elegantly collect and evacuate > this grey water. The compartment directly under the shower is tiny, > and wouldn’t hold more than a gallon or two; no room there for a > shower sump. Also, I see zero indication of a pump – I have the > original electrical panel (unfortunately) and there is nothing that > indicates any pump was ever located forward for this purpose. I can’t > believe that the original design was to dump the shower drain into a > bilge compartment which can only drain aft if the boat heels over, but > what the original design was, and how I might configure a solution > today, is a mystery to me. > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Rick Stuntz s/v “Hotspur” > >

I have a Cal39 Mkll, hull # 115 so should be very similar in construction I recently discovered standing water in front bilge after some work on the knot meter transducer. (same area as the shower would drain into, and before the frame running athwart-ships under the mast). The water would very slowly drain away, into the main bilge (under the salon table). I suspected a plugged drain hole in that frame but I could not find the hole. I took up the sole in the front cabin to investigate (not fun) and found a very large amount of sediment had filled the are and plugged the drain hole. I was a relatively easy job to clean out the sludge from the drain holes. To avoid having to pull up the floor boats again to repeat the clean-out, I added a thin line running thru all the drain holes (anchoring the fore and aft ends) so that a few tugs at either end would free any new accumulation in the drain holes. you may have to remove the sole in the forward cabin to access the drain holes. Jeff, Cal39MkII S/V Ecco

Jeff I was excited when I saw your email and immediately went down to the boat, hoping to find that I had failed to identify a blocked drain hole. Alas, that frame on my boat has no drain, at least not in the lower portion of the bilge; I tapped all along the lower edge and it is solid fiberglass. I will have to implement a to-be-determined Plan B to deal with the shower drain. Rick From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 1:04 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Shower drain I have a Cal39 Mkll, hull # 115 so should be very similar in construction I recently discovered standing water in front bilge after some work on the knot meter transducer. (same area as the shower would drain into, and before the frame running athwart-ships under the mast). The water would very slowly drain away, into the main bilge (under the salon table). I suspected a plugged drain hole in that frame but I could not find the hole. I took up the sole in the front cabin to investigate (not fun) and found a very large amount of sediment had filled the are and plugged the drain hole. I was a relatively easy job to clean out the sludge from the drain holes. To avoid having to pull up the floor boats again to repeat the clean-out, I added a thin line running thru all the drain holes (anchoring the fore and aft ends) so that a few tugs at either end would free any new accumulation in the drain holes. you may have to remove the sole in the forward cabin to access the drain holes. Jeff, Cal39MkII S/V Ecco

Rick, BUMMER! I guess we can attribute the difference between boats to the "craft" nature of Cal fabrication practices at the time where no two copies were alike. Jeff From: "'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Cal Boats" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 5:26:00 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Shower drain Jeff I was excited when I saw your email and immediately went down to the boat, hoping to find that I had failed to identify a blocked drain hole. Alas, that frame on my boat has no drain, at least not in the lower portion of the bilge; I tapped all along the lower edge and it is solid fiberglass. I will have to implement a to-be-determined Plan B to deal with the shower drain. Rick From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 1:04 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Shower drain I have a Cal39 Mkll, hull # 115 so should be very similar in construction I recently discovered standing water in front bilge after some work on the knot meter transducer. (same area as the shower would drain into, and before the frame running athwart-ships under the mast). The water would very slowly drain away, into the main bilge (under the salon table). I suspected a plugged drain hole in that frame but I could not find the hole. I took up the sole in the front cabin to investigate (not fun) and found a very large amount of sediment had filled the are and plugged the drain hole. I was a relatively easy job to clean out the sludge from the drain holes. To avoid having to pull up the floor boats again to repeat the clean-out, I added a thin line running thru all the drain holes (anchoring the fore and aft ends) so that a few tugs at either end would free any new accumulation in the drain holes. you may have to remove the sole in the forward cabin to access the drain holes. Jeff, Cal39MkII S/V Ecco