RE: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : now Main halyard Winch

OK..wow. I’m still translating this But the backstays: there are two from the transom with a ‘spreader’ of sorts that meet and go to the top of the mast. The track on the back of the mast has some little clips that the luff attaches to. I did lube those and it does drop pretty fast and sometimes I’ve had to go to the mast and help it down the last 18” or so. (auto-tiller is nice) Maybe it’s just sail weight or tension and friction in the system. Is the boom fixed or on a slider: I don’t know. It has the gooseneck that pivots, of course. Anyway, I’ll go look her over this eve again. There’s no wind so I should be able to raise the main in the slip. And Blue Pelican has a winch for me, but Paul there said they don’t ship. Arrgghh. OK I guess I’m driving to Alameda this weekend. Thanks for all of this great info! ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:25 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review True on the singlehanding aspect. Two people working together can effectively "sway-on" or "jump" a halyard to the appropriate tension up to about a 30 footer in less time than it takes to pop the winch handle in and out. By yourself is a different story. Ease of use becomes the primary consideration. What is the track arrangement on the back of the mast? Slugs, slides, bolt-rope in a groove? The last bit is always the hardest but it should be within reason. You may have a bind. I have Strong Track on my 35 and I can raise the main all the way to the truck without a winch. It's just the weight of the sail. One or two clicks on the winch and it's good to go. This is a single straight across the top external halyard, winches and cleats on the mast. Almost no friction points. If you let go of the halyard without it on the winch, get out of the way as the whole sail crashes down in about a second. My last boat (Spirit 28) needed a winch handle for the last 6-10 inches. Halyard was internal, led back to the cockpit and had plastic rectangular slugs in a groove on the mast. That's three blocks, an Exit plate, and a stopper ahead of the winch. That one when you went to drop it, you popped the stopper and about 10 inches would jump through and then it would stop. You then went up to the mast and pulled it down flaking it as you went. The friction of all that stuff kept it from dropping. Got easier when I downsized from the original 3/8'ths to 5/16'ths. Anyway, that same friction that causes you to have to pull it down is there on the way up too. Other question: is your boom fixed or is it on a slider on the mast? Don't have a Cal 25 to observe in my location but I remember several boats of that era having sliding booms that you used to set your luff tension rather than the halyard. _____ From: "'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review Thanks Kris. It might be a luxury, but it was there. The PO set it up for easy single-handing. There are clinchers in front of it. I’m OK with luxury. The boat is a luxury! : ) But since it’s there, I want it to be a functional thing. There may be another issue but it almost takes the winch to raise it the last 6 inches or so. I’m learning every day. This evening I’m adding some ‘fixed’ reef lines. There are two points but no lines. (I know….WTF?) Thanks. ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:33 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review The Marelon winches are really no good for anything that has a cleat. They are best used as a snubbing winch for a hand-held sheet. I'm of the opinion that they should not have a socket in the top at all. If you have to crank on it, you should be using a metal winch. Don't waste your time trying to find a Barient specifically. They are around but any manufacturers metal winch in the approximately "fist-sized" range is what you need. The smallest sizes are all more than adequate for your boat. A halyard winch on a 25 is a luxury item anyway. The little Barient, a Barlow 16, Harken, Arco, Lewmar 6, 7, 8, doesn't matter, just needs to be in reasonable shape. Clean it up, re-grease and carry on. Be careful with the ones with a composite interior. No issues with strength really but if the deck where you're mounting it is not perfectly flat, when you tighten up the mounting bolts, you crack the base. Have to put it on a pad or use some fender washers to shim out any crown in the deck. Check Craigslist in your area or the guy you know with the pile of winches. Ebay has several of various brands for under $100, some as cheap as $40. Also Blue Pelican consignment shop in Alameda has gobs as well. The key factors are small, metal and inexpensive. Anything used, or looks like it's been refurbed, make sure you take it apart to see that all the pawls and springs are there unless you're getting it really cheap. Parts for some older winches (Barient, Barlow) can be difficult to find sometimes but in most cases, if they are still in there, they'll work fine for decades once you clean them up. _____ From: "Horsehideperfecto ho… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review Wow...that is quite a story. Here are my thoughts: A size 6 single speed winch is too light for your application as you have proved, twice. Buy yourself a barient size 10... They used these as cabintop winches on a j-24, they are cheap and it will work. You can probably find an old pair for about $100. They are old winches and some parts may not be available so I would get a second for spare parts. I would also incorporate a way to clutch this halyard before the winch since it will place a constant strain on the winch and pump a bit in a sea way. Pete On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:26 AM, 'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello, Nobody has asked but here is my recent experience with Forespar Marelon #6 winches. My 2-25 came with one deck-mounted for the main halyard. It’s a small, #6, synthetic. Initially, it seemed fine but within a short period of time, the ‘plastic’ gear started to deform under the metal handle and it would ‘cam’ out. I contacted Forespar and they sent me a new one but he also said…no more. After only 2 outings, using the unit within its design parameters; sail size and boat LOA and handle length; it has failed again. This time the pawls inside ‘bent’ and cracked. I pull the sheet most of the way manually pointed into the wind, then use the winch with a double-wrap to get the last 6-8” with the boom ‘loose’. Regardless, I will not use that piece again. I’m now searching for a #10, at least, METAL winch for the main. This is just MY experience. It may be an anomaly. Or, am I doing something wrong? …tom _____ <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> Avast logo This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> _____ <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> Avast logo This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Tom,Best thing I did on my 29 was to put the Strong Track system on. The original design was an external track that the slides hopefully went up and down on. But if was blowing and you needed that main down it was a fight to get it down. Personal experience. Now not a prob, release the halyard and down it comes. Technology.David Dobbs CAL29 411 On Thursday, January 14, 2016 6:20 PM, "'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: OK..wow. I’m still translating thisBut the backstays: there are two from the transom with a ‘spreader’ of sorts that meet and go to the top of the mast.The track on the back of the mast has some little clips that the luff attaches to.I did lube those and it does drop pretty fast and sometimes I’ve had to go to the mast and help it down the last 18” or so.(auto-tiller is nice)Maybe it’s just sail weight or tension and friction in the system.Is the boom fixed or on a slider: I don’t know. It has the gooseneck that pivots, of course.Anyway, I’ll go look her over this eve again. There’s no wind so I should be able to raise the main in the slip.And Blue Pelican has a winch for me, but Paul there said they don’t ship.Arrgghh.OK I guess I’m driving to Alameda this weekend. Thanks for all of this great info! ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:25 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review True on the singlehanding aspect. Two people working together can effectively "sway-on" or "jump" a halyard to the appropriate tension up to about a 30 footer in less time than it takes to pop the winch handle in and out. By yourself is a different story. Ease of use becomes the primary consideration. What is the track arrangement on the back of the mast? Slugs, slides, bolt-rope in a groove? The last bit is always the hardest but it should be within reason. You may have a bind. I have Strong Track on my 35 and I can raise the main all the way to the truck without a winch. It's just the weight of the sail. One or two clicks on the winch and it's good to go. This is a single straight across the top external halyard, winches and cleats on the mast. Almost no friction points. If you let go of the halyard without it on the winch, get out of the way as the whole sail crashes down in about a second. My last boat (Spirit 28) needed a winch handle for the last 6-10 inches. Halyard was internal, led back to the cockpit and had plastic rectangular slugs in a groove on the mast. That's three blocks, an Exit plate, and a stopper ahead of the winch. That one when you went to drop it, you popped the stopper and about 10 inches would jump through and then it would stop. You then went up to the mast and pulled it down flaking it as you went. The friction of all that stuff kept it from dropping. Got easier when I downsized from the original 3/8'ths to 5/16'ths. Anyway, that same friction that causes you to have to pull it down is there on the way up too. Other question: is your boom fixed or is it on a slider on the mast? Don't have a Cal 25 to observe in my location but I remember several boats of that era having sliding booms that you used to set your luff tension rather than the halyard. From: "'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review Thanks Kris.It might be a luxury, but it was there.The PO set it up for easy single-handing. There are clinchers in front of it.I’m OK with luxury. The boat is a luxury!: )But since it’s there, I want it to be a functional thing.There may be another issue but it almost takes the winch to raise it the last 6 inches or so.I’m learning every day.This evening I’m adding some ‘fixed’ reef lines. There are two points but no lines.(I know….WTF?) Thanks...tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:33 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review The Marelon winches are really no good for anything that has a cleat. They are best used as a snubbing winch for a hand-held sheet. I'm of the opinion that they should not have a socket in the top at all. If you have to crank on it, you should be using a metal winch. Don't waste your time trying to find a Barient specifically. They are around but any manufacturers metal winch in the approximately "fist-sized" range is what you need. The smallest sizes are all more than adequate for your boat. A halyard winch on a 25 is a luxury item anyway. The little Barient, a Barlow 16, Harken, Arco, Lewmar 6, 7, 8, doesn't matter, just needs to be in reasonable shape. Clean it up, re-grease and carry on. Be careful with the ones with a composite interior. No issues with strength really but if the deck where you're mounting it is not perfectly flat, when you tighten up the mounting bolts, you crack the base. Have to put it on a pad or use some fender washers to shim out any crown in the deck. Check Craigslist in your area or the guy you know with the pile of winches. Ebay has several of various brands for under $100, some as cheap as $40. Also Blue Pelican consignment shop in Alameda has gobs as well. The key factors are small, metal and inexpensive. Anything used, or looks like it's been refurbed, make sure you take it apart to see that all the pawls and springs are there unless you're getting it really cheap. Parts for some older winches (Barient, Barlow) can be difficult to find sometimes but in most cases, if they are still in there, they'll work fine for decades once you clean them up. From: "Horsehideperfecto ho… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review Wow...that is quite a story. Here are my thoughts: A size 6 single speed winch is too light for your application as you have proved, twice. Buy yourself a barient size 10... They used these as cabintop winches on a j-24, they are cheap and it will work. You can probably find an old pair for about $100. They are old winches and some parts may not be available so I would get a second for spare parts. I would also incorporate a way to clutch this halyard before the winch since it will place a constant strain on the winch and pump a bit in a sea way. Pete On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:26 AM, 'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello,Nobody has asked but here is my recent experience with Forespar Marelon #6 winches. My 2-25 came with one deck-mounted for the main halyard. It’s a small, #6, synthetic.Initially, it seemed fine but within a short period of time, the ‘plastic’ gear started to deform under the metal handle and it would ‘cam’ out.I contacted Forespar and they sent me a new one but he also said…no more.After only 2 outings, using the unit within its design parameters; sail size and boat LOA and handle length; it has failed again.This time the pawls inside ‘bent’ and cracked.I pull the sheet most of the way manually pointed into the wind, then use the winch with a double-wrap to get the last 6-8” with the boom ‘loose’. Regardless, I will not use that piece again.I’m now searching for a #10, at least, METAL winch for the main.This is just MY experience. It may be an anomaly.Or, am I doing something wrong? …tom | | This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com | | | This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com | | | This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com |

Sorry, there are so many old salts on this board that I forget sometimes I'm also "broadcasting" to people who are just getting into sailing and have come here to learn. If you don't have a copy of Royce's Sailing Illustrated, pick one up at Blue Pelican. Much good info and a fairly extensive glossary of nautical lingo. If they're cheap, get two. One for the boat, one for the top of the toilet tank at home. May as well fill your mind while emptying your bowels... The reason I ask about the slider at the gooseneck is I've seen people put the slider at the top and leave it in place then raise the main. In that case, depending on the length of the luff, they may be trying to pull it up too high. Most boats that were raced will have black bands on the mast and boom showing the limits of where they are supposed to stretch the sail. In the case of a sliding gooseneck, you would raise the main till the top of the sail is at the black band and cleat it. Then pull down on the gooseneck to tension the luff. If the gooseneck doesn't slide up and down (fixed) then luff tension is all via the main halyard (or a cunningham if you have one) In that case the main is usually built slightly short so there is some room to stretch when tensioned. I would expect on a boat you size to see at least 6 inches to a foot of space between the headboard at the top of the sail and the top of the track the slide are on. Are your slides metal clips that go on the outside of a stainless steel or bronze track that is screwed to the back of the mast, or is there an internal groove "molded" (extruded actually) as part of the mast that has "slugs" of plastic or metal that attach to the sail slide in the groove? From: "'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 4:20 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : now Main halyard Winch OK..wow. I’m still translating thisBut the backstays: there are two from the transom with a ‘spreader’ of sorts that meet and go to the top of the mast.The track on the back of the mast has some little clips that the luff attaches to.I did lube those and it does drop pretty fast and sometimes I’ve had to go to the mast and help it down the last 18” or so.(auto-tiller is nice)Maybe it’s just sail weight or tension and friction in the system.Is the boom fixed or on a slider: I don’t know. It has the gooseneck that pivots, of course.Anyway, I’ll go look her over this eve again. There’s no wind so I should be able to raise the main in the slip.And Blue Pelican has a winch for me, but Paul there said they don’t ship.Arrgghh.OK I guess I’m driving to Alameda this weekend. Thanks for all of this great info! ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:25 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review True on the singlehanding aspect. Two people working together can effectively "sway-on" or "jump" a halyard to the appropriate tension up to about a 30 footer in less time than it takes to pop the winch handle in and out. By yourself is a different story. Ease of use becomes the primary consideration. What is the track arrangement on the back of the mast? Slugs, slides, bolt-rope in a groove? The last bit is always the hardest but it should be within reason. You may have a bind. I have Strong Track on my 35 and I can raise the main all the way to the truck without a winch. It's just the weight of the sail. One or two clicks on the winch and it's good to go. This is a single straight across the top external halyard, winches and cleats on the mast. Almost no friction points. If you let go of the halyard without it on the winch, get out of the way as the whole sail crashes down in about a second. My last boat (Spirit 28) needed a winch handle for the last 6-10 inches. Halyard was internal, led back to the cockpit and had plastic rectangular slugs in a groove on the mast. That's three blocks, an Exit plate, and a stopper ahead of the winch. That one when you went to drop it, you popped the stopper and about 10 inches would jump through and then it would stop. You then went up to the mast and pulled it down flaking it as you went. The friction of all that stuff kept it from dropping. Got easier when I downsized from the original 3/8'ths to 5/16'ths. Anyway, that same friction that causes you to have to pull it down is there on the way up too. Other question: is your boom fixed or is it on a slider on the mast? Don't have a Cal 25 to observe in my location but I remember several boats of that era having sliding booms that you used to set your luff tension rather than the halyard. From: "'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review Thanks Kris.It might be a luxury, but it was there.The PO set it up for easy single-handing. There are clinchers in front of it.I’m OK with luxury. The boat is a luxury!: )But since it’s there, I want it to be a functional thing.There may be another issue but it almost takes the winch to raise it the last 6 inches or so.I’m learning every day.This evening I’m adding some ‘fixed’ reef lines. There are two points but no lines.(I know….WTF?) Thanks...tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:33 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review The Marelon winches are really no good for anything that has a cleat. They are best used as a snubbing winch for a hand-held sheet. I'm of the opinion that they should not have a socket in the top at all. If you have to crank on it, you should be using a metal winch. Don't waste your time trying to find a Barient specifically. They are around but any manufacturers metal winch in the approximately "fist-sized" range is what you need. The smallest sizes are all more than adequate for your boat. A halyard winch on a 25 is a luxury item anyway. The little Barient, a Barlow 16, Harken, Arco, Lewmar 6, 7, 8, doesn't matter, just needs to be in reasonable shape. Clean it up, re-grease and carry on. Be careful with the ones with a composite interior. No issues with strength really but if the deck where you're mounting it is not perfectly flat, when you tighten up the mounting bolts, you crack the base. Have to put it on a pad or use some fender washers to shim out any crown in the deck. Check Craigslist in your area or the guy you know with the pile of winches. Ebay has several of various brands for under $100, some as cheap as $40. Also Blue Pelican consignment shop in Alameda has gobs as well. The key factors are small, metal and inexpensive. Anything used, or looks like it's been refurbed, make sure you take it apart to see that all the pawls and springs are there unless you're getting it really cheap. Parts for some older winches (Barient, Barlow) can be difficult to find sometimes but in most cases, if they are still in there, they'll work fine for decades once you clean them up. From: "Horsehideperfecto ho… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Forespar Marelon Winches : My review Wow...that is quite a story. Here are my thoughts: A size 6 single speed winch is too light for your application as you have proved, twice. Buy yourself a barient size 10... They used these as cabintop winches on a j-24, they are cheap and it will work. You can probably find an old pair for about $100. They are old winches and some parts may not be available so I would get a second for spare parts. I would also incorporate a way to clutch this halyard before the winch since it will place a constant strain on the winch and pump a bit in a sea way. Pete On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:26 AM, 'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello,Nobody has asked but here is my recent experience with Forespar Marelon #6 winches. My 2-25 came with one deck-mounted for the main halyard. It’s a small, #6, synthetic.Initially, it seemed fine but within a short period of time, the ‘plastic’ gear started to deform under the metal handle and it would ‘cam’ out.I contacted Forespar and they sent me a new one but he also said…no more.After only 2 outings, using the unit within its design parameters; sail size and boat LOA and handle length; it has failed again.This time the pawls inside ‘bent’ and cracked.I pull the sheet most of the way manually pointed into the wind, then use the winch with a double-wrap to get the last 6-8” with the boom ‘loose’. Regardless, I will not use that piece again.I’m now searching for a #10, at least, METAL winch for the main.This is just MY experience. It may be an anomaly.Or, am I doing something wrong? …tom | | This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com | | | This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com | | | This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com |