Waterlogged rudder, etc.

I restored stem to stern, inside and out, a 1969 Cal 28 flush deck that I just completed over the summer. The last project is a beautiful rolling and tipping job. Inside and out she looks brand new. When I had her on the hard to paint her, the rudder was dripping water. A fiberglass guy and I drilled some holes in the bottom of it to allow the water to escape but the bottom line is that even though most of it stopped after baking in the sun for two weeks, the glass guy says it's probably waterlogged from an old leak. This presents a problem I have to address. One, take it off and have someone try to repair it, which the glass guy says he might be able to do or have a new one made. There's a company near Gainesville, FL called Foss Foam and they do excellent work according to my glass guy. I spoke with Al there and he said it might be repairable depending on a few things, chiefly the condition of the tangs. He also said he could build a brand new one for $1500, which my glass guy says is a bargain. Has anyone had any experience with waterlogged rudders. What did you do? Maybe someone has a rudder that's in good shape they'd like to sell. It's a spade rudder and might be the original. The glass guy said it might be because the boat came from Lake Michigan and might've been frozen one time too many. Also, the specs for this boat says it displaces 6,000. When they had it on the lift last summer they told me she weighs better than 9,000 lb. I know it isn't waterlogged so how can that be? When I got her she had the Atomic 4 engine on a vee drive. It was hopeless so I removed it and the shaft, had the hole professionally filled and powered her with a 9.9 hp 4-stroke Yamaha on an extended shaft with a high thrust prop. I also had the rudder and engine connected so that when you turn the helm (It's been converted to helm steering) the rudder and engine work in tandem, which makes steering, turning and docking a dream. My glass guy says his guess is that the specs weight is the bare weight of the boat post production before anything was added. Anyone have any idea why the weight difference? Thanks for all help and suggestions. Will post photos soon. California Girl is a beauty and always turns heads, even in tony marinas. I spent considerably more than the $1500 delinquent dock fee that I paid for her during the two year restoration. Stem to stern, port to starboard, complete interior, etc. It's essentially a brand new boat and it shows. But I do need help with the above questions. Joe PalmerFernandina Beach, FL

My 2 cents. I think most rudders have water in them. It becomes a problem when it either delams the glass from the foam via water breaking down the foam or freezing when on the hard and pushing the outer skin away from the foam. My cal 29 rudder skin was split right down the middle when I got my boat. I sanded the skin off and reglassed it myself. I have not had any problems, but I sail on the chesapeake where is it usually light air. I think the one of the big issues w old rudders is that even stainless steel tends to corrode a few inches inside the rudder where it cannot be seen. My understanding is that stainless loses some of it's anti corrosive properties when it is in an oxygen depleted environment, but don't quote me on that. I have heard nothing but good things about FOSS from some on this forum. Given the risks associated with a rudder failure, new would probably be a decision you would not regret. East Coast Cal 29 sailor. On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 3:56 PM, jo… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > I restored stem to stern, inside and out, a 1969 Cal 28 flush deck that I > just completed over the summer. The last project is a beautiful rolling and > tipping job. Inside and out she looks brand new. When I had her on the hard > to paint her, the rudder was dripping water. A fiberglass guy and I drilled > some holes in the bottom of it to allow the water to escape but the bottom > line is that even though most of it stopped after baking in the sun for two > weeks, the glass guy says it's probably waterlogged from an old leak. This > presents a problem I have to address. One, take it off and have someone try > to repair it, which the glass guy says he might be able to do or have a new > one made. There's a company near Gainesville, FL called Foss Foam and they > do excellent work according to my glass guy. I spoke with Al there and he > said it might be repairable depending on a few things, chiefly the > condition of the tangs. He also said he could build a brand new one for > $1500, which my glass guy says is a bargain. Has anyone had any experience > with waterlogged rudders. What did you do? Maybe someone has a rudder > that's in good shape they'd like to sell. It's a spade rudder and might be > the original. The glass guy said it might be because the boat came from > Lake Michigan and might've been frozen one time too many. > > Also, the specs for this boat says it displaces 6,000. When they had it on > the lift last summer they told me she weighs better than 9,000 lb. I know > it isn't waterlogged so how can that be? When I got her she had the Atomic > 4 engine on a vee drive. It was hopeless so I removed it and the shaft, had > the hole professionally filled and powered her with a 9.9 hp 4-stroke > Yamaha on an extended shaft with a high thrust prop. I also had the rudder > and engine connected so that when you turn the helm (It's been converted to > helm steering) the rudder and engine work in tandem, which makes steering, > turning and docking a dream. My glass guy says his guess is that the specs > weight is the bare weight of the boat post production before anything was > added. Anyone have any idea why the weight difference? > > Thanks for all help and suggestions. Will post photos soon. California > Girl is a beauty and always turns heads, even in tony marinas. I spent > considerably more than the $1500 delinquent dock fee that I paid for her > during the two year restoration. Stem to stern, port to starboard, complete > interior, etc. It's essentially a brand new boat and it shows. > > But I do need help with the above questions. > > Joe Palmer > Fernandina Beach, FL > > >

Thank you, my friend. Yeah, the rudder had an old repair job that my fiberglass guy found when he sanded it down last summer to see if he could find the source of the leak. There were a number of significant cracks on it that had been filled. And then whoever did the job glommed on something that almost looked like Bondo on top of that, so it might well have been the source. But be that as it may, the age of the rudder and its waterlogged condition worries me because I know that even stainless steel tangs will break down and corrode if exposed to salt water long enough. The new rudder seems to be wisest. Unless someone out there in Cal Forums land is holding one in good shape they wish to part with.

Hello fellow Cal 28 afficianados. Four years ago I purchased a forlorn and run down Cal 28 flush deck abandoned at a local marina for the delinquent $1500 slip fee. She'd been sitting in her berth nine years without going anywhere. But the hull cleaned up nice with small blisters here and there that were easily mended and when I retired several years ago, I set out to make her a new boat again. I spent $25,000 doing it but my wife and I now have a brand new looking oat that turns all heads and we've fallen in love with her. But ... and there's always one of those sticking out somewhere, isn't there? When I had her on the hard rolling and tipping her last summer, water leaked nonstop from her rudder. I drilled holes in the bottom to facilitate the drainage, vacuum pumped what appeared to be most of it out but it continued to dribble. A friend who's a fiberglass expert took a look at it and said the core probably is waterlogged. He said we could probably cut off the very tip of the rudder and allow it to sit up a month or so and completely dry, then re-glass it. However, he said that the tangs could also be corroded after all this time and that the rudder could eventually fail - not something I want to think about since my wife finally quit working last week and we now have time to sail and travel on it more. There's a company in Williston Florida called Foss Foam and they rebuild and build lots of classic rudders, including the Cal 28 spade rudder. I spoke to the owner, Al, who said he could make me a brand new one for $1500, which my glass guy says he can't even beat. He also is familiar with the company and says they do quality work. Has anyone else encountered this problem and what did you do and/or what are your recommendations? Maybe one of you has or knows where to find a spade rudder for a Cal 28. Mine has been converted from tiller steering to helm. It'll make dropping the rudder a little more complicated. I need all the advice and help I can get on this. Also, when the lift operator pulled California Girl from the water, he told me she weighs better than 9,000 pounds. How can this be when the specs say 6,000? She had an Atomic 4 on a vee-drive when I got her but after I rebuilt the engine and got it running again, it finally just gave up the ghost. I pulled the engine and shaft out, glassed in the hole and powered it with a 9.9 4-stroke Yamaha on an extended shaft with a high thrust prop. I also worked with a friend to rig my helm so that the rudder and motor are synchronized when I turn the wheel. Much easier to handle that way. But how can there be better than 3,000 lbs weight difference in what the specs say. My glass guy says she isn't waterlogged. He suspects the specs are just bare weight of vessel post-manufacture before anything from the mast down to the lifelines are added. Any ideas? I will post some photos of her soon. Good to be here. Thanks for any help or comments. Joe Palmer Fernandina Beach, FL

BTW, nice choice on the 9.9 high trust. I did the same thing on my cal 29, took out the old engine and put a 9.9 HT on it. Love it!! One thing I will say about the 9.9 is it is pretty sensitive to ethanol. My carb clogged after a year of intermittent use. If you are near a place where you can buy fuel w/o ethanol, I would. If not, I would add the fuel stabilizers that are available out there. I also find mine really likes it if after I get to the slip, I disconnect the fuel line and run the fuel out of it. It always starts up well the next time when I do that. My 9.9 is 12 years old, other then that, no problems and pushes the boat well. East Coast Cal 29 sailor. On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 5:23 PM, jo… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Hello fellow Cal 28 afficianados. Four years ago I purchased a forlorn and > run down Cal 28 flush deck abandoned at a local marina for the delinquent > $1500 slip fee. She'd been sitting in her berth nine years without going > anywhere. But the hull cleaned up nice with small blisters here and there > that were easily mended and when I retired several years ago, I set out to > make her a new boat again. I spent $25,000 doing it but my wife and I now > have a brand new looking oat that turns all heads and we've fallen in love > with her. > > > But ... and there's always one of those sticking out somewhere, isn't > there? When I had her on the hard rolling and tipping her last summer, > water leaked nonstop from her rudder. I drilled holes in the bottom to > facilitate the drainage, vacuum pumped what appeared to be most of it out > but it continued to dribble. A friend who's a fiberglass expert took a look > at it and said the core probably is waterlogged. He said we could probably > cut off the very tip of the rudder and allow it to sit up a month or so and > completely dry, then re-glass it. However, he said that the tangs could > also be corroded after all this time and that the rudder could eventually > fail - not something I want to think about since my wife finally quit > working last week and we now have time to sail and travel on it more. > There's a company in Williston Florida called Foss Foam and they rebuild > and build lots of classic rudders, including the Cal 28 spade rudder. I > spoke to the owner, Al, who said he could make me a brand new one for > $1500, which my glass guy says he can't even beat. He also is familiar with > the company and says they do quality work. > > > Has anyone else encountered this problem and what did you do and/or what > are your recommendations? Maybe one of you has or knows where to find a > spade rudder for a Cal 28. Mine has been converted from tiller steering to > helm. It'll make dropping the rudder a little more complicated. I need all > the advice and help I can get on this. > > > Also, when the lift operator pulled California Girl from the water, he > told me she weighs better than 9,000 pounds. How can this be when the specs > say 6,000? She had an Atomic 4 on a vee-drive when I got her but after I > rebuilt the engine and got it running again, it finally just gave up the > ghost. I pulled the engine and shaft out, glassed in the hole and powered > it with a 9.9 4-stroke Yamaha on an extended shaft with a high thrust prop. > I also worked with a friend to rig my helm so that the rudder and motor are > synchronized when I turn the wheel. Much easier to handle that way. But how > can there be better than 3,000 lbs weight difference in what the specs say. > My glass guy says she isn't waterlogged. He suspects the specs are just > bare weight of vessel post-manufacture before anything from the mast down > to the lifelines are added. Any ideas? > > > I will post some photos of her soon. Good to be here. Thanks for any help > or comments. > > > Joe Palmer > > Fernandina Beach, FL > > >

Joe, Very common for boats to weigh heavier than the "brochure weight". I think that's usually the "design weight". If there were no excess glass and resin in the layup, etc. And like your glass guy mentioned, nothing but the hull. Also all fiberglass absorbs water over time. If your boat lives in the water, it has gained some water weight. My old 28 (not a Cal) was supposed to weigh 6900 according to sailboatdata.com. When they picked it up ship it to Seattle they weighed it on the commercial calibrated scale prior to putting it on a flat and it weighed nearly 12,000 lbs! I expected a few K because all my sailing gear and upcoming project materials were inside it but was really taken aback by the "extra" weight. The boat was not a floundering hippo either. It felt light and lively under sail and would often sail with much larger boats speed wise. I think the only boats that commonly weigh very close to their "official" weight are One Design boats that use various techniques like Vacuum Bagging and such to ensure consistency in the laminate. Kris > On Feb 9, 2016, at 14:23, jo… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Hello fellow Cal 28 afficianados. Four years ago I purchased a forlorn and run down Cal 28 flush deck abandoned at a local marina for the delinquent $1500 slip fee. She'd been sitting in her berth nine years without going anywhere. But the hull cleaned up nice with small blisters here and there that were easily mended and when I retired several years ago, I set out to make her a new boat again. I spent $25,000 doing it but my wife and I now have a brand new looking oat that turns all heads and we've fallen in love with her. > > > > But ... and there's always one of those sticking out somewhere, isn't there? When I had her on the hard rolling and tipping her last summer, water leaked nonstop from her rudder. I drilled holes in the bottom to facilitate the drainage, vacuum pumped what appeared to be most of it out but it continued to dribble. A friend who's a fiberglass expert took a look at it and said the core probably is waterlogged. He said we could probably cut off the very tip of the rudder and allow it to sit up a month or so and completely dry, then re-glass it. However, he said that the tangs could also be corroded after all this time and that the rudder could eventually fail - not something I want to think about since my wife finally quit working last week and we now have time to sail and travel on it more. There's a company in Williston Florida called Foss Foam and they rebuild and build lots of classic rudders, including the Cal 28 spade rudder. I spoke to the owner, Al, who said he could make me a brand new one for $1500, which my glass guy says he can't even beat. He also is familiar with the company and says they do quality work. > > > > Has anyone else encountered this problem and what did you do and/or what are your recommendations? Maybe one of you has or knows where to find a spade rudder for a Cal 28. Mine has been converted from tiller steering to helm. It'll make dropping the rudder a little more complicated. I need all the advice and help I can get on this. > > > > Also, when the lift operator pulled California Girl from the water, he told me she weighs better than 9,000 pounds. How can this be when the specs say 6,000? She had an Atomic 4 on a vee-drive when I got her but after I rebuilt the engine and got it running again, it finally just gave up the ghost. I pulled the engine and shaft out, glassed in the hole and powered it with a 9.9 4-stroke Yamaha on an extended shaft with a high thrust prop. I also worked with a friend to rig my helm so that the rudder and motor are synchronized when I turn the wheel. Much easier to handle that way. But how can there be better than 3,000 lbs weight difference in what the specs say. My glass guy says she isn't waterlogged. He suspects the specs are just bare weight of vessel post-manufacture before anything from the mast down to the lifelines are added. Any ideas? > > > > I will post some photos of her soon. Good to be here. Thanks for any help or comments. > > > > Joe Palmer > > Fernandina Beach, FL > >

Hi, Joe. On your early note, I’ve found that I am not cc’d on notes I send to the list. If you bcc yourself, you get your note back. If anyone can help, I’m still trying to figure out how to get an automatic cc on what I send. I’ve seen a lot on soggy rudders. I think the entry is usually around the rudder post entry to the rudder. A good idea to put a shim donut over the rudder post at install to prevent glass to glass contact as the rudder bounces up and down. The rudders float when in decent shape. I also have a cheap trick on tightening the rudder post inside the shaft (soda bottle shims). There are 2 Foss operations, one in FL and one in CA. I’m told that the CA Foss has more templates for vintage rudders. They did the original CALs (as I’m told). I bought several CAL 25 rudders from them (not all for my boat) and have been pleased. Price was around $900 including shipping to the East Coast a few years back. Not sure about the better source for the spades, but the answer is Foss in one place or another. CAL 25s, as a one design racer, do not allow the spade rudder. If I pull the boat in the winter (I race Annapolis Frostbites, so that is rare), I take the rudder home an put it in a warmer environment. A rudder with water inside (as is common) can freeze and explode like an overripe melon (looks pretty gross) when exposed to freezing temps in a boat yard. Drill a few holes in the bottom and Glass them in when you reinstall. Take Care Charlie Husar Annapolis CAL 25 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 5:23 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Waterlogged rudder, etc. Hello fellow Cal 28 afficianados. Four years ago I purchased a forlorn and run down Cal 28 flush deck abandoned at a local marina for the delinquent $1500 slip fee. She'd been sitting in her berth nine years without going anywhere. But the hull cleaned up nice with small blisters here and there that were easily mended and when I retired several years ago, I set out to make her a new boat again. I spent $25,000 doing it but my wife and I now have a brand new looking oat that turns all heads and we've fallen in love with her. But ... and there's always one of those sticking out somewhere, isn't there? When I had her on the hard rolling and tipping her last summer, water leaked nonstop from her rudder. I drilled holes in the bottom to facilitate the drainage, vacuum pumped what appeared to be most of it out but it continued to dribble. A friend who's a fiberglass expert took a look at it and said the core probably is waterlogged. He said we could probably cut off the very tip of the rudder and allow it to sit up a month or so and completely dry, then re-glass it. However, he said that the tangs could also be corroded after all this time and that the rudder could eventually fail - not something I want to think about since my wife finally quit working last week and we now have time to sail and travel on it more. There's a company in Williston Florida called Foss Foam and they rebuild and build lots of classic rudders, including the Cal 28 spade rudder. I spoke to the owner, Al, who said he could make me a brand new one for $1500, which my glass guy says he can't even beat. He also is familiar with the company and says they do quality work. Has anyone else encountered this problem and what did you do and/or what are your recommendations? Maybe one of you has or knows where to find a spade rudder for a Cal 28. Mine has been converted from tiller steering to helm. It'll make dropping the rudder a little more complicated. I need all the advice and help I can get on this. Also, when the lift operator pulled California Girl from the water, he told me she weighs better than 9,000 pounds. How can this be when the specs say 6,000? She had an Atomic 4 on a vee-drive when I got her but after I rebuilt the engine and got it running again, it finally just gave up the ghost. I pulled the engine and shaft out, glassed in the hole and powered it with a 9.9 4-stroke Yamaha on an extended shaft with a high thrust prop. I also worked with a friend to rig my helm so that the rudder and motor are synchronized when I turn the wheel. Much easier to handle that way. But how can there be better than 3,000 lbs weight difference in what the specs say. My glass guy says she isn't waterlogged. He suspects the specs are just bare weight of vessel post-manufacture before anything from the mast down to the lifelines are added. Any ideas? I will post some photos of her soon. Good to be here. Thanks for any help or comments. Joe Palmer Fernandina Beach, FL

Thank you, Charlie. The votes for Foss are adding up fast. I was impressed with the guy. He even invited me to come over and see their operation, which I'll probably do because it's only shortly more than an hour away. He did say he'd build me a new one for $1500. My fiberglass guy said to pin him down to that because he knows a couple of people who've been quoted that and it's gone over. But Al was pretty firm about it. When he said he'd build me a new one for $1500 I asked him if I'd heard him correctly and he said yes, $1500. Thanks for the info on rudder tending, too. Every little bit helps. Maybe one of these Cal 28 people will have a rudder they want to get rid of if it's in good shape. I have to think mine's as old as the boat. That would make it 46 years old unless it's been replaced. I wish I could trace the ownership. The guy who abandoned it trucked it here from Michigan where he raced it but he wasn't the original owner and I've lost touch with him.

Thank you, Kris. I sort of guessed she does have a little water weight but she's still riding high and dry above the boot stripe. And like you mentioned re yours, she's very light on her feet and sails uber fast. I'm not much of a racer but I've won one local club race and did very well in two others, one that I won across the line handily but lost to a C&C 25 with a high handicap. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Another racing buddy of mine said that back in the old days the companies sometimes fudged a bit on the weight for boats that were raced a lot. I won't say Cal did that but it is an alternative explanation. I will say this also. Originally I just had the Yamaha outboard mounted stationary and did all my navigating/steering with helm and rudder. She was an unpredictable pig until I made some way and got water flowing under the keel. A buddy of mine who's a mechanical genius solved the problem at lunch one day on a dinner napkin designing a steering collar off the steering collar. We went to the Yamaha dealer and ordered a Teleflex cable and assembly and my buddy built the rest of the guts from aluminum plate stock. At walking speed I could angle park it and she'll pivot on a bit more than a quarter of a helm. It's amazing. He's now applying for a patent on the design and will use my boat as his prototype.

On 2/9/2016 5:44 PM, 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > BTW, nice choice on the 9.9 high trust. I did the same thing on my > cal 29, took out the old engine and put a 9.9 HT on it. > Love it!! One thing I will say about the 9.9 is it is pretty > sensitive to ethanol. My carb clogged after a year of intermittent use. > If you are near a place where you can buy fuel w/o ethanol, I would. > If not, I would add the fuel stabilizers that are available out there. > I also find mine really likes it if after I get to the slip, I > disconnect the fuel line and run the fuel out of it. I'll second this. My marina's gas was very pricey so I kept hauling gas-station gas to the boat. And the outboards kept complaining. Then I learned that the marina's gas is recreation gas, alcohol-free gas, and I started using it for my outboards and for my lawn mowers. All the little engines are MUCH happier. On one outboard the gas pick-up tube had actually rusted through where the alcohol had absorbed moisture from the air and separated out. Ethanol is just another way to spell evil. Chris Campbell

Chris - I have a fuel polishing biz and my machine will filter out all the water and other contaminates from diesel or gas but with ethanol there is no point, you just have to get rid of it. 99% of my business is disposing of bad ethanol. I tell all my customers not to put any more ethanol in their boat than they will burn in a month. Paul From: ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2016 9:54 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Waterlogged rudder, etc. On 2/9/2016 5:44 PM, 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: BTW, nice choice on the 9.9 high trust. I did the same thing on my cal 29, took out the old engine and put a 9.9 HT on it. Love it!! One thing I will say about the 9.9 is it is pretty sensitive to ethanol. My carb clogged after a year of intermittent use. If you are near a place where you can buy fuel w/o ethanol, I would. If not, I would add the fuel stabilizers that are available out there. I also find mine really likes it if after I get to the slip, I disconnect the fuel line and run the fuel out of it. I'll second this. My marina's gas was very pricey so I kept hauling gas-station gas to the boat. And the outboards kept complaining. Then I learned that the marina's gas is recreation gas, alcohol-free gas, and I started using it for my outboards and for my lawn mowers. All the little engines are MUCH happier. On one outboard the gas pick-up tube had actually rusted through where the alcohol had absorbed moisture from the air and separated out. Ethanol is just another way to spell evil. Chris Campbell

On 2/10/2016 10:03 AM, pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > Chris - > > I have a fuel polishing biz and my machine will filter out all the > water and other contaminates from diesel or gas but with ethanol there > is no point, you just have to get rid of it. 99% of my business is > disposing of bad ethanol. I tell all my customers not to put any more > ethanol in their boat than they will burn in a month. Problem is that we sailors tend to sail more and power less, so the gas can sit a long time. In fact, my Cal 20 is on a mooring, so I usually sail on/sail off and use no gas at all. I find that the ethanol-free gas actually lasts a long time, especially when it's periodically renewed with a dose of fresh gas. Those folks who use their boats as floating condos and never actually sail will use more fuel. I see a bunch of those around here. On a nice calm day they'll power out of the marina and putt around for a while, and if they are really bold they'll unfurl the jib for a few minutes. Chris > >

Several local gas stations here now carry marine grade gasoline because ours is such a boating community. It's a good buck a gallon cheaper than at marinas. If you have a little three or four gallon tank, it's easy to fill it at the station and take it to your boat. If you have a fifteen or twenty gallon tank, it's still much cheaper to fill up four 5 gal jerry cans and take it to your boat than filling at the marina. A little more physical hassle but much cheaper on the wallet. On the other hand, marina gas is now cheaper than what we got used to paying at the pump for ethanol for so long that it's kind of a wash I suppose.

Paul,I'm confused. Are you talking about ethanol cooking fuel? (I'm guessing not). I use automotive fuel in my 2 cylce OB and only had a bad gas problem once that caused me running failure, and that was fixed by adding more fresh gas to the small quantity I'd had in my 6 gal. plastic tank. I've gone months without running my OB and it started up OK.Except for some Palmer tractor engines, I'm assuming most of this discussion is about Atomic 4's. Of course, there are a lot of smaller boats with OB aux's, and increasingly, a greater percentage are 4 cycles. I'm staying with older 2 cycles because my OB is on a scissors mount bolted to the stern, and I've got a wine-glass stern which tapers to a point, so it has little reserve buoyancy there, and, since I race, I try to keep weight which will cause hobby-horsing to a limit...and my back is too feeble to take the OB off the mount and put it below like I used to with my one lung Suzuki 4. I did have a "mystery" problem with my OB a few years ago, but that was traced to a bad primary coil lead wire that was gradually damaged by rubbing against the flywheel.Jerry of Shpritz On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 7:04 AM, "pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Chris - I have a fuel polishing biz and my machine will filter out all the water and other contaminates from diesel or gas but with ethanol there is no point, you just have to get rid of it. 99% of my business is disposing of bad ethanol. I tell all my customers not to put any more ethanol in their boat than they will burn in a month. Paul From: ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2016 9:54 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Waterlogged rudder, etc. On 2/9/2016 5:44 PM, 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: BTW, nice choice on the 9.9 high trust. I did the same thing on my cal 29, took out the old engine and put a 9.9 HT on it. Love it!! One thing I will say about the 9.9 is it is pretty sensitive to ethanol. My carb clogged after a year of intermittent use. If you are near a place where you can buy fuel w/o ethanol, I would. If not, I would add the fuel stabilizers that are available out there. I also find mine really likes it if after I get to the slip, I disconnect the fuel line and run the fuel out of it. I'll second this. My marina's gas was very pricey so I kept hauling gas-station gas to the boat. And the outboards kept complaining. Then I learned that the marina's gas is recreation gas, alcohol-free gas, and I started using it for my outboards and for my lawn mowers. All the little engines are MUCH happier. On one outboard the gas pick-up tube had actually rusted through where the alcohol had absorbed moisture from the air and separated out. Ethanol is just another way to spell evil. Chris Campbell

Jerry - No, we refer to gas with alcohol in it as ethanol, sorry. If you can keep the moist air out of your tank that will lessen the potential for a problem. What happens is the alcohol absorbs the moisture out of the air, then microbes (aka algae) grows in it and/or the water and alcohol separate from the fuel and you start having issues. Paul From: Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2016 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Ethanol was Waterlogged rudder, etc. Paul, I'm confused. Are you talking about ethanol cooking fuel? (I'm guessing not). I use automotive fuel in my 2 cylce OB and only had a bad gas problem once that caused me running failure, and that was fixed by adding more fresh gas to the small quantity I'd had in my 6 gal. plastic tank. I've gone months without running my OB and it started up OK. Except for some Palmer tractor engines, I'm assuming most of this discussion is about Atomic 4's. Of course, there are a lot of smaller boats with OB aux's, and increasingly, a greater percentage are 4 cycles. I'm staying with older 2 cycles because my OB is on a scissors mount bolted to the stern, and I've got a wine-glass stern which tapers to a point, so it has little reserve buoyancy there, and, since I race, I try to keep weight which will cause hobby-horsing to a limit...and my back is too feeble to take the OB off the mount and put it below like I used to with my one lung Suzuki 4. I did have a "mystery" problem with my OB a few years ago, but that was traced to a bad primary coil lead wire that was gradually damaged by rubbing against the flywheel. Jerry of Shpritz On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 7:04 AM, "pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Chris - I have a fuel polishing biz and my machine will filter out all the water and other contaminates from diesel or gas but with ethanol there is no point, you just have to get rid of it. 99% of my business is disposing of bad ethanol. I tell all my customers not to put any more ethanol in their boat than they will burn in a month. Paul From: ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2016 9:54 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Waterlogged rudder, etc. On 2/9/2016 5:44 PM, 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: BTW, nice choice on the 9.9 high trust. I did the same thing on my cal 29, took out the old engine and put a 9.9 HT on it. Love it!! One thing I will say about the 9.9 is it is pretty sensitive to ethanol. My carb clogged after a year of intermittent use. If you are near a place where you can buy fuel w/o ethanol, I would. If not, I would add the fuel stabilizers that are available out there. I also find mine really likes it if after I get to the slip, I disconnect the fuel line and run the fuel out of it. I'll second this. My marina's gas was very pricey so I kept hauling gas-station gas to the boat. And the outboards kept complaining. Then I learned that the marina's gas is recreation gas, alcohol-free gas, and I started using it for my outboards and for my lawn mowers. All the little engines are MUCH happier. On one outboard the gas pick-up tube had actually rusted through where the alcohol had absorbed moisture from the air and separated out. Ethanol is just another way to spell evil. Chris Campbell

Jerry,ANY small engine, especially 2-cycle, are damaged by using ethanol blended fuel. I have had to get my snowblower, lawnmower, and yard vac engines repaired, and the carb on my A4 replaced for that reason. I have no access to ethanol-free fuel unless I drive 63 miles, one way. That stuff is poison. And unnecessary. It's crap. The mechanics hate it, even though they get more business because of it. David Dobbs CAL29 411 On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:00 PM, "Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Paul,I'm confused. Are you talking about ethanol cooking fuel? (I'm guessing not). I use automotive fuel in my 2 cylce OB and only had a bad gas problem once that caused me running failure, and that was fixed by adding more fresh gas to the small quantity I'd had in my 6 gal. plastic tank. I've gone months without running my OB and it started up OK.Except for some Palmer tractor engines, I'm assuming most of this discussion is about Atomic 4's. Of course, there are a lot of smaller boats with OB aux's, and increasingly, a greater percentage are 4 cycles. I'm staying with older 2 cycles because my OB is on a scissors mount bolted to the stern, and I've got a wine-glass stern which tapers to a point, so it has little reserve buoyancy there, and, since I race, I try to keep weight which will cause hobby-horsing to a limit...and my back is too feeble to take the OB off the mount and put it below like I used to with my one lung Suzuki 4. I did have a "mystery" problem with my OB a few years ago, but that was traced to a bad primary coil lead wire that was gradually damaged by rubbing against the flywheel.Jerry of Shpritz On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 7:04 AM, "pw… [at] aol.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Chris - I have a fuel polishing biz and my machine will filter out all the water and other contaminates from diesel or gas but with ethanol there is no point, you just have to get rid of it. 99% of my business is disposing of bad ethanol. I tell all my customers not to put any more ethanol in their boat than they will burn in a month. Paul From: ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2016 9:54 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Waterlogged rudder, etc. On 2/9/2016 5:44 PM, 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: BTW, nice choice on the 9.9 high trust. I did the same thing on my cal 29, took out the old engine and put a 9.9 HT on it. Love it!! One thing I will say about the 9.9 is it is pretty sensitive to ethanol. My carb clogged after a year of intermittent use. If you are near a place where you can buy fuel w/o ethanol, I would. If not, I would add the fuel stabilizers that are available out there. I also find mine really likes it if after I get to the slip, I disconnect the fuel line and run the fuel out of it. I'll second this. My marina's gas was very pricey so I kept hauling gas-station gas to the boat. And the outboards kept complaining. Then I learned that the marina's gas is recreation gas, alcohol-free gas, and I started using it for my outboards and for my lawn mowers. All the little engines are MUCH happier. On one outboard the gas pick-up tube had actually rusted through where the alcohol had absorbed moisture from the air and separated out. Ethanol is just another way to spell evil. Chris Campbell

I would definitely go for the all new rudder. Just getting the new rudder post will be a major benefit. The old tangs welded to the old post and the post itself have had lots of repeated loads and stresses over the years and so have accumulated fatigue damage over the years. Stress corrosion damage- stress combined with corrosion - is impossible to predict but has surely occurred. Besides you may end up paying more to repair the old one than all new. I speak from 40 years mechanical engineering experience in various fabrication shops, many of which did repairs on older machines as well as made new. Greg

I tried 100 LL and it was great. Aviation Fuel - 100LL for Small Engines? - SmokStak http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99603 http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99603 Aviation Fuel - 100LL for Small Engines? - SmokStak http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99603 Aviation Fuel - 100LL for Small Engines? Well here we are in the Winter months... started up all my B&S engines on New Year's Day for a wake up call. Kinda Fu... View on www.smokstak.com http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99603 Preview by Yahoo We use a fuel stabilization product called Sta-Bil around here when using auto fuel. But the experiment with aviation fuel was great. The 15 hp mercury ran great. It's expensive but worth it for peace of mind. I'd continue to use Sta-Bil since you have water condensing inside partially filled tanks anyway. George Barlow - Texas

Hey everyone I went to a workshop at the wooden boat show in Port Townend concerning outboards. The trouble seems to be around the differences in gas and the way it is manufactured. In order to save money has is not made the way it used to be. Octane rating is boosted by ethanol and other carbon chains, such as propane, that are not stable when exposed to air at normal temperatures. Some of these evaporate readily, some of these are hydrophilic (actively take in humidity and bond with that water). In a fully closed container with little air, dark and cool environment pump gas can be kept for some time. Several months for sure. In a fuel tank with an open vent, this is a very different proposal. Personally I don't think additives are going to do much to this situation. The best is to use fresh fuel and if this proves difficult do to low use, cycle the fuel off the boat into you car or some other high use tank in your life. Diesel is very different. But I do believe ethanol is a major reason for fuel polishing businesses. Tom Cal 39 Serendiptiy Crane Island

As I understand it, the problem with C2H5OH is that it may damage the kind of rubber found in old engines. However, if you've taken any flight lessons, you know that draining out condensed water from your gas tank is part of every pre-flight. So using av-gas doesn't fully protect you from water-in-the-gas or carb disease. The best thing is to run your engine till it quits when you get back to the dock, and don't depend on small quantities of fuel in you tank that has been sitting in months to get you home when the wind dies. Maybe carrying a gallon of gas, filled completely, with a tite fitting cap, is a good insurance policy if you find yourself doing that...like me. When I was in Brazil, a large percentage of the cars ran on pure alcohol. On Friday, February 12, 2016 11:54 AM, "th… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hey everyone I went to a workshop at the wooden boat show in Port Townend concerning outboards. The trouble seems to be around the differences in gas and the way it is manufactured. In order to save money has is not made the way it used to be. Octane rating is boosted by ethanol and other carbon chains, such as propane, that are not stable when exposed to air at normal temperatures. Some of these evaporate readily, some of these are hydrophilic (actively take in humidity and bond with that water). In a fully closed container with little air, dark and cool environment pump gas can be kept for some time. Several months for sure. In a fuel tank with an open vent, this is a very different proposal. Personally I don't think additives are going to do much to this situation. The best is to use fresh fuel and if this proves difficult do to low use, cycle the fuel off the boat into you car or some other high use tank in your life. Diesel is very different. But I do believe ethanol is a major reason for fuel polishing businesses. Tom Cal 39 Serendiptiy Crane Island -- {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} {margin-bottom:10px;} .yiv9648530220ad {padding:0 0;} .yiv9648530220ad p {margin:0;} .yiv9648530220ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} {font-family:Arial;} {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .yiv9648530220ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} span {font-weight:700;} span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;} span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} span span {color:#ff7900;} span .yiv9648530220underline {text-decoration:underline;} .yiv9648530220attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .yiv9648530220attach div a {text-decoration:none;} .yiv9648530220attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;} .yiv9648530220attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .yiv9648530220attach label a {text-decoration:none;} blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;} .yiv9648530220bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} .yiv9648530220bold a {text-decoration:none;} dd.yiv9648530220last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv9648530220last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv9648530220last p span.yiv9648530220yshortcuts {margin-right:0;} div.yiv9648530220attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv9648530220attach-table {width:400px;} div.yiv9648530220file-title a, div.yiv9648530220file-title a:active, div.yiv9648530220file-title a:hover, div.yiv9648530220file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv9648530220photo-title a, div.yiv9648530220photo-title a:active, div.yiv9648530220photo-title a:hover, div.yiv9648530220photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div p a span.yiv9648530220yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} .yiv9648530220green {color:#628c2a;} .yiv9648530220MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;} o {font-size:0;} div {float:left;width:72px;} div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} {font-size:77%;} {font-size:77%;} .yiv9648530220replbq {margin:4px;} div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} select, input, textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} pre, code {font:115% monospace;} * {line-height:1.22em;} {padding-bottom:10px;} p a {font-family:Verdana;} p span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} {font-family:Georgia;} p {margin:0 0 1em 0;} tt {font-size:120%;} ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}

Joseph, Magic, our 1979 2-27, lost her rudder about six years ago. The weld inside where the SS rudder post and mild steel webbing failed. A fellow sailor was able to recover the rudder. With help from another friend, we opened the rudder, and replace the internal metal with all SS. We put it back together, and the rudder was serviceable until last year when we discovered internal separation. Rather than trying to repair it again, I had a new rudder built by "The Foss Company" last summer. The Foss Company Makes Quality Sailboat Rudders and Dagger Boards that Can Be Shipped Anywhere in the World from Newport Beach, California I paid $1,100 for a new rudder. Shipping was about $100. Attached is the drawing. Call Don Proul at 949-646-0244. | | | | | | | | | | | The Foss Company Makes Quality Sailboat Rudders and...The Foss Company Makes Quality Sailboat Rudders and Dagger Boards that Can Be Shipped Anywhere in the World from Newport Beach, California | | | | View on www.boatrudder.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | Best of luck.... Magic is now for sale, as we moving up to something more suitable for long distance cruising. Feel free to give me a call at 954-531-4538 if you would like to discuss the rudder situation. Michael Duvalls/v Magic, Cal 2-27, #627, 1979Pompano Beach, FL From: "jo… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2016 3:56 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Waterlogged rudder, etc. I restored stem to stern, inside and out, a 1969 Cal 28 flush deck that I just completed over the summer. The last project is a beautiful rolling and tipping job. Inside and out she looks brand new. When I had her on the hard to paint her, the rudder was dripping water. A fiberglass guy and I drilled some holes in the bottom of it to allow the water to escape but the bottom line is that even though most of it stopped after baking in the sun for two weeks, the glass guy says it's probably waterlogged from an old leak. This presents a problem I have to address. One, take it off and have someone try to repair it, which the glass guy says he might be able to do or have a new one made. There's a company near Gainesville, FL called Foss Foam and they do excellent work according to my glass guy. I spoke with Al there and he said it might be repairable depending on a few things, chiefly the condition of the tangs. He also said he could build a brand new one for $1500, which my glass guy says is a bargain. Has anyone had any experience with waterlogged rudders. What did you do? Maybe someone has a rudder that's in good shape they'd like to sell. It's a spade rudder and might be the original. The glass guy said it might be because the boat came from Lake Michigan and might've been frozen one time too many. Also, the specs for this boat says it displaces 6,000. When they had it on the lift last summer they told me she weighs better than 9,000 lb. I know it isn't waterlogged so how can that be? When I got her she had the Atomic 4 engine on a vee drive. It was hopeless so I removed it and the shaft, had the hole professionally filled and powered her with a 9.9 hp 4-stroke Yamaha on an extended shaft with a high thrust prop. I also had the rudder and engine connected so that when you turn the helm (It's been converted to helm steering) the rudder and engine work in tandem, which makes steering, turning and docking a dream. My glass guy says his guess is that the specs weight is the bare weight of the boat post production before anything was added. Anyone have any idea why the weight difference? Thanks for all help and suggestions. Will post photos soon. California Girl is a beauty and always turns heads, even in tony marinas. I spent considerably more than the $1500 delinquent dock fee that I paid for her during the two year restoration. Stem to stern, port to starboard, complete interior, etc. It's essentially a brand new boat and it shows. But I do need help with the above questions. Joe PalmerFernandina Beach, FL -- {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} {margin-bottom:10px;} .yiv1684601956ad {padding:0 0;} .yiv1684601956ad p {margin:0;} .yiv1684601956ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} {font-family:Arial;} {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .yiv1684601956ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} span {font-weight:700;} span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;} span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} span span {color:#ff7900;} span .yiv1684601956underline {text-decoration:underline;} .yiv1684601956attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .yiv1684601956attach div a {text-decoration:none;} .yiv1684601956attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;} .yiv1684601956attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .yiv1684601956attach label a {text-decoration:none;} blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;} .yiv1684601956bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} .yiv1684601956bold a {text-decoration:none;} dd.yiv1684601956last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv1684601956last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv1684601956last p span.yiv1684601956yshortcuts {margin-right:0;} div.yiv1684601956attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv1684601956attach-table {width:400px;} div.yiv1684601956file-title a, div.yiv1684601956file-title a:active, div.yiv1684601956file-title a:hover, div.yiv1684601956file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv1684601956photo-title a, div.yiv1684601956photo-title a:active, div.yiv1684601956photo-title a:hover, div.yiv1684601956photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div p a span.yiv1684601956yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} .yiv1684601956green {color:#628c2a;} .yiv1684601956MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;} o {font-size:0;} div {float:left;width:72px;} div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} {font-size:77%;} {font-size:77%;} .yiv1684601956replbq {margin:4px;} div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} select, input, textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} pre, code {font:115% monospace;} * {line-height:1.22em;} {padding-bottom:10px;} p a {font-family:Verdana;} p span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} {font-family:Georgia;} p {margin:0 0 1em 0;} tt {font-size:120%;} ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}

Michael, sorry I'm so late getting back to you. I just now checked my messages for the week. I'm hearing a lot of good things about Foss Foam and that's probably the route I'll go. I'll save on shipping because they're within easy driving distance from me. My local fiberglass repair guy said he might be able to do it for me, too. He also has a great reputation but I don't know if he can beat Foss's price or not. That remains to be seen. Thanks for the phone number. I would definitely like to speak with you and will be in touch in the next few days. On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 9:39 AM, "Michael D md… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: [Attachment(s) from Michael D included below] Joseph, Magic, our 1979 2-27, lost her rudder about six years ago. The weld inside where the SS rudder post and mild steel webbing failed. A fellow sailor was able to recover the rudder. With help from another friend, we opened the rudder, and replace the internal metal with all SS. We put it back together, and the rudder was serviceable until last year when we discovered internal separation. Rather than trying to repair it again, I had a new rudder built by "The Foss Company" last summer. The Foss Company Makes Quality Sailboat Rudders and Dagger Boards that Can Be Shipped Anywhere in the World from Newport Beach, California I paid $1,100 for a new rudder. Shipping was about $100. Attached is the drawing. Call Don Proul at 949-646-0244. | | | | | | | | | | | The Foss Company Makes Quality Sailboat Rudders and...The Foss Company Makes Quality Sailboat Rudders and Dagger Boards that Can Be Shipped Anywhere in the World from Newport Beach, California | | | | View on www.boatrudder.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | Best of luck.... Magic is now for sale, as we moving up to something more suitable for long distance cruising. Feel free to give me a call at 954-531-4538 if you would like to discuss the rudder situation. Michael Duvalls/v Magic, Cal 2-27, #627, 1979Pompano Beach, FL From: "jo… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2016 3:56 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Waterlogged rudder, etc. I restored stem to stern, inside and out, a 1969 Cal 28 flush deck that I just completed over the summer. The last project is a beautiful rolling and tipping job. Inside and out she looks brand new. When I had her on the hard to paint her, the rudder was dripping water. A fiberglass guy and I drilled some holes in the bottom of it to allow the water to escape but the bottom line is that even though most of it stopped after baking in the sun for two weeks, the glass guy says it's probably waterlogged from an old leak. This presents a problem I have to address. One, take it off and have someone try to repair it, which the glass guy says he might be able to do or have a new one made. There's a company near Gainesville, FL called Foss Foam and they do excellent work according to my glass guy. I spoke with Al there and he said it might be repairable depending on a few things, chiefly the condition of the tangs. He also said he could build a brand new one for $1500, which my glass guy says is a bargain. Has anyone had any experience with waterlogged rudders. What did you do? Maybe someone has a rudder that's in good shape they'd like to sell. It's a spade rudder and might be the original. The glass guy said it might be because the boat came from Lake Michigan and might've been frozen one time too many. Also, the specs for this boat says it displaces 6,000. When they had it on the lift last summer they told me she weighs better than 9,000 lb. I know it isn't waterlogged so how can that be? When I got her she had the Atomic 4 engine on a vee drive. It was hopeless so I removed it and the shaft, had the hole professionally filled and powered her with a 9.9 hp 4-stroke Yamaha on an extended shaft with a high thrust prop. I also had the rudder and engine connected so that when you turn the helm (It's been converted to helm steering) the rudder and engine work in tandem, which makes steering, turning and docking a dream. My glass guy says his guess is that the specs weight is the bare weight of the boat post production before anything was added. Anyone have any idea why the weight difference? Thanks for all help and suggestions. Will post photos soon. California Girl is a beauty and always turns heads, even in tony marinas. I spent considerably more than the $1500 delinquent dock fee that I paid for her during the two year restoration. Stem to stern, port to starboard, complete interior, etc. It's essentially a brand new boat and it shows. But I do need help with the above questions. Joe PalmerFernandina Beach, FL

Thanks, Greg. I think that's the route I'm going. I received a message from Michael to my question and he's actually had a rudder for his Cal 27 built by Foss and highly recommends them. I'll save a bit in shipping because they're within easy driving distance of me. On Thursday, February 11, 2016 7:04 AM, "th… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I would definitely go for the all new rudder. Just getting the new rudder post will be a major benefit. The old tangs welded to the old post and the post itself have had lots of repeated loads and stresses over the years and so have accumulated fatigue damage over the years. Stress corrosion damage- stress combined with corrosion - is impossible to predict but has surely occurred. Besides you may end up paying more to repair the old one than all new. I speak from 40 years mechanical engineering experience in various fabrication shops, many of which did repairs on older machines as well as made new. Greg -- {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} {margin-bottom:10px;} .yiv9988703072ad {padding:0 0;} .yiv9988703072ad p {margin:0;} .yiv9988703072ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} {font-family:Arial;} {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .yiv9988703072ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} span {font-weight:700;} span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;} span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} span span {color:#ff7900;} span .yiv9988703072underline {text-decoration:underline;} .yiv9988703072attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .yiv9988703072attach div a {text-decoration:none;} .yiv9988703072attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;} .yiv9988703072attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .yiv9988703072attach label a {text-decoration:none;} blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;} .yiv9988703072bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} .yiv9988703072bold a {text-decoration:none;} dd.yiv9988703072last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv9988703072last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv9988703072last p span.yiv9988703072yshortcuts {margin-right:0;} div.yiv9988703072attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv9988703072attach-table {width:400px;} div.yiv9988703072file-title a, div.yiv9988703072file-title a:active, div.yiv9988703072file-title a:hover, div.yiv9988703072file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv9988703072photo-title a, div.yiv9988703072photo-title a:active, div.yiv9988703072photo-title a:hover, div.yiv9988703072photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div p a span.yiv9988703072yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} .yiv9988703072green {color:#628c2a;} .yiv9988703072MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;} o {font-size:0;} div {float:left;width:72px;} div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} {font-size:77%;} {font-size:77%;} .yiv9988703072replbq {margin:4px;} div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} select, input, textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} pre, code {font:115% monospace;} * {line-height:1.22em;} {padding-bottom:10px;} p a {font-family:Verdana;} p span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} {font-family:Georgia;} p {margin:0 0 1em 0;} tt {font-size:120%;} ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}