Diesel Engine Issues; Swell, Clark, & Amelia in todays UK Telegraph

I was just thinking if a warn cam could be the issue, but, that would prevent it from opening the valve and allowing the air-fuel mixture to intake the cylinder. Don't some diesels inject the fuel directly into the cylinder? You can see I don't know much. My GMC V-8 has a two stage injector in place of a carb on the inlet to the cylinders. Gee. If those old Merlins has something like that, they wouldn't have stalled out when the Spitfire pilots tried to pull negative G's. But as they say, if you change anything in history, then maybe none of us would have been born? Anyone see today's article on our friends aboard their intrepid Cal 40 Swell in today's UK Telegraph? Liz must have recovered from breaking her neck surfing in San Diego. Yeah, read about Liz's new crewmate!! My back is crumbling, but I'm going to be trying to race Shpritz this afternoon. Anyone besides me have crumbing lumbar issues at the ripe old age of 69? Somehow I didn't figure in a crumbing back at this stage of my life, but that's how it goes when make a few bad landings in your life. I comes back and bites you big time. Jerry, Shpritz. -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 4/26/16, Chris ch… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 12:53 PM I'd pull the injector and take it to a diesel mechanic. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android Hello Newman! : ) Thanks all, especially Joe Demers.Here’s what I have done recently.I removed the intake side to look at that piece..is it flowing? The air ‘filter’ is a bit gunked up but it does flow and I can feel the intake on my hand.And to see the valve and watch it actuate to see if it’s actually moving…and so satisfy my mechanical curiosity.A follow up conversation with Joe D suggests almost categorically that it isn’t seating because on the compression stroke, I see a spray coming back into the intake side. Since you asked: Yanmar YSM8. Single cyl, 8 bhp, no –pre-ignitor.Fuel tank - Racor filter – Lift pump – engine filter – injector pump – Injector and a return line.4 bleed points: Racor, engine filter, injector pump, injector.Yes, I did bleed the racor, the engine filter, the injector pump and the injector.It all squirts fuel.In doing so, the bleed port on the engine filter stripped so I replaced that entire assembly. I also bypassed it all and drew from a small quart bottle of fresh diesel straight into the injector pump.I am considering pulling the head and sending it out for a re-work.My day job keeps me off the dock all day and recently, it’s been crazy windy here in Monterey so I have not gone down to see her in the last few days.And I’m moving also so my time is stretched thin.I agree that it *SHOULD* go and I see areas that can be improved/repaired. I’m not giving up on the engine yet, much to the chagrin of the local ‘mechanics that want to re-power.Actually, my next step is to set the engine timing..position the flywheel to TDC and pull the head.Unless ‘you’ think otherwise.Thanks. ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; TomDressler Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat I am of the belief that old engines can be made to run just about forever if well maintained.As a hobby I restore old Caterpillar dozers. I currently own one 1949 and one 1955 D2 model machines. At one time I had four fully functional D2's, but thinned out the herd the past couple of years. They are old four cylinder slow turn diesels with two cylinder gas pony motor starters. These old machines start and run great after all these years. In repairing anything it is divide and conquer. Methodically go through all the systems, making sure things are correct. I am not totally familiar with your engine, so will just speak in general terms or about my Yanmar. We have a Yanmar 3GM30F in our 1986 Cal 33-2. The original engine and it runs fantastic. But I went through some heartache getting it to that point. But mine was all fuel issues. Final problem as a small crack in the fuel separator bowl allowing air to get into the fuel system. The engine would just quit at the worst possible times. In repairing this problem I also replaced all my rubber fuel line to and from the tank (in case it was collapsing internally), put a check valve at the fuel tank and bought a new fuel separator and fuel pump). I can cruise for hours no issues. But definitely I found a small crack in the separator bowl that was letting in air. I just wanted to kind of shotgun the fuel system since it was all original and showing its age. If your engine has not been torn apart, then hopefully all the timing is correct. So then you are dealing with air and fuel. The engine fires from heat of compression, so no spark to worry with. Eliminate things. Install a fuel line from the fuel pump directly into a container of diesel. Rule out the fuel separator and tank. I think you said you bypassed the fuel system. Bleed everything. On my engine there is a bleed on the final fuel filter and a bleed just before the injectors. I usually bleed at each injector as well until fuel is coming out the line leading to the injector. When bleeding have the compression lever flipped so no compression. Be aware not to let water get into your cylinder, so have the salt water inlet closed. Once you have fuel spitting out each injector line and you feel that all the air is out, tighten those lines and flip the compression back on and see if you can get it to pop. Does it pop at all? These old diesels will run just about forever. I had an old Caterpillar D7 (1957 model year) that I bought from a farmer. The machine had sit in a field for about 10 years, never started. He said "It was running when I parked it!". I wanted it to clear some land, then resell. The pony engine had a stuck piston and also ended up having a stuck valve. I freed that stuff up and the darn pony fired up. Then I found two stuck injector pumps on the diesel. The old Cat has a mechanical cam mechanism that works all the injector pumps and two of the pump plungers were stuck up. Once I got those free and cleaned the fuel system, changed the fluids, this old machine sitting in a field for ten years rumbled to life. It was amazing. I talked to an old Caterpillar mechanic once who said that even when the old engine had lost most of its compression and was belching oil, if you could spin it long enough for the cylinders to get hot it would start and run. And having a pony engine you can spin the engine as long as needed to get them to fire. So, to condemn your old Yanmar I would think it would need to have lots wrong with it. Broken rings, bad piston or some major problem, but even then that stuff can be fixed. On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:51 PM, 'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello all,Continuing this mindset..I’m asking the group for some physical as well as moral support.I have a Cal 2-25 with a Yanmar YSM8 single. I purchased it last October, knowing little about sailing except that I wanted to learn how.I named her Resa..Italian for surrender, and I have but she’s been challenging me lately.I’ve been working on the phone and e-mail with Joe Demers from Sound Marine Diesel; LLC SoundMarineDiesel.com (860) 666-2184 AWESOME guy! The problem is that he’s in Connecticut and I’m in Monterey, CA.Jeez, I even weighed the cost of flying you out here Joe! I’ve replaced filters, bled the fuel system many times and tried other things. It seems like it should go unless..rings, valves or worse.Is there anyone on this list that lives in the Monterey area that is familiar with the engine could help me at least ‘look’ at it or help diagnose?I’ve been told by two ‘mechanics’, without a lot of them debugging except charging me to bleed the fuel lines, that I simply should repower, because it’s old.(one of them told me I need a new glow plug. All diesels have ‘em, he argued, after I said..this single does not. He said..yes it does)“Well, it’s got No compression”“how do you know?” I asked.“you can tell by the sound”, he replied.I followed with” But when I open the compression release and close it, that’s affecting compression. Sounds the same as it did last month when it quit. Should or can we measure it?” Fine, I’ll consider a repower if it’s proven to me that I need that. But it seems that the cost of that will equal/exceed the initial purchase cost and certainly not be a return. ()I know, that should not be a factor, but I can’t see putting $5,000 into a $4500 boat. I'm not expecting a $-$ return, but I don’t want to do what isn’t necessary Helen, your guy, Kevin won’t come down until I “pay the yard to polish the fuel, remove and clean the fuel tank”I bypassed the fuel supply with a remote supply.I’m paying so-called mechanics to give me little feedback, except “we can re-power for you” Joe, I know you read this list. This is not about your INCREDIBLE support.I need someone local that has experience, before I “add to cart” a fresh engine.: ) Thanks..tom.. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 8:03 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat Hi, all, I typed up this response to the thread on selling a 2-27, with all the comments about selling at a loss and poor market for used boats. I posted it but then it bounced back with an error message so I'll try again. We all need to take a deep breath and realize that if we're boat owners to make a profit, we're in the wrong line of work. First of all, the problem isn't so much that sailing is dying, but that the boats aren't. Fiberglass sailboats are pretty durable, despite the known vulnerabilities (core rot, blisters, stainless corrosion, old engines). There are lots of choices out there, more very year. Way back in 1968, when we acquired my other boat, there were very few choices locally. Fiberglass was still relatively new and there wasn't a huge inventory of used boats. Now there is. So why do we own these money sinks? Easy, it's to go sailing. Sailing is like drinking coffee or beer--it's an acquired taste. But once you've acquired the taste, it's like my morning cup--I need it. Sailing is an opportunity to develop and use skills. The learning can go on and on. It's a challenge, an opportunity to face and surmount dangers. Water is not our natural element, and we have an imperfect ability to foresee weather or what's under the water. Usually the risks are small ones, like getting off the mooring cleanly, getting the sails up and avoiding collisions with other boats. Sometimes the challenges raise the heart rate a lot more. Sometimes we get wet and cold. Then there are the warm sunny days with the wind just right, and a good set of friends aboard. And always there the simple challenge of making the boat operate efficiently in whatever conditions we face. When we go sailing, we join a very old human activity. Our species has traveled under wind power on the water for generations. We enlist in a tradition when we become sailors. It's a tradition of self-reliance, applied skills, adaptability, and a bit of courage. Those are things we generally admire. For me, it's important that my boats look like somebody gives a damn. We should give a damn about a craft that's going to take us into the hostile environment that the water is. When I was just starting sailing a local guy had a Mercer 44, a stunningly lovely boat from Bill Tripp, with a dark blue hull. He was not inclined toward maintenance so in short order the boat looked shabby. I figured that anybody who could let such a gorgeous boat look crummy must have some significant moral deficiency. My annual ritual of maintenance has started on the other boat, a 1961 Bill Tripp design that isn't as breathtaking as that Mercer 44, but still catches the eye. She's got spruce spars and lots of mahogany--toe rails, coamings, hatches--and it's all maintained in a way that says "somebody cares." At 55 years old, it takes a lot of work, but once she's launched the compliments begin. "Hey, pretty boat!" My little Cal 20 attracts compliments, too. She's polished up each year, and the mahogany rudder and tiller are varnished. I've started on that already. She's a happy boat that gets sailed a lot. None of that work would be reimbursed adequately if I were to sell either one. I have no illusions about that. But both boats reimburse me each summer in the joy of making the boat go. One of the great privileges of living in the USA in the 21st century is being able to afford simple luxuries like our boats. As a young person I found much to be unhappy about. As an old person I have come to appreciate my extraordinary fortune to have been born in this age and location and to have encountered people who helped me become a sailor (among other good things). In short, I have become my father and I wish he were around now so I could say "Hey, Dad, you were right. Let's go sailing." Chris Campbell > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

Thanks. The intake valve is opening..I can see that. It appears to not be closing, based on a ‘backspray’ into the intake. I *THINK* this inject directly in to the cylinder, yes. When I get a breather from my current project, I’ll go manually turn the engine and watch it actuate again. ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 1:31 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Chris Subject: [Cal_Boats] Diesel Engine Issues; Swell, Clark, & Amelia in todays UK Telegraph I was just thinking if a warn cam could be the issue, but, that would prevent it from opening the valve and allowing the air-fuel mixture to intake the cylinder. Don't some diesels inject the fuel directly into the cylinder? You can see I don't know much. My GMC V-8 has a two stage injector in place of a carb on the inlet to the cylinders. Gee. If those old Merlins has something like that, they wouldn't have stalled out when the Spitfire pilots tried to pull negative G's. But as they say, if you change anything in history, then maybe none of us would have been born? Anyone see today's article on our friends aboard their intrepid Cal 40 Swell in today's UK Telegraph? Liz must have recovered from breaking her neck surfing in San Diego. Yeah, read about Liz's new crewmate!! My back is crumbling, but I'm going to be trying to race Shpritz this afternoon. Anyone besides me have crumbing lumbar issues at the ripe old age of 69? Somehow I didn't figure in a crumbing back at this stage of my life, but that's how it goes when make a few bad landings in your life. I comes back and bites you big time. Jerry, Shpritz. -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 4/26/16, Chris ch… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 12:53 PM I'd pull the injector and take it to a diesel mechanic. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android Hello Newman! : ) Thanks all, especially Joe Demers.Here’s what I have done recently.I removed the intake side to look at that piece..is it flowing? The air ‘filter’ is a bit gunked up but it does flow and I can feel the intake on my hand.And to see the valve and watch it actuate to see if it’s actually moving…and so satisfy my mechanical curiosity.A follow up conversation with Joe D suggests almost categorically that it isn’t seating because on the compression stroke, I see a spray coming back into the intake side. Since you asked: Yanmar YSM8. Single cyl, 8 bhp, no –pre-ignitor.Fuel tank - Racor filter – Lift pump – engine filter – injector pump – Injector and a return line.4 bleed points: Racor, engine filter, injector pump, injector.Yes, I did bleed the racor, the engine filter, the injector pump and the injector.It all squirts fuel.In doing so, the bleed port on the engine filter stripped so I replaced that entire assembly. I also bypassed it all and drew from a small quart bottle of fresh diesel straight into the injector pump.I am considering pulling the head and sending it out for a re-work.My day job keeps me off the dock all day and recently, it’s been crazy windy here in Monterey so I have not gone down to see her in the last few days.And I’m moving also so my time is stretched thin.I agree that it *SHOULD* go and I see areas that can be improved/repaired. I’m not giving up on the engine yet, much to the chagrin of the local ‘mechanics that want to re-power.Actually, my next step is to set the engine timing..position the flywheel to TDC and pull the head.Unless ‘you’ think otherwise.Thanks. ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; TomDressler Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat I am of the belief that old engines can be made to run just about forever if well maintained.As a hobby I restore old Caterpillar dozers. I currently own one 1949 and one 1955 D2 model machines. At one time I had four fully functional D2's, but thinned out the herd the past couple of years. They are old four cylinder slow turn diesels with two cylinder gas pony motor starters. These old machines start and run great after all these years. In repairing anything it is divide and conquer. Methodically go through all the systems, making sure things are correct. I am not totally familiar with your engine, so will just speak in general terms or about my Yanmar. We have a Yanmar 3GM30F in our 1986 Cal 33-2. The original engine and it runs fantastic. But I went through some heartache getting it to that point. But mine was all fuel issues. Final problem as a small crack in the fuel separator bowl allowing air to get into the fuel system. The engine would just quit at the worst possible times. In repairing this problem I also replaced all my rubber fuel line to and from the tank (in case it was collapsing internally), put a check valve at the fuel tank and bought a new fuel separator and fuel pump). I can cruise for hours no issues. But definitely I found a small crack in the separator bowl that was letting in air. I just wanted to kind of shotgun the fuel system since it was all original and showing its age. If your engine has not been torn apart, then hopefully all the timing is correct. So then you are dealing with air and fuel. The engine fires from heat of compression, so no spark to worry with. Eliminate things. Install a fuel line from the fuel pump directly into a container of diesel. Rule out the fuel separator and tank. I think you said you bypassed the fuel system. Bleed everything. On my engine there is a bleed on the final fuel filter and a bleed just before the injectors. I usually bleed at each injector as well until fuel is coming out the line leading to the injector. When bleeding have the compression lever flipped so no compression. Be aware not to let water get into your cylinder, so have the salt water inlet closed. Once you have fuel spitting out each injector line and you feel that all the air is out, tighten those lines and flip the compression back on and see if you can get it to pop. Does it pop at all? These old diesels will run just about forever. I had an old Caterpillar D7 (1957 model year) that I bought from a farmer. The machine had sit in a field for about 10 years, never started. He said "It was running when I parked it!". I wanted it to clear some land, then resell. The pony engine had a stuck piston and also ended up having a stuck valve. I freed that stuff up and the darn pony fired up. Then I found two stuck injector pumps on the diesel. The old Cat has a mechanical cam mechanism that works all the injector pumps and two of the pump plungers were stuck up. Once I got those free and cleaned the fuel system, changed the fluids, this old machine sitting in a field for ten years rumbled to life. It was amazing. I talked to an old Caterpillar mechanic once who said that even when the old engine had lost most of its compression and was belching oil, if you could spin it long enough for the cylinders to get hot it would start and run. And having a pony engine you can spin the engine as long as needed to get them to fire. So, to condemn your old Yanmar I would think it would need to have lots wrong with it. Broken rings, bad piston or some major problem, but even then that stuff can be fixed. On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:51 PM, 'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello all,Continuing this mindset..I’m asking the group for some physical as well as moral support.I have a Cal 2-25 with a Yanmar YSM8 single. I purchased it last October, knowing little about sailing except that I wanted to learn how.I named her Resa..Italian for surrender, and I have but she’s been challenging me lately.I’ve been working on the phone and e-mail with Joe Demers from Sound Marine Diesel; LLC SoundMarineDiesel.com (860) 666-2184 AWESOME guy! The problem is that he’s in Connecticut and I’m in Monterey, CA.Jeez, I even weighed the cost of flying you out here Joe! I’ve replaced filters, bled the fuel system many times and tried other things. It seems like it should go unless..rings, valves or worse.Is there anyone on this list that lives in the Monterey area that is familiar with the engine could help me at least ‘look’ at it or help diagnose?I’ve been told by two ‘mechanics’, without a lot of them debugging except charging me to bleed the fuel lines, that I simply should repower, because it’s old.(one of them told me I need a new glow plug. All diesels have ‘em, he argued, after I said..this single does not. He said..yes it does)“Well, it’s got No compression”“how do you know?” I asked.“you can tell by the sound”, he replied.I followed with” But when I open the compression release and close it, that’s affecting compression. Sounds the same as it did last month when it quit. Should or can we measure it?” Fine, I’ll consider a repower if it’s proven to me that I need that. But it seems that the cost of that will equal/exceed the initial purchase cost and certainly not be a return. ()I know, that should not be a factor, but I can’t see putting $5,000 into a $4500 boat. I'm not expecting a $-$ return, but I don’t want to do what isn’t necessary Helen, your guy, Kevin won’t come down until I “pay the yard to polish the fuel, remove and clean the fuel tank”I bypassed the fuel supply with a remote supply.I’m paying so-called mechanics to give me little feedback, except “we can re-power for you” Joe, I know you read this list. This is not about your INCREDIBLE support.I need someone local that has experience, before I “add to cart” a fresh engine.: ) Thanks..tom.. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 8:03 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat Hi, all, I typed up this response to the thread on selling a 2-27, with all the comments about selling at a loss and poor market for used boats. I posted it but then it bounced back with an error message so I'll try again. We all need to take a deep breath and realize that if we're boat owners to make a profit, we're in the wrong line of work. First of all, the problem isn't so much that sailing is dying, but that the boats aren't. Fiberglass sailboats are pretty durable, despite the known vulnerabilities (core rot, blisters, stainless corrosion, old engines). There are lots of choices out there, more very year. Way back in 1968, when we acquired my other boat, there were very few choices locally. Fiberglass was still relatively new and there wasn't a huge inventory of used boats. Now there is. So why do we own these money sinks? Easy, it's to go sailing. Sailing is like drinking coffee or beer--it's an acquired taste. But once you've acquired the taste, it's like my morning cup--I need it. Sailing is an opportunity to develop and use skills. The learning can go on and on. It's a challenge, an opportunity to face and surmount dangers. Water is not our natural element, and we have an imperfect ability to foresee weather or what's under the water. Usually the risks are small ones, like getting off the mooring cleanly, getting the sails up and avoiding collisions with other boats. Sometimes the challenges raise the heart rate a lot more. Sometimes we get wet and cold. Then there are the warm sunny days with the wind just right, and a good set of friends aboard. And always there the simple challenge of making the boat operate efficiently in whatever conditions we face. When we go sailing, we join a very old human activity. Our species has traveled under wind power on the water for generations. We enlist in a tradition when we become sailors. It's a tradition of self-reliance, applied skills, adaptability, and a bit of courage. Those are things we generally admire. For me, it's important that my boats look like somebody gives a damn. We should give a damn about a craft that's going to take us into the hostile environment that the water is. When I was just starting sailing a local guy had a Mercer 44, a stunningly lovely boat from Bill Tripp, with a dark blue hull. He was not inclined toward maintenance so in short order the boat looked shabby. I figured that anybody who could let such a gorgeous boat look crummy must have some significant moral deficiency. My annual ritual of maintenance has started on the other boat, a 1961 Bill Tripp design that isn't as breathtaking as that Mercer 44, but still catches the eye. She's got spruce spars and lots of mahogany--toe rails, coamings, hatches--and it's all maintained in a way that says "somebody cares." At 55 years old, it takes a lot of work, but once she's launched the compliments begin. "Hey, pretty boat!" My little Cal 20 attracts compliments, too. She's polished up each year, and the mahogany rudder and tiller are varnished. I've started on that already. She's a happy boat that gets sailed a lot. None of that work would be reimbursed adequately if I were to sell either one. I have no illusions about that. But both boats reimburse me each summer in the joy of making the boat go. One of the great privileges of living in the USA in the 21st century is being able to afford simple luxuries like our boats. As a young person I found much to be unhappy about. As an old person I have come to appreciate my extraordinary fortune to have been born in this age and location and to have encountered people who helped me become a sailor (among other good things). In short, I have become my father and I wish he were around now so I could say "Hey, Dad, you were right. Let's go sailing." Chris Campbell > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Couldn't find the UK article on Swell, Liz Clark's Cal 40 + cat but...here's abetter one! http://patagonia.someoddpilot.com/2015/02/amelia-the-tropicat-a-swell-companion/ On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 1:30 PM, "Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I was just thinking if a warn cam could be the issue, but, that would prevent it from opening the valve and allowing the air-fuel mixture to intake the cylinder. Don't some diesels inject the fuel directly into the cylinder? You can see I don't know much. My GMC V-8 has a two stage injector in place of a carb on the inlet to the cylinders. Gee. If those old Merlins has something like that, they wouldn't have stalled out when the Spitfire pilots tried to pull negative G's. But as they say, if you change anything in history, then maybe none of us would have been born? Anyone see today's article on our friends aboard their intrepid Cal 40 Swell in today's UK Telegraph? Liz must have recovered from breaking her neck surfing in San Diego. Yeah, read about Liz's new crewmate!! My back is crumbling, but I'm going to be trying to race Shpritz this afternoon. Anyone besides me have crumbing lumbar issues at the ripe old age of 69? Somehow I didn't figure in a crumbing back at this stage of my life, but that's how it goes when make a few bad landings in your life. I comes back and bites you big time. Jerry, Shpritz. -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 4/26/16, Chris ch… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 12:53 PM I'd pull the injector and take it to a diesel mechanic. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android Hello Newman! : ) Thanks all, especially Joe Demers.Here’s what I have done recently.I removed the intake side to look at that piece..is it flowing? The air ‘filter’ is a bit gunked up but it does flow and I can feel the intake on my hand.And to see the valve and watch it actuate to see if it’s actually moving…and so satisfy my mechanical curiosity.A follow up conversation with Joe D suggests almost categorically that it isn’t seating because on the compression stroke, I see a spray coming back into the intake side. Since you asked: Yanmar YSM8. Single cyl, 8 bhp, no –pre-ignitor.Fuel tank - Racor filter – Lift pump – engine filter – injector pump – Injector and a return line.4 bleed points: Racor, engine filter, injector pump, injector.Yes, I did bleed the racor, the engine filter, the injector pump and the injector.It all squirts fuel.In doing so, the bleed port on the engine filter stripped so I replaced that entire assembly. I also bypassed it all and drew from a small quart bottle of fresh diesel straight into the injector pump.I am considering pulling the head and sending it out for a re-work.My day job keeps me off the dock all day and recently, it’s been crazy windy here in Monterey so I have not gone down to see her in the last few days.And I’m moving also so my time is stretched thin.I agree that it *SHOULD* go and I see areas that can be improved/repaired. I’m not giving up on the engine yet, much to the chagrin of the local ‘mechanics that want to re-power.Actually, my next step is to set the engine timing..position the flywheel to TDC and pull the head.Unless ‘you’ think otherwise.Thanks. ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; TomDressler Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat I am of the belief that old engines can be made to run just about forever if well maintained.As a hobby I restore old Caterpillar dozers. I currently own one 1949 and one 1955 D2 model machines. At one time I had four fully functional D2's, but thinned out the herd the past couple of years. They are old four cylinder slow turn diesels with two cylinder gas pony motor starters. These old machines start and run great after all these years. In repairing anything it is divide and conquer. Methodically go through all the systems, making sure things are correct. I am not totally familiar with your engine, so will just speak in general terms or about my Yanmar. We have a Yanmar 3GM30F in our 1986 Cal 33-2. The original engine and it runs fantastic. But I went through some heartache getting it to that point. But mine was all fuel issues. Final problem as a small crack in the fuel separator bowl allowing air to get into the fuel system. The engine would just quit at the worst possible times. In repairing this problem I also replaced all my rubber fuel line to and from the tank (in case it was collapsing internally), put a check valve at the fuel tank and bought a new fuel separator and fuel pump). I can cruise for hours no issues. But definitely I found a small crack in the separator bowl that was letting in air. I just wanted to kind of shotgun the fuel system since it was all original and showing its age. If your engine has not been torn apart, then hopefully all the timing is correct. So then you are dealing with air and fuel. The engine fires from heat of compression, so no spark to worry with. Eliminate things. Install a fuel line from the fuel pump directly into a container of diesel. Rule out the fuel separator and tank. I think you said you bypassed the fuel system. Bleed everything. On my engine there is a bleed on the final fuel filter and a bleed just before the injectors. I usually bleed at each injector as well until fuel is coming out the line leading to the injector. When bleeding have the compression lever flipped so no compression. Be aware not to let water get into your cylinder, so have the salt water inlet closed. Once you have fuel spitting out each injector line and you feel that all the air is out, tighten those lines and flip the compression back on and see if you can get it to pop. Does it pop at all? These old diesels will run just about forever. I had an old Caterpillar D7 (1957 model year) that I bought from a farmer. The machine had sit in a field for about 10 years, never started. He said "It was running when I parked it!". I wanted it to clear some land, then resell. The pony engine had a stuck piston and also ended up having a stuck valve. I freed that stuff up and the darn pony fired up. Then I found two stuck injector pumps on the diesel. The old Cat has a mechanical cam mechanism that works all the injector pumps and two of the pump plungers were stuck up. Once I got those free and cleaned the fuel system, changed the fluids, this old machine sitting in a field for ten years rumbled to life. It was amazing. I talked to an old Caterpillar mechanic once who said that even when the old engine had lost most of its compression and was belching oil, if you could spin it long enough for the cylinders to get hot it would start and run. And having a pony engine you can spin the engine as long as needed to get them to fire. So, to condemn your old Yanmar I would think it would need to have lots wrong with it. Broken rings, bad piston or some major problem, but even then that stuff can be fixed. On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:51 PM, 'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello all,Continuing this mindset..I’m asking the group for some physical as well as moral support.I have a Cal 2-25 with a Yanmar YSM8 single. I purchased it last October, knowing little about sailing except that I wanted to learn how.I named her Resa..Italian for surrender, and I have but she’s been challenging me lately.I’ve been working on the phone and e-mail with Joe Demers from Sound Marine Diesel; LLC SoundMarineDiesel.com (860) 666-2184 AWESOME guy! The problem is that he’s in Connecticut and I’m in Monterey, CA.Jeez, I even weighed the cost of flying you out here Joe! I’ve replaced filters, bled the fuel system many times and tried other things. It seems like it should go unless..rings, valves or worse.Is there anyone on this list that lives in the Monterey area that is familiar with the engine could help me at least ‘look’ at it or help diagnose?I’ve been told by two ‘mechanics’, without a lot of them debugging except charging me to bleed the fuel lines, that I simply should repower, because it’s old.(one of them told me I need a new glow plug. All diesels have ‘em, he argued, after I said..this single does not. He said..yes it does)“Well, it’s got No compression”“how do you know?” I asked.“you can tell by the sound”, he replied.I followed with” But when I open the compression release and close it, that’s affecting compression. Sounds the same as it did last month when it quit. Should or can we measure it?” Fine, I’ll consider a repower if it’s proven to me that I need that. But it seems that the cost of that will equal/exceed the initial purchase cost and certainly not be a return. ()I know, that should not be a factor, but I can’t see putting $5,000 into a $4500 boat. I'm not expecting a $-$ return, but I don’t want to do what isn’t necessary Helen, your guy, Kevin won’t come down until I “pay the yard to polish the fuel, remove and clean the fuel tank”I bypassed the fuel supply with a remote supply.I’m paying so-called mechanics to give me little feedback, except “we can re-power for you” Joe, I know you read this list. This is not about your INCREDIBLE support.I need someone local that has experience, before I “add to cart” a fresh engine.: ) Thanks..tom.. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 8:03 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat Hi, all, I typed up this response to the thread on selling a 2-27, with all the comments about selling at a loss and poor market for used boats. I posted it but then it bounced back with an error message so I'll try again. We all need to take a deep breath and realize that if we're boat owners to make a profit, we're in the wrong line of work. First of all, the problem isn't so much that sailing is dying, but that the boats aren't. Fiberglass sailboats are pretty durable, despite the known vulnerabilities (core rot, blisters, stainless corrosion, old engines). There are lots of choices out there, more very year. Way back in 1968, when we acquired my other boat, there were very few choices locally. Fiberglass was still relatively new and there wasn't a huge inventory of used boats. Now there is. So why do we own these money sinks? Easy, it's to go sailing. Sailing is like drinking coffee or beer--it's an acquired taste. But once you've acquired the taste, it's like my morning cup--I need it. Sailing is an opportunity to develop and use skills. The learning can go on and on. It's a challenge, an opportunity to face and surmount dangers. Water is not our natural element, and we have an imperfect ability to foresee weather or what's under the water. Usually the risks are small ones, like getting off the mooring cleanly, getting the sails up and avoiding collisions with other boats. Sometimes the challenges raise the heart rate a lot more. Sometimes we get wet and cold. Then there are the warm sunny days with the wind just right, and a good set of friends aboard. And always there the simple challenge of making the boat operate efficiently in whatever conditions we face. When we go sailing, we join a very old human activity. Our species has traveled under wind power on the water for generations. We enlist in a tradition when we become sailors. It's a tradition of self-reliance, applied skills, adaptability, and a bit of courage. Those are things we generally admire. For me, it's important that my boats look like somebody gives a damn. We should give a damn about a craft that's going to take us into the hostile environment that the water is. When I was just starting sailing a local guy had a Mercer 44, a stunningly lovely boat from Bill Tripp, with a dark blue hull. He was not inclined toward maintenance so in short order the boat looked shabby. I figured that anybody who could let such a gorgeous boat look crummy must have some significant moral deficiency. My annual ritual of maintenance has started on the other boat, a 1961 Bill Tripp design that isn't as breathtaking as that Mercer 44, but still catches the eye. She's got spruce spars and lots of mahogany--toe rails, coamings, hatches--and it's all maintained in a way that says "somebody cares." At 55 years old, it takes a lot of work, but once she's launched the compliments begin. "Hey, pretty boat!" My little Cal 20 attracts compliments, too. She's polished up each year, and the mahogany rudder and tiller are varnished. I've started on that already. She's a happy boat that gets sailed a lot. None of that work would be reimbursed adequately if I were to sell either one. I have no illusions about that. But both boats reimburse me each summer in the joy of making the boat go. One of the great privileges of living in the USA in the 21st century is being able to afford simple luxuries like our boats. As a young person I found much to be unhappy about. As an old person I have come to appreciate my extraordinary fortune to have been born in this age and location and to have encountered people who helped me become a sailor (among other good things). In short, I have become my father and I wish he were around now so I could say "Hey, Dad, you were right. Let's go sailing." Chris Campbell > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

Jerry,I, like you, have the last 4 lumbar disks in various states of damage. The othro surgeons say they can fix that, but I think I will avoid that until I can no longer function or deal with pain. My physical therapists gave me an exercise program that works to keep me pain free. I just have to avoid things that stress my spine. Sailing isn't one of them. David Dobbs CAL29 411 On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 6:51 PM, "Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Couldn't find the UK article on Swell, Liz Clark's Cal 40 + cat but...here's abetter one! http://patagonia.someoddpilot.com/2015/02/amelia-the-tropicat-a-swell-companion/ On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 1:30 PM, "Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I was just thinking if a warn cam could be the issue, but, that would prevent it from opening the valve and allowing the air-fuel mixture to intake the cylinder. Don't some diesels inject the fuel directly into the cylinder? You can see I don't know much. My GMC V-8 has a two stage injector in place of a carb on the inlet to the cylinders. Gee. If those old Merlins has something like that, they wouldn't have stalled out when the Spitfire pilots tried to pull negative G's. But as they say, if you change anything in history, then maybe none of us would have been born? Anyone see today's article on our friends aboard their intrepid Cal 40 Swell in today's UK Telegraph? Liz must have recovered from breaking her neck surfing in San Diego. Yeah, read about Liz's new crewmate!! My back is crumbling, but I'm going to be trying to race Shpritz this afternoon. Anyone besides me have crumbing lumbar issues at the ripe old age of 69? Somehow I didn't figure in a crumbing back at this stage of my life, but that's how it goes when make a few bad landings in your life. I comes back and bites you big time. Jerry, Shpritz. -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 4/26/16, Chris ch… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2016, 12:53 PM I'd pull the injector and take it to a diesel mechanic. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android Hello Newman! : ) Thanks all, especially Joe Demers.Here’s what I have done recently.I removed the intake side to look at that piece..is it flowing? The air ‘filter’ is a bit gunked up but it does flow and I can feel the intake on my hand.And to see the valve and watch it actuate to see if it’s actually moving…and so satisfy my mechanical curiosity.A follow up conversation with Joe D suggests almost categorically that it isn’t seating because on the compression stroke, I see a spray coming back into the intake side. Since you asked: Yanmar YSM8. Single cyl, 8 bhp, no –pre-ignitor.Fuel tank - Racor filter – Lift pump – engine filter – injector pump – Injector and a return line.4 bleed points: Racor, engine filter, injector pump, injector.Yes, I did bleed the racor, the engine filter, the injector pump and the injector.It all squirts fuel.In doing so, the bleed port on the engine filter stripped so I replaced that entire assembly. I also bypassed it all and drew from a small quart bottle of fresh diesel straight into the injector pump.I am considering pulling the head and sending it out for a re-work.My day job keeps me off the dock all day and recently, it’s been crazy windy here in Monterey so I have not gone down to see her in the last few days.And I’m moving also so my time is stretched thin.I agree that it *SHOULD* go and I see areas that can be improved/repaired. I’m not giving up on the engine yet, much to the chagrin of the local ‘mechanics that want to re-power.Actually, my next step is to set the engine timing..position the flywheel to TDC and pull the head.Unless ‘you’ think otherwise.Thanks. ..tom From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 8:37 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; TomDressler Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat I am of the belief that old engines can be made to run just about forever if well maintained.As a hobby I restore old Caterpillar dozers. I currently own one 1949 and one 1955 D2 model machines. At one time I had four fully functional D2's, but thinned out the herd the past couple of years. They are old four cylinder slow turn diesels with two cylinder gas pony motor starters. These old machines start and run great after all these years. In repairing anything it is divide and conquer. Methodically go through all the systems, making sure things are correct. I am not totally familiar with your engine, so will just speak in general terms or about my Yanmar. We have a Yanmar 3GM30F in our 1986 Cal 33-2. The original engine and it runs fantastic. But I went through some heartache getting it to that point. But mine was all fuel issues. Final problem as a small crack in the fuel separator bowl allowing air to get into the fuel system. The engine would just quit at the worst possible times. In repairing this problem I also replaced all my rubber fuel line to and from the tank (in case it was collapsing internally), put a check valve at the fuel tank and bought a new fuel separator and fuel pump). I can cruise for hours no issues. But definitely I found a small crack in the separator bowl that was letting in air. I just wanted to kind of shotgun the fuel system since it was all original and showing its age. If your engine has not been torn apart, then hopefully all the timing is correct. So then you are dealing with air and fuel. The engine fires from heat of compression, so no spark to worry with. Eliminate things. Install a fuel line from the fuel pump directly into a container of diesel. Rule out the fuel separator and tank. I think you said you bypassed the fuel system. Bleed everything. On my engine there is a bleed on the final fuel filter and a bleed just before the injectors. I usually bleed at each injector as well until fuel is coming out the line leading to the injector. When bleeding have the compression lever flipped so no compression. Be aware not to let water get into your cylinder, so have the salt water inlet closed. Once you have fuel spitting out each injector line and you feel that all the air is out, tighten those lines and flip the compression back on and see if you can get it to pop. Does it pop at all? These old diesels will run just about forever. I had an old Caterpillar D7 (1957 model year) that I bought from a farmer. The machine had sit in a field for about 10 years, never started. He said "It was running when I parked it!". I wanted it to clear some land, then resell. The pony engine had a stuck piston and also ended up having a stuck valve. I freed that stuff up and the darn pony fired up. Then I found two stuck injector pumps on the diesel. The old Cat has a mechanical cam mechanism that works all the injector pumps and two of the pump plungers were stuck up. Once I got those free and cleaned the fuel system, changed the fluids, this old machine sitting in a field for ten years rumbled to life. It was amazing. I talked to an old Caterpillar mechanic once who said that even when the old engine had lost most of its compression and was belching oil, if you could spin it long enough for the cylinders to get hot it would start and run. And having a pony engine you can spin the engine as long as needed to get them to fire. So, to condemn your old Yanmar I would think it would need to have lots wrong with it. Broken rings, bad piston or some major problem, but even then that stuff can be fixed. On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:51 PM, 'TomDressler' tb… [at] verizon.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello all,Continuing this mindset..I’m asking the group for some physical as well as moral support.I have a Cal 2-25 with a Yanmar YSM8 single. I purchased it last October, knowing little about sailing except that I wanted to learn how.I named her Resa..Italian for surrender, and I have but she’s been challenging me lately.I’ve been working on the phone and e-mail with Joe Demers from Sound Marine Diesel; LLC SoundMarineDiesel.com (860) 666-2184 AWESOME guy! The problem is that he’s in Connecticut and I’m in Monterey, CA.Jeez, I even weighed the cost of flying you out here Joe! I’ve replaced filters, bled the fuel system many times and tried other things. It seems like it should go unless..rings, valves or worse.Is there anyone on this list that lives in the Monterey area that is familiar with the engine could help me at least ‘look’ at it or help diagnose?I’ve been told by two ‘mechanics’, without a lot of them debugging except charging me to bleed the fuel lines, that I simply should repower, because it’s old.(one of them told me I need a new glow plug. All diesels have ‘em, he argued, after I said..this single does not. He said..yes it does)“Well, it’s got No compression”“how do you know?” I asked.“you can tell by the sound”, he replied.I followed with” But when I open the compression release and close it, that’s affecting compression. Sounds the same as it did last month when it quit. Should or can we measure it?” Fine, I’ll consider a repower if it’s proven to me that I need that. But it seems that the cost of that will equal/exceed the initial purchase cost and certainly not be a return. ()I know, that should not be a factor, but I can’t see putting $5,000 into a $4500 boat. I'm not expecting a $-$ return, but I don’t want to do what isn’t necessary Helen, your guy, Kevin won’t come down until I “pay the yard to polish the fuel, remove and clean the fuel tank”I bypassed the fuel supply with a remote supply.I’m paying so-called mechanics to give me little feedback, except “we can re-power for you” Joe, I know you read this list. This is not about your INCREDIBLE support.I need someone local that has experience, before I “add to cart” a fresh engine.: ) Thanks..tom.. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 8:03 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Owning and selling a boat Hi, all, I typed up this response to the thread on selling a 2-27, with all the comments about selling at a loss and poor market for used boats. I posted it but then it bounced back with an error message so I'll try again. We all need to take a deep breath and realize that if we're boat owners to make a profit, we're in the wrong line of work. First of all, the problem isn't so much that sailing is dying, but that the boats aren't. Fiberglass sailboats are pretty durable, despite the known vulnerabilities (core rot, blisters, stainless corrosion, old engines). There are lots of choices out there, more very year. Way back in 1968, when we acquired my other boat, there were very few choices locally. Fiberglass was still relatively new and there wasn't a huge inventory of used boats. Now there is. So why do we own these money sinks? Easy, it's to go sailing. Sailing is like drinking coffee or beer--it's an acquired taste. But once you've acquired the taste, it's like my morning cup--I need it. Sailing is an opportunity to develop and use skills. The learning can go on and on. It's a challenge, an opportunity to face and surmount dangers. Water is not our natural element, and we have an imperfect ability to foresee weather or what's under the water. Usually the risks are small ones, like getting off the mooring cleanly, getting the sails up and avoiding collisions with other boats. Sometimes the challenges raise the heart rate a lot more. Sometimes we get wet and cold. Then there are the warm sunny days with the wind just right, and a good set of friends aboard. And always there the simple challenge of making the boat operate efficiently in whatever conditions we face. When we go sailing, we join a very old human activity. Our species has traveled under wind power on the water for generations. We enlist in a tradition when we become sailors. It's a tradition of self-reliance, applied skills, adaptability, and a bit of courage. Those are things we generally admire. For me, it's important that my boats look like somebody gives a damn. We should give a damn about a craft that's going to take us into the hostile environment that the water is. When I was just starting sailing a local guy had a Mercer 44, a stunningly lovely boat from Bill Tripp, with a dark blue hull. He was not inclined toward maintenance so in short order the boat looked shabby. I figured that anybody who could let such a gorgeous boat look crummy must have some significant moral deficiency. My annual ritual of maintenance has started on the other boat, a 1961 Bill Tripp design that isn't as breathtaking as that Mercer 44, but still catches the eye. She's got spruce spars and lots of mahogany--toe rails, coamings, hatches--and it's all maintained in a way that says "somebody cares." At 55 years old, it takes a lot of work, but once she's launched the compliments begin. "Hey, pretty boat!" My little Cal 20 attracts compliments, too. She's polished up each year, and the mahogany rudder and tiller are varnished. I've started on that already. She's a happy boat that gets sailed a lot. None of that work would be reimbursed adequately if I were to sell either one. I have no illusions about that. But both boats reimburse me each summer in the joy of making the boat go. One of the great privileges of living in the USA in the 21st century is being able to afford simple luxuries like our boats. As a young person I found much to be unhappy about. As an old person I have come to appreciate my extraordinary fortune to have been born in this age and location and to have encountered people who helped me become a sailor (among other good things). In short, I have become my father and I wish he were around now so I could say "Hey, Dad, you were right. Let's go sailing." Chris Campbell > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com