Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex

-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, Carl Hansen fa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "mu… [at] yahoo.com" <mu… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 7:56 AM I have to concur with Cal. We had two fiberglas laminate experts on the list for many years. They both decried ignoring the flex problem. Apparently there IS at least one know case of catastrophic failure of a Cal keel. Scary, huh? Both these gentleman passed away, one from prostate cancer, the other from a tragic fall from a mast (??). I owned a very early Cal 25 that was formerly a Navy sail training boat from San Diego. It's keel would do the "woop-de-do" so much while cresting an ocean wave that it felt disconcerting to me. Finding myself a two boat owner, and not having dramatically more success racing the boat, and less fun sailing it than my low freeboard Cal 24, I sold her the same way I bought her...from EBay. I think I made a few bucks on the deal, but not enough to cover the expenses. I wish I could remember their names at this instant, but I'm certain there are other Cal list old-timers that do. Somewhere there is a file with these discussions, which would have been from the early 2000 time frame, or perhaps very late 20th century. Best, Jerry Sobel of the Good Ship Shpritz, Cal 24-Mk1 #71, last of the home-made kit Cals. In response to your question, "Is this flexing/movement normal?" No, it is not. My Cal 25-2 is rock solid. The lead ballast is encapsulated within the fiberglass skin--there are no keel bolts. Where is it flexing? The turn of the bilge is gradual, so no obvious point for flexing. It is my opinion, for your specific model, (and for your request for reassuring and comforting responses-sorry), that your condition is a disaster waiting to happen. The fiberglass will fracture over time. Imagine the lateral forces applied to your keel while sailing, as compared to your own effort to flex the keel. The bond between the lead and fiberglass has broken, allowing the lead to swing back and forth within the skin. If you look inside the bilge access cover closest to the mast support, you can see the top of the lead ballast covered in a layer of fiberglass. Are there cracks around the edge? If so, any bilge water that accumulates will find its way into the space around the ballast, further exacerbating the issue. I am not a professional. I am a long term owner of a Cal 25-2, who does all of his own maintenance, so take my comments as only one man's opinion. You should have a professional, familiar with your model, examine the condition and offer his own opinion. I love my Cal 25-2 and I hope you can get the appropriate answer to your question--good luck!Since I started writing this post, other Cal owners have responded. I cannot comment on issues other than related to a Cal 25-2. If keel flex is a normal issue for some Cal models, it does not mean it is OK for yours. Just sayin'... From: "mu… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:31 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex Hi Everyone, I know this subject has been covered by other posts on similar model than my boat a CAL 2-25 or Mk II, but i wanted to see if any one has more specific details on the construction and characteristic of the keel of the 2-25.So I hauled the boat out today for bottom painting and noticed a slight less than 1" lateral flex of the keel while applying moderate pressure at the very bottom end, i started looking for cracks but found none (Il recheck tomorrow after I complete the sanding though)Question number oneIs this (flexing/movement) normal?And number twoOne of the boatyard worker suggested I'd locate the keel bolts and tighten them...but in the inspection holes of the bilge no bolts are found unless they are glassed over, so are there any keel bolts? (the cal 27-3 according to posts I read does not...so I could assume the 25-2 doesn't either)So is this movement due to the relative thin skin of the" floor " of the hull and therefore normal? Reassuring and conforting responses are greatly appreciated 😊 MarcoProud owner of Dragon Lady

Jerry, The prostate cancer victim was Roger Jones, who was, I believe, the production manager at Jensen Marine when most of the Cals were built. He was in the process of restoring, with heavy medications, Cal 29 # 1, Swiss Navy. The mast-fall victim was Brian Cleverley, a Kiwi, who completed major hull restorations on many boats. They were giants on the list in their day. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Jul 30, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/30/16, Carl Hansen fa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "mu… [at] yahoo.com" <mu… [at] yahoo.com> > Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 7:56 AM > > I have to concur with Cal. We had two fiberglas laminate experts on the list for many years. They both decried ignoring the flex problem. Apparently there IS at least one know case of catastrophic failure of a Cal keel. Scary, huh? Both these gentleman passed away, one from prostate cancer, the other from a tragic fall from a mast (??). I owned a very early Cal 25 that was formerly a Navy sail training boat from San Diego. It's keel would do the "woop-de-do" so much while cresting an ocean wave that it felt disconcerting to me. Finding myself a two boat owner, and not having dramatically more success racing the boat, and less fun sailing it than my low freeboard Cal 24, I sold her the same way I bought her...from EBay. I think I made a few bucks on the deal, but not enough to cover the expenses. > > I wish I could remember their names at this instant, but I'm certain there are other Cal list old-timers that do. Somewhere there is a file with these discussions, which would have been from the early 2000 time frame, or perhaps very late 20th century. > > Best, > Jerry Sobel of the Good Ship Shpritz, Cal 24-Mk1 #71, last of the home-made kit Cals. > >

As a cal 36 owmer we noticed on a haulout that there were a few tiny lines kn the turn of bilge to keel. The yard owner has a 36 in the family and showed us how to stiffen by laminating and bracing the turn and the keel bulkheads. The original layup process appeared to have been done with large woven roving, and the resin appeared to have mostly dripped down to the keel floor before setting up. Many layers of cloth, matt and carbon fiber we added after sanding and cleaning, covered by peel cloth and sqeegeed , to the turns as high and low as possible and linked to the bullheads which also were reglassed. I believe it made a difference in stiffness. A later haulout showed no flaws. Has anyone ever lost an encapsulated keel off a cal? Helen of "Caliente", SF bay. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Fred Haas ca… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Jerry, The prostate cancer victim was Roger Jones, who was, I believe, the production manager at Jensen Marine when most of the Cals were built. He was in the process of restoring, with heavy medications, Cal 29 # 1, Swiss Navy. The mast-fall victim was Brian Cleverley, a Kiwi, who completed major hull restorations on many boats. They were giants on the list in their day.Fred Haas3-30 NemesisTacoma On Jul 30, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, Carl Hansen fa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "mu… [at] yahoo.com" <mu… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Saturday,! July 30, 2016, 7:56 AM I have to concur with Cal. We had two fiberglas laminate experts on the list for many years. They both decried ignoring the flex problem. Apparently there IS at least one know case of catastrophic failure of a Cal keel. Scary, huh? Both these gentleman passed away, one from prostate cancer, the other from a tragic fall from a mast (??). I owned a very early Cal 25 that was formerly a Navy sail training boat from San Diego. It's keel would do the "woop-de-do" so much while cresting an ocean wave that it felt disconcerting to me. Finding myself a two boat owner, and not having dramatically more success racing the boat, and less fun sailing it than my low freeboard Cal 24, I sold her the same way I bought her...from EBay. I think I made a few bucks on the deal, but not enough to cover the expenses. I wish I could remember their names at this instant, but I'm certain there are other Cal list old-timers that do. Somewhere there is a file with these discussions, which would have been from the early 2000 time frame, or perhaps very late 20th century. Best, Jerry Sobel of the Good Ship Shpritz, Cal 24-Mk1 #71, last of the home-made kit Cals.

Saddest story ever. CLEVERLY, Brian Windfield Brian was born in Sydney, Australia on October 17, 1936 and passed away on November 6, 2011. He had been gravely injured in a fall two days after his 75th birthday. Brian is survived by his loving wife of 32 years, Rose, and by his step-children Cuthbert Tostensen of Plumas Lake CA, Marcy Mateo of Sacramento, Daniel Rey of Klamath Falls OR, and Navy Chief Petty Officer Helen Sowinski of Newport RI. He is also survived by 7 very special grandchildren and by his sister Sandra Kelly of Australia.Brian could make and fix anything. Throughout the years he had been a factory manager, an appliance repairman, a computer programmer and analyst, and a boat refurbisher. In his younger days, he had raced bicycles, motorcycles, cars and sailboats. He had sailed across the Pacific Ocean several times. He and his wife Rose had spent several wonderful vacations on canal boats in England, Wales and Ireland, and on cruises to out-of-the-way spots like the Faroe Islands, the Aleutian Islands, and the Kuril Islands. He spent the past 6 years lovingly rebuilding his sailboat Magrathea. With total dedication and lots of hard work, he finally put Magrathea in the water in October 2011 and was applying finishing touches to it when he fell while working at the top of the mast. At his request, no services will be held - See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sacbee/obituary.aspx?n=brian-windfield-clev erly&pid=154576381#sthash.fjLVrvzR.dpuf From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 12:13 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex Jerry, The prostate cancer victim was Roger Jones, who was, I believe, the production manager at Jensen Marine when most of the Cals were built. He was in the process of restoring, with heavy medications, Cal 29 # 1, Swiss Navy. The mast-fall victim was Brian Cleverley, a Kiwi, who completed major hull restorations on many boats. They were giants on the list in their day. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Jul 30, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:so… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, Carl Hansen <mailto:fa… [at] yahoo.com> fa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] < <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: " <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" < <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, " <mailto:mu… [at] yahoo.com> mu… [at] yahoo.com" < <mailto:mu… [at] yahoo.com> mu… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 7:56 AM I have to concur with Cal. We had two fiberglas laminate experts on the list for many years. They both decried ignoring the flex problem. Apparently there IS at least one know case of catastrophic failure of a Cal keel. Scary, huh? Both these gentleman passed away, one from prostate cancer, the other from a tragic fall from a mast (??). I owned a very early Cal 25 that was formerly a Navy sail training boat from San Diego. It's keel would do the "woop-de-do" so much while cresting an ocean wave that it felt disconcerting to me. Finding myself a two boat owner, and not having dramatically more success racing the boat, and less fun sailing it than my low freeboard Cal 24, I sold her the same way I bought her...from EBay. I think I made a few bucks on the deal, but not enough to cover the expenses. I wish I could remember their names at this instant, but I'm certain there are other Cal list old-timers that do. Somewhere there is a file with these discussions, which would have been from the early 2000 time frame, or perhaps very late 20th century. Best, Jerry Sobel of the Good Ship Shpritz, Cal 24-Mk1 #71, last of the home-made kit Cals.

First and foremost, Thank you so much to all of you that took the time in responding and helping me with the issue of this wiggly keel, your shared info has been of tremendous help! I went over today starting the sanding of the bottom and focusing on the keel and kell to hull area, I also inspected the bilge and the hull from the inside looking for possible signs of fracture or cracks but nothing at all, no cracks or signs of cracks. The one thing that i noticed though was that when the keel is moved (I had a helper below while i was in the cabin) the movement was felt on the floor particularly if standing on either side of the bilge or center of the boat, i could visually see some movement on the walls of the bilge but again no visible fractures. Carl you have points that make perfect sense if the led ballast is delaminated from the inside walls of the keel it would allow that shear movement laterally, and will lead to catastofic results eventually, i do not see cracks in the bilge though and the floor of the cabin poping sligtly as the keel swings left and right seems to suggest again a thin layer of the hull that other CAL model seem to have, but then again if yours (same model as mine) does not have any side movement something is not right.... One more thing i did is quantify the swing which i did by placing a block next to the keel about 1/2 " with moderate force. So far I am trending towards the reinforcement of the hull like Hellen did, or assume that it is a design flaw and do nothing, but than again the 2-25 althogh a Lapworh design was built by Bangor Punta Marine and not by Jensen Marine, so not sure if they both built keels the same way. I will probably get a surveyor or inspector take a look at it and hopefully he or she'll be as knowledgeable of the CAL as you guys in in this group are. Some picture i took today are uploades under Dragon Lady album. Good night ...I am tired

Tim and Calmates, Yes, it was very disheartening to hear of Brian's accident. He was a wonderful and precious asset to our list. As I recall he was a representative for some type of jib furling system, or hanking system, or both, with some unique attributes. It's probably a good idea to have some kind of back up system when up on the mast, so that if one thing fails you don't break your body or die. I think I'd rather trust my hang glider! We had a woman rigger by the name of Rose here in Marina del Rey who similarly fell from the mast top, Eric was not far away on his boat and heard the terrible THUMP. Somehow, she'd landed in such away that she didn't die. In fact, she eventually recovered, and went back to rigging sailboats. Amazing. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, ti… [at] danishmarineco.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 2:15 PM Saddest story ever… CLEVERLY, Brian Windfield Brian was born in Sydney, Australia on October 17, 1936 and passed away on November 6, 2011. He had been gravely injured in a fall two days after his 75th birthday. Brian is survived by his loving wife of 32 years, Rose, and by his step-children Cuthbert Tostensen of Plumas Lake CA, Marcy Mateo of Sacramento, Daniel Rey of Klamath Falls OR, and Navy Chief Petty Officer Helen Sowinski of Newport RI. He is also survived by 7 very special grandchildren and by his sister Sandra Kelly of Australia.Brian could make and fix anything. Throughout the years he had been a factory manager, an appliance repairman, a computer programmer and analyst, and a boat refurbisher. In his younger days, he had raced bicycles, motorcycles, cars and sailboats. He had sailed across the Pacific Ocean several times. He and his wife Rose had spent several wonderful vacations on canal boats in England, Wales and Ireland, and on cruises to out-of-the-way spots like the Faroe Islands, the Aleutian Islands, and the Kuril Islands. He spent the past 6 years lovingly rebuilding his sailboat Magrathea. With total dedication and lots of hard work, he finally put Magrathea in the water in October 2011 and was applying finishing touches to it when he fell while working at the top of the mast. At his request, no services will be held - See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sacbee/obituary.aspx?n=brian-windfield-cleverly&pid=154576381#sthash.fjLVrvzR.dpuf From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 12:13 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex Jerry,The prostate cancer victim was Roger Jones, who was, I believe, the production manager at Jensen Marine when most of the Cals were built. He was in the process of restoring, with heavy medications, Cal 29 # 1, Swiss Navy. The mast-fall victim was Brian Cleverley, a Kiwi, who completed major hull restorations on many boats. They were giants on the list in their day.Fred Haas3-30 NemesisTacomaOn Jul 30, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, Carl Hansen fa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "mu… [at] yahoo.com" <mu… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 7:56 AM I have to concur with Cal. We had two fiberglas laminate experts on the list for many years. They both decried ignoring the flex problem. Apparently there IS at least one know case of catastrophic failure of a Cal keel. Scary, huh? Both these gentleman passed away, one from prostate cancer, the other from a tragic fall from a mast (??). I owned a very early Cal 25 that was formerly a Navy sail training boat from San Diego. It's keel would do the "woop-de-do" so much while cresting an ocean wave that it felt disconcerting to me. Finding myself a two boat owner, and not having dramatically more success racing the boat, and less fun sailing it than my low freeboard Cal 24, I sold her the same way I bought her...from EBay. I think I made a few bucks on the deal, but not enough to cover the expenses. I wish I could remember their names at this instant, but I'm certain there are other Cal list old-timers that do. Somewhere there is a file with these discussions, which would have been from the early 2000 time frame, or perhaps very late 20th century. Best, Jerry Sobel of the Good Ship Shpritz, Cal 24-Mk1 #71, last of the home-made kit Cals.

....anyone who owns a cal 25, 27, or 29 and thinks their keel isn't moving hasn't looked hard enough. Your description of the movement in the floor is 100% correct. I have not found a 25, 27 or 29 that I could not get the keel to rock by just standing over the keel when the boat is in the water and shifting my weight side to side. I doubt a surveyor will be able to help you. If you really wanted an answer, you need a composites expert w structural engineering background as it relates to marine structures. > On Jul 30, 2016, at 10:45 PM, mu… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > First and foremost, > > Thank you so much to all of you that took the time in responding and helping me with the issue of this wiggly keel, your shared info has been of tremendous help! > I went over today starting the sanding of the bottom and focusing on the keel and kell to hull area, I also inspected the bilge and the hull from the inside looking for possible signs of fracture or cracks but nothing at all, no cracks or signs of cracks. > The one thing that i noticed though was that when the keel is moved (I had a helper below while i was in the cabin) the movement was felt on the floor particularly if standing on either side of the bilge or center of the boat, i could visually see some movement on the walls of the bilge but again no visible fractures. > > Carl you have points that make perfect sense if the led ballast is delaminated from the inside walls of the keel it would allow that shear movement laterally, and will lead to catastofic results eventually, i do not see cracks in the bilge though and the floor of the cabin poping sligtly as the keel swings left and right seems to suggest again a thin layer of the hull that other CAL model seem to have, but then again if yours (same model as mine) does not have any side movement something is not right.... > One more thing i did is quantify the swing which i did by placing a block next to the keel about 1/2 " with moderate force. > So far I am trending towards the reinforcement of the hull like Hellen did, or assume that it is a design flaw and do nothing, but than again the 2-25 althogh a Lapworh design was built by Bangor Punta Marine and not by Jensen Marine, so not sure if they both built keels the same way. > I will probably get a surveyor or inspector take a look at it and hopefully he or she'll be as knowledgeable of the CAL as you guys in in this group are. > Some picture i took today are uploades under Dragon Lady album. > Good night ...I am tired >

Not to drag this out any longer than necessary, but a Cal 25-2 is a completely different animal than a Cal 25. The similarities end at their respective length. From: "Jim Englert sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; mu… [at] yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex ....anyone who owns a cal 25, 27, or 29 and thinks their keel isn't moving hasn't looked hard enough. Your description of the movement in the floor is 100% correct. I have not found a 25, 27 or 29 that I could not get the keel to rock by just standing over the keel when the boat is in the water and shifting my weight side to side. I doubt a surveyor will be able to help you. If you really wanted an answer, you need a composites expert w structural engineering background as it relates to marine structures. On Jul 30, 2016, at 10:45 PM, mu… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: First and foremost,Thank you so much to all of you that took the time in responding and helping me with the issue of this wiggly keel, your shared info has been of tremendous help!I went over today starting the sanding of the bottom and focusing on the keel and kell to hull area, I also inspected the bilge and the hull from the inside looking for possible signs of fracture or cracks but nothing at all, no cracks or signs of cracks.The one thing that i noticed though was that when the keel is moved (I had a helper below while i was in the cabin) the movement was felt on the floor particularly if standing on either side of the bilge or center of the boat, i could visually see some movement on the walls of the bilge but again no visible fractures. Carl you have points that make perfect sense if the led ballast is delaminated from the inside walls of the keel it would allow that shear movement laterally, and will lead to catastofic results eventually, i do not see cracks in the bilge though and the floor of the cabin poping sligtly as the keel swings left and right seems to suggest again a thin layer of the hull that other CAL model seem to have, but then again if yours (same model as mine) does not have any side movement something is not right....One more thing i did is quantify the swing which i did by placing a block next to the keel about 1/2 " with moderate force. So far I am trending towards the reinforcement of the hull like Hellen did, or assume that it is a design flaw and do nothing, but than again the 2-25 althogh a Lapworh design was built by Bangor Punta Marine and not by Jensen Marine, so not sure if they both built keels the same way.I will probably get a surveyor or inspector take a look at it and hopefully he or she'll be as knowledgeable of the CAL as you guys in in this group are.Some picture i took today are uploades under Dragon Lady album.Good night ...I am tired

I too had an incident some years ago when I was at the masthead of a 35' Hinckley Pilot. The line on the old style plank bosuns chair failed. I had a sail tie around my upper chest which passed thru the main halyard thimble. I fetched up hard on the sail tie and it held saving my life. From: "Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; ti… [at] danishmarineco.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 9:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex Tim and Calmates, Yes, it was very disheartening to hear of Brian's accident. He was a wonderful and precious asset to our list. As I recall he was a representative for some type of jib furling system, or hanking system, or both, with some unique attributes. It's probably a good idea to have some kind of back up system when up on the mast, so that if one thing fails you don't break your body or die. I think I'd rather trust my hang glider! We had a woman rigger by the name of Rose here in Marina del Rey who similarly fell from the mast top, Eric was not far away on his boat and heard the terrible THUMP. Somehow, she'd landed in such away that she didn't die. In fact, she eventually recovered, and went back to rigging sailboats. Amazing. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, ti… [at] danishmarineco.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 2:15 PM Saddest story ever… CLEVERLY, Brian Windfield Brian was born in Sydney, Australia on October 17, 1936 and passed away on November 6, 2011. He had been gravely injured in a fall two days after his 75th birthday. Brian is survived by his loving wife of 32 years, Rose, and by his step-children Cuthbert Tostensen of Plumas Lake CA, Marcy Mateo of Sacramento, Daniel Rey of Klamath Falls OR, and Navy Chief Petty Officer Helen Sowinski of Newport RI. He is also survived by 7 very special grandchildren and by his sister Sandra Kelly of Australia.Brian could make and fix anything. Throughout the years he had been a factory manager, an appliance repairman, a computer programmer and analyst, and a boat refurbisher. In his younger days, he had raced bicycles, motorcycles, cars and sailboats. He had sailed across the Pacific Ocean several times. He and his wife Rose had spent several wonderful vacations on canal boats in England, Wales and Ireland, and on cruises to out-of-the-way spots like the Faroe Islands, the Aleutian Islands, and the Kuril Islands. He spent the past 6 years lovingly rebuilding his sailboat Magrathea. With total dedication and lots of hard work, he finally put Magrathea in the water in October 2011 and was applying finishing touches to it when he fell while working at the top of the mast. At his request, no services will be held - See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sacbee/obituary.aspx?n=brian-windfield-cleverly&pid=154576381#sthash.fjLVrvzR.dpuf From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 12:13 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex Jerry,The prostate cancer victim was Roger Jones, who was, I believe, the production manager at Jensen Marine when most of the Cals were built. He was in the process of restoring, with heavy medications, Cal 29 # 1, Swiss Navy. The mast-fall victim was Brian Cleverley, a Kiwi, who completed major hull restorations on many boats. They were giants on the list in their day.Fred Haas3-30 NemesisTacomaOn Jul 30, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, Carl Hansen fa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "mu… [at] yahoo.com" <mu… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 7:56 AM I have to concur with Cal. We had two fiberglas laminate experts on the list for many years. They both decried ignoring the flex problem. Apparently there IS at least one know case of catastrophic failure of a Cal keel. Scary, huh? Both these gentleman passed away, one from prostate cancer, the other from a tragic fall from a mast (??). I owned a very early Cal 25 that was formerly a Navy sail training boat from San Diego. It's keel would do the "woop-de-do" so much while cresting an ocean wave that it felt disconcerting to me. Finding myself a two boat owner, and not having dramatically more success racing the boat, and less fun sailing it than my low freeboard Cal 24, I sold her the same way I bought her...from EBay. I think I made a few bucks on the deal, but not enough to cover the expenses. I wish I could remember their names at this instant, but I'm certain there are other Cal list old-timers that do. Somewhere there is a file with these discussions, which would have been from the early 2000 time frame, or perhaps very late 20th century. Best, Jerry Sobel of the Good Ship Shpritz, Cal 24-Mk1 #71, last of the home-made kit Cals. ------------------------------------ Posted by: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links

I'm wondering if it's possible that more Cal owners don't know about the keel flexing because it isn't readily apparent. A surveyor won't find it if the survey is performed while the boat is in a cradle or on jack stands because the weight is on the keel, keeping it rigid. I only noticed it during haul-out while it was in the sling and one of the workman pushed one side of the keel to center it on the cradle. Prior to that time, I'd sailed my Cal 27 Mark III for years, but never was aware of the flex. After I saw it, I had a good surveyor tap the hull and inspect the bilge for cracks after which he pronounced the boat sea worthy...David On Sunday, July 31, 2016 12:38 PM, "mike farrell ve… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I too had an incident some years ago when I was at the masthead of a 35' Hinckley Pilot. The line on the old style plank bosuns chair failed. I had a sail tie around my upper chest which passed thru the main halyard thimble. I fetched up hard on the sail tie and it held saving my life. From: "Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; ti… [at] danishmarineco.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 9:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex Tim and Calmates, Yes, it was very disheartening to hear of Brian's accident. He was a wonderful and precious asset to our list. As I recall he was a representative for some type of jib furling system, or hanking system, or both, with some unique attributes. It's probably a good idea to have some kind of back up system when up on the mast, so that if one thing fails you don't break your body or die. I think I'd rather trust my hang glider! We had a woman rigger by the name of Rose here in Marina del Rey who similarly fell from the mast top, Eric was not far away on his boat and heard the terrible THUMP. Somehow, she'd landed in such away that she didn't die. In fact, she eventually recovered, and went back to rigging sailboats. Amazing. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, ti… [at] danishmarineco.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 2:15 PM Saddest story ever… CLEVERLY, Brian Windfield Brian was born in Sydney, Australia on October 17, 1936 and passed away on November 6, 2011. He had been gravely injured in a fall two days after his 75th birthday. Brian is survived by his loving wife of 32 years, Rose, and by his step-children Cuthbert Tostensen of Plumas Lake CA, Marcy Mateo of Sacramento, Daniel Rey of Klamath Falls OR, and Navy Chief Petty Officer Helen Sowinski of Newport RI. He is also survived by 7 very special grandchildren and by his sister Sandra Kelly of Australia.Brian could make and fix anything. Throughout the years he had been a factory manager, an appliance repairman, a computer programmer and analyst, and a boat refurbisher. In his younger days, he had raced bicycles, motorcycles, cars and sailboats. He had sailed across the Pacific Ocean several times. He and his wife Rose had spent several wonderful vacations on canal boats in England, Wales and Ireland, and on cruises to out-of-the-way spots like the Faroe Islands, the Aleutian Islands, and the Kuril Islands. He spent the past 6 years lovingly rebuilding his sailboat Magrathea. With total dedication and lots of hard work, he finally put Magrathea in the water in October 2011 and was applying finishing touches to it when he fell while working at the top of the mast. At his request, no services will be held - See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sacbee/obituary.aspx?n=brian-windfield-cleverly&pid=154576381#sthash.fjLVrvzR.dpuf From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 12:13 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex Jerry,The prostate cancer victim was Roger Jones, who was, I believe, the production manager at Jensen Marine when most of the Cals were built. He was in the process of restoring, with heavy medications, Cal 29 # 1, Swiss Navy. The mast-fall victim was Brian Cleverley, a Kiwi, who completed major hull restorations on many boats. They were giants on the list in their day.Fred Haas3-30 NemesisTacomaOn Jul 30, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 7/30/16, Carl Hansen fa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "mu… [at] yahoo.com" <mu… [at] yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 7:56 AM I have to concur with Cal. We had two fiberglas laminate experts on the list for many years. They both decried ignoring the flex problem. Apparently there IS at least one know case of catastrophic failure of a Cal keel. Scary, huh? Both these gentleman passed away, one from prostate cancer, the other from a tragic fall from a mast (??). I owned a very early Cal 25 that was formerly a Navy sail training boat from San Diego. It's keel would do the "woop-de-do" so much while cresting an ocean wave that it felt disconcerting to me. Finding myself a two boat owner, and not having dramatically more success racing the boat, and less fun sailing it than my low freeboard Cal 24, I sold her the same way I bought her...from EBay. I think I made a few bucks on the deal, but not enough to cover the expenses. I wish I could remember their names at this instant, but I'm certain there are other Cal list old-timers that do. Somewhere there is a file with these discussions, which would have been from the early 2000 time frame, or perhaps very late 20th century. Best, Jerry Sobel of the Good Ship Shpritz, Cal 24-Mk1 #71, last of the home-made kit Cals. ------------------------------------ Posted by: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links

There are some that don't know, there are some that know and are ok w it and there are some in denial. Lol You are correct, a surveyor would not catch it on the hard on blocks. > On Jul 31, 2016, at 4:42 PM, David Field fi… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > I'm wondering if it's possible that more Cal owners don't know about the keel flexing because it isn't readily apparent. A surveyor won't find it if the survey is performed while the boat is in a cradle or on jack stands because the weight is on the keel, keeping it rigid. I only noticed it during haul-out while it was in the sling and one of the workman pushed one side of the keel to center it on the cradle. Prior to that time, I'd sailed my Cal 27 Mark III for years, but never was aware of the flex. After I saw it, I had a good surveyor tap the hull and inspect the bilge for cracks after which he pronounced the boat sea worthy... > David > > > On Sunday, July 31, 2016 12:38 PM, "mike farrell ve… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > I too had an incident some years ago when I was at the masthead of a 35' Hinckley Pilot. The line on the old style plank bosuns chair failed. I had a sail tie around my upper chest which passed thru the main halyard thimble. I fetched up hard on the sail tie and it held saving my life. > > From: "Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; ti… [at] danishmarineco.com > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 9:35 PM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex > > Tim and Calmates, > Yes, it was very disheartening to hear of Brian's accident. He was a wonderful and precious asset to our list. As I recall he was a representative for some type of jib furling system, or hanking system, or both, with some unique attributes. It's probably a good idea to have some kind of back up system when up on the mast, so that if one thing fails you don't break your body or die. I think I'd rather trust my hang glider! > > We had a woman rigger by the name of Rose here in Marina del Rey who similarly fell from the mast top, Eric was not far away on his boat and heard the terrible THUMP. Somehow, she'd landed in such away that she didn't die. In fact, she eventually recovered, and went back to rigging sailboats. Amazing. > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/30/16, ti… [at] danishmarineco.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel lateral flex > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 2:15 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saddest story ever… CLEVERLY, Brian Windfield > Brian was born in Sydney, Australia on October 17, 1936 and > passed away on November 6, 2011. He had been gravely injured > in a fall two days after his 75th birthday. Brian is > survived by his loving wife of 32 years, Rose, and by his > step-children Cuthbert Tostensen of Plumas Lake CA, Marcy > Mateo of Sacramento, Daniel Rey of Klamath Falls OR, and > Navy Chief Petty Officer Helen Sowinski of Newport RI. He is > also survived by 7 very special grandchildren and by his > sister Sandra Kelly of Australia.Brian could make and fix > anything. Throughout the years he had been a factory > manager, an appliance repairman, a computer programmer and > analyst, and a boat refurbisher. In his younger days, he had > raced bicycles, motorcycles, cars and sailboats. He had > sailed across the Pacific Ocean several times. He and his > wife Rose had spent several wonderful vacations on canal > boats in England, Wales and Ireland, and on cruises to > out-of-the-way spots like the Faroe Islands, the Aleutian > Islands, and the Kuril Islands. He spent the past 6 years > lovingly rebuilding his sailboat Magrathea. With total > dedication and lots of hard work, he finally put Magrathea > in the water in October 2011 and was applying finishing > touches to it when he fell while working at the top of the > mast. At his request, no services will be held - See more > at: > http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sacbee/obituary.aspx?n=brian-windfield-cleverly&pid=154576381#sthash.fjLVrvzR.dpuf > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 12:13 > PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; > Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL 2-25 keel > lateral flex Jerry,The prostate cancer victim > was Roger Jones, who was, I believe, the production manager > at Jensen Marine when most of the Cals were built. He was in > the process of restoring, with heavy medications, Cal 29 # > 1, Swiss Navy. The mast-fall victim was Brian Cleverley, a > Kiwi, who completed major hull restorations on many boats. > They were giants on the list in their day.Fred Haas3-30 NemesisTacomaOn Jul 30, 2016, at 11:20 AM, > Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com > [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 7/30/16, Carl Hansen fa… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] > <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] CAL > 2-25 keel lateral flex > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "mu… [at] yahoo.com" <mu… [at] yahoo.com> > Date: Saturday, July 30, 2016, 7:56 AM > > I have to concur with Cal. We > had two fiberglas laminate experts on the list for many > years. They both decried ignoring the flex problem. > Apparently there IS at least one know case of catastrophic > failure of a Cal keel. Scary, huh? Both these gentleman > passed away, one from prostate cancer, the other from a > tragic fall from a mast (??). I owned a very early Cal 25 > that was formerly a Navy sail training boat from San Diego. > It's keel would do the "woop-de-do" so much > while cresting an ocean wave that it felt disconcerting to > me. Finding myself a two boat owner, and not having > dramatically more success racing the boat, and less fun > sailing it than my low freeboard Cal 24, I sold her the same > way I bought her...from EBay. I think I made a few bucks on > the deal, but not enough to cover the expenses. > > I wish I could remember their > names at this instant, but I'm certain there are other > Cal list old-timers that do. Somewhere there is a file with > these discussions, which would have been from the early 2000 > time frame, or perhaps very late 20th century. > > Best, > Jerry > Sobel of the Good Ship Shpritz, Cal 24-Mk1 #71, last of the > home-made kit Cals. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > { > margin:10px > 0;padding:0 10px;} > > hr { > } > > { > color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px > 0;} > > { > margin-bottom:10px;} > > .yiv7068114562ad { > } > > .yiv7068114562ad p { > } > > .yiv7068114562ad a { > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} > > { > } > > > { > margin:10px > 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} > > > .yiv7068114562ad { > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} > > { > } > > { > background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} > > span { > font-weight:700;} > > span:first-child { > text-transform:uppercase;} > > span a { > color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} > > span span { > color:#ff7900;} > > span > .yiv7068114562underline { > text-decoration:underline;} > > .yiv7068114562attach { > clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px > 0;width:400px;} > > .yiv7068114562attach div a { > text-decoration:none;} > > .yiv7068114562attach img { > padding-right:5px;} > > .yiv7068114562attach label { > display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} > > .yiv7068114562attach label a { > text-decoration:none;} > > blockquote { > } > > .yiv7068114562bold { > font-weight:700;} > > .yiv7068114562bold a { > text-decoration:none;} > > dd.yiv7068114562last p a { > font-weight:700;} > > dd.yiv7068114562last p span { > margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} > > dd.yiv7068114562last p > span.yiv7068114562yshortcuts { > margin-right:0;} > > div.yiv7068114562attach-table div div a { > text-decoration:none;} > > div.yiv7068114562attach-table { > } > > div.yiv7068114562file-title a, > div.yiv7068114562file-title a:active, > div.yiv7068114562file-title a:hover, > div.yiv7068114562file-title a:visited { > text-decoration:none;} > > div.yiv7068114562photo-title a, > div.yiv7068114562photo-title a:active, > div.yiv7068114562photo-title a:hover, > div.yiv7068114562photo-title a:visited { > text-decoration:none;} > > div > p a span.yiv7068114562yshortcuts { > font-weight:normal;} > > .yiv7068114562green { > color:#628c2a;} > > .yiv7068114562MsoNormal { > } > > o { > } > > div { > float:left;width:72px;} > > div div { > border:1px solid > #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} > > div label { > color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} > > { > } > > { > } > > .yiv7068114562replbq { > } > > div a:first-child { > margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} > > { > font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, > sans-serif;} > > table { > font:100%;} > > select, > input, textarea { > font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > > pre, > code { > font:115% monospace;} > > * { > } > > { > padding-bottom:10px;} > > > p a { > } > > > p span { > color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} > > > { > color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} > > { > margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} > > > li a { > text-decoration:none;} > > > li { > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} > > > ul { > } > > { > } > > p { > } > > tt { > } > > ul li:last-child { > border-right:none !important; > } > > > > ------------------------------------ > Posted by: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > ------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo Groups Links > > > > > > >

Jensen Marine was owned by Bangor Punta from around 1965 to 1980 when Jensen became "CAL Boats" which was owned by Bangor Punta until around 1985-6 when Bangor Punta sold CAL Boats. along with O'DAY to Lear Siegler. The CAL-2-25 was built from 1977-82 so that would seem to indicate that most of them WERE built by JENSEN MARINE, the rest by the same company, just renamed "CAL BOATS", and relocated to Florida. Prior boats were built either in Costa Mesa, CA or Marlboro, NJ. Around 1985 production of CALs started to be moved to Fall River, MA and all boats were apparently built there from 1986-89. Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 was co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 (built in the NJ plant) On 30 Jul 2016 19:45:31 -0700 "mu… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: , but than again the 2-25 althogh a Lapworh design was built by Bangor Punta Marine and not by Jensen Marine, so not sure if they both built keels the same way. Posted by: mu… [at] yahoo.com How to Read Your Kids&#39; Deleted Text Messages Today, as the array of online threats multiplies, parents are increasingly ... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/579eece0268db6ce04f0bst02duc

Thank you for the clarification, I assumed that all the Mk II's were built by Bangor Punta simply because the copy of the owner's manual on this group has the Bangor Punta stamp in it, but apparantely might not be the case for all the Mk II's.