new sails

Has anyone had any experience with new sails made by Bacon Sails, Annapolis? Reggie

Hi, Reggie. A CAL 25 guy used to work at Bacon's and designed some sails for us. I bought a couple and they seemed fine. They were cut fuller which suits the boat. I know they were designed here, but cut and built offshore (pretty typical these days). The CAL 25 fellow is no longer at Bacon's, so I do not know what they are presently doing for sail design and production. I could check it out if you like. I still know some people there. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 1:06 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] new sails Has anyone had any experience with new sails made by Bacon Sails, Annapolis? Reggie

I suspect it is still a similar system. I'm considering buying a main from them. price looks good, so, from there, I guess ou hope. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:12:42 +0000 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] new sails Hi, Reggie. A CAL 25 guy used to work at Bacon’s and designed some sails for us. I bought a couple and they seemed fine. They were cut fuller which suits the boat. I know they were designed here, but cut and built offshore (pretty typical these days). The CAL 25 fellow is no longer at Bacon’s, so I do not know what they are presently doing for sail design and production. I could check it out if you like. I still know some people there. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 1:06 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] new sails Has anyone had any experience with new sails made by Bacon Sails, Annapolis? Reggie

This has been a wonderful season for sailing on Lake Erie, winning two of three regattas and second overall in our fleet with the narrowest margin between first and second of any fleet. However, in my opinion second is the worst of all positions, we were so close that if we only . My conclusion is that I need a new number one genoa for my CAL 227. My experience with number 1 headsails ( I always pick a 155 as my number 1) has been mixed. The best sail I ever had was a North Dacron sail that I bought in 1988 which I have used several times this year with good results. When I thought this sail at reached the end of its racing life 10+ years ago I bought a UK Tape Drive, this is the worst sail I ever bought. On a limited budget I used it for several years and then bought a pentex mylar from a local sailmaker my current #1, it is adequate but not as good as the Dacron sail. My thinking is that the Mylar sails I have been buying are built for too wide of a wind range (up to 20 kts) and I should buy a #1 that is good up to 14kts (my #2 is a 140% Dacron and it is wonderful, it was made by the same local sailmaker as my #1) My dilemma is should I buy Dacron or Mylar? Is my analysis correct, what do the other 227 sailors use? Are the Dacron fabrics that are made today as good as they were 25 years ago? Is there any advantage to Mylar for sailors who keep their sails more than 3-5 years? Looking forward to the discussion. John B CAL 227 #650

do you sail white sails only or fly a spinnaker? Are you required to submit sail measurements for rating purposes? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: je… [at] gmail.com Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:36:22 -0400 Subject: [Cal_Boats] New Sails This has been a wonderful season for sailing on Lake Erie, winning two of three regattas and second overall in our fleet with the narrowest margin between first and second of any fleet. However, in my opinion second is the worst of all positions, we were so close that if we only … My conclusion is that I need a new number one genoa for my CAL 227. My experience with number 1 headsails ( I always pick a 155 as my number 1) has been mixed. The best sail I ever had was a North Dacron sail that I bought in 1988 which I have used several times this year with good results. When I thought this sail at reached the end of its racing life 10+ years ago I bought a UK Tape Drive, this is the worst sail I ever bought. On a limited budget I used it for several years and then bought a pentex mylar from a local sailmaker my current #1, it is adequate but not as good as the Dacron sail. My thinking is that the Mylar sails I have been buying are built for too wide of a wind range (up to 20 kts) and I should buy a #1 that is good up to 14kts (my #2 is a 140% Dacron and it is wonderful, it was made by the same local sailmaker as my #1) My dilemma is should I buy Dacron or Mylar? Is my analysis correct, what do the other 227 sailors use? Are the Dacron fabrics that are made today as good as they were 25 years ago? Is there any advantage to Mylar for sailors who keep their sails more than 3-5 years? Looking forward to the discussion. John B CAL 227 #650

I sail under PHRF and I fly a spinnaker From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:40 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] New Sails do you sail white sails only or fly a spinnaker? Are you required to submit sail measurements for rating purposes? _____ To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: je… [at] gmail.com Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:36:22 -0400 Subject: [Cal_Boats] New Sails This has been a wonderful season for sailing on Lake Erie, winning two of three regattas and second overall in our fleet with the narrowest margin between first and second of any fleet. However, in my opinion second is the worst of all positions, we were so close that if we only . My conclusion is that I need a new number one genoa for my CAL 227. My experience with number 1 headsails ( I always pick a 155 as my number 1) has been mixed. The best sail I ever had was a North Dacron sail that I bought in 1988 which I have used several times this year with good results. When I thought this sail at reached the end of its racing life 10+ years ago I bought a UK Tape Drive, this is the worst sail I ever bought. On a limited budget I used it for several years and then bought a pentex mylar from a local sailmaker my current #1, it is adequate but not as good as the Dacron sail. My thinking is that the Mylar sails I have been buying are built for too wide of a wind range (up to 20 kts) and I should buy a #1 that is good up to 14kts (my #2 is a 140% Dacron and it is wonderful, it was made by the same local sailmaker as my #1) My dilemma is should I buy Dacron or Mylar? Is my analysis correct, what do the other 227 sailors use? Are the Dacron fabrics that are made today as good as they were 25 years ago? Is there any advantage to Mylar for sailors who keep their sails more than 3-5 years? Looking forward to the discussion. John B CAL 227 #650

I was told by a sail maker that our old CALs would sail just as fast upwind with a 100% and point higher, and that a 100% was the sail to use if you were sailing windward/leeward and flying a spinnaker downwind. As for a #1 and ratings, you might find significant time adjustments by dropping a % or two in sail saze without impacting actual speed. discuss with the sailmaker of your choice. To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: je… [at] gmail.com Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:51:38 -0400 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] New Sails I sail under PHRF and I fly a spinnaker From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:40 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] New Sails do you sail white sails only or fly a spinnaker? Are you required to submit sail measurements for rating purposes? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: je… [at] gmail.com Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:36:22 -0400 Subject: [Cal_Boats] New Sails This has been a wonderful season for sailing on Lake Erie, winning two of three regattas and second overall in our fleet with the narrowest margin between first and second of any fleet. However, in my opinion second is the worst of all positions, we were so close that if we only … My conclusion is that I need a new number one genoa for my CAL 227. My experience with number 1 headsails ( I always pick a 155 as my number 1) has been mixed. The best sail I ever had was a North Dacron sail that I bought in 1988 which I have used several times this year with good results. When I thought this sail at reached the end of its racing life 10+ years ago I bought a UK Tape Drive, this is the worst sail I ever bought. On a limited budget I used it for several years and then bought a pentex mylar from a local sailmaker my current #1, it is adequate but not as good as the Dacron sail. My thinking is that the Mylar sails I have been buying are built for too wide of a wind range (up to 20 kts) and I should buy a #1 that is good up to 14kts (my #2 is a 140% Dacron and it is wonderful, it was made by the same local sailmaker as my #1) My dilemma is should I buy Dacron or Mylar? Is my analysis correct, what do the other 227 sailors use? Are the Dacron fabrics that are made today as good as they were 25 years ago? Is there any advantage to Mylar for sailors who keep their sails more than 3-5 years? Looking forward to the discussion. John B CAL 227 #650

John, First of all, congratulations on your 2012 season racing results. On Magic, our sail inventory consists of three headsails. We just replaced our North 155% Kevlar laminate with a Doyle Stratis GPX, so the jury is out on how that sail performs. Tomorrow, if the weather permits, will be its first day. However, our 155's have always been used in conditions up to 15 kts apparent.

Three weeks ago we had a one race regatta, when we left the harbor the winds were light but were predicted to go to 15 so I opted for the #2. Five minutes before the prep gun sounded the winds piped up so we put in a reef. By the time the race started we had 20+ kts of wind with gusts to 33. Needless to say we, and everyone else, did not hoist a spinnaker. When the race ended, which we won, my knotmeter was stuck on 12. It took two days to get the smiles off of our faces. As far as waves go we sail Lake Erie, our waves are square and come from every direction. The race that pushed us into second place for the year was held on the following Wednesday, overnite and through the early part of the day the wind blew about 12-15 kts, at the time of the race it had dropped to 8 and continued down to 3-6 at the finish with significant leftover chop. These are the conditions that push me well back in the fleet. The boat does not like to push through this kind of sloppy water. I also find that we are very fast off the wind but we are weakest on the weather leg, the spread in handicap in our fleet is over 60 seconds per mile, we are in the middle. If you are performing badly going to weather due to the slop you are too far behind to catch up. John B From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 2:26 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] New Sails John, First of all, congratulations on your 2012 season racing results. On Magic, our sail inventory consists of three headsails. We just replaced our North 155% Kevlar laminate with a Doyle Stratis GPX, so the jury is out on how that sail performs. Tomorrow, if the weather permits, will be its first day. However, our 155's have always been used in conditions up to 15 kts apparent.

John, I race my CAL 29 almost every weekend here in Southern California, Ventura and Santa Barbra Channel. Most of our races go 10-16 miles off shore some more when we do the Channel Islands series so that can be 40-60 miles in every kind of condition. We have races that reach along the coast that goes no more than 2-3 miles out at times. I race with Norths Norlam 155% and love the sail, I have an old 125% Ullman #2 that is Dacron and Mylar and a North Radian #3 100% blade. My main is a North Radian Main. It has well over a hundred races on it in the last 3 years. We are still winning and it keeps out pointing the fleet. Maybe another Radian main is in the future. It is still stiff, not crinkly, but stiff. I went with the North Laminated because I use to have a Ullman carbon fiber and always have beginners on the boat, it kills me to watch them wad the sail up and shove the sail forward, for the down wind leg. So I took the stress away and got the NORLAM. I have over a hundred races on my 2009, but bought a new one at the end of 2010 for the most competitive races we have. Last year we did Ensenada on Out Patient and got a 3rd. That was more of a tactical course error because we went outside, but stayed ahead of some pretty good boats that we were racing against. Our area can get light winds no swell, light winds big swell and then 25 plus and 15 ft seas. A swell in 10 knots of breeze is hard to judge. Short handed (2-3 crew) we carry the sail to 12-14 knots apparent. With more crew (5-6) we carry it up to 17-19 knots apparent and play the traveler. if we don't have time to change sails we will reef close to the mark. Our area sees 25 knots and big swell alot so we pretty much change sails when we feel it coming up. So it is always hard to decide to go to the #2 or #3 because you need the power to get over the swell. I like Norths 155% mainly because it is powerful in the front and flat all the way back. It is not a round sail, so I am upright and pointing to the mark. Congrats on your wins and good luck in 2013. Randy CAL 2-29 Out Patient Channel Islands CA From: John Boyce <je… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 10:36 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] New Sails This has been a wonderful season for sailing on Lake Erie, winning two of three regattas and second overall in our fleet with the narrowest margin between first and second of any fleet. However, in my opinion second is the worst of all positions, we were so close that if we only … My conclusion is that I need a new number one genoa for my CAL 227. My experience with number 1 headsails ( I always pick a 155 as my number 1) has been mixed. The best sail I ever had was a North Dacron sail that I bought in 1988 which I have used several times this year with good results. When I thought this sail at reached the end of its racing life 10+ years ago I bought a UK Tape Drive, this is the worst sail I ever bought. On a limited budget I used it for several years and then bought a pentex mylar from a local sailmaker my current #1, it is adequate but not as good as the Dacron sail. My thinking is that the Mylar sails I have been buying are built for too wide of a wind range (up to 20 kts) and I should buy a #1 that is good up to 14kts (my #2 is a 140% Dacron and it is wonderful, it was made by the same local sailmaker as my #1) My dilemma is should I buy Dacron or Mylar? Is my analysis correct, what do the other 227 sailors use? Are the Dacron fabrics that are made today as good as they were 25 years ago? Is there any advantage to Mylar for sailors who keep their sails more than 3-5 years? Looking forward to the discussion. John B CAL 227 #650

Now that the boat is put away for the winter I am planning to buy a new chute. As happens every time I look at a new sail the same question arises, how do you make a decision between quotes. In my case I'm looking at at quotes between $1700 and $2700 there must be some objective criteria to distinguish between the quotes but I don't know what they are. In every case I'm looking for a .75 oz AP chute used on a reaching course. Any ideas? John B Cal 227 #650

On 10/2/2016 3:07 PM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > Now that the boat is put away for the winter I am planning to buy a > new chute. As happens every time I look at a new sail the same > question arises, how do you make a decision between quotes. In my > case I'm looking at at quotes between $1700 and $2700 there must be > some objective criteria to distinguish between the quotes but I don't > know what they are. In every case I'm looking for a .75 oz AP chute > used on a reaching course. Any ideas? > Most of us don't buy sails often enough to have a large store of experience with vendors. I tend to go by general reputation. The last sail I bought because I know the loft's local rep and he has a good reputation. I like the sail. But my brother is always saying to just type an inquiry in Google and see what comes up. Try the lofts' names and see what others have said. It may produce no info or it may give you some idea of others' experiences, positive and negative. Bear in mind that people are more likely to howl when they're unhappy than to spread praise when they are pleased, and some people howl even when the facts of the matter don't support their unhappiness. But still, you might get helpful info. Chris Campbell

It is my understanding most sails are now made off-shore. Rolly tasker sails are made in thialand, and from previous sail searches, they had great pricing. That being said, I would also suggest a local sail loft. You may pay a little more, but getting the right sail for your boat, experienced sailmakers to ensure it works. Another point, boat shows are coming soon. Most lofts are represented, and offer discounts if you order at the show. John Raxter > On Oct 4, 2016, at 11:53 AM, ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > >> On 10/2/2016 3:07 PM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: >> Now that the boat is put away for the winter I am planning to buy a new chute. As happens every time I look at a new sail the same question arises, how do you make a decision between quotes. In my case I'm looking at at quotes between $1700 and $2700 there must be some objective criteria to distinguish between the quotes but I don't know what they are. In every case I'm looking for a .75 oz AP chute used on a reaching course. Any ideas? >> > > Most of us don't buy sails often enough to have a large store of experience with vendors. I tend to go by general reputation. The last sail I bought because I know the loft's local rep and he has a good reputation. I like the sail. > > But my brother is always saying to just type an inquiry in Google and see what comes up. Try the lofts' names and see what others have said. It may produce no info or it may give you some idea of others' experiences, positive and negative. Bear in mind that people are more likely to howl when they're unhappy than to spread praise when they are pleased, and some people howl even when the facts of the matter don't support their unhappiness. But still, you might get helpful info. > > Chris Campbell > >

In spinnakers, cross cuts are usually cheaper then radials. Fewer panels, fewer seams to sew. A loft when selling a sail has to make a guess at how much hand holding a customer will require. The more full service lofts have to build into their price the obligatory one or two times out on the water and the follow ups that many sailors do just to shoot the bull. The online retailers are closer to a buy it and walk away then the local lofts can ever hope to be and tend to be cheaper. You have to decide what kind of buying experience you want and how much money you have. On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 3:07 PM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Now that the boat is put away for the winter I am planning to buy a new > chute. As happens every time I look at a new sail the same question > arises, how do you make a decision between quotes. In my case I'm looking > at at quotes between $1700 and $2700 there must be some objective criteria > to distinguish between the quotes but I don't know what they are. In every > case I'm looking for a .75 oz AP chute used on a reaching course. Any > ideas? > > John B > Cal 227 #650 > > >

Cloth, cut, and service. All change the price. I bought mine from EP Sails. Great experience. It was made in their shop and their price was good. On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:38 AM, 'sailor7312 .' sa… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > In spinnakers, cross cuts are usually cheaper then radials. Fewer panels, > fewer seams to sew. > A loft when selling a sail has to make a guess at how much hand holding a > customer will require. > The more full service lofts have to build into their price the obligatory > one or two times out on the water and the follow ups that many sailors do > just to shoot the bull. The online retailers are closer to a buy it and > walk away then the local lofts can ever hope to be > and tend to be cheaper. > > You have to decide what kind of buying experience you want and how much > money you have. > > > > > On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 3:07 PM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Now that the boat is put away for the winter I am planning to buy a new >> chute. As happens every time I look at a new sail the same question >> arises, how do you make a decision between quotes. In my case I'm looking >> at at quotes between $1700 and $2700 there must be some objective criteria >> to distinguish between the quotes but I don't know what they are. In every >> case I'm looking for a .75 oz AP chute used on a reaching course. Any >> ideas? >> >> John B >> Cal 227 #650 >> >> > >

John, I may have the perfect sail for you. See New Doyle Code 0 Spinnaker | | | | | | | | | | | New Doyle Code 0 Spinnaker This is a NEW, NEVER USED, Code 0 spinnaker with bag built by Supersailmakers for our Cal 2-27. The boat was sol... | | | | This sail was specifically made for Magic. It was a gift from one of my crew. It includes a new turtle bag. We hoisted it one time for about five minutes just to see what it looked like. The sail is at home stored in the spare bedroom. Michael DuvallPO s/v Magic, Cal 2-27, #627Pompano Beach, FL From: "John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 3:07 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] New sails Now that the boat is put away for the winter I am planning to buy a new chute. As happens every time I look at a new sail the same question arises, how do you make a decision between quotes. In my case I'm looking at at quotes between $1700 and $2700 there must be some objective criteria to distinguish between the quotes but I don't know what they are. In every case I'm looking for a .75 oz AP chute used on a reaching course. Any ideas?John B Cal 227 #650 -- {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} {margin-bottom:10px;} .yiv4329980561ad {padding:0 0;} .yiv4329980561ad p {margin:0;} .yiv4329980561ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} {font-family:Arial;} {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .yiv4329980561ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} span {font-weight:700;} span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;} span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} span span {color:#ff7900;} span .yiv4329980561underline {text-decoration:underline;} .yiv4329980561attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .yiv4329980561attach div a {text-decoration:none;} .yiv4329980561attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;} .yiv4329980561attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .yiv4329980561attach label a {text-decoration:none;} blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;} .yiv4329980561bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} .yiv4329980561bold a {text-decoration:none;} dd.yiv4329980561last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv4329980561last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv4329980561last p span.yiv4329980561yshortcuts {margin-right:0;} div.yiv4329980561attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv4329980561attach-table {width:400px;} div.yiv4329980561file-title a, div.yiv4329980561file-title a:active, div.yiv4329980561file-title a:hover, div.yiv4329980561file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div.yiv4329980561photo-title a, div.yiv4329980561photo-title a:active, div.yiv4329980561photo-title a:hover, div.yiv4329980561photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} div p a span.yiv4329980561yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} .yiv4329980561green {color:#628c2a;} .yiv4329980561MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;} o {font-size:0;} div {float:left;width:72px;} div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} {font-size:77%;} {font-size:77%;} .yiv4329980561replbq {margin:4px;} div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} select, input, textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} pre, code {font:115% monospace;} * {line-height:1.22em;} {padding-bottom:10px;} p a {font-family:Verdana;} p span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} {font-family:Georgia;} p {margin:0 0 1em 0;} tt {font-size:120%;} ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}