Re: [Cal_Boats] Spread boot size for Cal 27 Mark III?

Leather is simple, economical,organic,light, and elegant. My best, Yellow Jack US 57313. Mike Farrell From: "Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: 12/05/2016 8:54 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com,Charlie Husar <hu… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Spread boot size for Cal 27 Mark III? On my old mast I used tape. They affectionately call it million dollar tape because it is very expensive. No mast boot. The tape covered the wire and gave a very low friction surface for the sail. My new mast has spreaders 3 inches in from where the old ones were so will be less likely to be hit by the jibs perhaps. The spreaders are also attached differently so this is all new to me. (The old mast was wood, the new one aluminum). Wondering if the tape is still the way to go or if I need to do something else. Allen On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:53 AM, 'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi, Jerry. As usual, you are 1.0334 (± .0002) steps ahead of me. I was going to send out a follow-on message about the moly wire. BTW, most of what I recommend, I learned by screwing it up at least once. I should attach date stamps to my screw-ups. Two items on the moly wire: Make sure the wire ends are pointed inward or somehow hidden. I once ripped two jibs in one race because the moly wire end poked out through the spreader boot. Yes, do not make the wire too tight. When the shroud is wired and the boot is taped, you need to be able to pull the shroud back and forth through the boot. I once had to do the Cal 25 dock mast drop (patent pending – photos available) 3 times (yes, count ‘em 3) because first we led the backstay wrong, and the then we had taped the spreader boots too tight. Couldn’t pull the shroud through the boot when re-standing the mast. Good word from Helen on the trapped water. With the tape a little looser, you get better drainage. Also see note below. Timmo recommends leather boots. Of course, he sails 2,558 miles at a time. My trips are slightly more humble. I find the rubber boots to be durable enough. Look for UV protection. BTW, high quality vinyl electrical tape (say 3M 33+ or Super 88 – or if you MUST have colors, 35, but not as good) makes a very suitable rigging tape. David, watch out for the terms “small”, “medium”, “home laundry size”, and the like. Different vendors have different sizes for the “medium” spreader hole. The spreaders on my Cal 25 are 1-1/4 inches in diameter. Yours might be that or 1.5”. Look for the diameter specs on the boot. I think mine are Taylor Made medium. Here is a note from one spreader boot vendor: NOTE: Because rigging diameter and spreader styles vary widely, a precise fit is unlikely. Riggers prefer a slight gap in boot to allow for drainage and prevent corrosion. Rubber may also be trimmed to size to prevent overlap. Why is nothing ever simple? Cheers Charlie Annapolis Cal 25 and Cal 40 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 2:32 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Spread boot size for Cal 27 Mark III? Charlie, Gulp! You don't say..so..the moly wire I wrapped around the shrouds to keep them in the spreader groove..I guess you're saying...that has to allow shroud movement as well? I just securely rubber-taped my falling apart boots last month. Maybe I should re-boot me boots?! Time to drop me mast again. Hopefully the step ladder doesn't get knocked over and ends up sunk in the muck below the docks this time around. Sheeessshhh!! Jerry of Ye Olde Shpritz. Cal 24 Mk-1 On Sunday, December 4, 2016 9:19 PM, "Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: mostly the boots are to protect your sails from injury, you want to allow moisture to pass through, not get trapped in the tips and wire shrouds. You also probably need to know how those different types of material stand up to UV light. Some riggers even use leather. Helen On Sunday, December 4, 2016 3:59 PM, "David Field fi… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Thanks Charlie for the taping suggestion! Medium it is. Now for another question: I checked the spread boots from West Marine... which include Sea Dog at $27.99 and Taylor Made at $38.99. And then, from Wholesale Marine a pair of Whitecap Rubber Spreader Boot - Pair - Medium - White for $11.46. Generally I kinda feel I'm getting more for my money if I spend more. But spreader boots? What do you think? David On Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:03 PM, "'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: David, if you have pole spreaders, the boots would be medium. When you tape them, don’t make it super tight. The shroud has to be able to slide through for rig adjustment purposes. Best of Luck Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 6:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Spread boot size for Cal 27 Mark III? Before climbing the mast with the wrong size speader boots for my Cal 27 Mark III, I'd like to confirm that they're the medium size. Thanks for any responses! David Cal 27 Mark III

Mike, it definitely does the trick, but don’t let the PETA people get you. I’m not up on the wear and UV characteristics other than a few coats I’ve had. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:08 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Allen Edwards <al… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Spread boot size for Cal 27 Mark III? Leather is simple, economical,organic,light, and elegant. My best, Yellow Jack US 57313. Mike Farrell From: "Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com <mailto:al… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: 12/05/2016 8:54 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com,Charlie <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com,Charlie> Husar <hu… [at] gmail.com <mailto:hu… [at] gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Spread boot size for Cal 27 Mark III? On my old mast I used tape. They affectionately call it million dollar tape because it is very expensive. No mast boot. The tape covered the wire and gave a very low friction surface for the sail. My new mast has spreaders 3 inches in from where the old ones were so will be less likely to be hit by the jibs perhaps. The spreaders are also attached differently so this is all new to me. (The old mast was wood, the new one aluminum). Wondering if the tape is still the way to go or if I need to do something else. Allen On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:53 AM, 'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com <mailto:hu… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Hi, Jerry. As usual, you are 1.0334 (± .0002) steps ahead of me. I was going to send out a follow-on message about the moly wire. BTW, most of what I recommend, I learned by screwing it up at least once. I should attach date stamps to my screw-ups. Two items on the moly wire: Make sure the wire ends are pointed inward or somehow hidden. I once ripped two jibs in one race because the moly wire end poked out through the spreader boot. Yes, do not make the wire too tight. When the shroud is wired and the boot is taped, you need to be able to pull the shroud back and forth through the boot. I once had to do the Cal 25 dock mast drop (patent pending – photos available) 3 times (yes, count ‘em 3) because first we led the backstay wrong, and the then we had taped the spreader boots too tight. Couldn’t pull the shroud through the boot when re-standing the mast. Good word from Helen on the trapped water. With the tape a little looser, you get better drainage. Also see note below. Timmo recommends leather boots. Of course, he sails 2,558 miles at a time. My trips are slightly more humble. I find the rubber boots to be durable enough. Look for UV protection. BTW, high quality vinyl electrical tape (say 3M 33+ or Super 88 – or if you MUST have colors, 35, but not as good) makes a very suitable rigging tape. David, watch out for the terms “small”, “medium”, “home laundry size”, and the like. Different vendors have different sizes for the “medium” spreader hole. The spreaders on my Cal 25 are 1-1/4 inches in diameter. Yours might be that or 1.5”. Look for the diameter specs on the boot. I think mine are Taylor Made medium. Here is a note from one spreader boot vendor: NOTE: Because rigging diameter and spreader styles vary widely, a precise fit is unlikely. Riggers prefer a slight gap in boot to allow for drainage and prevent corrosion. Rubber may also be trimmed to size to prevent overlap. Why is nothing ever simple? Cheers Charlie Annapolis Cal 25 and Cal 40 From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 2:32 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ; Helen Horn <he… [at] sbcglobal.net <mailto:he… [at] sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Spread boot size for Cal 27 Mark III? Charlie, Gulp! You don't say..so..the moly wire I wrapped around the shrouds to keep them in the spreader groove..I guess you're saying...that has to allow shroud movement as well? I just securely rubber-taped my falling apart boots last month. Maybe I should re-boot me boots?! Time to drop me mast again. Hopefully the step ladder doesn't get knocked over and ends up sunk in the muck below the docks this time around. Sheeessshhh!! Jerry of Ye Olde Shpritz. Cal 24 Mk-1 On Sunday, December 4, 2016 9:19 PM, "Helen Horn he… [at] sbcglobal.net <mailto:he… [at] sbcglobal.net> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: mostly the boots are to protect your sails from injury, you want to allow moisture to pass through, not get trapped in the tips and wire shrouds. You also probably need to know how those different types of material stand up to UV light. Some riggers even use leather. Helen On Sunday, December 4, 2016 3:59 PM, "David Field fi… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:fi… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Thanks Charlie for the taping suggestion! Medium it is. Now for another question: I checked the spread boots from West Marine... which include Sea Dog at $27.99 and Taylor Made at $38.99. And then, from Wholesale Marine a pair of Whitecap Rubber Spreader Boot - Pair - Medium - White for $11.46. Generally I kinda feel I'm getting more for my money if I spend more. But spreader boots? What do you think? David On Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:03 PM, "'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com <mailto:hu… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: David, if you have pole spreaders, the boots would be medium. When you tape them, don’t make it super tight. The shroud has to be able to slide through for rig adjustment purposes. Best of Luck Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 6:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Spread boot size for Cal 27 Mark III? Before climbing the mast with the wrong size speader boots for my Cal 27 Mark III, I'd like to confirm that they're the medium size. Thanks for any responses! David Cal 27 Mark III

Chris, Exactly what I've always done... although I don't have one of those fancy tools. I also don't clamp the shroud in a "death-grip", just enough to firmly hold it in place. We had a flag halyard on the starboard spreader of our old CAL 21 and to stop the spreader fro working it's way down the shroud, I ended up placing a small stainless-steel cable clamp beneath the spreader. Not ideal, but it worked. I have the spreaders on my DS II wired to the shrouds and then taped over with "self-amalgameting" tape (rubber tape that only sticks to itself) that works pretty good, but I still need to goose the spreader tip up slightly periodically. Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 was co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 11:00:11 -0500 "ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: On 12/5/2016 2:31 AM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: Charlie, Gulp! You don't say..so..the moly wire I wrapped around the shrouds to keep them in the spreader groove..I guess you're saying...that has to allow shroud movement as well? My other boat has spreaders that attach to the mast via a hinged fitting, allowing motion up and down. The ideal spreader position is one that makes the spreader bisect the angle the shroud makes when the spreader pokes into it. The spreaders make a slight "V" when seen from forward or aft. I want my spreader tips to be fixed on the shroud wire. I've got stainless wire, tightly wrapped by a funny little gadget that my brother gave me for using wrapped wire as a clamp (can't recall the name). It's below and above the spreader, trapping it on the shroud. My Cal 20 has hinges too, so I did the same thing on it--tightly wrapped stainless that traps the spreader tip and holds it in position. I've seen neglected boats that had drooping spreaders. They had relied on shroud tension to hold spreader tips in place. The shrouds had become loose as the turnbuckles unscrewed from wave action, and the hinged spreaders slid right down, obeying gravity. Chris Campbell Unbelievably Sad Stories Of These Stars Tragic Accidents hooch.net http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/584adfa6dd1265fa61338st03duc

On 12/9/2016 11:44 AM, rj… [at] juno.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: >  > > Chris, > Exactly what I've always done... although I don't have one of those > fancy tools. I also don't clamp the shroud in a "death-grip", just > enough to firmly hold it in place. We had a flag halyard on the > starboard spreader of our old CAL 21 and to stop the spreader fro > working it's way down the shroud, I ended up placing a small > stainless-steel cable clamp beneath the spreader. Not ideal, but it > worked. > I have the spreaders on my DS II wired to the shrouds and then taped > over with "self-amalgameting" tape (rubber tape that only sticks to > itself) that works pretty good, but I still need to goose the spreader > tip up slightly periodically. The little tool is better described as "clever" than "fancy." My brother sent it to me after seeing an ad. Basically, it gives you some purchase on the wrapping wire so it can be stretched very slightly to give a tight grip. I'll try to remember to check on the name when I go home. I'm not worried about its effect on the shroud--just a few wraps, no exclusion of oxygen. I also had the flag halyard issue, pulling down on the spreader on both boats. And there was also the problem of the spreader tip moving along the shroud wire during launch and mast-stepping operations. The little wire clamp solves the problems. Chris Campbell >

the tool is called "ClampTite".

On 12/10/2016 6:27 AM, ke… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > the tool is called "ClampTite". So somebody else got one for a birthday present, eh? Chris Campbell > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >