Re: [Cal_Boats] Scratches / Rudder / thru hulls

Well, the first thing to do is replace all those Brass thru-hulls with either Bronze or Marelon (a reinforced plastic), you don't want Brass, since it is not as corrosion resistant as Bronze (Brass is Copper/Zinc alloy, Bronze is Copper/Tin Alloy). Brass will be much cheaper than bronze, but I wouldn't trust it, too important to risk the cheap solution! I am not even sure if you can buy Brass thru-hulls...... but I guess the previous owner must have found a source (Definitely not original, CAL would have used bronze). I'd also be sure that the thru-hulls and the seacocks are of the same material, bronze thru-hulls with bronze seacocks or Marelon thru-hulls with Marelon seacocks. This is due to the metal and plastics having different coefficients of expansion which can cause leaks or outright failures as the two materials expand/contract at different rates. We used a Marelon thru-hull with a Marelon ball-valve on the sink drain that we installed on our old CAL 21. As far as removing the rudder..... I can't give absolute advice since all my experience is with outboard rudders (solid mahogany on the CAL 21 and fiberglass on the O'Day DS II) and removing the rudder is easy (in fact on both boats the rudder was removed and stowed below during the week while not sailing. My understanding is that it is BEST to remove the rudder for the Winter even with an inboard rudder, but not exactly easy! Filling the scratches, depends on how deep they are. If they do not completely penetrate the gelcoat, I would clean them out thoroughly and wipe with alcohol or acetone to dry and dewax, then fill with a gelcoat repair paste, they sell gelcoat repair kits with the paste and small tube of color tint, fill the scratch and cover with wax paper or plastic wrap (follow directions on repair kit). After it cures, buff it smooth and level. If the scratch goes deeper than the gelcoat, you should use a marine polyester filler (NOT BONDO!!!!), once it cures, sand it smooth and level, then apply gelcoat over the filler, allow gelcoat to cure (may need to do the wax paper/plastic wrap cover) then buff it smooth. Gelcoat will not properly cure over Epoxy, so that is why polyester filler needs to be used. Although, if your hull is white, you COULD use "Marine-Tex" Epoxy filler/putty (also comes in dark grey) and then skip the gelcoat over the repair. I have filled scratches on my boat using that and it is pretty easy to work with (although it doesn't quite match the light tan of my deck and definitely doesn't match the yellow topsides on the hull..... I think you could tint the white Marine-Tex with a coloring agent compatible with epoxy). Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:23:55 -0500 "Mike's Yahoo mi… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: I pulled my boat for the winter. I have questions for the group about 3 things: Scratches: I noticed a few scratches in the gelcoat (must have been that sailing group Jerry mentioned j/k). A few are real small (less than 1/4 round), but at least one is roughly 6" long scratch. I read somewhere that when addressing these types of things, rather than using gelcoat, it is recommended to use epoxy or even fairing compound. I suppose if I used epoxy, I would make a half moon of tape, fill the scratch and later sand off the excess. Should I then use some gelcoat to color match? Rudder: I didn't take off the rudder. Is it a good idea to do so? If so, I'm not sure there is enough clearance to pull it out. Is the rudder stock long? Thoughts on whether it's a good idea to remove it? Thru-hulls: my cal has 3. One for galley sink, second is seawater to sink (via non-functioning whale pump) other for sink in head. All are brass sleeves, with threaded plastic seacocks attached about 4" inside the hull. The galley sink seacock seized up, so it needs attention. I thought of glazing over one in the galley and/or replace all with brass seacocks. I have no strong preference except I want to keep cost low. The yard estimated 2 hours of work for glass over job. Thoughts? Best, Mike Casillo Invincible Summer Cal 2-25 Annapolis How To Remove Eye Bags & Lip Lines Fast (Watch) Womans Weekly http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58673f81930b83f810335st51duc

I seriously doubt that the through hulls are brass as in the alloy you describe. I have heard bronze called naval brass. I would think that if they were brass, the boat would have sunk long ago. I suspect when brass was said, maval brass, ie bronze, was what was being discussed. On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 9:16 PM, rj… [at] juno.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Well, the first thing to do is replace all those Brass thru-hulls with > either Bronze or Marelon (a reinforced plastic), you don't want Brass, > since it is not as corrosion resistant as Bronze (Brass is Copper/Zinc > alloy, Bronze is Copper/Tin Alloy). Brass will be much cheaper than bronze, > but I wouldn't trust it, too important to risk the cheap solution! I am not > even sure if you can buy Brass thru-hulls...... but I guess the previous > owner must have found a source (Definitely *not* original, CAL would have > used bronze). > I'd also be sure that the thru-hulls and the seacocks are of the same > material, bronze thru-hulls with bronze seacocks or Marelon thru-hulls with > Marelon seacocks. This is due to the metal and plastics having different > coefficients of expansion which can cause leaks or outright failures as the > two materials expand/contract at different rates. We used a Marelon > thru-hull with a Marelon ball-valve on the sink drain that we installed on > our old CAL 21. > > As far as removing the rudder..... I can't give absolute advice since all > my experience is with outboard rudders (solid mahogany on the CAL 21 and > fiberglass on the O'Day DS II) and removing the rudder is easy (in fact on > both boats the rudder was removed and stowed below during the week while > not sailing. My understanding is that it is BEST to remove the rudder for > the Winter even with an inboard rudder, but not exactly easy! > > Filling the scratches, depends on how deep they are. If they do not > completely penetrate the gelcoat, I would clean them out thoroughly and > wipe with alcohol or acetone to dry and dewax, then fill with a gelcoat > repair paste, they sell gelcoat repair kits with the paste and small tube > of color tint, fill the scratch and cover with wax paper or plastic wrap > (follow directions on repair kit). After it cures, buff it smooth and > level. If the scratch goes deeper than the gelcoat, you should use a marine > polyester filler (NOT BONDO!!!!), once it cures, sand it smooth and > level, then apply gelcoat over the filler, allow gelcoat to cure (may need > to do the wax paper/plastic wrap cover) then buff it smooth. Gelcoat will > not properly cure over Epoxy, so that is why polyester filler needs to be > used. Although, if your hull is white, you COULD use "Marine-Tex" Epoxy > filler/putty (also comes in dark grey) and then skip the gelcoat over the > repair. I have filled scratches on my boat using that and it is pretty easy > to work with (although it doesn't quite match the light tan of my deck and > definitely doesn't match the yellow topsides on the hull..... I think you > could tint the white Marine-Tex with a coloring agent compatible with > epoxy). > > Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" > 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 > former co-owner of "NODROG" > 1970 CAL 21 #285 > > On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:23:55 -0500 "Mike's Yahoo mi… [at] yahoo.com > [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: > > > > I pulled my boat for the winter. I have questions for the group about 3 > things: > > Scratches: I noticed a few scratches in the gelcoat (must have been that > sailing group Jerry mentioned j/k). A few are real small (less than 1/4 > round), but at least one is roughly 6" long scratch. I read somewhere that > when addressing these types of things, rather than using gelcoat, it is > recommended to use epoxy or even fairing compound. I suppose if I used > epoxy, I would make a half moon of tape, fill the scratch and later sand > off the excess. Should I then use some gelcoat to color match? > > Rudder: I didn't take off the rudder. Is it a good idea to do so? If so, > I'm not sure there is enough clearance to pull it out. Is the rudder stock > long? Thoughts on whether it's a good idea to remove it? > > Thru-hulls: my cal has 3. One for galley sink, second is seawater to sink > (via non-functioning whale pump) other for sink in head. All are brass > sleeves, with threaded plastic seacocks attached about 4" inside the hull. > The galley sink seacock seized up, so it needs attention. I thought of > glazing over one in the galley and/or replace all with brass seacocks. I > have no strong preference except I want to keep cost low. The yard > estimated 2 hours of work for glass over job. Thoughts? > > Best, > > Mike Casillo > Invincible Summer Cal 2-25 > Annapolis > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > *How To Remove Eye Bags Lip Lines Fast (Watch)* > Womans Weekly > <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/58673f81930b83f810335st51duc> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/58673f81930b83f810335st51duc > [image: SponsoredBy Content.Ad] > > >

Allen, I am almost certain that the mentioned thru-hulls ARE in fact Bronze, but since Brass was what they were called, I wanted to caution that normal Brass is NOT what you want for marine thru-hulls. He didn't say "Naval Brass", so I had to assume normal Brass. Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 22:05:40 -0800 "Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: I seriously doubt that the through hulls are brass as in the alloy you describe. I have heard bronze called naval brass. I would think that if they were brass, the boat would have sunk long ago. I suspect when brass was said, maval brass, ie bronze, was what was being discussed. On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 9:16 PM, rj… [at] juno.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Well, the first thing to do is replace all those Brass thru-hulls with either Bronze or Marelon (a reinforced plastic), you don't want Brass, since it is not as corrosion resistant as Bronze (Brass is Copper/Zinc alloy, Bronze is Copper/Tin Alloy). Brass will be much cheaper than bronze, but I wouldn't trust it, too important to risk the cheap solution! I am not even sure if you can buy Brass thru-hulls...... but I guess the previous owner must have found a source (Definitely not original, CAL would have used bronze). I'd also be sure that the thru-hulls and the seacocks are of the same material, bronze thru-hulls with bronze seacocks or Marelon thru-hulls with Marelon seacocks. This is due to the metal and plastics having different coefficients of expansion which can cause leaks or outright failures as the two materials expand/contract at different rates. We used a Marelon thru-hull with a Marelon ball-valve on the sink drain that we installed on our old CAL 21. As far as removing the rudder..... I can't give absolute advice since all my experience is with outboard rudders (solid mahogany on the CAL 21 and fiberglass on the O'Day DS II) and removing the rudder is easy (in fact on both boats the rudder was removed and stowed below during the week while not sailing. My understanding is that it is BEST to remove the rudder for the Winter even with an inboard rudder, but not exactly easy! Filling the scratches, depends on how deep they are. If they do not completely penetrate the gelcoat, I would clean them out thoroughly and wipe with alcohol or acetone to dry and dewax, then fill with a gelcoat repair paste, they sell gelcoat repair kits with the paste and small tube of color tint, fill the scratch and cover with wax paper or plastic wrap (follow directions on repair kit). After it cures, buff it smooth and level. If the scratch goes deeper than the gelcoat, you should use a marine polyester filler (NOT BONDO!!!!), once it cures, sand it smooth and level, then apply gelcoat over the filler, allow gelcoat to cure (may need to do the wax paper/plastic wrap cover) then buff it smooth. Gelcoat will not properly cure over Epoxy, so that is why polyester filler needs to be used. Although, if your hull is white, you COULD use "Marine-Tex" Epoxy filler/putty (also comes in dark grey) and then skip the gelcoat over the repair. I have filled scratches on my boat using that and it is pretty easy to work with (although it doesn't quite match the light tan of my deck and definitely doesn't match the yellow topsides on the hull..... I think you could tint the white Marine-Tex with a coloring agent compatible with epoxy). Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:23:55 -0500 "Mike's Yahoo mi… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: I pulled my boat for the winter. I have questions for the group about 3 things: Scratches: I noticed a few scratches in the gelcoat (must have been that sailing group Jerry mentioned j/k). A few are real small (less than 1/4 round), but at least one is roughly 6" long scratch. I read somewhere that when addressing these types of things, rather than using gelcoat, it is recommended to use epoxy or even fairing compound. I suppose if I used epoxy, I would make a half moon of tape, fill the scratch and later sand off the excess. Should I then use some gelcoat to color match? Rudder: I didn't take off the rudder. Is it a good idea to do so? If so, I'm not sure there is enough clearance to pull it out. Is the rudder stock long? Thoughts on whether it's a good idea to remove it? Thru-hulls: my cal has 3. One for galley sink, second is seawater to sink (via non-functioning whale pump) other for sink in head. All are brass sleeves, with threaded plastic seacocks attached about 4" inside the hull. The galley sink seacock seized up, so it needs attention. I thought of glazing over one in the galley and/or replace all with brass seacocks. I have no strong preference except I want to keep cost low. The yard estimated 2 hours of work for glass over job. Thoughts? Best, Mike Casillo Invincible Summer Cal 2-25 Annapolis How To Remove Eye Bags Lip Lines Fast (Watch) Womans Weekly http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/58673f81930b83f810335st51duc

If your rudder is anything like the one i have on my Cal39 MK II the main shaft goes all the way to the base of the cockpit. I just removed my rudder a few months back and had to dig a 3' hole below the rudder to drop it out and clear the hull. If you have any play in the shaft this is the best time to address that as well. If your cutlass bearing is loose take care of that as well. I dropped the rudder and reinstalled all on my own but would have been a lot easier with some help. Hit me up if you have any question as for the rudder. The Alaskan Spirit

Sorry for the confusion. My mistake on the metal composition - the thru hulls are most certainly bronze not brass. Best, Mike > On Dec 31, 2016, at 1:29 AM, rj… [at] juno.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > [Attachment(s) from rj… [at] juno.com included below] >  > > Allen, I am almost certain that the mentioned thru-hulls ARE in fact Bronze, but since Brass was what they were called, I wanted to caution that normal Brass is NOT what you want for marine thru-hulls. He didn't say "Naval Brass", so I had to assume normal Brass. > > Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" > > On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 22:05:40 -0800 "Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: > > I seriously doubt that the through hulls are brass as in the alloy you describe. I have heard bronze called naval brass. I would think that if they were brass, the boat would have sunk long ago. I suspect when brass was said, maval brass, ie bronze, was what was being discussed. > >> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 9:16 PM, rj… [at] juno.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: >> >> >> Well, the first thing to do is replace all those Brass thru-hulls with either Bronze or Marelon (a reinforced plastic), you don't want Brass, since it is not as corrosion resistant as Bronze (Brass is Copper/Zinc alloy, Bronze is Copper/Tin Alloy). Brass will be much cheaper than bronze, but I wouldn't trust it, too important to risk the cheap solution! I am not even sure if you can buy Brass thru-hulls...... but I guess the previous owner must have found a source (Definitely not original, CAL would have used bronze). >> I'd also be sure that the thru-hulls and the seacocks are of the same material, bronze thru-hulls with bronze seacocks or Marelon thru-hulls with Marelon seacocks. This is due to the metal and plastics having different coefficients of expansion which can cause leaks or outright failures as the two materials expand/contract at different rates. We used a Marelon thru-hull with a Marelon ball-valve on the sink drain that we installed on our old CAL 21. >> >> As far as removing the rudder..... I can't give absolute advice since all my experience is with outboard rudders (solid mahogany on the CAL 21 and fiberglass on the O'Day DS II) and removing the rudder is easy (in fact on both boats the rudder was removed and stowed below during the week while not sailing. My understanding is that it is BEST to remove the rudder for the Winter even with an inboard rudder, but not exactly easy! >> >> Filling the scratches, depends on how deep they are. If they do not completely penetrate the gelcoat, I would clean them out thoroughly and wipe with alcohol or acetone to dry and dewax, then fill with a gelcoat repair paste, they sell gelcoat repair kits with the paste and small tube of color tint, fill the scratch and cover with wax paper or plastic wrap (follow directions on repair kit). After it cures, buff it smooth and level. If the scratch goes deeper than the gelcoat, you should use a marine polyester filler (NOT BONDO!!!!), once it cures, sand it smooth and level, then apply gelcoat over the filler, allow gelcoat to cure (may need to do the wax paper/plastic wrap cover) then buff it smooth. Gelcoat will not properly cure over Epoxy, so that is why polyester filler needs to be used. Although, if your hull is white, you COULD use "Marine-Tex" Epoxy filler/putty (also comes in dark grey) and then skip the gelcoat over the repair. I have filled scratches on my boat using that and it is pretty easy to work with (although it doesn't quite match the light tan of my deck and definitely doesn't match the yellow topsides on the hull..... I think you could tint the white Marine-Tex with a coloring agent compatible with epoxy). >> >> Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" >> 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 >> former co-owner of "NODROG" >> 1970 CAL 21 #285 >> >> On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:23:55 -0500 "Mike's Yahoo mi… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> writes: >> >> I pulled my boat for the winter. I have questions for the group about 3 things: >> >> Scratches: I noticed a few scratches in the gelcoat (must have been that sailing group Jerry mentioned j/k). A few are real small (less than 1/4 round), but at least one is roughly 6" long scratch. I read somewhere that when addressing these types of things, rather than using gelcoat, it is recommended to use epoxy or even fairing compound. I suppose if I used epoxy, I would make a half moon of tape, fill the scratch and later sand off the excess. Should I then use some gelcoat to color match? >> >> Rudder: I didn't take off the rudder. Is it a good idea to do so? If so, I'm not sure there is enough clearance to pull it out. Is the rudder stock long? Thoughts on whether it's a good idea to remove it? >> >> Thru-hulls: my cal has 3. One for galley sink, second is seawater to sink (via non-functioning whale pump) other for sink in head. All are brass sleeves, with threaded plastic seacocks attached about 4" inside the hull. The galley sink seacock seized up, so it needs attention. I thought of glazing over one in the galley and/or replace all with brass seacocks. I have no strong preference except I want to keep cost low. The yard estimated 2 hours of work for glass over job. Thoughts? >> >> Best, >> >> Mike Casillo >> Invincible Summer Cal 2-25 >> Annapolis >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> How To Remove Eye Bags Lip Lines Fast (Watch) >> Womans Weekly >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/58673f81930b83f810335st51duc >> > > > > <1464031581_phpFA8bON>