Tiller hard as hell to hold

Aloha Cal owners! Happy new year! Well I worked on my boat all last year an finally made my Maiden voyage around the Hawaiian islands on O'lali. 25 days I was gone an sailed some incredible channel waves an winds. I loved the way she handled the waves an wind, except with the rudder! It was all I could do to hold her from going up to wind at times, an a couple times actually didn't want to continue the pressure for fear of breaking something an went up an around to head downwind again. Even backwinding the jib O'lali stayed balanced with over 20 knots an came around. So I know I must de-power more maybe, but I couldn't move from my braced position. So what was I doing wrong, an why would there be so much rudder pressure??? I sailed outside Kona over th holiday an had ten knots of wind and noticed the same thing tiller took a lot of pressure to steer while I was setting up sails an vane. My vane hasn't been working right in heavy winds an I think it's because of how hard it is to steer. Sure interested in your anyone's help! Bobby G Cal-2 30 Masthead rig

On 1/5/2017 2:25 PM, Bob Guarino hr… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > Aloha Cal owners! Happy new year! > Well I worked on my boat all last year an finally made my Maiden voyage around the Hawaiian islands on O'lali. 25 days I was gone an sailed some incredible channel waves an winds. I loved the way she handled the waves an wind, except with the rudder! It was all I could do to hold her from going up to wind at times, an a couple times actually didn't want to continue the pressure for fear of breaking something an went up an around to head downwind again. Even backwinding the jib O'lali stayed balanced with over 20 knots an came around. So I know I must de-power more maybe, but I couldn't move from my braced position. So what was I doing wrong, an why would there be so much rudder pressure??? I sailed outside Kona over th holiday an had ten knots of wind and noticed the same thing tiller took a lot of pressure to steer while I was setting up sails an vane. My vane hasn't been working right in heavy winds an I think it's because of how hard it is to steer. Sure interested in your anyone's help! Excessive weather helm is caused by the center of effort being too far behind the center of lateral resistance in the keel--wrong mast rake. Tilt the mast forward to reduce it, and/or use smaller jibs. And--speaking from experience here--it's caused by being a cheapskate and sailing with elderly sails that are all baggy. On my other boat, I finally replaced the very elderly working jib and wow, what a difference! Now the boat moves forward instead of heeling over and rounding up. Now I need a new mainsail, too. And finally, you can use sail-shape controls to affect the draft of the sails and make them more efficient for the level of wind and point of sail you're on. One such control is the forestay/backstay tension, which may also affect the mast rake issue. Chris Campbell > >

The key is maintaining balance when depowering. In general, if you have a lot of helm, let more main out or reef. If you are layed over w a flogging main , get a smaller jib. > On Jan 5, 2017, at 2:25 PM, Bob Guarino hr… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Aloha Cal owners! Happy new year! > Well I worked on my boat all last year an finally made my Maiden voyage around the Hawaiian islands on O'lali. 25 days I was gone an sailed some incredible channel waves an winds. I loved the way she handled the waves an wind, except with the rudder! It was all I could do to hold her from going up to wind at times, an a couple times actually didn't want to continue the pressure for fear of breaking something an went up an around to head downwind again. Even backwinding the jib O'lali stayed balanced with over 20 knots an came around. So I know I must de-power more maybe, but I couldn't move from my braced position. So what was I doing wrong, an why would there be so much rudder pressure??? I sailed outside Kona over th holiday an had ten knots of wind and noticed the same thing tiller took a lot of pressure to steer while I was setting up sails an vane. My vane hasn't been working right in heavy winds an I think it's because of how hard it is to steer. Sure interested in your anyone's help! > > Bobby G > Cal-2 30 > Masthead rig > > Sent from my iPhone > > Sent from my iPhone >

Are you using tel tales on the trailing edges of your mainsail to properly trim your mainsail? If you're overpowered, let the mains'l out until it just starts to luff. Likewise, are you using tel tales about 8-12" from the luff of your jib/Genoa? If you rule out a miss-trimmed main, it could be something else. Perhaps the positioning of the mast fore-aft angle? I'm assuming you have the same problem on both tacks.Jerry of Cal 24-1 Shpritz. On Thursday, January 5, 2017 12:13 PM, "ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: On 1/5/2017 2:25 PM, Bob Guarino hr… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > Aloha Cal owners! Happy new year! > Well I worked on my boat all last year an finally made my Maiden voyage around the Hawaiian islands on O'lali. 25 days I was gone an sailed some incredible channel waves an winds. I loved the way she handled the waves an wind, except with the rudder! It was all I could do to hold her from going up to wind at times, an a couple times actually didn't want to continue the pressure for fear of breaking something an went up an around to head downwind again. Even backwinding the jib O'lali stayed balanced with over 20 knots an came around. So I know I must de-power more maybe, but I couldn't move from my braced position. So what was I doing wrong, an why would there be so much rudder pressure??? I sailed outside Kona over th holiday an had ten knots of wind and noticed the same thing tiller took a lot of pressure to steer while I was setting up sails an vane. My vane hasn't been working right in heavy winds an I think it's because of how hard it is to steer. Sure interested in your anyone's help! Excessive weather helm is caused by the center of effort being too far behind the center of lateral resistance in the keel--wrong mast rake. Tilt the mast forward to reduce it, and/or use smaller jibs. And--speaking from experience here--it's caused by being a cheapskate and sailing with elderly sails that are all baggy. On my other boat, I finally replaced the very elderly working jib and wow, what a difference! Now the boat moves forward instead of heeling over and rounding up. Now I need a new mainsail, too. And finally, you can use sail-shape controls to affect the draft of the sails and make them more efficient for the level of wind and point of sail you're on. One such control is the forestay/backstay tension, which may also affect the mast rake issue. Chris Campbell > > ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links

Thanks guys! Answer to your questions: I have a new mainsail an my 100% jib is heavy duty an almost new. I've been trimming the sails so the the telltales fly. I've been sheeting flatter an letting my traveler spill air when I'm overpowered. But youve all mentioned mast rake an my rigger here did rake my mast back some an told me that's how he wanted I should run it. In Maui, after sailing 5 different channels I noticed a spreader higher than it should be an realized my new rigging had stretched some. I gave all the turnbuckles a couple turns alternating, till they snuged up an planned on having Gary come check on it with his gauge now that I'm home in kona. I look now at my mast an it's raked at least back as much as he had it maybe more! I had the problem sailing the Alenuihaha channel at the beginning of my trip too. Most of my crossings were on starboard tack so don't remember if it's as bad on port tack. On the way back, after 22 days, the wind died and it was like a lake so I motored home, hense, not able to compare tacks. But in the heavy sea's an downwind surfing I did if I let it get over a bit to starboard it wanted to round up to starboard badly and it was all I could do to get it down wind again. > On Jan 5, 2017, at 10:34 AM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Are you using tel tales on the trailing edges of your mainsail to properly trim your mainsail? If you're overpowered, let the mains'l out until it just starts to luff. Likewise, are you using tel tales about 8-12" from the luff of your jib/Genoa? If you rule out a miss-trimmed main, it could be something else. Perhaps the positioning of the mast fore-aft angle? I'm assuming you have the same problem on both tacks. > Jerry of Cal 24-1 Shpritz. > > > On Thursday, January 5, 2017 12:13 PM, "ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > > On 1/5/2017 2:25 PM, Bob Guarino hr… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > Aloha Cal owners! Happy new year! > > Well I worked on my boat all last year an finally made my Maiden voyage around the Hawaiian islands on O'lali. 25 days I was gone an sailed some incredible channel waves an winds. I loved the way she handled the waves an wind, except with the rudder! It was all I could do to hold her from going up to wind at times, an a couple times actually didn't want to continue the pressure for fear of breaking something an went up an around to head downwind again. Even backwinding the jib O'lali stayed balanced with over 20 knots an came around. So I know I must de-power more maybe, but I couldn't move from my braced position. So what was I doing wrong, an why would there be so much rudder pressure??? I sailed outside Kona over th holiday an had ten knots of wind and noticed the same thing tiller took a lot of pressure to steer while I was setting up sails an vane. My vane hasn't been working right in heavy winds an I think it's because of how hard it is to steer. Sure interested in your anyone's help! > > > Excessive weather helm is caused by the center of effort being too far > behind the center of lateral resistance in the keel--wrong mast rake. > Tilt the mast forward to reduce it, and/or use smaller jibs. > > And--speaking from experience here--it's caused by being a cheapskate > and sailing with elderly sails that are all baggy. On my other boat, I > finally replaced the very elderly working jib and wow, what a > difference! Now the boat moves forward instead of heeling over and > rounding up. Now I need a new mainsail, too. > > And finally, you can use sail-shape controls to affect the draft of the > sails and make them more efficient for the level of wind and point of > sail you're on. One such control is the forestay/backstay tension, > which may also affect the mast rake issue. > > Chris Campbell > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo Groups Links > > > > > > >

Hi, Bobby. You might try moving the masthead forward. And then there is fiddling with the main. Congrats on the maiden voyage. Take Care Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2017 2:26 PM To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tiller hard as hell to hold Aloha Cal owners! Happy new year! Well I worked on my boat all last year an finally made my Maiden voyage around the Hawaiian islands on O'lali. 25 days I was gone an sailed some incredible channel waves an winds. I loved the way she handled the waves an wind, except with the rudder! It was all I could do to hold her from going up to wind at times, an a couple times actually didn't want to continue the pressure for fear of breaking something an went up an around to head downwind again. Even backwinding the jib O'lali stayed balanced with over 20 knots an came around. So I know I must de-power more maybe, but I couldn't move from my braced position. So what was I doing wrong, an why would there be so much rudder pressure??? I sailed outside Kona over th holiday an had ten knots of wind and noticed the same thing tiller took a lot of pressure to steer while I was setting up sails an vane. My vane hasn't been working right in heavy winds an I think it's because of how hard it is to steer. Sure interested in your anyone's help! Bobby G Cal-2 30 Masthead rig ------------------------------------ Posted by: Bob Guarino <hr… [at] yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links