Wooden Spreaders

A close inspection of our wooden spreaders using a straight-edge, has revealed a slight degree of upturn in the shroud end 1/3. Is this a huge concern? Also, if replacement is the option, what kind of wood was originally used? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Brian and Claudia Cal 30

Sitca spruce. cal_reality_30 <ca… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: A close inspection of our wooden spreaders using a straight-edge, has revealed a slight degree of upturn in the shroud end 1/3. Is this a huge concern? Also, if replacement is the option, what kind of wood was originally used? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Brian and Claudia Cal 30 SPONSORED LINKS Boating sailing Sailing boat Sailing Boating --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

Thank you, I have been able to find a source for the lumber. Is it normal practice to fashion one's own spreaders when they need replacing? Also, does anyone know if that uplift at the outboard end 1/3 of the spreader warrants replacing the spreaders? All input is greatly appreciated. Brian&Claudia Cal 30 #48 -- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, pat pat <etesting2000@...> wrote: > > Sitca spruce. > > cal_reality_30 <cal_reality_30@...> wrote: A close inspection of our wooden spreaders using a straight-edge, has > revealed a slight degree of upturn in the shroud end 1/3. Is this a > huge concern? Also, if replacement is the option, what kind of wood > was originally used? Any info would be greatly appreciated. > > Brian and Claudia > Cal 30 > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Boating sailing Sailing boat Sailing Boating > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! >

Brian & Claudia, We were faced with the same issue of replacing our sitka spruce spreaders, and found like-kind replacement prohibitive. That is, until our joiner suggested purchasing an old upright piano, with perfect lumber in the soundboard. So, for $10, we got a set of spreaders you can't touch these days, and the joiner kept the remainder of the wood. Not a bad deal for us. girlsaylor --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "cal_reality_30" <cal_reality_30@...> wrote: > > Thank you, > I have been able to find a source for the lumber. Is it normal > practice to fashion one's own spreaders when they need replacing? > Also, does anyone know if that uplift at the outboard end 1/3 of the > spreader warrants replacing the spreaders? All input is greatly > appreciated. > Brian&Claudia > Cal 30 #48 > > -- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, pat pat <etesting2000@> wrote: > > > > Sitca spruce. > > > > cal_reality_30 <cal_reality_30@> wrote: A close inspection of > our wooden spreaders using a straight-edge, has > > revealed a slight degree of upturn in the shroud end 1/3. Is this > a > > huge concern? Also, if replacement is the option, what kind of > wood > > was originally used? Any info would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Brian and Claudia > > Cal 30 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Boating sailing Sailing boat Sailing Boating > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! > > >

You may also try here. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/wppages/sprucesparstock.php jeribelle2000 <gi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: Brian & Claudia, We were faced with the same issue of replacing our sitka spruce spreaders, and found like-kind replacement prohibitive. That is, until our joiner suggested purchasing an old upright piano, with perfect lumber in the soundboard. So, for $10, we got a set of spreaders you can't touch these days, and the joiner kept the remainder of the wood. Not a bad deal for us. girlsaylor --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "cal_reality_30" <cal_reality_30@...> wrote: > > Thank you, > I have been able to find a source for the lumber. Is it normal > practice to fashion one's own spreaders when they need replacing? > Also, does anyone know if that uplift at the outboard end 1/3 of the > spreader warrants replacing the spreaders? All input is greatly > appreciated. > Brian&Claudia > Cal 30 #48 > > -- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, pat pat <etesting2000@> wrote: > > > > Sitca spruce. > > > > cal_reality_30 <cal_reality_30@> wrote: A close inspection of > our wooden spreaders using a straight-edge, has > > revealed a slight degree of upturn in the shroud end 1/3. Is this > a > > huge concern? Also, if replacement is the option, what kind of > wood > > was originally used? Any info would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Brian and Claudia > > Cal 30 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Boating sailing Sailing boat Sailing Boating > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! > > > SPONSORED LINKS Boating sailing Sailing boat Sailing Boating --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

Hi Folks, Just wanted to get some opinions on wooden spreaders like the ones on my Cal 29. I am considering retrofitting with aluminum spreaders. What are my choices? Should I make some new ones from wood? What kind of wood is best? Any advice would be appreciated!! Regards, Glen

Hi Glenn, I replaced the original wooden spreaders on my Cal 46 in 1983 with straight grain spruce. They lasted until 1994. I replaced them with aluminum spreaders I got from a storm damaged ketch. No worries now. While the wood may look better, it is a PITA keeping varnished and worrying about rot. Mike Mc Elhaney got some aluminum spreaders for his Cal 40 recently. He will probably see your post and respond. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46 & Cal 25, Bayou Chico, FL --- On Mon, 9/15/08, glen thorpe <gl… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: glen thorpe <gl… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wooden spreaders To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 1:04 AM Hi Folks, Just wanted to get some opinions on wooden spreaders like the ones on my Cal 29. I am considering retrofitting with aluminum spreaders. What are my choices? Should I make some new ones from wood? What kind of wood is best? Any advice would be appreciated! ! Regards, Glen

Glen, Tom is right. When Beth and I bought Celtic Naut 9 months ago, her spreaders literally crumbled in our hands when we pulled the stick for transport. Another set of wooden ones would probably have lasted quite some time, but for peace of mind we opted to replace our spreaders with a beautiful new set of aluminum ones from a company called JSI. Here's their website http://www.newjsi.com/. We got them at a fair price and they were pretty quick about it. They were also conscientious enough to verify some measurements with me. Hope this helps Mike --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, glen thorpe <glenhove2@...> wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Just wanted to get some opinions on wooden spreaders like the ones on my Cal 29. I am considering retrofitting with aluminum spreaders. What are my choices? Should I make some new ones from wood? What kind of wood is best? Any advice would be appreciated!! > > Regards, > Glen >

Glen, If you are still inclined to make new wooden spreaders: I have heard that spruce is the best wood. I am including the link to a company called aircraft spruce. (They have tons of neat stuff.)http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/wppages/sprucesparstock.php. After cutting to shape, epoxy coat every inch of them and then paint. Another thing you could do to help protect them is to drill oversize holes for where the pins go, fill them with epoxy and then drill it to the proper size for the pins. This will effectively make an "epoxy bushing" that will prevent the wood from being worn by the pin and stop any water intrusion. Water intrusion and UV are what destroys wood. Mike --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, glen thorpe <glenhove2@...> wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Just wanted to get some opinions on wooden spreaders like the ones on my Cal 29. I am considering retrofitting with aluminum spreaders. What are my choices? Should I make some new ones from wood? What kind of wood is best? Any advice would be appreciated!! > > Regards, > Glen >

Mike wrote: > > Glen, > If you are still inclined to make new wooden spreaders: I have heard > that spruce is the best wood. I am including the link to a company > called aircraft spruce. (They have tons of neat > stuff.)http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/wppages/sprucesparstock.php. > <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/wppages/sprucesparstock.php.> > After cutting to shape, epoxy coat every inch of them and then paint. > Another thing you could do to help protect them is to drill oversize > holes for where the pins go, fill them with epoxy and then drill it to > the proper size for the pins. This will effectively make an "epoxy > bushing" that will prevent the wood from being worn by the pin and > stop any water intrusion. Water intrusion and UV are what destroys wood. > I'll endorse Mike's comments. My other boat, built in 1961, has a spruce mast & spreaders. Two years back, I checked out a previous repair by the first owner, sometime before 1968, and found that it was mostly turned to dust (appeared to be red oak inside of some fiberglass & polyester resin). Because of the complexity of the spreader shape, I elected to scarph on a new butt end, using spruce and epoxy. It has worked fine. For years, I had a constant battle keeping varnish on the upper (sunny) side. When I fixed the one spreader, I refinished both, and after the first coat of varnish, I put white paint on the upper surface. I read about this somewhere. You can't see the top side anyway, and the white paint is more durable and reflective than varnish. So if you like the original spreaders, consider wood replacements. Bear in mind that the durability of my spreaders reflects the climate in Michigan, where the boat is out and the mast is up only half of each year. The other half, she's out of the weather in the boat barn. Chris Campbell

Glen, My 29 has aluminum spreaders, and as far as I can tell, they are factory. My boat was originally owned by a racer from Detroit. He may have wanted the aluminum instead of wood because he was a serious racer. At any rate I love them. No maintenance. The 2 other 29s in my club have wooden spreaders, and both are younger than mine. You might call Steve Seals at Seals Spars in Alameda, Ca. and ask him. He's the Cal rigging god. Regards, David Dobbs Cal29 411 --- On Mon, 9/15/08, glen thorpe <gl… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: glen thorpe <gl… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wooden spreaders To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 12:04 AM Hi Folks, Just wanted to get some opinions on wooden spreaders like the ones on my Cal 29. I am considering retrofitting with aluminum spreaders. What are my choices? Should I make some new ones from wood? What kind of wood is best? Any advice would be appreciated! ! Regards, Glen

David, I was wondering how you like your new rudder ? Also, I saw someone was dismasted. What that "Blues Doctor" and is that a Cal29? Thanks ! Steve david dobbs <tm… [at] yahoo.co m> To Sent by: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Cal_Boats@yahoogr cc oups.com Subject Re: [Cal_Boats] wooden 09/15/2008 10:04 spreaders(Glen) PM Please respond to Cal_Boats@yahoogr oups.com Glen, My 29 has aluminum spreaders, and as far as I can tell, they are factory. My boat was originally owned by a racer from Detroit. He may have wanted the aluminum instead of wood because he was a serious racer. At any rate I love them. No maintenance. The 2 other 29s in my club have wooden spreaders, and both are younger than mine. You might call Steve Seals at Seals Spars in Alameda, Ca. and ask him. He's the Cal rigging god. Regards, David Dobbs Cal29 411 --- On Mon, 9/15/08, glen thorpe <gl… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: glen thorpe <gl… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] wooden spreaders To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 12:04 AM Hi Folks, Just wanted to get some opinions on wooden spreaders like the ones on my Cal 29. I am considering retrofitting with aluminum spreaders. What are my choices? Should I make some new ones from wood? What kind of wood is best? Any advice would be appreciated! ! Regards, Glen - For more information about UL, its Marks, and its services for EMC, quality registrations and product certifications for global markets, please access our web sites at http://www.ul.com and http://www.ulc.ca or contact your local sales representative. -- ********* Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ********** This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. UL and its affiliates do not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments. *****************************************************************

Steve, That is indeed Blues Doctor, got dismasted in a squall, the mast broke about 18 inches below the spreaders. It is a Cal29. You have to ask Steve Pittman for full details. I do like my new rudder. It seems very responsive under sail and is neutral under power. --- On Tue, 9/16/08, st… [at] us.ul.com <st… [at] us.ul.com> wrote: > From: st… [at] us.ul.com <st… [at] us.ul.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] wooden spreaders(David) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 6:44 AM > David, > > I was wondering how you like your new rudder ? > > Also, I saw someone was dismasted. What that "Blues > Doctor" and is that a > Cal29? > > Thanks ! > Steve > > > > > > > > david dobbs > > <tm… [at] yahoo.co > > m> > To > Sent by: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Cal_Boats@yahoogr > cc > oups.com > > > Subject > Re: [Cal_Boats] > wooden > 09/15/2008 10:04 spreaders(Glen) > > PM > > > > > > Please respond to > > Cal_Boats@yahoogr > > oups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glen, > > > > > > My 29 has aluminum spreaders, and as far as I can tell, > they are factory. My boat > was originally owned by a racer from Detroit. He may have > wanted the aluminum > instead of wood because he was a serious racer. At any > rate I love them. No > maintenance. The 2 other 29s in my club have wooden > spreaders, and both are > younger than mine. You might call Steve Seals at Seals > Spars in Alameda, Ca. and > ask him. He's the Cal rigging god. > > > > Regards, > > David Dobbs > > Cal29 411 > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, glen thorpe > <gl… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > From: glen thorpe <gl… [at] yahoo.com> > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] wooden spreaders > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 12:04 AM > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > Just wanted to get some opinions on wooden spreaders like > the ones on my Cal 29. I > am considering retrofitting with aluminum spreaders. What > are my choices? Should I > make some new ones from wood? What kind of wood is best? > Any advice would be > appreciated! ! > > > > Regards, > > Glen > > > > > > > > > > > > - For more information about UL, its Marks, and its > services for > EMC, quality registrations and product certifications for > global > markets, please access our web sites at http://www.ul.com > and > http://www.ulc.ca or contact your local sales > representative. -- > > ********* Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer > ********** > This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential > information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may > not > disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon > this > message or attachment in any way. If you received this > e-mail > message in error, please return by forwarding the message > and > its attachments to the sender. > > UL and its affiliates do not accept liability for any > errors, > omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this > message > or any attachments. > *****************************************************************

Why would Jensen, in the 1970's decide to use wooden spreaders? The rest of the rig is AL. Unfortunately Roger Jones is no longer with us, he was the master rigger at Jensen, who could probably have answered that, but we remain unknown.Dobbs, Cal 29

Actually Steve Seal (Seals Spares in Alameda) was the rigger at Jensen. He is still with us. Mike RobinsonS/V Primrose(916) 705-3200 our blog:http://www.sailblogs.com/member/primrose/ To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 02:09:09 +0000 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wooden Spreaders Why would Jensen, in the 1970's decide to use wooden spreaders? The rest of the rig is AL. Unfortunately Roger Jones is no longer with us, he was the master rigger at Jensen, who could probably have answered that, but we remain unknown.Dobbs, Cal 29

Steve Seals is still around around in SF bay area – Seals Spars, and surely has the answer as I’m fairly certain he was involved… and still is in Cal spars. Roger was the production - fabrication Hinge-in-ear from my recollection… amongst other things. dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 7:09 PM To: CalList Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wooden Spreaders Why would Jensen, in the 1970's decide to use wooden spreaders? The rest of the rig is AL. Unfortunately Roger Jones is no longer with us, he was the master rigger at Jensen, who could probably have answered that, but we remain unknown. Dobbs, Cal 29

I unstepped my mast last fall (Cal 2-27) and I removed the spreaders and brought them home for refinishing. I carefully noted starboard and port spreaders - and I have removed the metal reinforcements on the mast ends. This is where I noted the hand-written port and starboard, and of course, it's opposite of how they were when I took them off. Looking carefully at each spreader, I note that they are not symmetrical - one edge is straighter than the other, the other edge tapers toward the spreader end. It's subtle (as in I hadn't noticed in 18 years) but against a square, it's obvious (taper is 3/8 to 1/2" over the outer half). I expect upon casting the question to the group that I'll get one of three answers: A) put them back as I found them; B) put them back the way that was hand-written under the metal; or C) Wood? Replace them with aluminum. (If it ever warms up outside, I'll be refinishing them - C is too pricey this year) Vote away, Cal group. Harold Beer Cal 2-27 Hull #189 Arcturus homeport Muskegon, MI

I personally do not understand what you are saying about the spreaders. " the other edge tapers toward the spreader end". If you are talking about something aerodynamic, install them so they are more airplane like. On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:17 AM, ha… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > I unstepped my mast last fall (Cal 2-27) and I removed the spreaders and > brought them home for refinishing. > > I carefully noted starboard and port spreaders - and I have removed the > metal reinforcements on the mast ends. This is where I noted the > hand-written port and starboard, and of course, it's opposite of how they > were when I took them off. > > > Looking carefully at each spreader, I note that they are not symmetrical - > one edge is straighter than the other, the other edge tapers toward the > spreader end. It's subtle (as in I hadn't noticed in 18 years) but against > a square, it's obvious (taper is 3/8 to 1/2" over the outer half). > > > I expect upon casting the question to the group that I'll get one of three > answers: A) put them back as I found them; B) put them back the way that > was hand-written under the metal; or C) Wood? Replace them with aluminum. > > > (If it ever warms up outside, I'll be refinishing them - C is too pricey > this year) > > > Vote away, Cal group. > > > Harold Beer > > Cal 2-27 > > Hull #189 Arcturus homeport Muskegon, MI > > > > >

On my other boat from 1961, the mast AND spreaders are spruce. The spreaders actually have a foil shape: little airplane wings, although the boat has never gone fast enough to lift out of the water yet. As I recall the curved edge is aft on those. Nothing wrong with wooden spreaders as long as they are maintained and inspected. One of mine had a repair that was in place when we got the boat in 1968. A few years back it was starting to look uncertain so I dug in and found that it was a rather interesting kind of repair, improvised and no longer effective. I made a new inboard end and joined it with a deep mortise and tenon and the miracle goo, epoxy. Spreaders operate mostly in compression, which is what you need to remember when appraising them. After that repair I took advice from this group and painted the tops white. You can't see them from below anyway, and the tops get all the UV, and white paint resists UV much better than varnish. The varnish on the bottom is what you see. It works fine. Chris Campbell

Harold. I replaced the spreaders on Nemesis probably 6 years ago. I was able to find some Sitka spruce at a local yard, and shaped it first with a table saw, and finally with a belt sander. When I pulled them to refinish this spring they were in good shape, except for some rot under one of the plates at the mast end. This was after being in place every day for those six years. If you enjoy wood, I’d definitely refinish and stay with the original look. As to the shape, the leading edge of the spreader is has a fatter curve than the trailing edge, which is within 1/4” of being sharp. Think of the shape of an airplane wing. It returns to full thickness at the tip so as to accommodate the stainless strip which carries the upper shroud. The plates which attach the spreaders to the mast have drop (clevis) pins which are secured by cotter pins. The cotter pins should be on the bottom so that they keep the drop pins in place, but carry no load. As to finish, I love the look of my spreaders, so sanded them thoroughly and applied 7 or 8 coats of Epifanes to the bottoms. To protect against UV I applied white paint to the tops. With 20-20 hindsight, I realize that I should have done the leading edges in white, as well, since they get the brunt of the wind and salt air. When you re-iinstall them, don’t forget to tip the spreaders up slightly to bisect the angle between them and the upper shroud. The last couple of times I have done mine I have used nylon wire ties to hod them in place on the shroud. Not as style as mousing with stainless, but a bunch simpler. Keep Smiling, Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Mar 20, 2018, at 9:17 AM, ha… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > I unstepped my mast last fall (Cal 2-27) and I removed the spreaders and brought them home for refinishing. > > I carefully noted starboard and port spreaders - and I have removed the metal reinforcements on the mast ends. This is where I noted the hand-written port and starboard, and of course, it's opposite of how they were when I took them off. > > > > Looking carefully at each spreader, I note that they are not symmetrical - one edge is straighter than the other, the other edge tapers toward the spreader end. It's subtle (as in I hadn't noticed in 18 years) but against a square, it's obvious (taper is 3/8 to 1/2" over the outer half). > > > > I expect upon casting the question to the group that I'll get one of three answers: A) put them back as I found them; B) put them back the way that was hand-written under the metal; or C) Wood? Replace them with aluminum. > > > > (If it ever warms up outside, I'll be refinishing them - C is too pricey this year) > > > > Vote away, Cal group. > > > > Harold Beer > > Cal 2-27 > > Hull #189 Arcturus homeport Muskegon, MI > > > > > > >

Side note, Harold. If tips are not painted white, do that. Take Care Charlie Annapolis (getting ready to snow again) From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 12:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wooden spreaders I unstepped my mast last fall (Cal 2-27) and I removed the spreaders and brought them home for refinishing. I carefully noted starboard and port spreaders - and I have removed the metal reinforcements on the mast ends. This is where I noted the hand-written port and starboard, and of course, it's opposite of how they were when I took them off. Looking carefully at each spreader, I note that they are not symmetrical - one edge is straighter than the other, the other edge tapers toward the spreader end. It's subtle (as in I hadn't noticed in 18 years) but against a square, it's obvious (taper is 3/8 to 1/2" over the outer half). I expect upon casting the question to the group that I'll get one of three answers: A) put them back as I found them; B) put them back the way that was hand-written under the metal; or C) Wood? Replace them with aluminum. (If it ever warms up outside, I'll be refinishing them - C is too pricey this year) Vote away, Cal group. Harold Beer Cal 2-27 Hull #189 Arcturus homeport Muskegon, MI

Mine were in fine shape and probably 50 years old when I was dismasted so my life test can't go on... The new ones are aluminum and I am sure will outlast me. Allen On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:48 AM, ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > On my other boat from 1961, the mast AND spreaders are spruce. The > spreaders actually have a foil shape: little airplane wings, although > the boat has never gone fast enough to lift out of the water yet. As I > recall the curved edge is aft on those. > > Nothing wrong with wooden spreaders as long as they are maintained and > inspected. One of mine had a repair that was in place when we got the > boat in 1968. A few years back it was starting to look uncertain so I > dug in and found that it was a rather interesting kind of repair, > improvised and no longer effective. I made a new inboard end and joined > it with a deep mortise and tenon and the miracle goo, epoxy. Spreaders > operate mostly in compression, which is what you need to remember when > appraising them. > > After that repair I took advice from this group and painted the tops > white. You can't see them from below anyway, and the tops get all the > UV, and white paint resists UV much better than varnish. The varnish on > the bottom is what you see. It works fine. > > Chris Campbell > > >

The wooden (clear spruce) spreaders on my CAL34 aren’t symmetrical either. I’ll look at them tomorrow and check the taper and send you a picture. > On Mar 20, 2018, at 12:17 PM, ha… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > I unstepped my mast last fall (Cal 2-27) and I removed the spreaders and brought them home for refinishing. > > I carefully noted starboard and port spreaders - and I have removed the metal reinforcements on the mast ends. This is where I noted the hand-written port and starboard, and of course, it's opposite of how they were when I took them off. > > > > Looking carefully at each spreader, I note that they are not symmetrical - one edge is straighter than the other, the other edge tapers toward the spreader end. It's subtle (as in I hadn't noticed in 18 years) but against a square, it's obvious (taper is 3/8 to 1/2" over the outer half). > > > > I expect upon casting the question to the group that I'll get one of three answers: A) put them back as I found them; B) put them back the way that was hand-written under the metal; or C) Wood? Replace them with aluminum. > > > > (If it ever warms up outside, I'll be refinishing them - C is too pricey this year) > > > > Vote away, Cal group. > > > > Harold Beer > > Cal 2-27 > > Hull #189 Arcturus homeport Muskegon, MI > > > > > >

On my cal 29, the angle of the holes where the spreaders attached to the mast determined how the spreaders went in. Flip them around and you would have them pointing down. > On Mar 20, 2018, at 12:48 PM, ccampbell cc… [at] lsnm.org [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > On my other boat from 1961, the mast AND spreaders are spruce. The > spreaders actually have a foil shape: little airplane wings, although > the boat has never gone fast enough to lift out of the water yet. As I > recall the curved edge is aft on those. > > Nothing wrong with wooden spreaders as long as they are maintained and > inspected. One of mine had a repair that was in place when we got the > boat in 1968. A few years back it was starting to look uncertain so I > dug in and found that it was a rather interesting kind of repair, > improvised and no longer effective. I made a new inboard end and joined > it with a deep mortise and tenon and the miracle goo, epoxy. Spreaders > operate mostly in compression, which is what you need to remember when > appraising them. > > After that repair I took advice from this group and painted the tops > white. You can't see them from below anyway, and the tops get all the > UV, and white paint resists UV much better than varnish. The varnish on > the bottom is what you see. It works fine. > > Chris Campbell > >

Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. John B Cal 227 650 On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I think 34:1. The Barient 21's are 30:1. The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than expected gear ratios by today's standards. If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as the winch number. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger > winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. > I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added > the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is > the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. > As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches > are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make > them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. > > John B > Cal 227 650 > > On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm > considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. > > My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm > thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. > > And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against > self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined > to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks > re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. > > Any recommendations? > > -Adam > 1975 2-27 #93 > > > >

I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal 31. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; John b <je… [at] gmail.com> Cc: Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I think 34:1. The Barient 21's are 30:1. The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than expected gear ratios by today's standards. If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as the winch number. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com <mailto:je… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. John B Cal 227 650 On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:as… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

Thanks, all. Those Barient specs are confusing -- fortunately they aren't a likely option, unless I go for used winches, in which case that's great to know, Allen, thanks. For the current Lewmar, Harken, and Andersen, it does seem like the model # = power ratio. Makes comparison shopping much easier. I think I'll go 30 for primaries. 8 seems a little small to me for spin sheets, no? The guides say that works, though (based on 777 ft2 spin sail area). My boat came with those blue rubber "self tailers". To say they add self-tailing is an outright lie, but they do make great cleats for the right sized line (which doesn't include my 1/4" spin sheets). https://www.defender.com/pdf/Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdfhttps://www.defender.com/pdf/winches_selection_guide.pdf https://www.defender.com/pdf/harkenwinchguide.pdf On Friday, March 23, 2018, 9:40:24 AM PDT, 'Harleigh Ewell' ha… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal 31. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; John b <je… [at] gmail.com> Cc: Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I think 34:1. The Barient 21's are 30:1. The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than expected gear ratios by today's standards. If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as the winch number. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. John B Cal 227 650 On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

I have Andersen 46 non self tailing and after they gave me the racing upgrade they are wonderful. I HATE self tailing winches for do many reasons. Rest of my winches are Barient from eBay. On Mar 23, 2018 11:41 AM, "Adam" <as… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > Thanks, all. Those Barient specs are confusing -- fortunately they aren't > a likely option, unless I go for used winches, in which case that's great > to know, Allen, thanks. > For the current Lewmar, Harken, and Andersen, it does seem like the model > # = power ratio. Makes comparison shopping much easier. I think I'll go > 30 for primaries. > 8 seems a little small to me for spin sheets, no? The guides say that > works, though (based on 777 ft2 spin sail area). > > My boat came with those blue rubber "self tailers". To say they add > self-tailing is an outright lie, but they do make great cleats for the > right sized line (which doesn't include my 1/4" spin sheets). > > https://www.defender.com/pdf/Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdf > https://www.defender.com/pdf/winches_selection_guide.pdf > https://www.defender.com/pdf/harkenwinchguide.pdf > > > > On Friday, March 23, 2018, 9:40:24 AM PDT, 'Harleigh Ewell' > ha… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > > I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal > 31. > > Harleigh > > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; John b <je… [at] gmail.com> > *Cc:* Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes > > > > > > Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The > 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient > 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy > a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but > they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I > think 34:1. > > > > The Barient 21's are 30:1. > > > > The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads > with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than > expected gear ratios by today's standards. > > > > If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as > the winch number. > > > > Allen > > > > On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger > winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. > I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added > the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is > the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. > As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches > are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make > them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. > > > > John B > > Cal 227 650 > > > > On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm > considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. > > > > My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm > thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. > > > > And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against > self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined > to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks > re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. > > > > Any recommendations? > > > > -Adam > > 1975 2-27 #93 > > > > > > >

I wouldn’t use the horn style self-tailers on spin sheets. From a bit of experience, it is too easy to foul the line on the winch when letting out a lot of line fast (like for dousing). My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 2:42 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; 'Allen Edwards' <al… [at] gmail.com>; 'John b' <je… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: RE: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Thanks, all. Those Barient specs are confusing -- fortunately they aren't a likely option, unless I go for used winches, in which case that's great to know, Allen, thanks. For the current Lewmar, Harken, and Andersen, it does seem like the model # = power ratio. Makes comparison shopping much easier. I think I'll go 30 for primaries.. 8 seems a little small to me for spin sheets, no? The guides say that works, though (based on 777 ft2 spin sail area). My boat came with those blue rubber "self tailers". To say they add self-tailing is an outright lie, but they do make great cleats for the right sized line (which doesn't include my 1/4" spin sheets). https://www.defender.com/pdf/Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdf https://www.defender.com/pdf/winches_selection_guide.pdf https://www.defender.com/pdf/harkenwinchguide.pdf On Friday, March 23, 2018, 9:40:24 AM PDT, 'Harleigh Ewell' ha… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ha… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal 31. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ; John b <je… [at] gmail.com <mailto:je… [at] gmail.com> > Cc: Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:as… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I think 34:1. The Barient 21's are 30:1. The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than expected gear ratios by today's standards. If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as the winch number. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com <mailto:je… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. John B Cal 227 650 On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:as… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

Thanks, Charlie. I am starting to re-think self-tailers for the spin sheets for that reason. I think maybe I'll just get good 30s for the jib and demote my Barients to secondary, if they aren't too wide for the coaming. Is there another type of self-tailing winch besides "horn style", out of curiosity? On Friday, March 23, 2018, 1:37:08 PM PDT, 'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I wouldn’t use the horn style self-tailers on spin sheets. From a bit of experience, it is too easy to foul the line on the winch when letting out a lot of line fast (like for dousing). My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 2:42 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; 'Allen Edwards' <al… [at] gmail.com>; 'John b' <je… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: RE: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Thanks, all. Those Barient specs are confusing -- fortunately they aren't a likely option, unless I go for used winches, in which case that's great to know, Allen, thanks. For the current Lewmar, Harken, and Andersen, it does seem like the model # = power ratio. Makes comparison shopping much easier. I think I'll go 30 for primaries.. 8 seems a little small to me for spin sheets, no? The guides say that works, though (based on 777 ft2 spin sail area). My boat came with those blue rubber "self tailers". To say they add self-tailing is an outright lie, but they do make great cleats for the right sized line (which doesn't include my 1/4" spin sheets). https://www.defender.com/pdf/Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdf https://www.defender.com/pdf/winches_selection_guide.pdf https://www.defender..com/pdf/harkenwinchguide.pdf On Friday, March 23, 2018, 9:40:24 AM PDT, 'Harleigh Ewell' ha… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com> wrote: I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal 31. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; John b <je… [at] gmail.com> Cc: Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I think 34:1. The Barient 21's are 30:1. The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than expected gear ratios by today's standards. If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as the winch number. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. John B Cal 227 650 On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

I really like the ability to just lift the sheet straight up when cutting for a tack. On Papoose, I put a cam cleat on the inside of the coaming. It does take two hands to take in the sheet but is pretty easy. Should you decide to go that way, use the Harken cam cleats. They have a patented design that is much better. I put a small horn cleat that the sheet can get one turn around just so nobody trips on the line and releases the cam. When I was dismasted I raced on a J-105 for the season. I have also sailed on friends boats that had self tailing winches. HATE them. That said, the Anderson winches are absolutely wonderful. We use them with two turns and they hold great. The Barient need 4 turns. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > Thanks, Charlie. I am starting to re-think self-tailers for the spin > sheets for that reason. I think maybe I'll just get good 30s for the jib > and demote my Barients to secondary, if they aren't too wide for the > coaming. > Is there another type of self-tailing winch besides "horn style", out of > curiosity? > > > > On Friday, March 23, 2018, 1:37:08 PM PDT, 'Charlie Husar' > hu… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > > I wouldn’t use the horn style self-tailers on spin sheets. From a bit of > experience, it is too easy to foul the line on the winch when letting out a > lot of line fast (like for dousing). > > > > My Two Cents > > Charlie > > Annapolis > > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *Sent:* Friday, March 23, 2018 2:42 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; 'Allen Edwards' < > al… [at] gmail.com>; 'John b' <je… [at] gmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: RE: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes > > > > Thanks, all. Those Barient specs are confusing -- fortunately they aren't > a likely option, unless I go for used winches, in which case that's great > to know, Allen, thanks. > > For the current Lewmar, Harken, and Andersen, it does seem like the model > # = power ratio. Makes comparison shopping much easier. I think I'll go > 30 for primaries.. > > 8 seems a little small to me for spin sheets, no? The guides say that > works, though (based on 777 ft2 spin sail area). > > > > My boat came with those blue rubber "self tailers".. To say they add > self-tailing is an outright lie, but they do make great cleats for the > right sized line (which doesn't include my 1/4" spin sheets). > > > > https://www.defender.com/pdf/Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdf > > https://www.defender.com/pdf/winches_selection_guide.pdf > https://www.defender..com/pdf/harkenwinchguide.pdf > <https://www.defender.com/pdf/harkenwinchguide.pdf> > > > > On Friday, March 23, 2018, 9:40:24 AM PDT, 'Harleigh Ewell' > ha… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com > <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal > 31. > > Harleigh > > > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; John b <je… [at] gmail.com> > *Cc:* Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes > > > > > > Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The > 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient > 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy > a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but > they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I > think 34:1. > > > > The Barient 21's are 30:1. > > > > The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads > with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than > expected gear ratios by today's standards. > > > > If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as > the winch number. > > > > Allen > > > > On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com > <je… [at] gmail..com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger > winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. > I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added > the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is > the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. > As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches > are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make > them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. > > > > John B > > Cal 227 650 > > > > On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm > considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. > > > > My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm > thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. > > > > And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against > self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined > to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks > re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. > > > > Any recommendations? > > > > -Adam > > 1975 2-27 #93 > > > > > > > > > >

There's that funny plastic thingy that looks like a plastic tire with a grove in it, the slips over the top rim of a winch. I've been on boats that had them and found them to be perfectly effective as a self-tailer. I would imagine a 'real' self tailing winch to be very pricey in comparison. Also, using a 10" handle give a lot more leaverage than the shorter version. One more thing. I bought a Lewmar red floating winch handle for my "new-to me" Harkin #7 winches off Craigslist. A few months later the thumb trigger broke in half, and...surprise...that cheep little part is not replaceable separately. And.. SURPRISE!...since I now wasn't afraid of losing the handle overboard, I began using the winch without the locking mechanism. Not only is it 100% easier to get on and off the winch, the handle is still plenty secure without that annoying thumb trigger gizmo that takes two hands to operate and makes you fumble your tacks. Jerry of Shpritz On Friday, March 23, 2018, 2:31:28 PM PDT, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I really like the ability to just lift the sheet straight up when cutting for a tack. On Papoose, I put a cam cleat on the inside of the coaming. It does take two hands to take in the sheet but is pretty easy. Should you decide to go that way, use the Harken cam cleats. They have a patented design that is much better. I put a small horn cleat that the sheet can get one turn around just so nobody trips on the line and releases the cam. When I was dismasted I raced on a J-105 for the season. I have also sailed on friends boats that had self tailing winches. HATE them. That said, the Anderson winches are absolutely wonderful. We use them with two turns and they hold great. The Barient need 4 turns. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Thanks, Charlie. I am starting to re-think self-tailers for the spin sheets for that reason. I think maybe I'll just get good 30s for the jib and demote my Barients to secondary, if they aren't too wide for the coaming. Is there another type of self-tailing winch besides "horn style", out of curiosity? On Friday, March 23, 2018, 1:37:08 PM PDT, 'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I wouldn’t use the horn style self-tailers on spin sheets. From a bit of experience, it is too easy to foul the line on the winch when letting out a lot of line fast (like for dousing). My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Cal_Boats@yahoogroups. com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 2:42 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; 'Allen Edwards' <al… [at] gmail.com>; 'John b' <je… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: RE: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Thanks, all. Those Barient specs are confusing -- fortunately they aren't a likely option, unless I go for used winches, in which case that's great to know, Allen, thanks. For the current Lewmar, Harken, and Andersen, it does seem like the model # = power ratio. Makes comparison shopping much easier. I think I'll go 30 for primaries.. 8 seems a little small to me for spin sheets, no? The guides say that works, though (based on 777 ft2 spin sail area). My boat came with those blue rubber "self tailers".. To say they add self-tailing is an outright lie, but they do make great cleats for the right sized line (which doesn't include my 1/4" spin sheets). https://www.defender.com/pdf/ Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdf https://www.defender.com/pdf/ winches_selection_guide.pdf https://www.defender..com/pdf/ harkenwinchguide.pdf On Friday, March 23, 2018, 9:40:24 AM PDT, 'Harleigh Ewell' ha… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com> wrote: I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal 31. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; John b <je… [at] gmail.com> Cc: Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I think 34:1. The Barient 21's are 30:1. The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than expected gear ratios by today's standards. If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as the winch number. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. John B Cal 227 650 On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

I couldn't imagine single handling my Cal31 without Self Tailers on the jib sheets. ChrisSanta Cruz Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:17 PM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]<Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: There's that funny plastic thingy that looks like a plastic tire with a grove in it, the slips over the top rim of a winch. I've been on boats that had them and found them to be perfectly effective as a self-tailer. I would imagine a 'real' self tailing winch to be very pricey in comparison. Also, using a 10" handle give a lot more leaverage than the shorter version. One more thing. I bought a Lewmar red floating winch handle for my "new-to me" Harkin #7 winches off Craigslist. A few months later the thumb trigger broke in half, and...surprise...that cheep little part is not replaceable separately. And.. SURPRISE!...since I now wasn't afraid of losing the handle overboard, I began using the winch without the locking mechanism. Not only is it 100% easier to get on and off the winch, the handle is still plenty secure without that annoying thumb trigger gizmo that takes two hands to operate and makes you fumble your tacks. Jerry of Shpritz On Friday, March 23, 2018, 2:31:28 PM PDT, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I really like the ability to just lift the sheet straight up when cutting for a tack. On Papoose, I put a cam cleat on the inside of the coaming. It does take two hands to take in the sheet but is pretty easy. Should you decide to go that way, use the Harken cam cleats. They have a patented design that is much better. I put a small horn cleat that the sheet can get one turn around just so nobody trips on the line and releases the cam. When I was dismasted I raced on a J-105 for the season.. I have also sailed on friends boats that had self tailing winches. HATE them. That said, the Anderson winches are absolutely wonderful. We use them with two turns and they hold great. The Barient need 4 turns. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Adam as… [at] yahoo..com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Thanks, Charlie. I am starting to re-think self-tailers for the spin sheets for that reason. I think maybe I'll just get good 30s for the jib and demote my Barients to secondary, if they aren't too wide for the coaming. Is there another type of self-tailing winch besides "horn style", out of curiosity? On Friday, March 23, 2018, 1:37:08 PM PDT, 'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I wouldn’t use the horn style self-tailers on spin sheets. From a bit of experience, it is too easy to foul the line on the winch when letting out a lot of line fast (like for dousing). My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Cal_Boats@yahoogroups. com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 2:42 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; 'Allen Edwards' <al… [at] gmail.com>; 'John b' <je… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: RE: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Thanks, all. Those Barient specs are confusing -- fortunately they aren't a likely option, unless I go for used winches, in which case that's great to know, Allen, thanks. For the current Lewmar, Harken, and Andersen, it does seem like the model # = power ratio. Makes comparison shopping much easier. I think I'll go 30 for primaries.. 8 seems a little small to me for spin sheets, no? The guides say that works, though (based on 777 ft2 spin sail area). My boat came with those blue rubber "self tailers"... To say they add self-tailing is an outright lie, but they do make great cleats for the right sized line (which doesn't include my 1/4" spin sheets). https://www.defender.com/pdf/ Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdf https://www.defender.com/pdf/ winches_selection_guide.pdf https://www.defender..com/pdf/ harkenwinchguide.pdf On Friday, March 23, 2018, 9:40:24 AM PDT, 'Harleigh Ewell' ha… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com> wrote: I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal 31. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com; John b <je… [at] gmail.com> Cc: Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I think 34:1. The Barient 21's are 30:1. The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than expected gear ratios by today's standards. If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as the winch number. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. John B Cal 227 650 On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

Chris, are you talking the rubber things or the horn things?’ Take Care Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 4:12 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes I couldn't imagine single handling my Cal31 without Self Tailers on the jib sheets. Chris Santa Cruz Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:17 PM, Gerald Sobel so… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:so… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: There's that funny plastic thingy that looks like a plastic tire with a grove in it, the slips over the top rim of a winch. I've been on boats that had them and found them to be perfectly effective as a self-tailer. I would imagine a 'real' self tailing winch to be very pricey in comparison. Also, using a 10" handle give a lot more leaverage than the shorter version. One more thing. I bought a Lewmar red floating winch handle for my "new-to me" Harkin #7 winches off Craigslist. A few months later the thumb trigger broke in half, and...surprise...that cheep little part is not replaceable separately. And.. SURPRISE!...since I now wasn't afraid of losing the handle overboard, I began using the winch without the locking mechanism. Not only is it 100% easier to get on and off the winch, the handle is still plenty secure without that annoying thumb trigger gizmo that takes two hands to operate and makes you fumble your tacks. Jerry of Shpritz On Friday, March 23, 2018, 2:31:28 PM PDT, Allen Edwards al… [at] gmail.com <mailto:al… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I really like the ability to just lift the sheet straight up when cutting for a tack. On Papoose, I put a cam cleat on the inside of the coaming. It does take two hands to take in the sheet but is pretty easy. Should you decide to go that way, use the Harken cam cleats. They have a patented design that is much better. I put a small horn cleat that the sheet can get one turn around just so nobody trips on the line and releases the cam. When I was dismasted I raced on a J-105 for the season... I have also sailed on friends boats that had self tailing winches. HATE them. That said, the Anderson winches are absolutely wonderful. We use them with two turns and they hold great. The Barient need 4 turns. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Adam as… [at] yahoo..com <mailto:as… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Thanks, Charlie. I am starting to re-think self-tailers for the spin sheets for that reason. I think maybe I'll just get good 30s for the jib and demote my Barients to secondary, if they aren't too wide for the coaming. Is there another type of self-tailing winch besides "horn style", out of curiosity? On Friday, March 23, 2018, 1:37:08 PM PDT, 'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com <mailto:hu… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I wouldn’t use the horn style self-tailers on spin sheets. From a bit of experience, it is too easy to foul the line on the winch when letting out a lot of line fast (like for dousing). My Two Cents Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Cal_Boats@yahoogroups. com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 2:42 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ; 'Allen Edwards' <al… [at] gmail.com <mailto:al… [at] gmail.com> >; 'John b' <je… [at] gmail.com <mailto:je… [at] gmail.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Thanks, all. Those Barient specs are confusing -- fortunately they aren't a likely option, unless I go for used winches, in which case that's great to know, Allen, thanks. For the current Lewmar, Harken, and Andersen, it does seem like the model # = power ratio. Makes comparison shopping much easier. I think I'll go 30 for primaries.. 8 seems a little small to me for spin sheets, no? The guides say that works, though (based on 777 ft2 spin sail area). My boat came with those blue rubber "self tailers".... To say they add self-tailing is an outright lie, but they do make great cleats for the right sized line (which doesn't include my 1/4" spin sheets). https://www.defender.com/pdf/ Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdf <https://www.defender.com/pdf/Lewmar-manual-ST-winches.pdf> https://www.defender.com/pdf/ winches_selection_guide.pdf <https://www.defender.com/pdf/winches_selection_guide.pdf> https://www.defender..com/pdf/ harkenwinchguide.pdf <https://www.defender.com/pdf/harkenwinchguide.pdf> On Friday, March 23, 2018, 9:40:24 AM PDT, 'Harleigh Ewell' ha… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ha… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I have been very satisfied with the Andersen 40 ST’s that I put on my Cal 31. Harleigh From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups..com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 12:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups...com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ; John b <je… [at] gmail.com <mailto:je… [at] gmail.com> > Cc: Adam <as… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:as… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 2-27 winch sizes Be careful on selecting Barient winches. Look at the gear ratios. The 16's are a 1:1 winch so they will be more difficult to work than a Barient 10 due to the larger drum diameter. They are basically useless, don't buy a Barient 16. The Barient 22 is what I use for spinnakers on my L-36 but they are 40:1 winches and my other set of 22's have lower gears in them, I think 34:1. The Barient 21's are 30:1. The deal with Barients is that some of them are designed for huge loads with very strong winch grinders so they have large drums and lower than expected gear ratios by today's standards. If you are looking at other brands, the power ration is often the same as the winch number. Allen On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 7:56 AM, John b je… [at] gmail.com <mailto:je… [at] gmail..com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Many years ago I added st winches to my 227 I also opted for the larger winches I bought barients 21-32s I have never regretted the larger winches. I have kept the original winches for my spinnaker for a few years I added the rubber self tailing things with mixed results. One thing to watch is the width of the cockpit coaming where the winches are mounted is tapered. As a result the larger winches will not fit where the the existing winches are installed, you will have to mount your new winches forward to make them fit. This location is great for adjusting the Genoa while underway. John B Cal 227 650 On Mar 23, 2018 1:13 AM, "Adam as… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:as… [at] yahoo.com> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Mine came with Barient 21 two-speed primaries and no secondaries. I'm considering upgrading the primaries to self-tailing and adding secondaries. My Barients seem a little underpowered when it's really honking, so I'm thinking 30s are a justifiable, albeit pricier, upgrade over 16s or 20s. And I'm thinking 16s for spin sheets. I've heard arguments against self-tailers for spin sheets, but I'm usually singlehanding so I'm inclined to opt for them. But ready to be talked out of it.. I'd save a few bucks re-purposing the Barients as secondaries, at least. Any recommendations? -Adam 1975 2-27 #93

I have finished refurbishing my spreaders - the spreaders have the same shape +/- 1/4" and the slot for the upper shroud is in a slightly different location +/- 1/8" depending on which spreader is used on which side. I'm unconcerned after all the fuss. One thing I do know, as I used a laser tiling square, is if you locate the square at the center of the mast step, with one leg hitting the center of the stem fitting, the other leg is exactly on the chainplate. (A laser tiling square shines two lasers at precisely a right angle) I used four coats of gloss polyurethane on the bottom side. My purist side would have preferred to build up nine coats of varnish, but maintaining the varnish cuts into the already too short sailing season in Michigan. The top side has four coats of gloss white exterior latex. The metal plates and spreader ends were cleaned and polished and the wiring replaced. The mast wiring connects to the spreader wiring with two pole weatherpack connectors. At the deck inside the mast, I'm using four pole versions. With a forty-plus year old boat and no maintenance log until I became owner, I replaced all of the wiring inside the mast. The standing rigging was carefully examined with dye penetrant and developer and no cracks were noted. The clevis pins and cotter pins have been replaced. And here it is mid-April, and they're calling for more snow... and I'm running out of boat projects that don't require dry and warmish. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Cal_Boats/photos/photostream/lightbox/1895295068?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/1895295068 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Cal_Boats/photos/photostream/lightbox/1895295068?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/1895295068

Surely, Sir, there are more things to screw around with on the boat till the weather improves. I can make a list of possible work. :- ] Take Care Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 7:05 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Wooden spreaders I have finished refurbishing my spreaders - the spreaders have the same shape +/- 1/4" and the slot for the upper shroud is in a slightly different location +/- 1/8" depending on which spreader is used on which side. I'm unconcerned after all the fuss. One thing I do know, as I used a laser tiling square, is if you locate the square at the center of the mast step, with one leg hitting the center of the stem fitting, the other leg is exactly on the chainplate. (A laser tiling square shines two lasers at precisely a right angle) I used four coats of gloss polyurethane on the bottom side. My purist side would have preferred to build up nine coats of varnish, but maintaining the varnish cuts into the already too short sailing season in Michigan. The top side has four coats of gloss white exterior latex. The metal plates and spreader ends were cleaned and polished and the wiring replaced. The mast wiring connects to the spreader wiring with two pole weatherpack connectors. At the deck inside the mast, I'm using four pole versions. With a forty-plus year old boat and no maintenance log until I became owner, I replaced all of the wiring inside the mast. The standing rigging was carefully examined with dye penetrant and developer and no cracks were noted. The clevis pins and cotter pins have been replaced. And here it is mid-April, and they're calling for more snow... and I'm running out of boat projects that don't require dry and warmish. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Cal_Boats/photos/photostream/lightbox/1895295068?orderBy=mtime <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Cal_Boats/photos/photostream/lightbox/1895295068?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/1895295068> &sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/1895295068

Charlie, I hear you. The joy of boat ownership is there's never a shortage of things to do. If only the bank account was the same way. Smooth Sailing,Harold On Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 7:58:16 PM EDT, 'Charlie Husar' hu… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: Surely, Sir, there are more things to screw around with on the boat till the weather improves. I can make a list of possible work. :- ] Take Care Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 7:05 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Wooden spreaders I have finished refurbishing my spreaders - the spreaders have the same shape +/- 1/4" and the slot for the upper shroud is in a slightly different location +/- 1/8" depending on which spreader is used on which side. I'm unconcerned after all the fuss. One thing I do know, as I used a laser tiling square, is if you locate the square at the center of the mast step, with one leg hitting the center of the stem fitting, the other leg is exactly on the chainplate. (A laser tiling square shines two lasers at precisely a right angle) I used four coats of gloss polyurethane on the bottom side. My purist side would have preferred to build up nine coats of varnish, but maintaining the varnish cuts into the already too short sailing season in Michigan. The top side has four coats of gloss white exterior latex. The metal plates and spreader ends were cleaned and polished and the wiring replaced. The mast wiring connects to the spreader wiring with two pole weatherpack connectors. At the deck inside the mast, I'm using four pole versions. With a forty-plus year old boat and no maintenance log until I became owner, I replaced all of the wiring inside the mast. The standing rigging was carefully examined with dye penetrant and developer and no cracks were noted. The clevis pins and cotter pins have been replaced. And here it is mid-April, and they're calling for more snow... and I'm running out of boat projects that don't require dry and warmish. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Cal_Boats/photos/photostream/lightbox/1895295068?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/1895295068

On 4/17/2018 7:04 PM, ha… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > I have finished refurbishing my spreaders - the spreaders have the > same shape +/- 1/4" and the slot for the upper shroud is in a slightly > different location +/- 1/8" depending on which spreader is used on > which side. I'm unconcerned after all the fuss. One thing I do know, > as I used a laser tiling square, is if you locate the square at the > center of the mast step, with one leg hitting the center of the stem > fitting, the other leg is exactly on the chainplate. (A laser tiling > square shines two lasers at precisely a right angle) > > I used four coats of gloss polyurethane on the bottom side. My purist > side would have preferred to build up nine coats of varnish, but > maintaining the varnish cuts into the already too short sailing season > in Michigan. The top side has four coats of gloss white exterior latex. Talking about Michigan weather.... My other boat has wooden spreaders--and mast. This was the year for a full mast varnish, instead of just spot touch-ups. At first I was going to ignore the spreaders this year (hey, only the bottoms are varnished, protected from UV) but then ambition got the better of me and I scuffed them up, too, and applied two more coats. The white enamel on top still looks pretty good. The weather in Michigan has not cooperated. Last weekend there was a huge storm, continuous winds over 40 knots, gusts over 50, rain, snow, ice. At the marina the water levels were over the fixed docks and seawalls. But I was inside the unheated boat barn, putting the second coat of varnish on the mast. This is real spar varnish and it tolerates application in cool temps pretty well. Maybe better, in fact, than warmer weather, because it levels better. The wet weather kept the airborne debris down too. My Cal 20 spring maintenance includes hull polishing. I decided a couple weeks ago to get a head start. With the cover untied at the bow I started polishing. That went OK, but then the buffing part was a mess because temps dropped as sundown approached and we hit the dew point. So I decided to come back the next day or so and buff that section before polishing the next. That must have been the day before I took the snow tires off the truck and the weights out of the bed. In other words, it triggered a round of rain and snow and wind that has not abated in two weeks. We have more snow on the ground now than in Feb. At least I've managed to get the rudder varnished and painted in the shop. That part is ready to go. Winter is fine with me. I enjoy it. Just not in April, thank you. Chris Campbell