replacement shroud

there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready" Reggie Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>

Rigging only. Ask them about the upsizing. Two reasons. 1) bigger safety factors used these days. 2) the wire isn't as strong as it used to be. Allen On Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 3:43 PM r good my… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and > send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? > > > And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when > replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just > now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? > > > 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready" > > Reggie > > > Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook> > >

I completely re rigged my 76 2-27 and Steve Seal did a terrific job on it. All new, oversized and strong. Confidence like you’d have with a new boat. Seals Spars. > On Aug 19, 2018, at 4:42 PM, r good my… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? > > And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? > > 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready" > Reggie > > Sent from Outlook >

I second that! Steve Seal is a great guy with integrity and patience. I have known him for over 40 years and raced against him and crewed for him too. You won't go wrong. Mike Farrell Yellow Jack US 57313 On ‎Sunday‎, ‎August‎ ‎19‎, ‎2018‎ ‎04‎:‎13‎:‎02‎ ‎PM‎ ‎PDT, DT Gmail dn… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I completely re rigged my 76 2-27 and Steve Seal did a terrific job on it. All new, oversized and strong. Confidence like you’d have with a new boat. Seals Spars. On Aug 19, 2018, at 4:42 PM, r good my… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready" Reggie Sent from Outlook

This rigging upsizing arms race needs to stop! :-) I saw an Omega 34 with 7/16's shrouds the other day! Your rigging was specified by the same guy who designed your boat. If you can't trust that he new what he was doing with the rig, why would you trust any other portion of the boat? It was designed as a System to work with the structure and keel weight of your boat. Like any system, when you change one part of it (say, the wire size) you haven't necessarily improved the system. Do you know for a fact that the wire is the weakest point? If it was, you have just transferred the weakest point to some other part of the system. Maybe one that you'd rather not be the failure point (like a chainplate ripping out of the hull) If the wire wasn't the weak point, all you've succeeded in doing is lowering the performance of your boat in several ways and making another boat payment for your rigger. The weak point will still be right where it was. (tang, clevis, welded turnbuckle eye, etc) My rigging is oversize. When it was done, larger, thicker chainplates were fabricated, bulkhead tabbing was redone, new bases and thru-tubes were welded into the mast and all pins, toggles, turnbuckles and tangs were up-sized as well. If you're not going to do that, I'd stick with what the designer specified. If you're worried about wire strength being less these days, don't let them use Chinese wire. If you want to make an improvement and gain some strength, look into Dyform. Same diameter as stock is slightly stronger than 1X19 302 and significantly stronger than 1X19 316L and has lower drag so you'll go marginally faster upwind. It's also more corrosion resistant than either. Thicker draggy rigging will slow you down and make you heel more. Talk honestly with most any rigger (who is not in line to sell you something) and you'll get this same advice. Good Luck. Kris From: "r good my… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 3:43 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] replacement shroud there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready"Reggie Sent from Outlook

Makes sense to me. > On Aug 20, 2018, at 7:49 PM, Kris Jensen cr… [at] att.net [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > This rigging upsizing arms race needs to stop! :-) I saw an Omega 34 with 7/16's shrouds the other day! > > Your rigging was specified by the same guy who designed your boat. If you can't trust that he new what he was doing with the rig, why would you trust any other portion of the boat? > > It was designed as a System to work with the structure and keel weight of your boat. Like any system, when you change one part of it (say, the wire size) you haven't necessarily improved the system. Do you know for a fact that the wire is the weakest point? If it was, you have just transferred the weakest point to some other part of the system. Maybe one that you'd rather not be the failure point (like a chainplate ripping out of the hull) If the wire wasn't the weak point, all you've succeeded in doing is lowering the performance of your boat in several ways and making another boat payment for your rigger. The weak point will still be right where it was. (tang, clevis, welded turnbuckle eye, etc) > > My rigging is oversize. When it was done, larger, thicker chainplates were fabricated, bulkhead tabbing was redone, new bases and thru-tubes were welded into the mast and all pins, toggles, turnbuckles and tangs were up-sized as well. If you're not going to do that, I'd stick with what the designer specified. > > If you're worried about wire strength being less these days, don't let them use Chinese wire. If you want to make an improvement and gain some strength, look into Dyform. Same diameter as stock is slightly stronger than 1X19 302 and significantly stronger than 1X19 316L and has lower drag so you'll go marginally faster upwind. It's also more corrosion resistant than either. Thicker draggy rigging will slow you down and make you heel more. > > Talk honestly with most any rigger (who is not in line to sell you something) and you'll get this same advice. > > Good Luck. > > Kris > > From: "r good my… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 3:43 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] replacement shroud > > > there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? > > And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? > > 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready" > Reggie > > Sent from Outlook > > >

agree. what mate" says is don't make your boat into a banana. john b s/v 1983 catalina 27 On Monday, August 20, 2018 6:49 PM, "Kris Jensen cr… [at] att.net [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: This rigging upsizing arms race needs to stop! :-) I saw an Omega 34 with 7/16's shrouds the other day! Your rigging was specified by the same guy who designed your boat. If you can't trust that he new what he was doing with the rig, why would you trust any other portion of the boat? It was designed as a System to work with the structure and keel weight of your boat. Like any system, when you change one part of it (say, the wire size) you haven't necessarily improved the system. Do you know for a fact that the wire is the weakest point? If it was, you have just transferred the weakest point to some other part of the system. Maybe one that you'd rather not be the failure point (like a chainplate ripping out of the hull) If the wire wasn't the weak point, all you've succeeded in doing is lowering the performance of your boat in several ways and making another boat payment for your rigger. The weak point will still be right where it was. (tang, clevis, welded turnbuckle eye, etc) My rigging is oversize. When it was done, larger, thicker chainplates were fabricated, bulkhead tabbing was redone, new bases and thru-tubes were welded into the mast and all pins, toggles, turnbuckles and tangs were up-sized as well. If you're not going to do that, I'd stick with what the designer specified. If you're worried about wire strength being less these days, don't let them use Chinese wire. If you want to make an improvement and gain some strength, look into Dyform. Same diameter as stock is slightly stronger than 1X19 302 and significantly stronger than 1X19 316L and has lower drag so you'll go marginally faster upwind. It's also more corrosion resistant than either. Thicker draggy rigging will slow you down and make you heel more. Talk honestly with most any rigger (who is not in line to sell you something) and you'll get this same advice. Good Luck. Kris From: "r good my… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 3:43 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] replacement shroud there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready"Reggie Sent from Outlook

The Cal boats were built like brick sh*thouses. They did not know how strong a fiberglass boat needed to be, so they overbuilt. If you looked at more modern production boats, it would scare you. Only change I would do is to go to open barrel turnbuckles. The old closed ones would fill with water and result in anaerobic corrosion of the stainless. Take Care Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 8:54 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Kris Jensen <cr… [at] att.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] replacement shroud Makes sense to me. On Aug 20, 2018, at 7:49 PM, Kris Jensen cr… [at] att.net <mailto:cr… [at] att.net> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: This rigging upsizing arms race needs to stop! :-) I saw an Omega 34 with 7/16's shrouds the other day! Your rigging was specified by the same guy who designed your boat. If you can't trust that he new what he was doing with the rig, why would you trust any other portion of the boat? It was designed as a System to work with the structure and keel weight of your boat. Like any system, when you change one part of it (say, the wire size) you haven't necessarily improved the system. Do you know for a fact that the wire is the weakest point? If it was, you have just transferred the weakest point to some other part of the system. Maybe one that you'd rather not be the failure point (like a chainplate ripping out of the hull) If the wire wasn't the weak point, all you've succeeded in doing is lowering the performance of your boat in several ways and making another boat payment for your rigger. The weak point will still be right where it was. (tang, clevis, welded turnbuckle eye, etc) My rigging is oversize. When it was done, larger, thicker chainplates were fabricated, bulkhead tabbing was redone, new bases and thru-tubes were welded into the mast and all pins, toggles, turnbuckles and tangs were up-sized as well. If you're not going to do that, I'd stick with what the designer specified. If you're worried about wire strength being less these days, don't let them use Chinese wire. If you want to make an improvement and gain some strength, look into Dyform. Same diameter as stock is slightly stronger than 1X19 302 and significantly stronger than 1X19 316L and has lower drag so you'll go marginally faster upwind. It's also more corrosion resistant than either. Thicker draggy rigging will slow you down and make you heel more. Talk honestly with most any rigger (who is not in line to sell you something) and you'll get this same advice. Good Luck. Kris _____ From: "r good my… [at] hotmail.com <mailto:my… [at] hotmail.com> [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > To: "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> " <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 3:43 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] replacement shroud there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready" Reggie Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook>

Just to clarify my initial comment. I was answering the question, why do people upsize. I was not making a recommendation. I personally upsized when I got my new mast and things like safety factors were part of that because the mast designer insisted on a more modern safety factor. But I wanted to upsize because I felt the rig was undersized being an LA boat sailing in SF. I got my rigging from the mast builder, Buzz Ballenger. I have done business with Rigging Only and I would not hesitate to get rigging from them. I had them do my lifelines and it was a most pleasant experience. But it isn't rocket science and probably anyone can do it if they have the right equipment. Allen On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 6:10 PM, Mail jh… [at] yahoo.com [Cal_Boats] < Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > agree. what mate" says is don't make your boat into a banana. > > john b s/v 1983 catalina 27 > > > On Monday, August 20, 2018 6:49 PM, "Kris Jensen cr… [at] att.net > [Cal_Boats]" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > This rigging upsizing arms race needs to stop! :-) I saw an Omega 34 > with 7/16's shrouds the other day! > > Your rigging was specified by the same guy who designed your boat. If you > can't trust that he new what he was doing with the rig, why would you trust > any other portion of the boat? > > It was designed as a System to work with the structure and keel weight of > your boat. Like any system, when you change one part of it (say, the wire > size) you haven't necessarily improved the system. Do you know for a fact > that the wire is the weakest point? If it was, you have just transferred > the weakest point to some other part of the system. Maybe one that you'd > rather not be the failure point (like a chainplate ripping out of the > hull) If the wire wasn't the weak point, all you've succeeded in doing is > lowering the performance of your boat in several ways and making another > boat payment for your rigger. The weak point will still be right where it > was. (tang, clevis, welded turnbuckle eye, etc) > > My rigging is oversize. When it was done, larger, thicker chainplates > were fabricated, bulkhead tabbing was redone, new bases and thru-tubes were > welded into the mast and all pins, toggles, turnbuckles and tangs were > up-sized as well. If you're not going to do that, I'd stick with what the > designer specified. > > If you're worried about wire strength being less these days, don't let > them use Chinese wire. If you want to make an improvement and gain some > strength, look into Dyform. Same diameter as stock is slightly stronger > than 1X19 302 and significantly stronger than 1X19 316L and has lower drag > so you'll go marginally faster upwind. It's also more corrosion resistant > than either. Thicker draggy rigging will slow you down and make you heel > more. > > Talk honestly with most any rigger (who is not in line to sell you > something) and you'll get this same advice. > > Good Luck. > > Kris > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "r good my… [at] hotmail.com [Cal_Boats]" < > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *To:* "Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, August 19, 2018 3:43 PM > *Subject:* [Cal_Boats] replacement shroud > > > there are no rigging shops anywhere near here so if I remove a shroud and > send it off to be duplicated, where should I send it? > > And, I've heard it suggested that the shrouds should be up-sized when > replaced. I suspect these are original 45 year old shrouds and are just > now showing signs of failing. Why upsize? > > 1974 Cal 27 T/2 "Knot Ready" > Reggie > > Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook> > > > > > >