Propane locker

I am looking to add a propane locker to my 1979 Cal 39. My plan is to install a locker underneath the stern cockpit seat, on the port side. This would require cutting a 10.5 inch hole (!) in the seat and installing a Bomar 10 inch deck plate as the means of access. I would install a home-built propane locker (marine plywood covered inside and out with fiberglass), bolted to the front of the stern seat and sealed with 5200 to the underside of the seat along the top of the locker to make it air tight and to provide additional support. I would vent the locker through the stern. Does anyone have experience installing a propane locker elsewhere on the Cal 39? Any advice/warnings re: installing a locker - and drilling a massive hole - under the stern seat? I much appreciate the helpful feedback. Rick Stuntz Hotspur

Rick, We installed a locker inside the lazarette (ours is on the starboard side), facing forward against the bulkhead separating the engine compartment from the lazarette. I ran a vent line aft to the stern and there is a watertight door for access. It isn't technically USCG approved, but it is safe. The size of the locker was determined by the size of the tanks I was going to buy (it fits 2 ten pound tanks) as well as the access hatch. I'll try to attach the only 2 photos I have of the work. Greg On Tuesday, September 3, 2019, 07:29:28 AM PDT, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> wrote: I am looking to add a propane locker to my 1979 Cal 39. My plan is to install a locker underneath the stern cockpit seat, on the port side. This would require cutting a 10.5 inch hole (!) in the seat and installing a Bomar 10 inch deck plate as the means of access. I would install a home-built propane locker (marine plywood covered inside and out with fiberglass), bolted to the front of the stern seat and sealed with 5200 to the underside of the seat along the top of the locker to make it air tight and to provide additional support. I would vent the locker through the stern. Does anyone have experience installing a propane locker elsewhere on the Cal 39? Any advice/warnings re: installing a locker – and drilling a massive hole – under the stern seat? I much appreciate the helpful feedback. Rick Stuntz Hotspur

Probably cost a pretty penny but I'd try to make it (or have it made) the same as the one on the starboard side. By the way, on a semi related note, I once had a steering cable break and I didn't have my emergency tiller on board but was able to lift the propane locker out and stand on the steering quadrant and steer (sort of) with my feet. Paul WestAdventure Kwest'80 Cal 39 MK III From: 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> To: Cal_Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2019 10:29 am Subject: [Cal_Boats] Propane locker I am looking to add a propane locker to my 1979 Cal 39. My plan is to install a locker underneath the stern cockpit seat, on the port side. This would require cutting a 10.5 inch hole (!) in the seat and installing a Bomar 10 inch deck plate as the means of access. I would install a home-built propane locker (marine plywood covered inside and out with fiberglass), bolted to the front of the stern seat and sealed with 5200 to the underside of the seat along the top of the locker to make it air tight and to provide additional support. I would vent the locker through the stern. Does anyone have experience installing a propane locker elsewhere on the Cal 39? Any advice/warnings re: installing a locker – and drilling a massive hole – under the stern seat? I much appreciate the helpful feedback. Rick StuntzHotspur -- { padding:0 10px;} hr { } { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} { margin-bottom:10px;} .yiv2926814130ad { } .yiv2926814130ad p { } .yiv2926814130ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} { } { font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .yiv2926814130ad { margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} { } { background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} span { font-weight:700;} span:first-child { text-transform:uppercase;} span a { color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} span span { color:#ff7900;} span .yiv2926814130underline { text-decoration:underline;} .yiv2926814130attach { clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .yiv2926814130attach div a { text-decoration:none;} .yiv2926814130attach img { padding-right:5px;} .yiv2926814130attach label { display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .yiv2926814130attach label a { text-decoration:none;} blockquote { } .yiv2926814130bold { font-weight:700;} .yiv2926814130bold a { text-decoration:none;} dd.yiv2926814130last p a { font-weight:700;} dd.yiv2926814130last p span { margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} dd.yiv2926814130last p span.yiv2926814130yshortcuts { margin-right:0;} div.yiv2926814130attach-table div div a { text-decoration:none;} div.yiv2926814130attach-table { } div.yiv2926814130file-title a, div.yiv2926814130file-title a:active, div.yiv2926814130file-title a:hover, div.yiv2926814130file-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} div.yiv2926814130photo-title a, div.yiv2926814130photo-title a:active, div.yiv2926814130photo-title a:hover, div.yiv2926814130photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} div p a span.yiv2926814130yshortcuts { font-weight:normal;} .yiv2926814130green { color:#628c2a;} .yiv2926814130MsoNormal { } o { } div { float:left;width:72px;} div div { min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} div label { color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} { } { } .yiv2926814130replbq { } div a:first-child { margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} { } table { font:100%;} select, input, textarea { font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} pre, code { font:115% monospace;} * { } { padding-bottom:10px;} p a { } p span { color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} { color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} li a { text-decoration:none;} li { list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} ul { } { } p { } tt { } ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important; }

Rick, I have one of these (surprised I found a pic on line) installed by the PO. Image result for propane locker boat It is rigged in the port lazarette with a cage and cables to winch up pretty much out of the way (with a boat trailer winch) under the structure that hold the portside sheet winches. The drain hose is led through a through-hull below the box well above the water line. the solenoid is in the box which has 2 20 lb LP tanks. Big problem with this setup is that the container must be dropped to close or open the valves on the LP tanks. So it is impossible to close the valves as one should do when leaving the boat. Any leaks would drain overboard however. I have seen cal39 installations like the unit below installed in the port-aft cockpit seat as you describe. This seems like a good option. I found the picture -- a used one at a chandlery in Sausalito--so they may be, at least, available used. In my case the autopilot ram would interfere with the port-aft location and would need to be relocated. Image result for propane locker boat Best of luck, Duane -- Duane Knize S/V Marlyn 1978 Cal 2-39 #18 berthed: Emeryville, CA kn… [at] san.rr.com On 9/3/2019 7:24 AM, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > I am looking to add a propane locker to my 1979 Cal 39. My plan is to > install a locker underneath the stern cockpit seat, on the port side. > This would require cutting a 10.5 inch hole (!) in the seat and > installing a Bomar 10 inch deck plate as the means of access. I would > install a home-built propane locker (marine plywood covered inside and > out with fiberglass), bolted to the front of the stern seat and sealed > with 5200 to the underside of the seat along the top of the locker to > make it air tight and to provide additional support. I would vent the > locker through the stern. > > Does anyone have experience installing a propane locker elsewhere on > the Cal 39? Any advice/warnings re: installing a locker – and drilling > a massive hole – under the stern seat? I much appreciate the helpful > feedback. > > Rick Stuntz > > /Hotspur/ > >

I have installed a propane locker and created a helm seat at the same time on my Cal 31. Worked out very well. Be sure and follow the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) standards as to sealing, drain size and location, etc. I have an 12 yr old copy of the standard but it is not current. Let me know if you want a copy or some pictures. You can also buy pre-fab boxes that may or may not fit your application. I used starboard to build my box/seat base. Greg, SV Evania Cal 31

Dang, I always thought those things were porta-potties. Could explain why I got thrown off a few boats. Cheers Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 2:30 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Rick Stuntz <ri… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Propane locker Rick, I have one of these (surprised I found a pic on line) installed by the PO. <https://dukeschandlery.com/products/Jun2017/Sausalito-Used-Boat-Parts-75-14 97472828.jpg> It is rigged in the port lazarette with a cage and cables to winch up pretty much out of the way (with a boat trailer winch) under the structure that hold the portside sheet winches. The drain hose is led through a through-hull below the box well above the water line. the solenoid is in the box which has 2 20 lb LP tanks. Big problem with this setup is that the container must be dropped to close or open the valves on the LP tanks. So it is impossible to close the valves as one should do when leaving the boat. Any leaks would drain overboard however. I have seen cal39 installations like the unit below installed in the port-aft cockpit seat as you describe. This seems like a good option. I found the picture -- a used one at a chandlery in Sausalito--so they may be, at least, available used. In my case the autopilot ram would interfere with the port-aft location and would need to be relocated. <https://dukeschandlery.com/products/Dec2017/Sausalito-Used-Boat-Parts-18-15 13709742.jpg> Best of luck, Duane -- Duane Knize S/V Marlyn 1978 Cal 2-39 #18 berthed: Emeryville, CA kn… [at] san.rr.com <mailto:kn… [at] san.rr.com> On 9/3/2019 7:24 AM, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ri… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] wrote: I am looking to add a propane locker to my 1979 Cal 39. My plan is to install a locker underneath the stern cockpit seat, on the port side. This would require cutting a 10.5 inch hole (!) in the seat and installing a Bomar 10 inch deck plate as the means of access. I would install a home-built propane locker (marine plywood covered inside and out with fiberglass), bolted to the front of the stern seat and sealed with 5200 to the underside of the seat along the top of the locker to make it air tight and to provide additional support. I would vent the locker through the stern. Does anyone have experience installing a propane locker elsewhere on the Cal 39? Any advice/warnings re: installing a locker - and drilling a massive hole - under the stern seat? I much appreciate the helpful feedback. Rick Stuntz Hotspur

I'm going to comment on this option (the one shown below). The big thing in its favor is that it hangs from the seat surface without other apparent contact points. Maybe that's important because our boats aren't really rigid structures. They move in seas and with the tension/compression of the rigging when under sail. Numerous accounts of life on big steel Great Lakes freighters have pointed out that there's a lot of twist visible in big seas. I suspect our little boats have the same kind of motion in their structures. The boats as-built have various bulkheads and stringers and such to provide stiffness where needed, but there's still the old adage that rigid structures break and flexible structures survive. This is a long-winded way of saying that adding your own locker, anchored to various panels, might (1) induce rigidity where it isn't wanted, and (2) may need to be very securely attached to each adjacent panel so the bonds don't break when the panels move independently. I'm not an engineer although I was accused of being one once when I cross-examined one in a matter involving a nuclear power plant. I have learned from experience that we humans sometimes think we can make things secure when we don't consider all the forces involved. And keeping propane out of the boat is nearly as important as keeping water out. Chris Campbell On 9/3/2019 2:29 PM, Duane Knize-boat kn… [at] san.rr.com [Cal_Boats] wrote: > > > > I have seen cal39 installations like the unit below installed in the > port-aft cockpit seat as you describe. This seems like a good option. > I found the picture -- a used one at a chandlery in Sausalito--so they > may be, at least, available used. In my case the autopilot ram would > interfere with the port-aft location and would need to be relocated. > > > Image result for propane locker boat > >

Duane Thanks for the input and for the pictures. The second picture is very interesting. I have not seen a pre-made tank enclosure that would sit down in a hole and not require through-bolting and the like. I am going to try to learn more about that option. Thanks again. Rick From: Duane Knize-boat [mailto:kn… [at] san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 2:30 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Rick Stuntz <ri… [at] gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Propane locker Rick, I have one of these (surprised I found a pic on line) installed by the PO. <https://dukeschandlery.com/products/Jun2017/Sausalito-Used-Boat-Parts-75-14 97472828.jpg> It is rigged in the port lazarette with a cage and cables to winch up pretty much out of the way (with a boat trailer winch) under the structure that hold the portside sheet winches. The drain hose is led through a through-hull below the box well above the water line. the solenoid is in the box which has 2 20 lb LP tanks. Big problem with this setup is that the container must be dropped to close or open the valves on the LP tanks. So it is impossible to close the valves as one should do when leaving the boat. Any leaks would drain overboard however. I have seen cal39 installations like the unit below installed in the port-aft cockpit seat as you describe. This seems like a good option. I found the picture -- a used one at a chandlery in Sausalito--so they may be, at least, available used. In my case the autopilot ram would interfere with the port-aft location and would need to be relocated. <https://dukeschandlery.com/products/Dec2017/Sausalito-Used-Boat-Parts-18-15 13709742.jpg> Best of luck, Duane -- Duane Knize S/V Marlyn 1978 Cal 2-39 #18 berthed: Emeryville, CA kn… [at] san.rr.com <mailto:kn… [at] san.rr.com> On 9/3/2019 7:24 AM, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ri… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] wrote: I am looking to add a propane locker to my 1979 Cal 39. My plan is to install a locker underneath the stern cockpit seat, on the port side. This would require cutting a 10.5 inch hole (!) in the seat and installing a Bomar 10 inch deck plate as the means of access. I would install a home-built propane locker (marine plywood covered inside and out with fiberglass), bolted to the front of the stern seat and sealed with 5200 to the underside of the seat along the top of the locker to make it air tight and to provide additional support. I would vent the locker through the stern. Does anyone have experience installing a propane locker elsewhere on the Cal 39? Any advice/warnings re: installing a locker - and drilling a massive hole - under the stern seat? I much appreciate the helpful feedback. Rick Stuntz Hotspur

Chris I had not thought about the flexing issue before; your point is very well taken. I had planned to bolt the box to the front of the seat (from behind, of course), and that shouldn't be a problem with flexing. But 5200 on the top edge perhaps is not the right way to go. Maybe a sealant that is flexible would be better. I need to do some more research on that. And as per my previous email I am also interested in the drop-in compartment, which would be a lot easier in addition to perhaps being safer. Thanks very much for your comment. Rick From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 4:27 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com; Duane Knize-boat <kn… [at] san.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Propane locker I'm going to comment on this option (the one shown below). The big thing in its favor is that it hangs from the seat surface without other apparent contact points. Maybe that's important because our boats aren't really rigid structures. They move in seas and with the tension/compression of the rigging when under sail. Numerous accounts of life on big steel Great Lakes freighters have pointed out that there's a lot of twist visible in big seas. I suspect our little boats have the same kind of motion in their structures. The boats as-built have various bulkheads and stringers and such to provide stiffness where needed, but there's still the old adage that rigid structures break and flexible structures survive. This is a long-winded way of saying that adding your own locker, anchored to various panels, might (1) induce rigidity where it isn't wanted, and (2) may need to be very securely attached to each adjacent panel so the bonds don't break when the panels move independently. I'm not an engineer although I was accused of being one once when I cross-examined one in a matter involving a nuclear power plant. I have learned from experience that we humans sometimes think we can make things secure when we don't consider all the forces involved. And keeping propane out of the boat is nearly as important as keeping water out. Chris Campbell On 9/3/2019 2:29 PM, Duane Knize-boat kn… [at] san.rr.com <mailto:kn… [at] san.rr.com> [Cal_Boats] wrote: I have seen cal39 installations like the unit below installed in the port-aft cockpit seat as you describe. This seems like a good option. I found the picture -- a used one at a chandlery in Sausalito--so they may be, at least, available used. In my case the autopilot ram would interfere with the port-aft location and would need to be relocated. <https://dukeschandlery.com/products/Dec2017/Sausalito-Used-Boat-Parts-18-15 13709742.jpg>

Greg What a slick installation! I agree with your statement: not technically compliant but, more importantly, safe. And I really like the fact that the locker holds 2 tanks. If I use the space under the stern seat I can only fit a single 10 lb. tank. That looks like a Bomar hatch to gain access which, if I remember correctly, has a gasket making it air-tight. I am going to go down to the boat later today and think about how that would work on my boat. Thanks very much for the pics; they’re very helpful. Rick From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 10:45 AM To: 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Propane locker Rick, We installed a locker inside the lazarette (ours is on the starboard side), facing forward against the bulkhead separating the engine compartment from the lazarette. I ran a vent line aft to the stern and there is a watertight door for access. It isn't technically USCG approved, but it is safe. The size of the locker was determined by the size of the tanks I was going to buy (it fits 2 ten pound tanks) as well as the access hatch. I'll try to attach the only 2 photos I have of the work. Greg On Tuesday, September 3, 2019, 07:29:28 AM PDT, 'Rick Stuntz' ri… [at] gmail.com <mailto:ri… [at] gmail.com> [Cal_Boats] <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > wrote: I am looking to add a propane locker to my 1979 Cal 39. My plan is to install a locker underneath the stern cockpit seat, on the port side. This would require cutting a 10.5 inch hole (!) in the seat and installing a Bomar 10 inch deck plate as the means of access. I would install a home-built propane locker (marine plywood covered inside and out with fiberglass), bolted to the front of the stern seat and sealed with 5200 to the underside of the seat along the top of the locker to make it air tight and to provide additional support. I would vent the locker through the stern. Does anyone have experience installing a propane locker elsewhere on the Cal 39? Any advice/warnings re: installing a locker – and drilling a massive hole – under the stern seat? I much appreciate the helpful feedback. Rick Stuntz Hotspur